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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Florida incidents , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 15th February 2018, 02:30 PM   #201
dudalb
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Maybe I'm the bigot, but I'm fine calling the person a white supremacist who only casually attended the white supremacists meetings.
God,you know how stupid that sounds?
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:33 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Yet his victims seem to have been random and almost entirely white. I'm not denying that he associated with white supremacy but how are we to link his actions yesterday with that ideology?
Breivik's 77 victims were also almost entirely white too. White supremacists don't just hate non-white people. They really, really, really hate the vast majority of white people (race traitors) who are perfectly content allowing their white society to be polluted by the influx of others.
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:41 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
William Parcher is absolutely denying he was a white supremacist
No I am not.
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:51 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
"There's good people on both sides"

I agree with Bob. Sometimes you are what you do.
But his violent act is not overtly tied to white nationalism, so he may be what he says, I.e., a white supremacist, but that did not seem to inform his action.
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:58 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Life in prison. Maybe the death penalty because it's Florida, but I'm predicting life without parole. Then maybe suicide while in jail?

Look at the outcomes in this Wiki list of school shootings.

Interesting also to see that there are many countries included. Maybe it is not just in the US this mostly happens. But we do have more.

1 - UK
3 - Brazil
5 - Canada
6- Germany
18 - China
39 - US
There's an awful lot missing from the total for US school shootings. There have been 8 so far just this year.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:17 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I find that suspiciously like a white supremacist trying to milk some publicity for his group out of the shooting. Maybe the kid went to a couple 'training' events. Until the police tell us they found all sorts of literature from the group or for the cause, this aspect stands as coincidental at the moment.

Though this kind of thing doesn't surprise me:It's the idea Cruz was an active member of a supremacist group that I would like to see more evidence of.
Just to be clear: you're saying his white-supremacist-leaning social media postings and a leader of a local white supremacy organization confirming he was a member of the group and attended group events with other group members, do not constitute sufficient evidence that he was a member of the white supremacist group?
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:23 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Just to be clear: you're saying his white-supremacist-leaning social media postings and a leader of a local white supremacy organization confirming he was a member of the group and attended group events with other group members, do not constitute sufficient evidence that he was a member of the white supremacist group?
Correct. It makes sense. The leader could be trying to tie an independent white supremacist to his cause. It is the same way ISIS claims every Muslim attacker was one of theirs.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:25 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Just to be clear: you're saying his white-supremacist-leaning social media postings and a leader of a local white supremacy organization confirming he was a member of the group and attended group events with other group members, do not constitute sufficient evidence that he was a member of the white supremacist group?
I get the argument. I mean, every time there is a bombing, "ISIS" (or, formerly, Al Queda) takes credit, regardless of whether there was any connection with them.

I will admit, the moron from the ROF seems awfully giddy about taking credit. Maybe it's because he can, though.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:27 PM   #209
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Students knew this guy was going to shoot up the school, but they didn't say anything. Folks: Always, always report to the police. We should not be blaming the gun; we should be blaming the classmates who did nothing (and the shooter, who was a troubled young man, but had excellent taste in politicians).
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:30 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Students knew this guy was going to shoot up the school, but they didn't say anything. Folks: Always, always report to the police. We should not be blaming the gun; we should be blaming the classmates who did nothing (and the shooter, who was a troubled young man, but had excellent taste in politicians).
Dude, you are supposed to be satirical and not just parrot the President. It blows your schtick.

Of course, the guy WAS reported to the Feds months ago and they didn't do anything about him.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:40 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Dude, you are supposed to be satirical and not just parrot the President. It blows your schtick.

Of course, the guy WAS reported to the Feds months ago and they didn't do anything about him.
Well.the schtick got really old a long time ago.....
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:41 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Just to be clear: you're saying his white-supremacist-leaning social media postings and a leader of a local white supremacy organization confirming he was a member of the group and attended group events with other group members, do not constitute sufficient evidence that he was a member of the white supremacist group?
People just go to white supremeists meeting for the coffee and cookies....
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:46 PM   #213
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I will try to state this clearly:

The evidence that Cruz was a member of a white supremists group seems very strong;
what is not very strong ..at the moment....is evidence that whise supremists ideology was the main motive behind the shootings.
White Supremacy is sick;Cruz was very sick, but he might have had more then one form of sickiness.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:48 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
There's an awful lot missing from the total for US school shootings. There have been 8 so far just this year.
Seems in my haste I lacked proper precision in my post.

This is the Wiki title: List of school massacres by death toll

My apologies for the misstatements, they were not intended. I wouldn't even have linked to it in this thread had the question not been asked what next. I had been perusing multiple sites and recalled that one listed outcomes: mostly killed at the scene, killed themselves or life in prison.

Then it caught my eye how many country flags were shown, thus my added point.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:53 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Just to be clear: you're saying his white-supremacist-leaning social media postings and a leader of a local white supremacy organization confirming he was a member of the group and attended group events with other group members, do not constitute sufficient evidence that he was a member of the white supremacist group?
Nope, you are conflating all the information as if we got it all at once. The white supremacy info trickled out. The first I saw was this guy coming forward to say Cruz was one of them but he'd never met Cruz.

You are repeating my first conclusion which I ended with the caveat, more info might come out.

At the moment, I still think the group is looking for publicity. I still don't know at this point just how involved with the group it will turn out Cruz had.

Clearly he echoed sentiments along that line.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:53 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I will try to state this clearly:

The evidence that Cruz was a member of a white supremists group seems very strong;
what is not very strong ..at the moment....is evidence that whise supremists ideology was the main motive behind the shootings.
White Supremacy is sick;Cruz was very sick, but he might have had more then one form of sickiness.
Then there is the question how much association with group that advocates violence as a solution leads to favoring violent solutions to other problems.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:54 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Students knew this guy was going to shoot up the school, but they didn't say anything.
Which students? The ones who stayed home from school yesterday?

Anyway, I read that he was expelled more than a year ago. There were probably many students at that school who just thought he was gone after the expulsion.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:54 PM   #218
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The Republic of Florida ...the White Supremist group that Cruz apparently belonged to..claims as one it's goals to organize an all white republic somewhere in Florida.
I say give them their request. Give them a few acres in the remotest part of the Everglades or Okfanokee swamp ,or mayve some small island in the Florida keys not close to the causeway, and let them move their,and not bother the rest of Florida with their company...
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:56 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Of course, the guy WAS reported to the Feds months ago and they didn't do anything about him.
The failing FBI/Deep State. We're gonna take care of them.
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Old 15th February 2018, 03:58 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Students knew this guy was going to shoot up the school, but they didn't say anything. Folks: Always, always report to the police. We should not be blaming the gun; we should be blaming the classmates who did nothing (and the shooter, who was a troubled young man, but had excellent taste in politicians).
Your satire fails with misinformation. The kid was reported by students, Cruz was expelled. There are reports that police and or FBI had crossed this guy's path but didn't act or weren't able to or did but didn't do enough.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:04 PM   #221
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Paul Ryan wants to wait until facts are collected.

Does he have no clue when he repeats that knee-jerk NRA talking point that those facts have already been collected in all the past mass shootings?
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:09 PM   #222
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I wonder if he had to explain his last name to the white supremacists. Cruz. Hey, isn't that a Mexican or Latino name? Yeah man, but here's the story behind it....
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:11 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Your satire fails with misinformation. The kid was reported by students, Cruz was expelled. There are reports that police and or FBI had crossed this guy's path but didn't act or weren't able to or did but didn't do enough.
False. FBI was distracted. They should have been investigating this kid instead of the President. No collusion.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:12 PM   #224
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NOTHING is more sacred than the lives of children. Except gun rights.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:15 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I wonder if he had to explain his last name to the white supremacists. Cruz. Hey, isn't that a Mexican or Latino name? Yeah man, but here's the story behind it....
They'd have been very happy to vote for a guy with that name who was even born in Canada.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:17 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I wonder if he had to explain his last name to the white supremacists. Cruz. Hey, isn't that a Mexican or Latino name? Yeah man, but here's the story behind it....
Castilian actually.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:23 PM   #227
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Accused South Florida school shooter confessed to rampage that killed 17 people, police say

Originally Posted by Washington Post
The 19-year-old accused of gunning down 17 people at his former high school admitted he carried out the shooting rampage, authorities said in court papers filed Thursday.

Police wrote that Nikolas Cruz, who has been charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder, told officers that he walked into Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Wednesday wielding an AR-15 rifle and began shooting students in the hallways and outside on the school’s grounds.

Once students began to flee the carnage, Cruz dropped his rifle and vest packed with additional ammunition “so he could blend into the crowd,” an officer wrote in a probable-cause affidavit. Cruz had taken an Uber to the school, officials wrote, so he fled on foot along with those running from the scene. An officer found him not long afterward walking on a residential street....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...r-premeditated
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:33 PM   #228
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What if the USA enacted by legislation similar restrictive Gun Laws that Canada has? ... Surely our socialist state would have stopped such a crime???

Frankly? ... No in this case and in most most cases it would make no difference ...

He HAD a background check ... In Canada he would have had to d thats AND, pass a mandatory gun handling, and safety test (most people also take the course but it's not required I didn't) ...

From what I've read he knows how to operate a firearm and even had it stored (locked up with a key lock) to Canadian standards, so he would've passed that test even without even taking the course.

All that effort would have delayed his FIRST long gun purchase a week, maybe two, at most ... after that in Canada you can buy as many long guns as you want.

The SPECIFIC firearm he used (an AR-15 variant) requires a restricted permit here ... but he may have instead, simply chosen a Beretta Cx4 Storm (for one quick example) or anyone one of a dozen other firearms that are NOT legally restricted as AR-15 variants here in Canada (hey have the same "firepower" same cartridge, some even have the same magazines, and some are more accurate than Ar-15 Variants)

So why does Canada have less "school type mass shootings" ,.. I have theory, could it be universal health care? ... With access to meds and support for crazy people? ... All school shooters are mentally unstable and deranged ... as evidence by the crimes that commit ...

Does taking care of these crazies reduce mass shootings ... is this why Canada and European nations have less shootings?

I'm not trying to say that I KNOW ... this ... but just offering up it for debate ... perhaps there's a connection?
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:37 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Dude, you are supposed to be satirical and not just parrot the President. It blows your schtick.

Of course, the guy WAS reported to the Feds months ago and they didn't do anything about him.
Cain for President. If it has to be a farce, it may as well be deliberate.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:46 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Castilian actually.
A number of messed up Hispanics trying to join White Supremist Groups use the "Pure Castillian Blood" routine.

Next he will be be claiming he is a direct descendent of El Cid.....
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Last edited by dudalb; 15th February 2018 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:47 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Correct. It makes sense. The leader could be trying to tie an independent white supremacist to his cause. It is the same way ISIS claims every Muslim attacker was one of theirs.
Ah yes of course, that makes sense - except for the fact that I can't come up with an example of another white supremacist group in America doing that in the aftermath of any other school/mass shooting, which suggests it would be relatively unprecedented for it to suddenly start happening now.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:48 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
What if the USA enacted by legislation similar restrictive Gun Laws that Canada has? ... Surely our socialist state would have stopped such a crime???

Frankly? ... No in this case and in most most cases it would make no difference ...

He HAD a background check ... In Canada he would have had to d thats AND, pass a mandatory gun handling, and safety test (most people also take the course but it's not required I didn't) ...

From what I've read he knows how to operate a firearm and even had it stored (locked up with a key lock) to Canadian standards, so he would've passed that test even without even taking the course.

All that effort would have delayed his FIRST long gun purchase a week, maybe two, at most ... after that in Canada you can buy as many long guns as you want.

The SPECIFIC firearm he used (an AR-15 variant) requires a restricted permit here ... but he may have instead, simply chosen a Beretta Cx4 Storm (for one quick example) or anyone one of a dozen other firearms that are NOT legally restricted as AR-15 variants here in Canada (hey have the same "firepower" same cartridge, some even have the same magazines, and some are more accurate than Ar-15 Variants)

So why does Canada have less "school type mass shootings" ,.. I have theory, could it be universal health care? ... With access to meds and support for crazy people? ... All school shooters are mentally unstable and deranged ... as evidence by the crimes that commit ...

Does taking care of these crazies reduce mass shootings ... is this why Canada and European nations have less shootings?

I'm not trying to say that I KNOW ... this ... but just offering up it for debate ... perhaps there's a connection?
News said he had received treatment at one point but stopped. Not clear if lack of availability/cost was an issue or if he just didn't want treatment. News also says loving adoptive parents but both died on him so that might have triggered some stuff. Guess we'll be hearing a lot more details in the coming days. Apparently this guy was just reeking of warning signs, though.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:48 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A number of messed up Hispanics trying to join White Supremist Groups use the "Pure Castillian Blood" routine.
Can you explain "Pure Castilian Blood" ... I googled it but just got a lot of washing soap ads.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:53 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
What if the USA enacted by legislation similar restrictive Gun Laws that Canada has? ... Surely our socialist state would have stopped such a crime???

Frankly? ... No in this case and in most most cases it would make no difference ...

He HAD a background check ... In Canada he would have had to d thats AND, pass a mandatory gun handling, and safety test (most people also take the course but it's not required I didn't) ...

From what I've read he knows how to operate a firearm and even had it stored (locked up with a key lock) to Canadian standards, so he would've passed that test even without even taking the course.

All that effort would have delayed his FIRST long gun purchase a week, maybe two, at most ... after that in Canada you can buy as many long guns as you want.

The SPECIFIC firearm he used (an AR-15 variant) requires a restricted permit here ... but he may have instead, simply chosen a Beretta Cx4 Storm (for one quick example) or anyone one of a dozen other firearms that are NOT legally restricted as AR-15 variants here in Canada (hey have the same "firepower" same cartridge, some even have the same magazines, and some are more accurate than Ar-15 Variants)

So why does Canada have less "school type mass shootings" ,.. I have theory, could it be universal health care? ... With access to meds and support for crazy people? ... All school shooters are mentally unstable and deranged ... as evidence by the crimes that commit ...

Does taking care of these crazies reduce mass shootings ... is this why Canada and European nations have less shootings?

I'm not trying to say that I KNOW ... this ... but just offering up it for debate ... perhaps there's a connection?
Your assumption that Cruz (and others) are crazy by default because of the crimes they commit is wrong and no psychiatrist would make diagnoses like this.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:54 PM   #235
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I love that they are showing that picture of him in the MAGA hat over and over again.

I guess The_Donald and other places were wrong, wrong, wrong that he would turn out to be a Hillary voting illegal.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:55 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
No, American police are much more dangerous than police in civilized countries but are much less dangerous than armed Americans in general.
"Civilized"

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Old 15th February 2018, 04:57 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Your assumption that Cruz (and others) are crazy by default because of the crimes they commit is wrong and no psychiatrist would make diagnoses like this.
Yes my opinion is NO sane person kills 17 defenceless person ...

Now if you mean "legally insane" as far as answering in court ... NO I agree with you there ... it's all about levels of insanity.
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Old 15th February 2018, 04:57 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How does the current situation limit their power?
Their power is only limited relative to how it would be if guns were restricted. Restricting guns gives them more legal latitude to further harass and intimidate the public.
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Old 15th February 2018, 05:00 PM   #239
lionking
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
Yes my opinion is NO sane person kills 17 defenceless person ...

Now if you mean "legally insane" as far as answering in court ... NO I agree with you there ... it's all about levels of insanity.
I don't even agree with your first point. There are many instances of fully sane, rational people killing multiple times. You can't automatically declare them insane if that word is to retain its intended meaning.
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Old 15th February 2018, 05:01 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I love that they are showing that picture of him in the MAGA hat over and over again.

I guess The_Donald and other places were wrong, wrong, wrong that he would turn out to be a Hillary voting illegal.
So you're saying that this individual - a suspected MS-13 member who came to this country through chain migration according to unnamed sources1 - wore a MAGA hat in order to falsely smear Trump supporters? This goes deeper that I might have expected.

1. Some dude on reddit.
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