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Old 16th February 2018, 02:56 PM   #1
Ron Swanson
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Availability of firearms in the UK

Mod Info The first 50 or so posts were split from the School Shooting Florida thread.
Posted By:Agatha


Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
... However, I can't deny that I am pleased that I don't have to worry that this person might their hands on a firearm.
All it takes to get a firearm in the U.K. is money ... often street level ilegal guns are cheaper as well

Last edited by Agatha; 17th February 2018 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:41 PM   #2
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All it takes to get a firearm in the U.K. is money ... often street level ilegal guns are cheaper as well
No, it requires money and knowing someone with a gun they are willing to sell. It's a significantly greater obstacle to this person than, say walking to their nearest ASDA (2 miles approx) and buying one in the sporting goods department would be.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:43 PM   #3
Ron Swanson
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
No, it requires money and knowing someone with a gun they are willing to sell. It's a significantly greater obstacle to this person than, say walking to their nearest ASDA (2 miles approx) and buying one in the sporting goods department would be.
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
Rubbish.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:52 PM   #5
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Yeah right.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:53 PM   #6
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
You don't know this person. I do. Even if it were that easy, which I disagree with, that would still be a significant obstacle.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Rubbish.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...un-London.html

Do a google new search for "Buying an Illegal Gun in the UK"

All sorts of guns, FLOOD in from adjoining countries, non-lethal guns from Romania and Russia are converted to fire normal lethal cartridges, deactivate guns are converted to operational.

Or just enjoy you mythical ideas that no guns are available in your area ... maybe go on a unicorn ride while you're dreaming.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
You don't know this person. I do. Even if it were that easy, which I disagree with, that would still be a significant obstacle.
Being crazy might help or indeed also hinder ... but he could easily make a friend for 20 pounds and be in business in 24 hours.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
Let me put this a different way:
All you need to do is alert a lot of people that you wish to buy a gun.

Each of these people may chose to alert the police. The police then has an actual crime to investigate rather than... nothing at all.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Let me put this a different way:
All you need to do is alert a lot of people that you wish to buy a gun.

Each of these people may chose to alert the police. The police then has an actual crime to investigate rather than... nothing at all.
LOL .. remind me NOT to send you to buy guns ... you do NOT talk to people who might phone the coppers ........ and you do NOT meet with a guy who HAS a gun ... he gets it after you give him a downpayment
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...un-London.html

Do a google new search for "Buying an Illegal Gun in the UK"

All sorts of guns, FLOOD in from adjoining countries, non-lethal guns from Romania and Russia are converted to fire normal lethal cartridges, deactivate guns are converted to operational.

Or just enjoy you mythical ideas that no guns are available in your area ... maybe go on a unicorn ride while you're dreaming.
That's called moving the goal posts. I was replying to your first post.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
Being crazy might help or indeed also hinder ... but he could easily make a friend for 20 pounds and be in business in 24 hours.
Okay fine you know more about this member of my family that I haven't named than I do. Well done you win the internet.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's called moving the goal posts. I was replying to your first post.
Lost me sorry ...

Feel free to explain perhaps i missed the point .. was;t intentionally being deceptive in the my response .
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
You keep posting this but offer no support.

It's very hard to get a gun in the UK.
Those who want one or supply one resort to re-activating display weapons. If it was easy they wouldn't need to do it.
there are relatively few weapons in circulation that get sold, rented and passed around.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
LOL .. remind me NOT to send you to buy guns ... you do NOT talk to people who might phone the coppers ........ and you do NOT meet with a guy who HAS a gun ... he gets it after you give him a downpayment
You really believe that almost all of us UK folk know someone we know well enough that we can get a gun from, which would mean of course that we know they can get hold of an illegal gun. If I thought anyone I knew could get hold of an illegal gun I would have already informed the police of this fact.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You keep posting this but offer no support.

It's very hard to get a gun in the UK.
Those who want one or supply one resort to re-activating display weapons. If it was easy they wouldn't need to do it.
there are relatively few weapons in circulation that get sold, rented and passed around.
I posted anew article .. what more shall I do? ... Illegal guns are rampant in the UK .. everyone who wants one and has the cash gets one ... it's simple that.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
I posted anew article .. what more shall I do? ... Illegal guns are rampant in the UK .. everyone who wants one and has the cash gets one ... it's simple that.
No it isn't.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You really believe that almost all of us UK folk know someone we know well enough that we can get a gun from, which would mean of course that we know they can get hold of an illegal gun. If I thought anyone I knew could get hold of an illegal gun I would have already informed the police of this fact.
Sorry mate you live in a dream world ... your world experience is radically limited
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No it isn't.
Yes it is
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:08 PM   #20
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Daily Mail?? 'Uzis favoured by 'Yardie Gangsters'?

Give me a break.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
LOL .. remind me NOT to send you to buy guns ... you do NOT talk to people who might phone the coppers ........ and you do NOT meet with a guy who HAS a gun ... he gets it after you give him a downpayment
Of course, you do not talk to people who might phone the coppers. I should have thought of that but - since I am not telepathic myself - I never think of these obvious solutions.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
I posted anew article .. what more shall I do? ... Illegal guns are rampant in the UK .. everyone who wants one and has the cash gets one ... it's simple that.
New article?

John Stevens was Met Commissioner until 2005. It's 2018 now I think.

So that article is possibly 18 years old, not 'newer' than 13.

And we haven't descended into chaos and anarchy yet.

Not even a little school shooting.
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Old 16th February 2018, 06:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
New article?

John Stevens was Met Commissioner until 2005. It's 2018 now I think.

So that article is possibly 18 years old, not 'newer' than 13.

And we haven't descended into chaos and anarchy yet.

Not even a little school shooting.
The only reasonable conclusion is that our criminals and would be terrorists just don't want guns...
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Old 16th February 2018, 06:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You keep posting this but offer no support.

It's very hard to get a gun in the UK.
Those who want one or supply one resort to re-activating display weapons. If it was easy they wouldn't need to do it.
there are relatively few weapons in circulation that get sold, rented and passed around.
AIUI a significant percentage of illegal handguns owned by crims in the UK are smuggled in from Europe, especially from former Eastern Bloc countries like Romania, Slovenia and the Czech Republic). They can be bought online through anonymous shopping sites on the dark web, and sent to the UK using standard post or courier services, often disassembled and distributed over multiple packages to avoid detection and then reassembled later.

I wouldn't call this method "easy"
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.
er no.

If I might be so bold as to (mis)quote some more Jim Jeffries in this thread. It's not like you just go down to the docks and shout "GUNS!" "CAN ANYONE SELL ME SOME GUNS?!"

You can go to any pub in the country and ask the right questions and get hooked up with most drugs in a short amount of time (as in the big 4, weed, coke, ecstasy, speed) that's pretty easy. Harder stuff like heroin or more niche stuff will take a while and might not be available depending on exactly where you are in the country.

Guns are a whole different thing. If you have the right kind of face and know the right kind of people, then yeah pretty straightforward, but for the average bloke on the street, even if you did ask the right people they would tell to you **** off.
You need to know the right people to buy from AND you need to gain their trust. Which takes time and effort (and socialising with people that sell black market guns)
If you're a really determined person then yeah, it's certainly possible. It remains a huge barrier to most people though, and most people are law abiding citizens for the most part, especially when it comes to stuff like illegal weapons.

The reason that the US has so many mass shootings and the UK doesn't, in my opinion, is that the US has easy access to weapons. You can go into any Walmart in the US and buy guns and ammunition off the shelf, assuming you have the right paperwork, which by all accounts is easy to get.

Tesco or Sainsburys don't have gun counters in the UK and you sure as hell can't buy an AR-15 or a handgun anywhere. I kind of like things that way.
(and yes there are a bunch of guns *very* similar to an AR-15 or a "lengthened" handgun that are legal to purchase in the UK, but they are hard to get hold of, the paperwork is a serious PITA and they are eye wateringly expensive)

Lets take a quick look at the total number of mass shootings since Dunblane (1996) in the UK...

1. Cumbria Shootings: 2nd June 2010 12 dead 11 injured.

and er that's it.
a further 37 people were killed in mass casualty, terrorist knife/bomb/vehicle attacks since then.

Here's a question for you. If guns were as easy to get hold of as you claim they are, then why aren't more UK terror attacks mass shootings?
Why do the terrorists here resort to knife/vehicle/bomb attacks?

Why are there no more Dunblanes, or Sandy Hooks, or Columbines in the UK? One of the major arguments against gun control that advocates have in the US is that gun laws don't stop criminals from getting hold of guns.

Your argument is that in the UK guns are simple to get hold of. So where is the gun violence here? We have people willing to hack people to death in the street in broad daylight (Lee Rigby killing)
We have white supremacist nutters here that are cool with shooting MPs (Jo Cox murder) how come that guy didn't use his gun to kill more people? (hint: it was a sawn off rifle and not well suited to mass murder)
Yes the culture here is totally different, but, US culture is certainly prevalent here in movies and music and the cult of celebrity. US culture influences a lot of life here, so why not the mass shootings?

Could it possibly be that our gun control laws work? That by and large the people that would perpetrate mass shootings here don't because it's damn hard to get hold of the 'right' guns in this country?
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
I doubt it, but if that was true, the person selling the gun is committing a crime and the person buying it is committing a crime, and continuing to possess it is a crime by itself. If the buyer gets caught using it for any purpose that might otherwise be legitimate -- target shooting, hunting, self-defense -- he can go to jail. If a visitor sees it on a table and reports it, he can go to jail. How many people would be willing to take that risk?

In the U.S., firearms are universally available legally unless you can't pass a background check, and even then there are legal ways to bypass it.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
Are you sure you're not confusing The United Kingdom with The University of Kentucky?
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:49 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
The reason that the US has so many mass shootings and the UK doesn't, in my opinion, is that the US has easy access to weapons. You can go into any Walmart in the US and buy guns and ammunition off the shelf, assuming you have the right paperwork, which by all accounts is easy to get.

Tesco or Sainsburys don't have gun counters in the UK and you sure as hell can't buy an AR-15 or a handgun anywhere. I kind of like things that way.
(and yes there are a bunch of guns *very* similar to an AR-15 or a "lengthened" handgun that are legal to purchase in the UK, but they are hard to get hold of, the paperwork is a serious PITA and they are eye wateringly expensive)
Eye-watering and a PITA is right

It took me just short of 12 months and a whole crapload of paperwork for me to import my Savage M12, and all up, it cost me about NZ$4000 (about $3,600 for the rifle, and another $400 for the other stuff such as freight and a private firearms import licence)

Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
Lets take a quick look at the total number of mass shootings since Dunblane (1996) in the UK...

1. Cumbria Shootings: 2nd June 2010 12 dead 11 injured.

and er that's it.
a further 37 people were killed in mass casualty, terrorist knife/bomb/vehicle attacks since then.

Here's a question for you. If guns were as easy to get hold of as you claim they are, then why aren't more UK terror attacks mass shootings?
Why do the terrorists here resort to knife/vehicle/bomb attacks?

Why are there no more Dunblanes, or Sandy Hooks, or Columbines in the UK? One of the major arguments against gun control that advocates have in the US is that gun laws don't stop criminals from getting hold of guns.

Your argument is that in the UK guns are simple to get hold of. So where is the gun violence here? We have people willing to hack people to death in the street in broad daylight (Lee Rigby killing)
We have white supremacist nutters here that are cool with shooting MPs (Jo Cox murder) how come that guy didn't use his gun to kill more people? (hint: it was a sawn off rifle and not well suited to mass murder)
Yes the culture here is totally different, but, US culture is certainly prevalent here in movies and music and the cult of celebrity. US culture influences a lot of life here, so why not the mass shootings?

Could it possibly be that our gun control laws work? That by and large the people that would perpetrate mass shootings here don't because it's damn hard to get hold of the 'right' guns in this country?
And as always, the argument you will get from Americans is

"B b b but.... mu'h guns, mu'h rights!"

I have three guns (well, two rifles and a shotgun). I love my guns, and I enjoy shooting them and using them and maintaining them. I also recognize that there is a greater good; that as a member of the human race, I have to own and use my guns under a set of laws that is set up to minimise gun crime in my country. So, I have to jump through a few hoops to buy guns and keep them in my home... that is the price I am prepared to pay.. the price of freedom.

Unfortunately, in America, they have a different price of freedom... its measured in dead schoolchildren. IMO, it is utterly irresponsible (and utterly stupid) to insist that your personal right to have free and easy access to guns outweighs the greater good of the community you live in. If countries like England and New Zealand and Australia can have the collective intelligence to understand that it is a good thing to have restricted access to guns, there is no reason why 300,000,000 citizens of the USA cannot do the same. The problem is that free ownership of guns is a drug, and America is an addict.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
What complete and utter twaddle.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:20 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What complete and utter twaddle.
Was thinking the same thing
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:26 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What complete and utter twaddle.
I'll (naturally) throw in an Australian perspective. My brother has had a shady past and once decades ago had an illegal handgun. He is now, amazingly, a security manager at a casino, so still having access to even shadier characters. I asked him once whether he could get hold of an illegal gun. "Not a hope" he said. You have to be part of, or incredibly closely connected to, outlaw bikie (or biker if you wish) gangs.

The idea of an ordinary person like me to get hold of an illegal gun is ridiculous.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:30 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
You've had your arse handed to you enough times already on this for anything I could say to have any impact but anyway, this is utter nonsense that you made up on the spot.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:59 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
.......What would you have to do to get one in NZ?
.......
Join the army, presumably.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:59 AM   #34
Bob001
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Why would you want one in New Zealand?

This question of yours speaks volumes of the toxic nature of the US gun culture. Owning a massive killing machine because you can? Sickening.
Whoa. I wasn't saying anybody should want or get one. I was making the point that what would be essentially impossible for a civilian to own in most of the world is commonly and casually available in the U.S., even to 18-year-olds.

Last edited by Bob001; 17th February 2018 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 17th February 2018, 01:17 AM   #35
lionking
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Whoa. I wasn't saying anybody should want or get one. I was making the point that what would be essentially impossible for a civilian to own in most of the world is commonly and casually available in the U.S., even to 18-year-olds.
Okay apologies if I misread you.
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Old 17th February 2018, 02:33 AM   #36
IanS
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All it takes to get a firearm in the U.K. is money ... often street level ilegal guns are cheaper as well

Have you ever lived in the UK? Every time there is a mass shooting in the USA, some US posters (or in your case Canadian?) pop up to claim that there's also easy access to guns for anyone in the UK and also quite a lot of gun crime in the UK etc., as if the situation in the UK was not much different than it is in the US.

OK, let me tell you what my experience is of living all my life (50 plus years) in London (which is one of the biggest and most densely populated cities on the planet ... so not exactly a sleepy little place where nothing much ever happens) - I have never seen a gun (except for armed police who are nowadays sometimes seen at Heathrow Airport, i.e. as a relatively recent development in respect of international terrorism). And nor have I ever met anyone in the UK who has ever seen a gun ... in fact I've never met a single person here who has ever even talked about or mentioned anything about guns at all (except perhaps on isolated occasions if they mention a major news item like the current US school shooting) ...

... unless you have some very strange friends indeed, it is completely unknown in the UK ever to walk into anyones home and find that they keep guns. You'd never see guns in any normal home in the UK. And nobody in the UK ever needs to think about the possibility of encountering anyone with a gun on UK streets. The possibility is just so remote that it would be like worrying that you should not go outside for fear of being attacked by a Tiger or getting Dengue Fever. It could happen ... but it's an X-million to one shot.

That does not mean that certain types of criminal in the UK do not obtain hand guns. They do. There are infrequent reports of that in the news. But almost all of those cases involve drug gangs in certain big cities (inc. London), where the guns are almost always just being used to threaten (and sometimes actually shoot) rival gang members in so-called "turf wars". They are also often very old guns (e.g. world-war-2 army pistols) or else replicas or decommissioned/deactivated guns that have been altered to make them useable again. And beyond all of that - when you see news reports of drug dealers or others who have been arrested with a loaded gun, it often turns out that they have just a few bullets (maybe 6 or 12, some low figure like that), and where the bullets are also of a type that have been re-assembled or partly home-made. But apart from that the only other people who have guns are farmers, and heavily controlled gun clubs that keep the guns on their club premises.

In the quite distant past the UK has seen a few cases of mass shooting similar to what happens in the US. The famous cases are Hungerford and Dumblane (i.e. Scotland), but those are both quite a long while ago now (Dunblane was 1996, and Hungerford 1987). However, UK gun laws were afaik tightened quite considerably after each of those cases, so that now it's almost impossible for any normal member of the public to get a gun ... and certainly it would be highly illegal and punishable by a severe sentence. People just do not have guns in the UK (not in remotely the same sort of way that they do in the USA).

Last edited by IanS; 17th February 2018 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 17th February 2018, 02:48 AM   #37
MikeG
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
Have you ever lived in the UK? Every time there is a mass shooting in the USA, some US posters (or in your case Canadian?) pop up to claim that there's also easy access to guns for anyone in the UK and also quite a lot of gun crime in the UK etc., as if the situation in the UK was not much different than it is in the US.

OK, let me tell you what my experience is of living all my life........
Spot on, Ian.

I've lived in the countryside all my life, and so have seen a few more guns. They're always shotguns, always used for shooting pheasants and partridges (and the occasional pigeon), and you can't just wander around with them. Their use and storage are tightly controlled. I know someone who lost his gun license because he was seen walking in a field with an "unbroken" shotgun.
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Old 17th February 2018, 02:54 AM   #38
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
Have you ever lived in the UK? Every time there is a mass shooting in the USA, some US posters (or in your case Canadian?) pop up to claim that there's also easy access to guns for anyone in the UK and also quite a lot of gun crime in the UK etc., as if the situation in the UK was not much different than it is in the US.

OK, let me tell you what my experience is of living all my life (50 plus years) in London (which is one of the biggest and most densely populated cities on the planet ... so not exactly a sleepy little place where nothing much ever happens) - I have never seen a gun (except for armed police who are nowadays sometimes seen at Heathrow Airport, i.e. as a relatively recent development in respect of international terrorism). And nor have I ever met anyone in the UK who has ever seen a gun ... in fact I've never met a single person here who has ever even talked about or mentioned anything about guns at all (except perhaps on isolated occasions if they mention a major news item like the current US school shooting) ...

... unless you have some very strange friends indeed, it is completely unknown in the UK ever to walk into anyones home and find that they keep guns. You'd never see guns in any normal home in the UK. And nobody in the UK ever needs to think about the possibility of encountering anyone with a gun on UK streets. The possibility is just so remote that it would be like worrying that you should not go outside for fear of being attacked by a Tiger or getting Dengue Fever. It could happen ... but it's an X-million to one shot.

That does not mean that certain types of criminal in the UK do not obtain hand guns. They do. There are infrequent reports of that in the news. But almost all of those cases involve drug gangs in certain big cities (inc. London), where the guns are almost always just being used to threaten (and sometimes actually shoot) rival gang members in so-called "turf wars". They are also often very old guns (e.g. world-war-2 army pistols) or else replicas or decommissioned/deactivated guns that have been altered to make them useable again. And beyond all of that - when you see news reports of drug dealers or others who have been arrested with a loaded gun, it often turns out that they have just a few bullets (maybe 6 or 12, some low figure like that), and where the bullets are also of a type that have been re-assembled or partly home-made. But apart from that the only other people who have guns are farmers, and heavily controlled gun clubs that keep the guns on their club premises.

In the quite distant past the UK has seen a few cases of mass shooting similar to what happens in the US. The famous cases are Hungerford and Dumblane (i.e. Scotland), but those are both quite a long while ago now (Dunblane was 1996, and Hungerford 1987). However, UK gun laws were afaik tightened quite considerably after each of those cases, so that now it's almost impossible for any normal member of the public to get a gun ... and certainly it would be highly illegal and punishable by a severe sentence. People just do not have guns in the UK (not in remotely the same sort of way that they do in the USA).
My sole disagreement with this is that the chances are that you have met plenty of people who have seen, and even own, guns legally in the UK as we do have far more licensed guns for vermin control, sports and hunting (particularly shotguns) than most people realise. Because the guns are safely and securely stored when not in use and are quite genuinely tools or sports equipment rather than a political statement or big part of someone's perceived identity it just doesn't come up. A few of the regulars in my local shoot, a few in my last one shot, it might occassionally come up as the answer to, "so, what have you been doing this morning?", but other than that... I'm not a shooter myself, but I think it's credit due.
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Old 17th February 2018, 03:02 AM   #39
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All it takes to get a firearm in the U.K. is money ... often street level ilegal guns are cheaper as well
This is complete and utter bollocks.

When I saw this post this morning, I Facebook messaged my half brother who lives in Bexhill in East Sussex. I asked him if he knew anyone who owns a gun, and to ask around if any of his family (who are spread all around the country) owns a gun or knows anyone who does. I just got the answer.

He doesn't know anyone who owns a gun, neither does his wife, or any of his five grown children. He also asked his neighbours and people he works with, None of them owned or knew anyone who owned a gun. However one of his son-in-laws knows several people who own guns... they are all farmers, and the guns are all shotguns that are only used during grouse shooting season. The reason he knows them because he is a large animal veterinarian, and the farmers are all clients.

Now, if you think its so easy to get guns in the UK go there and try to buy one... and good luck because you will need it.
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Old 17th February 2018, 03:12 AM   #40
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Now, if you think its so easy to get guns in the UK go there and try to buy one... and good luck because you will need it.
Probably best to cancel any appointments for the subsequent five years plus first.
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