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Old 17th February 2018, 11:52 AM   #81
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Loving the sheer number of anecdotes in this thread. Keep it up.
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:56 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
And you are wrong, as I can tell from personal experience. Were I so motivated, I could obtain anything from a simple handgun to a Barrett 50.

I have never done so. But I know those who could have provided such.

.....
Can you evidence your personal experience is common place?

If it was so easy to get a gun in the UK, how come illegal possession and use is so rare?
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:57 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It appears that Brits have guns but they don't use them to murder. So it's possible to have guns but not go on to kill. How could we go about having an America where people have the guns but don't murder?

(Is this question supposed to be in a different thread?)
Most Brits don't see guns (beyond those carried by firearms officers in potential terrorist targets) from one year to the next. I haven't handled a gun (excepting air rifles) since I was 18.

The requirements, even for a shotgun certificate are pretty stringent and the security requirements have increased significantly even since the 1980s, when they were already quite strict.

On another thread, Nessie posted links showing that some of the concealed-carry permit holders are low risks for gun crime compared to other types of gun holder, because of increased vetting. This high level of vetting is standard in the UK - Nessie has experience of this from the issuing POV, IIRC.


Guns are pretty rare and those that are around are securely stored, ammunition is also securely stored.

Some criminals can get hold of black-market guns of dubious quality with difficulty. Most of the rest of us would have no idea how to start, even if we wanted to. Because gun crime is so rare, it can be prioritised, so illegal gun ownership is taken very seriously - again making it harder for someone who has just gone postal to actually find a gun for a spree shooting - or any other type of shooting.
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:57 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It appears that Brits have guns but they don't use them to murder. So it's possible to have guns but not go on to kill. How could we go about having an America where people have the guns but don't murder?

(Is this question supposed to be in a different thread?)
You aren't allowed to wander around in the street with them.
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:59 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
You aren't allowed to wander around in the street with them.
Or use them as a substitute for a pair of rolled up sports socks down the front of your trousers.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:02 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Correct, but plenty of people keep rifles or more commonly shotguns, at home unloaded in secure storage that is inspected by the Police on demand. People who shoot targets or skeet are going to be members of clubs and probably use their storage, people who game shoot, or farmers and gamekeeper who have them for work will tend to keep them at home.

Oh, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC the minimum age for a shotgun license is 14.

I know you don't believe that legally owned guns are so prevalent, but that is exactly the point I was making about how the British shooting community don't make a big deal out of it, they're out there but they're out on private property and their guns are packed away and out of sight before they're back in public areas. They don't sling a Purdy over their shoulder and wander into Tesco, actually most of them wouldn't been seen dead in Tesco, make that Waitrose!

Incidentally, about a year or so ago I spent a long weekend at a hotel in Berkshire (ie, SE England, not miles from anywhere) which had gun cabinets for guests shotguns because the area is popular for pheasant shooting.

Yeah, I wouldn't seriously degree with most of that. Though I don't think the big or major difference between the UK vs the USA is that people in the UK simply have a more responsible attitude towards guns & shooting, as if it was more-or-less a similar situation in both countries except for a "fact" that British people as a matter of personal free choice prefer not to walk into UK supermarkets with a loaded gun! ... I'm pretty sure that nobody ever does that, and if they did then afaik they'd be arrested and charged double quick.

No, I think the big difference, and the main cause of the gun problems in the US, is that they do not have anywhere near such tight gun laws as we have in the UK/Europe, and it's far, FAR, too easy for almost anyone in the US to openly buy guns & bullets in High-St shops/stores all over the USA. As long as a voting majority in the US vote to retain that situation as their "gun rights", then they are really voting to say that mass killings such as we've just seen in Florida, and all sorts of other gun deaths & lesser shooting and wounding incidents are really being voted for as a price worth paying for their wish to own and shoot guns.

I expect there are additional factors, such as a long-standing historic piece of legislation in the US which gun enthusiasts still quote in order to demand the right to own all manner of loaded guns. I expect that is actually a problem, i.e. an attitude amongst many in the US who demand armed personal defence against either people on the streets who they think are going to attack them or rob them, or even where they apparently believe they need such weapons in case they ever need to remove a government by force! (i.e. by force of a public shooting war!). I expect that attitude/belief is a problem in the US, and that would certainly be very different to anything in the UK.

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Old 17th February 2018, 12:30 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Or use them as a substitute for a pair of rolled up sports socks down the front of your trousers.
You're not? How is that regulated? How is it enforced?
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Old 17th February 2018, 01:06 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't seriously degree with most of that. Though I don't think the big or major difference between the UK vs the USA is that people in the UK simply have a more responsible attitude towards guns & shooting, as if it was more-or-less a similar situation in both countries except for a "fact" that British people as a matter of personal free choice prefer not to walk into UK supermarkets with a loaded gun! ... I'm pretty sure that nobody ever does that, and if they did then afaik they'd be arrested and charged double quick.
That's a massive oversimplification of my position, verging on a strawman, UK gun owners tend to be sensible and deserve credit for that, but I've never suggested that this is in the absence of laws that filter out unsuitable owners or punish owners who break the rules. These factors re-enforce each other. I've posted, in one of the split posts, about how police resources and deployed to track down the sources of illegal gums for example.

If there was a drive by gun owners to reduce in the vein of the NRA they would be relatively small in number but would politically punch above their weight due to being disproportionately wealthy and/or members of the establishment. Prince Phillip famously opposed post Dunblane legislation likening Hamilton's rampage to a cricketer running amok with a bat.

The bit about supermarkets was, by the way, a joke. All be it one to emphisise the fact that British shooters practice their activity away from non shooters. If you think 'no-one' would take a loaded firearm to the supermarket I think you need to take a look at the American 'Open Carry' movement.

Now just to make it clear, I don't own a gun or go shooting. I've fired shotguns, worked as a pheasant beater briefly many years ago, fired a handgun in the US and know a couple of people who own guns in the UK, but I don't have any particular personal stake in this. So you might wonder why I care enough to post at (probably tedious) length about it? Firstly, because I think the system we have in the UK works pretty damn well and it does so because it's a good balance between the primary concern of public safety, the requirements of those with a need for firearms and the secondary concern of allowing people to safely and legally persue a pastime. The responsible behaviour of gun owners is part of that and I think that acknowledging it is reasonable. Secondly, a subset of those who oppose better regulation of guns in the US like to misrepresent UK law as 'all guns are banned' and I think that pointing out that there is a compromise that the majority can live with is a valid position.
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Old 17th February 2018, 01:31 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
That's a massive oversimplification of my position, verging on a strawman, UK gun owners tend to be sensible and deserve credit for that, but I've never suggested that this is in the absence of laws that filter out unsuitable owners or punish owners who break the rules. These factors re-enforce each other. I've posted, in one of the split posts, about how police resources and deployed to track down the sources of illegal gums for example.

If there was a drive by gun owners to reduce in the vein of the NRA they would be relatively small in number but would politically punch above their weight due to being disproportionately wealthy and/or members of the establishment. Prince Phillip famously opposed post Dunblane legislation likening Hamilton's rampage to a cricketer running amok with a bat.

The bit about supermarkets was, by the way, a joke. All be it one to emphisise the fact that British shooters practice their activity away from non shooters. If you think 'no-one' would take a loaded firearm to the supermarket I think you need to take a look at the American 'Open Carry' movement.

Now just to make it clear, I don't own a gun or go shooting. I've fired shotguns, worked as a pheasant beater briefly many years ago, fired a handgun in the US and know a couple of people who own guns in the UK, but I don't have any particular personal stake in this. So you might wonder why I care enough to post at (probably tedious) length about it? Firstly, because I think the system we have in the UK works pretty damn well and it does so because it's a good balance between the primary concern of public safety, the requirements of those with a need for firearms and the secondary concern of allowing people to safely and legally persue a pastime. The responsible behaviour of gun owners is part of that and I think that acknowledging it is reasonable. Secondly, a subset of those who oppose better regulation of guns in the US like to misrepresent UK law as 'all guns are banned' and I think that pointing out that there is a compromise that the majority can live with is a valid position.
Agree entirely.

ETA: Highlighted key part - especially the primary consideration of public safety and the secondary consideration of a valid pastime
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Old 17th February 2018, 01:35 PM   #90
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I watched a video the other day of some sort of confrontation between rightist and leftist protesters (about what they were protesting I have no idea) in some town in the US. Many of them were wearing masks, there were a few scuffles and everyone was screaming at each other. This I gather is standard, but the remarkable aspect was that almost everyone on both sides was carrying heavy weaponry, shotguns and rifles but mostly semi-automatic assault weapons more suited to a war zone than a suburban street. Dress code appeared to be Special Forces casual. A quick check revealed this sort of thing happens all the time.

I don't think many in the US realise how crazy this appears to foreigners. I wouldn't expect to see such behaviour in Afghanistan let alone Arizona. Of course laws make a difference and so does the availability of guns, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the ingrained immaturity of American society that is the catalyst.
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Old 17th February 2018, 01:36 PM   #91
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It is tedious just how often the firearms situation in the UK is misrepresented to make it appear it is virtually impossible to get a gun, hardly any types of gun are legal and there are very few guns in the UK.

It is very easy to find out how many people have guns and how many guns there are (as previously linked to)

England & Wales;

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ing-march-2015

Scotland;

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistic...rmCertificates

It is very easy to find out what is required to be able to possess a firearm, for example;

Northern Ireland

https://www.gov.uk/firearm-certificate-northern-ireland

Scotland;

http://www.scotland.police.uk/about-...rges/firearms/

Here are the forms;

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...lication-forms

Here is the primary law covering firearms, from 1968;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27

with amendments in 1982, 1988 and 1997. That's pretty much it. It is easy to find out what the true situation is in the UK regarding firearms, than it is in the USA.

Those who make claims about the firearms situation in the UK are being wilfully lazy and dishonest when they do not back up claims with evidence.
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Old 17th February 2018, 01:40 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post


There is nothing in the Firearms Act 1968 or any amendment that makes that specifically illegal because they are not in a public place. Section 19 covers public places.

It is a condition of licences that guns are stored separate from the ammo, when not in use.

I used to do firearms licensing and the reason it is not illegal to have a loaded gun to hand in the house, is because of circumstances where quick access is required to shoot vermin. Such houses are usually on farms or estate houses. I renewed a licence of someone who had a loaded rifle in the room, next to an open window, as he had just seen a fox walk by. He hoped to see it again and could shoot it. His house was a castle.
I bow to your superior knowledge; but I would point out that I did say "generally", and most rifle owners would probably not have any reason to have the gun 'in use" in the house, so keeping it loaded would fall foul of the licence conditions.
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Old 17th February 2018, 01:46 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post

Those who make claims about the firearms situation in the UK are being wilfully lazy and dishonest when they do not back up claims with evidence.
What particular claims are you talking about?
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Old 17th February 2018, 02:06 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
What particular claims are you talking about?
The ones where it is very difficult to get a gun in the UK, most guns are banned, hardly anyone has a gun, we are all scared of guns etc.
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Old 17th February 2018, 02:14 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
.... That by and large the people that would perpetrate mass shootings here don't because it's damn hard to get hold of the 'right' guns in this country?
It doesn't take a semi-auto firearm to commit a mass shooting. Charles Whitman used a bolt action rifle to shoot most of the people he killed in Texas back in 1966.
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Old 17th February 2018, 02:24 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It doesn't take a semi-auto firearm to commit a mass shooting. Charles Whitman used a bolt action rifle to shoot most of the people he killed in Texas back in 1966.
And you really think that is important or should mean anything?
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Old 17th February 2018, 02:32 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It doesn't take a semi-auto firearm to commit a mass shooting. Charles Whitman used a bolt action rifle to shoot most of the people he killed in Texas back in 1966.
Correct, the Monkseaton mass shooting was with a shotgun and the Cumbria mass shooting was with a shotgun and a bolt action rifle.

What it does take is for someone who should not have a gun to get hold of a gun.

In the USA that is ridiculously easy. Everywhere else in the western world, UK included, it is far harder.
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Old 17th February 2018, 03:25 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The ones where it is very difficult to get a gun in the UK, most guns are banned, hardly anyone has a gun, we are all scared of guns etc.
Some, if not all, of those are true. Compared with the US, which is the usual comparison in these discussions, getting a gun is difficult. Hardly anyone does have a gun, most people haven't even seen one, and most pistols, and probably most types of guns sold in the US, too, are banned.

To someone familiar with the process of obtaining a firearms certificate, maybe it doesn't seem difficult, but to the average man in the street, it's not something they are aware of. I'm unusual in that I've handled and fired pistols, rifles and shotguns, but I still wouldn't know where to start with getting a firearms certificate, or even where to go to buy a (legal) gun (apart from google, obviously).

Whether we're scared of guns is debatable; we're certainly not as comfortable with them as people in the US, and most people don't see any need to own one.
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Old 17th February 2018, 03:39 PM   #99
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"Guns aren't avaliable to people who can't be bothered to Google the procedure for getting a license or where the nearest gunsmith is" isn't a terribly high bar. Hell, the current regulations for obtaining a licence to ride a motorcycle on the road are probably more complicated and involve actual testing.
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Old 17th February 2018, 04:26 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It doesn't take a semi-auto firearm to commit a mass shooting. Charles Whitman used a bolt action rifle to shoot most of the people he killed in Texas back in 1966.
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Correct, the Monkseaton mass shooting was with a shotgun and the Cumbria mass shooting was with a shotgun and a bolt action rifle.

What it does take is for someone who should not have a gun to get hold of a gun.

In the USA that is ridiculously easy. Everywhere else in the western world, UK included, it is far harder.
However, semi-automatic makes it easier. Just as bump stocks make emulating automatic fire easier. There is a reason why the infantry went from breech-loading to bolt-action to semi-automatic to fully-automatic, albeit usually fired as semi-automatic weapons. If it's ideal for a confused battle situation, it's ideal for a spree shooter.
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Old 17th February 2018, 04:27 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I see from below that various people have dealt with your claims.

Riffing a bit on Captain_Swoop's post.






All firearms are not equal. If firearms were so easy to get hold of in the UK, then when the police do seize criminal firearms, one would expect to see new firearms that might be traced to a single crime and then thrown away (which tends to be the case in the US). Instead the police find that the gun has been used for a long time, for lots of different crimes and different users. Almost as if it is highly valuable contraband.

As well as this, a lot of the guns that are seized are repurposed blank-firing pistols (starting pistols etc) that have been modified to fire live rounds. Obviously these are still lethal, but would not be first choice if one had access to more reliable, mass-produced pistols.

On top of this, without ammunition, guns are only useful for intimidation. Again, ammunition is very tightly controlled in the UK and has been for decades, and not only ammunition but the empty cases* as well.

A lot of UK police seizures of criminal firearms show that the criminals are relying on hand-refilled rounds - again this would not be anyone's first choice if they had ready access to reliable mass-produced ammunition.



*Disclosure - although I went to a state school, we did have an armoury and shooting range for .22 rifles (and deactivated .303 rifles) and the live rounds and empty cases had to be accounted for, so did not leave the range.
Cases aren't controlled at all. One of the favourite 'Heavy Metal' fashion accessories used to be a 7.62 ammo belt from a GPMG re purposed as a waist belt.
Visit military displays and museums etc you can buy a bag full of various inert ammunition. On the desk in front of me I have NATO 7.62, 5.25 and 9mm parabellum rounds.
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Old 17th February 2018, 04:41 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
It sounds to me like the UK people who "own more than one", are almost entirely secure gun clubs where the guns are not allowed to be taken off the premises, and actually the police themselves! (not to mention the UK army on shooting ranges also "owning more than one gun"!).

At any rate it is certainly untrue that in private UK homes, people ever keep loaded guns (inc. automatic weapons!) simply out of either a hobbyist interest in owning guns, or out of any feeling that they need guns for personal protection against burglars or muggers on the streets or whatever ... that is the enormous difference between the UK (and afaik everywhere in the EU) vs. the USA.
Very few gun clubs keep many weapons on the premises for security reasons.
If you own a gun you keep it at home in a secure cabinet.
Your ammunition and bolt are kept locked in a separate cabinet.

Firearms does not include Shotguns.

To be issued a Firearm Certificate you need to show why you have a need to own a firearm. This would be something membership of a shooting club and participation in shooting sports. Presumption is that you will not be issued unless you show a serious commitment to a shooting sport and pass the storage regulation,s home visit and criminal record and mental health checks.

To be issued a shotgun certificate the Police have to show why you shouldn't be allowed to own a Shotgun. If you can show you have complied with storage regulations then it is presumed subject to home visit to check storage, you will be issued one subject to criminal record and mental health checks.

You are issued a certificate for a specific weapon. If you want to add another then you have to apply for a variance to your certificate subject to checks etc.

Ammunition is also controlled, amounts that can be stored at home are also subject to control by your certificate.

Certificates are subject to annual review and renewal.

I have in the past held both Firearms and Shotgun certificates and owned various rifles and a shotgun.

Air rifles and pistols including gas cartridge powered pistols below a certain power can be purchased without any kind of certificate. If they are above a set power measured in muzzle velocity feet per second they need a firearms certificate.
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Old 17th February 2018, 04:46 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post


In fact my school was exactly the same. A .22 range out the back, but ancient deactivated WWI 303s to practice handling the guns. Twice a year we took 'live' 303s out to an army range in Kent, where I proceeded to get hearing damage and lifetime tinnitus, as nobody gave any thought to ear protection back then
Army and Sea Cadet units are issued with Semi Auto versions of the SA80.
They are used for drill and target shooting on ranges.

22 Lee Enfield Mk8s are also issued for competition shooting
These are heavy barrel Lee Enfield Mk4 recievers with a cut down 'sporting' stock and are single loading to comply with competition rules.
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Old 17th February 2018, 05:03 PM   #104
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Old 17th February 2018, 07:20 PM   #105
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Old 17th February 2018, 08:23 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
Do a google new search for "Buying an Illegal Gun in the UK"
I very strongly recommend that you do not do this.
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Old 17th February 2018, 09:10 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I very strongly recommend that you do not do this.
Why?
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Old 17th February 2018, 09:53 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by theprestige
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I very strongly recommend that you do not do this.
Why?
lol
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:03 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
lol
Hah! That's funny!
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:04 PM   #110
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You have to love all of the people who tried to prove the OP wrong by linking to cites about legal guns.

Like that means dick all.

That would be like proving how many chocolate bars there are by linking to a cite that shows how much bubble gun is sold.

Someone in the UK who has enough wherewithal to acquire something like heroin could just as easily find a gun.

Anyone who thinks the OP is wrong in saying that all it takes to get a gun in the UK is a money hat is full of beans. And they know it. These are the same people who are so damn jealous that the neighbor has a 4K TV (that they will never be able to afford) they keep it a secret and trash talk 4K all day.

They know damn well that they will never have true freedom under their current government so they might as well just trash talk it and act like they do not want it.
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:09 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I watched a video the other day of some sort of confrontation between rightist and leftist protesters (about what they were protesting I have no idea) in some town in the US. Many of them were wearing masks, there were a few scuffles and everyone was screaming at each other. This I gather is standard, but the remarkable aspect was that almost everyone on both sides was carrying heavy weaponry, shotguns and rifles but mostly semi-automatic assault weapons more suited to a war zone than a suburban street. Dress code appeared to be Special Forces casual. A quick check revealed this sort of thing happens all the time.

I don't think many in the US realise how crazy this appears to foreigners. I wouldn't expect to see such behaviour in Afghanistan let alone Arizona. Of course laws make a difference and so does the availability of guns, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the ingrained immaturity of American society that is the catalyst.

Link? I don't think what you're describing actually happens all that often. In Charlottesville the organized neo-Nazis were heavily armed, but not the "leftists." There were not two armed camps confronting each other.

There are from time to time "open carry" demonstrations, where pro-gun "rights" advocates march around with their long guns and hand guns just to show they can.
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:12 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Are you in Dublin? Is this a difference from the UK - the mainland part at least?
Yup. Obtaining a weapon would be a trivial exercise. And the UK is not "the mainland".
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:22 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No I am not wrong and you are arguing about a misrepresentation of what I replied "rubbish" to. No one has claimed that it is not possible to get hold of illegal firearms in the UK. Most of us do not know someone we could get an illegal gun from.
I am not arguing against gun control. I am all for it. Nevertheless, given sufficient motivation, it would not be difficult to obtain one.

That said, the mass shooters in the US would likely be curtailed were solid controls in place. As it stands, the US appears to have no controls at all.
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Old 18th February 2018, 03:10 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All it takes to get a firearm in the U.K. is money ... often street level ilegal guns are cheaper as well
Only because at "street level" they more likely to be obsolete antiques, converted starting or tear gas pistols, or imitations.

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Old 18th February 2018, 03:10 AM   #115
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First of all, as This Is The End points out, we're not really talking about legal guns, or not specifically.
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
"Guns aren't avaliable to people who can't be bothered to Google the procedure for getting a license or where the nearest gunsmith is" isn't a terribly high bar. Hell, the current regulations for obtaining a licence to ride a motorcycle on the road are probably more complicated and involve actual testing.
Well, that's not what I said, and most people will already know someone who holds a motorcycle licence.

I did just google for the process; the first link I found happens to say this:
Quote:
Mike Eveleigh, Senior Firearms Officer for the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) says:

“Firearm and shotgun licensing is often complex and confusing, so when you are completing the forms – or even thinking about taking up shooting – it’s worth contacting your shooting organisation for help and guidance; after all that’s what you pay them for.
If you're not a farmer, or someone else living in a rural area, where there are more reasons for owning a gun, applying for an FAC is not something you can just go and do. You'll need to join a gun club, and convince someone there that you're trustworthy, since they'll likely be checked by the police. You'll need to give two referees. You'll need to identify the specific type of gun you want to buy. You need to have a safe to keep the gun, and one to keep the ammunition, and the police will need to come to your house and approve them. You need to be registered with your GP, and give permission for the police to contact them.

Sure, once you've done it, once or a couple of times, it may seem easy, but it's not.

And, getting back to the OP, wasn't it you making the point that it wasn't easy for someone in a similar situation to the Florida shooter to get a gun in the UK? Now you're saying it is?
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Old 18th February 2018, 03:11 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
You know that for sure, all the way from Canada, do you?
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Old 18th February 2018, 03:22 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Some, if not all, of those are true. Compared with the US, which is the usual comparison in these discussions, getting a gun is difficult. Hardly anyone does have a gun, most people haven't even seen one, and most pistols, and probably most types of guns sold in the US, too, are banned.

To someone familiar with the process of obtaining a firearms certificate, maybe it doesn't seem difficult, but to the average man in the street, it's not something they are aware of. I'm unusual in that I've handled and fired pistols, rifles and shotguns, but I still wouldn't know where to start with getting a firearms certificate, or even where to go to buy a (legal) gun (apart from google, obviously).

Whether we're scared of guns is debatable; we're certainly not as comfortable with them as people in the US, and most people don't see any need to own one.
The process of getting a gun in the UK is easier than that required to get a CCW permit in Texas. Check out the 71 FAQs for such a permit here;

https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/LTC/faqs/index.htm

"You must also submit a completed application, pay the required fees, complete all required training and submit required supplemental forms and materials."

There is no training needed to have a gun in the UK. There is also no requirement to submit finger prints as there is in Texas;

"Yes. There is a fee charged for fingerprint services. For additional information regarding the Fingerprint Application Services of Texas (FAST) please visit our website.
To schedule an appointment at a time and location convenient to you, please use one of the following methods...."

The UK licence application form is equivalent to applying for a passport or drivers licence, in terms of questions asked and complexity.

To find out the process you contact the local police and they send you a form, or with many, you can print one off online;

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...2017_-_PDF.pdf

I got that in 5 seconds with a simple search "firearms application form". As for buying a gun, I searched "firearms dealers" and there are 11 within 50 miles of me.

Yes, we are limited compared to the USA as to what guns we can lawfully hold, but we can still possess;

http://www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/uk-...arms-law-2018/



As for being scared of guns, there is a huge tradition of shooting in the UK and whilst the majority of city dwellers are not used to seeing a gun and we only ever see open carry with the police on rare occasions, they are not the means to measure our overall attitude to guns.
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Old 18th February 2018, 03:23 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
All you have do is ask around ... it's not rocket science.

Almost everyone already knows someone connected.
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
You know that for sure, all the way from Canada, do you?
I'd probably have more luck trying to make my own firearm. I could probably manage something a bit like an arquebus.

Because gun crime is so rare in the UK and the population wants to keep it that way, the police and criminal justice system can and do prioritise gun crime.

Trust is going to be in short supply in the criminal world, so it would be very risky for a criminal to supply a gun (not guns) to someone they don't know.

Police seizures show that career criminals in the UK struggle to get hold of firearms - even poor-quality ones.
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Old 18th February 2018, 03:27 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
"Guns aren't avaliable to people who can't be bothered to Google the procedure for getting a license or where the nearest gunsmith is" isn't a terribly high bar. Hell, the current regulations for obtaining a licence to ride a motorcycle on the road are probably more complicated and involve actual testing.
Correct. There are all the forms to fill out to apply for and sit the CBT, hazard awareness test, knowledge test, Mod 1 (manoeuvrability test) and Mod 2 (open road test).

To get a gun, fill this one form out;

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...2017_-_PDF.pdf

two referees, a visit from the police (often a civilian licensing officer) and buy a gun safe.
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Old 18th February 2018, 03:32 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...un-London.html[/quotw

Do a google new search for "Buying an Illegal Gun in the UK"

All sorts of guns, FLOOD in from adjoining countries, non-lethal guns from Romania and Russia are converted to fire normal lethal cartridges,
It might have escaped your notice, but the UK "adjoins" neither Romania nor Russia. Rather than a "flood," what generally happens is the occasional more enterprising criminal hits on a way of converting something obtained on the Continent that may be legal in the UK (e.g. a particular starting pistol) or not legal in the UK (e.g. tear gas pistols) that can be converted to fire live ammunition. They bring in a few, get greedy, and manage to import maybe a few dozen or score before they draw too much attention to themselves and get nicked.

Quote:
deactivate guns are converted to operational.
Generally they're not. You know how many crimes were known to involve reactivated firearms in England & Wales over the last ten years? Twenty-four, and only three in the last five years. Unreactivated firearms also accounted for 24 over the last ten years, and only ten in the last five. Deactivated firearms generally don't get used in crimes because they are very expensive on the legitimate market, especially those deactivated to early standards that can potentially be reactivate. Collectors value them more highly because the action still moves freely, and they can be partially or wholly stripped. If these fall into the hands of criminals, they have more value as objects than as firearms (potential or otherwise).

Quote:
Or just enjoy you mythical ideas that no guns are available in your area ... maybe go on a unicorn ride while you're dreaming.
Nobody is pretending that British criminals who want them can't or don't use firearms, but the reality is that the vast majority don't want to do that, and so don't use them. The level of firearms crime has been consistently falling in almost every year out of the last twelve. In 2003/04 there were 24,094 crimes involving firearms, of which 13,756 were air weapons (mostly criminal damage). In 2015/16, despite recent slight rises, the total was only 8,399 of which 3,217 were air weapons.

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