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Old 18th February 2018, 04:18 PM   #201
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The process of getting a gun in the UK is easier than that required to get a CCW permit in Texas. Check out the 71 FAQs for such a permit here;

https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/LTC/faqs/index.htm

"You must also submit a completed application, pay the required fees, complete all required training and submit required supplemental forms and materials."

There is no training needed to have a gun in the UK. There is also no requirement to submit finger prints as there is in Texas;

"Yes. There is a fee charged for fingerprint services. For additional information regarding the Fingerprint Application Services of Texas (FAST) please visit our website.
To schedule an appointment at a time and location convenient to you, please use one of the following methods...."

The UK licence application form is equivalent to applying for a passport or drivers licence, in terms of questions asked and complexity.

To find out the process you contact the local police and they send you a form, or with many, you can print one off online;

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...2017_-_PDF.pdf

I got that in 5 seconds with a simple search "firearms application form". As for buying a gun, I searched "firearms dealers" and there are 11 within 50 miles of me.

Yes, we are limited compared to the USA as to what guns we can lawfully hold, but we can still possess;

http://www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/uk-...arms-law-2018/

http://www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/wp-...RJCMAAMRmw.jpg

As for being scared of guns, there is a huge tradition of shooting in the UK and whilst the majority of city dwellers are not used to seeing a gun and we only ever see open carry with the police on rare occasions, they are not the means to measure our overall attitude to guns.
Your picture is deceptive. IF you have a .22 semi auto that looks like an AK or AR it will have completely different upper receiver and bolt system as none of the parts can be derived from the larger calibre versions. The mechanism is usually a blow back system, not a locking bolt. There can be no commonality so that the weapon cannot be rebuilt to shoot a different round.
Single shot versions have to be manual pull bolt systems, the can't have any commonality with semi auto versions so they can't be converted to fire semi auto.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:30 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Pheasant shooting with a rifle?
No, that would be 'Lamping' for rabbits but the preferred weapon is a Precharger Air Rifle with a rotary magazine and a moderator, it's almost completely silent. You can get three or four with one 'flash' of your lamp.

Back in the 80s and early 90s the preferred ammo (until they were banned) was a steel slug with a nylon sabot, they would go supersonic at spring ratings below that of a FAC certificate and had a very good range and accuracy out performing a 22lr.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:30 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
.........Trying to conceal jealousy sure does make people act weird...
Saying this repeatedly, despite the evidence, doesn't do much for anyone's weirdness quotient.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:32 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I live a bit south of that, in the Surrey Hills. Plenty of banging away on farms over the weekends, and our local butcher sells a lot of game, pheasant, pigeon etc. The pigeons have warnings on the labels that they might still contain shot.

Plenty of people I know have shotguns, and one lady in my office has, I believe, (her and husband) quite a collection, including rifles and whatever they use for competitive target shooting.

But they don't wander around the village packing heat (I watch movies), so it doesn't bug me in the least.
I live on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors. We have the Guisborough Estate, Skelton Castle Estate and Zetland Mulgrave Castle Estsate surrounding us. When there is a Pheasant shoot in the woods or Grouse Shoot on the Moors it sounds like a battle going on.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:35 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
I was out riding my bike last year with a mate through some of the wooded trails near here and we stopped at the top of a hill overlooking a valley that a load of pheasant shooters had setup at.

There were ~10 or so people lined up at the bottom of the valley and another 10 or so people behind them chasing pheasants out of the trees/bushes.

There's an almighty kerfuffle and suddenly about 10 birds take to the air and fly directly over the heads of all the shooters who suddenly spring into action and a volley of 20 or so rounds are let loose.

Not one single hit was scored and all of the birds continued flying away into the distance.

One of the funniest things I've seen while out for a ride.

Beaters aren't behind the guns, they are in front of them beating towards the guns. It's an 'interesting' job.
I have beaten a few shoots in my time, it's easy money and beaters don't get shot that often.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:39 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The cut off for that is 1939 and the start of WWII;

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articl...-calibre-list/

A modern weapon with obsolete ammo needs a licence. I did a licence for a Luger pistol which the owners father had procured during WWII from an SS officer.



You don't legally need a reason to have a shotgun, but the police ask anyway.
Only weapons with 'obsolete' ammunition can be owned. You cannot own for example a working Luger as it doesn't use obsolete ammunition it is covered by the ban on pistols.
Some Manlicher Semi-Auto pistols can be owned without being 'deactivated' because they used special ammunition unique to the model and no longer available.

It can be a 'sticky' subject and easy for collectors to get in to trouble.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:41 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The only way his licence can be legally removed is if he broke the law or did something that casts doubt on his suitability to have a gun.

What he did was hardly dangerous, of dubious illegality and I am saddened he lost his licence over a trivial issue.
Maybe there were other issues contributing and this one was the 'straw'.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:59 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There is no equivalent.

You are still missing the point I am making. Lets say there are 27 different forms of licence and permit to have a gun in the USA. Of those 25 are easier to get than a UK firearms licence and 2 are harder. That would make those 2 an exception.
Help me understand: Something that is licensed in the US, and not in the UK, is *easier* to do in the UK?

This is how you intend to debunk the myth that it's hard to get guns in UK? By bringing up an activity that is literally not allowed in the UK?
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Old 18th February 2018, 05:10 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
The claim in the OP has nothing at all to do with the US.

The claim was that if you have plenty of money it is easy to get a gun in the UK.

Which is provably true.

....
Okay, I'll bite. Prove it. How much money and how easy? I don't think anybody really doubts that organized crime elements with foreign connections can get whatever they want if they want it badly enough. But is it really "easy" for the average street thug, let alone some fool who gets mad at his boss or his teacher, to buy a working handgun in an alley? How often are handguns used in street robberies and assaults in the UK? All of the evidence indicates that such incidents are pretty rare.
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Old 18th February 2018, 05:48 PM   #210
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The OP is very short and I'm surprised This Is The End failed to understand it. It says

"All it takes to get a firearm in the U.K. is money"

This rules out legal guns, since it is demonstrably true that simply having money is not the criterion by which you obtain a legal gun.

So immediately we're into the realm of illegal guns. Again, having money alone will get you the same number of illegal guns as legal guns, i.e. none, although it will get you some unwanted attention which will likely land you in hospital.

So there, in summary, are your chances of obtaining a gun in the UK with money alone. Zero, or as close to zero as makes no difference. If you are a member of a 'known' family, or a gang member in certain cities, or are in the highly unusual position of having either of the former vouch for you, then your chances are higher, but it's still a rarity.
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Old 18th February 2018, 09:39 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The OP is very short and I'm surprised This Is The End failed to understand it. It says

"All it takes to get a firearm in the U.K. is money"

This rules out legal guns, since it is demonstrably true that simply having money is not the criterion by which you obtain a legal gun.


Pretty odd that someone could think I failed to understand that, considering I'm literally the person admonishing people for talking about legal guns:

Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
You have to love all of the people who tried to prove the OP wrong by linking to cites about legal guns.

Like that means dick all.

That would be like proving how many chocolate bars there are by linking to a cite that shows how much bubble gun is sold.


It's literally one of only two posts I made in the entire thread so it's not like someone with me on the brain could have missed it.

Not understanding from that post that The is The End is fully aware that the claim in the OP is not talking about legal guns is a logic fail of epic proportions. I'm not sure if one could be bigger.

Oh wait:



Originally Posted by baron View Post
So immediately we're into the realm of illegal guns. Again, having money alone will get you the same number of illegal guns as legal guns, i.e. none, although it will get you some unwanted attention which will likely land you in hospital.

This is so beyond full of **** false that it borders on believing in bigfoot.

That would be like saying it is impossible to acquire heroin as well.

Let's put it this way, if a person has enough money and is not a complete ******* idiot they can acquire a gun without landing in jail or a hospital. At the very least they have about the same chance of getting caught as they would buying heroin.

And the percentage of people that get caught buying heroin in the UK when counting each individual transaction is so small to be practically zero. And unlike heroin, you only have to buy the gun once, not daily.
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Old 19th February 2018, 12:09 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I live on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors. We have the Guisborough Estate, Skelton Castle Estate and Zetland Mulgrave Castle Estsate surrounding us. When there is a Pheasant shoot in the woods or Grouse Shoot on the Moors it sounds like a battle going on.
There's a shoot in the field next to our house so every Thursday during pheasant season is quite noisy. Was a bit of surprise the first time.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:10 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
The claim was that if you have plenty of money it is easy to get a gun in the UK.

Which is provably true.
Got any evidence to support this claim?

i) Define gun.
It's relatively easy to legally get hold of many guns here. Though if the claim is about obtaining said gun on the black market then you'd assume that we're talking about one of the guns that isn't available on the legal market.

ii) Define "plenty of money".

Black market gun prices are something in the region of 3 to 4x the cost of legal guns. BUT the money isn't the issue, you need to find someone you can buy one from AND you need to gain that sellers trust.

If the seller thinks you are an undercover cop you get told to **** off, if they think you are an easy mark they beat you up and steal your money.

Yes there are illegal guns here. Yes it's possible to buy them. Yes they will cost a lot. That's not the claim though, the claim is that it's *easy* to do so.

It most certainly is not.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:17 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Beaters aren't behind the guns, they are in front of them beating towards the guns. It's an 'interesting' job.
I have beaten a few shoots in my time, it's easy money and beaters don't get shot that often.
IIRC they had beaters in front of and behind them, either way the birds flew over the top of the shooters from behind them. I just found it hilarious that they failed to hit a single target.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:37 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Of course not. I'm making the point that there is no basis to claim that U.S. firearms laws are more stringent than the UK's. Comparing what you have to do in Texas to carry a loaded Colt .45 under your jacket to what the UK requires for you to keep an unloaded single-shot .22 locked up in your garage doesn't make much sense.
I am comparing all the different circumstances a person can lawfully have a gun in the USA to all the different circumstances that someone can lawfully have a gun in the UK.

Overall, there are far more circumstances a person can lawfully have a gun in the USA than it is in the UK.

I was doing a comparison of the entire system. In doing so I noticed that the application process to get a Texan LTC involves doing more and is harder to get than a UK firearms licence.

I posted that information in response to earlier claims which suggested it was difficult to get a legal gun in the UK, UK people would not even know where to start getting a gun, as others were claiming it is easy to get an illegal one.

The aim was to evidence the real situation, by linking to the UK application process and one of the processes in the USA. I wanted to show it is not as difficult as suggested to get a licence in the UK.

I have been unable to properly explain that point and have clearly caused a lot of confusion, for which I apologise.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:45 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Help me understand: Something that is licensed in the US, and not in the UK, is *easier* to do in the UK?

This is how you intend to debunk the myth that it's hard to get guns in UK? By bringing up an activity that is literally not allowed in the UK?
I am so sorry that I cannot make my point clear to you. All I can do is say I said nothing like what you suggest above. I then used the term CCW when I should have said LTC and I have been using the term gun when I should have said licence or permit and wish I had not got into this at all.

I was ONLY commenting on the different ways people can apply to have licences or permits for different guns under different circumstances.

I noticed an application process in the USA that is harder than the application process in the UK.

I thought it OK to comment on that, I was wrong.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:52 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
IIRC they had beaters in front of and behind them, either way the birds flew over the top of the shooters from behind them. I just found it hilarious that they failed to hit a single target.
Normal practice is that the birds are driven towards the guns and then the beaters are stopped on signal (usually a horn blast) at around 50 mtrs out.

The guns turn around and the beaters continue up to the rear of the butts, driving the birds overhead.

I (despite many days beating) have never known beaters approching from the front and rear simultaneously. Maybe flankers confused you on the day or some local methodology was at play.
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Old 19th February 2018, 03:08 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Bit of a rant...






This is so beyond full of **** false that it borders on believing in bigfoot.

That would be like saying it is impossible to acquire heroin as well.

Let's put it this way, if a person has enough money and is not a complete ******* idiot they can acquire a gun without landing in jail or a hospital. At the very least they have about the same chance of getting caught as they would buying heroin.
I believe the correct term is bollocks. Try reading (and comprehending) the whole thread. There are a million (open to correction) penny ante heroin dealers, and plenty of junkies. Guns in the UK are a very different ballgame.

Junkies need their fix. Not many people in a country without a gun problem need a gun.
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Old 19th February 2018, 03:40 AM   #219
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The claim that legal guns are irrelevant to this thread is false.

Firstly, the thread title is availability of 'guns' period.

Secondly, this thread was not started by the first post, it is a split thread from the discussion of the Florida shooting due to a comment I made causing a derail. That comment was about a situation I am currently involved with which has certain similarities to the actions of to Cruz prior to the shooting and expressed my relief that this person didn't have access to firearms, if the fact that the shooter being discussed and compared to possessed his guns legally wasn't a big enough clue I reiterated the point in my next post.

By the time this thread was split off it already contained posts about legal guns, illegal guns, and the number of legal gun owners in the UK. The fairly arbitrary split point doesn't mean that post retroactively defines the terms of the discussion.
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Old 19th February 2018, 03:50 AM   #220
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I'm still waiting for This is The End's evidence, or even experience, that could prompt him to come out with such an crazy statement. He's right, I did miss that he had ruled out legal guns, but that was simply because his assertion was so lunatic that I didn't quite grasp its full absurdity and assumed he had misinterpreted the OP. Astonishingly, he had not, and he meant what he said.

Quite what buying drugs has to do with buying guns is unclear. It seems to be This is The End's contention that because (most) guns are illegal in the UK, and heroine is illegal in the UK, then their acquisition must be equally easy. This is peculiar reasoning to say the least. Maybe it's also very easy to purchase a kilo of enriched uranium, because that's illegal too and therefore even a junkie will be able to grab some on any street corner.

And that's before we even get into the 4K TV issue. And they're not even illegal :O
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Old 19th February 2018, 04:29 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I'm still waiting for This is The End's evidence, or even experience, that could prompt him to come out with such an crazy statement. He's right, I did miss that he had ruled out legal guns, but that was simply because his assertion was so lunatic that I didn't quite grasp its full absurdity and assumed he had misinterpreted the OP. Astonishingly, he had not, and he meant what he said.
[Anecdote]My late best friend was a gun-nut living in London. After his death, his parents found a small arsenal of handguns in his flat. It's not clear how he had obtained these guns but it's almost certain that he'd acquired them locally and illegally - though in conversations before his death he had claimed various things including that he'd brought them through customs in a diplomatic bag and that they were government issue for his job as an assassin*.

Regardless, the reaction of his parents, and the police were such that it illustrated that the discovery of such a large cache (I think there were between 5 and 10) of handguns was truly remarkable, and therefore that guns are not that easy to obtain[/Anecdote]

No doubt, if you are "connected" then it isn't that difficult to rent one of the comparatively few illegal handguns which are doing the rounds. As Baron, and others, have suggested, this would mean either having a reputation yourself for reliability and/or having someone vouch for you. This wouldn't be an easy process and I for one wouldn't know where to start. The idea that it's easy to get a gun in the UK is an oft-repeated story in the Daily Mail and Daily Express but it requires a very special definition of easy and/or a very particular definition of who is trying to acquire the weapon.


* - my friend was bipolar and during his "manic" phases became quite fantastic.
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Old 19th February 2018, 04:46 AM   #222
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The Don - Do you know how many of those guns were viable, or if any were replicas or fakes? Was there any ammo? It does happen, people have illegal guns, but as you say, when someone is found to own a prohibited gun in the UK it's a big deal. One time they closed off several streets in Manchester and sent a dozen armed response personnel in to deal with someone suspected of carrying a gun (not using one or threatening with one, just possessing one). It turned out to be a replica. Just one reason why you won't get someone risking a minimum five years in jail (not to mention risk getting shot) for supplying a gun to some random person with a few quid in his pocket.
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Old 19th February 2018, 05:29 AM   #223
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At least one was viable and had ammunition....
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Old 19th February 2018, 06:43 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I am comparing all the different circumstances a person can lawfully have a gun in the USA to all the different circumstances that someone can lawfully have a gun in the UK.

Overall, there are far more circumstances a person can lawfully have a gun in the USA than it is in the UK.

I was doing a comparison of the entire system. In doing so I noticed that the application process to get a Texan LTC involves doing more and is harder to get than a UK firearms licence.

I posted that information in response to earlier claims which suggested it was difficult to get a legal gun in the UK, UK people would not even know where to start getting a gun, as others were claiming it is easy to get an illegal one.

The aim was to evidence the real situation, by linking to the UK application process and one of the processes in the USA. I wanted to show it is not as difficult as suggested to get a licence in the UK.

I have been unable to properly explain that point and have clearly caused a lot of confusion, for which I apologise.
I liked your post. I live in a state with free open and concealed carry. So it was fun to learn Texas was more strict.
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Old 19th February 2018, 06:53 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
At least one was viable and had ammunition....
Much ammo? That tends to be significant too.

Did the police trace the source of the guns so far as you know?
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Old 19th February 2018, 08:54 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Normal practice is that the birds are driven towards the guns and then the beaters are stopped on signal (usually a horn blast) at around 50 mtrs out.

The guns turn around and the beaters continue up to the rear of the butts, driving the birds overhead.

I (despite many days beating) have never known beaters approching from the front and rear simultaneously. Maybe flankers confused you on the day or some local methodology was at play.
Maybe I was misunderstanding the scene, or my memory is faulty. All I know about pheasant shooting is that there are beaters and shooters (and pheasants, and shotguns and dogs) but it still tickled me to watch a flock of birds fly over the shooters, a volley of fire rings out and the birds just continued on their way unscathed.
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Old 19th February 2018, 08:59 AM   #227
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Sometimes they even shoot themselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-41973397

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ral-shoot.html
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Old 19th February 2018, 06:59 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
IIRC they had beaters in front of and behind them, either way the birds flew over the top of the shooters from behind them. I just found it hilarious that they failed to hit a single target.
You beat from more than one direction towards the guns because the birds fly away from the beaters so you drive them back again.
After a few beats at one location the shooters move to a new stand and you do it all again.

Grouse shooting is on the open flat moors and the shooters stand in 'Butts' which are dry stone walled enclosures with enough space for a pair of shooters in each one. They camauflage the shooters so the bird when put up will fly away from the beaters towards the shooters. Butts are arranged in lines. Once the birds are put up at one set of Butts the shooters move to a different one, usually in Land Rovers along tracks through the heather.

Heather is burned off in strips every couple of years to keep the plants young and low, it supports more grouse. If you look at the North Yorkshire Moors or the Yorkshire Dales on google Satellite view you will see the strips of pale and dark heather and can make out the lines of Butts.
It's a very lucrative sport. People pay thousands for a days shooting on the Moors.
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Old 20th February 2018, 01:31 AM   #229
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I was shocked to find out how lax the laws and rules are regarding shooting. As I mentioned, there's a pheasant shoot in the field next door to our house. A few years ago they had a particularly undisciplined bunch shooting and they were quite close to the house. At times they were also shooting towards the house so that as I was working in the garden, I was being regularly peppered with spent shot, at least one of which was moving quickly enough to draw blood.

The situation came to a head when one shooter started climbing over our boundary fence, unbroken shotgun in hand, to retrieve a fallen bird from our garden. We had "words" and he left, muttering.

I checked to see whether they were entitled to shoot so close to our house and AFAIK, there is no prohibition. They could line up on our boundary fence and shoot over our garden. There is a prohibition on shooting within 50m of a road but as for the rest of it, it's apparently just good manners.

We spoke to the shoot owner and since "the incident" he's been good at making sure that the guns stay well away from the house and don't shoot in our direction. We also get a few brace of pheasant and duck for our troubles every year.
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Old 20th February 2018, 02:19 AM   #230
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It is because the aristocracy and toffs want to go on shoots, which use shotguns, that the licensing laws for shotguns have always been less strict that for other firearms.

You should have reported being hit by shot to the police, reckless discharge of a firearm, a common law crime, still applies to those people.

This is from a few days ago;

http://www.ruralalert.co.uk/da/20876...f_Firearm.html

"About 1800hrs on Saturday 10th February, a male was legitimately deer stalking within the Dochart Forest, Killin between Glenoglehead and Lix Toll. Whilst doing so, someone else within the forest fired a rifle in close proximity and in the direction of the complainer. The public can be reassured there was no attempt to fire the gun at any person, however the actions were considered reckless and dangerous."
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:08 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
No, making your own ammo is permitted and plenty of people do it.
I never said it wasn't. I pointed out that previously the equipment for hand-loading was not as restricted as ready-made ammunition. The situation previously was that anybody could buy all the components for hand-loading without even having a FAC, let alone presenting it. New restrictions came in around 2007 that meant the purchasers now have to show their FAC, and are limited to the amount of components they can buy.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 20th February 2018 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:14 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
It is because the aristocracy and toffs want to go on shoots, which use shotguns, that the licensing laws for shotguns have always been less strict that for other firearms.
Many years back when I did a few stints as a beater it was the city boys from London in the heady days of Thatcherism coming out to play at being old money. I stopped after hearing the shot whistle past a couple of times, the 'pay to play' shooters never struck me as good enough to be allowed out shooting at living things and around people, I always thought a qualifying session shooting at skeet would make it safer and more humane.
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:17 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I happen to know how you can legally buy guns in Britain. You buy an antique gun which takes obsolete ammunition. Percussion guns, and rim fire guns, and flintlock guns are perfectly legal and on sale in antique shops. The only problem you have is loading them.
Apart from that you can apply for a gun licence to own a single shot rifle or a shotgun.
But you have to give the police a good reason for owning one.
You've missed out quite a few types of firearm there. For one thing, rifles (and shotguns) are not restricted to "single shot" by any stretch. You can fully license a straight-pull 7.62mm L1A1 SLR (FN FAL) with a 30-round magazine (from a L4 LMG), if you want.
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:31 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It occurs to me that vets used to have pistols for killing horses (at point-blank range). Does anyone know what they do instead these days?
They still can.
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:34 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I know how to get a glock handgun and an mp5 machine gun in England. Mug a policeman.
You'll need a pair of bolt-cutters for the security lanyard.
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:42 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
That would be like saying it is impossible to acquire heroin as well.
No it isn't, because it's far far easier to obtain most Class A drugs - including heroin - in the UK, than it is to obtain an illegal firearm.
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:50 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Many years back when I did a few stints as a beater it was the city boys from London in the heady days of Thatcherism coming out to play at being old money. I stopped after hearing the shot whistle past a couple of times, the 'pay to play' shooters never struck me as good enough to be allowed out shooting at living things and around people, I always thought a qualifying session shooting at skeet would make it safer and more humane.
It's still the same. Grouse shooting is all 'Pay to play' A days shooting on a good moor will cost you thousands.
Woodland and field shoots can be a lot cheaper but a good shooting wood will cost. Over towards Whitby one of the Earl of Zetlands Estates at Mulgrave Castle is considered one of the best shooting estates in the country. Elle MacPherson the Australian model and actress used to have the summer lease on the castle and shooting. Lots of celebs and City types used to flock the place.
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Old 20th February 2018, 06:06 AM   #238
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Yeah, I suppose I was really thinking about the difference between people who do it regularly (and would own their own guns) and the 'occasionally if even more than once' guns. I think ours were mostly the latter.
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Old 20th February 2018, 08:20 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Hand-loaded ammunition was only "popular" amongst criminals in the UK at one point because there weren't the same restrictions on the tools and components for hand-loading as there were on ready-made ammunition. I may be wrong, but I think that loophole has been closed.
What reloading tools in the UK are restricted? I've read about certain restrictions on primers and other components.

Last edited by Ranb; 20th February 2018 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 20th February 2018, 08:25 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
You'll need a pair of bolt-cutters for the security lanyard.
In which case the police aren't armed yet.
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