ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 20th February 2018, 08:50 AM   #241
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 7,969
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
What reloading tools in the UK are restricted? I've read about certain restrictions on primers and other components. It all seems rather draconian.
Until about ten years ago, anyone could walk into a gun shop and buy everything: press, cases, power, primers, etc. They did not have to show the seller a Firearms Certificate (FAC), because one was not required to buy any of those things. This is in contrast to factory ammunition, for which the purchaser would have to show not only their valid FAC, but that it covered firearms of the calibre they were purchasing ammunition for. If you only had a 7.62mm rifle on your FAC, for example, you couldn't also get a box of 9mm for a friend.

Obviously this was a loophole that criminals exploited to obtain - or rather assemble their own - ammunition, and eventually became enough of a concern to the authorities that the law was changed so that the purchaser needs to show an appropriate FAC for certain supplies. There is a combined 5kg limit on the amount of propellant and primers a person can have in their possession at any one time. Only what had yet to be used is included in that 5kg - once round have actually been made up, the propellant and primers are no longer counted, and neither are the propellant or primers in any factory ammunition held by the same person. I believe that propellant only has to be stored safely, but primers have to be stored securely, along with made up or factory ammunition of any type. There's a larger limit on black powder, but it has to be stored in a secure mainly wooden box to reduce the risk from "shrapnel" in event of accidental explosion.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 09:00 AM   #242
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 7,969
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In which case the police aren't armed yet.
Sure they are. I suspect that you're mistaken about what I was referring to.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 20th February 2018 at 09:11 AM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 09:03 AM   #243
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Sure they are. I suspect that you're mistaken about what I was referring to.
Probably I am.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 10:22 AM   #244
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I am so sorry that I cannot make my point clear to you. All I can do is say I said nothing like what you suggest above. I then used the term CCW when I should have said LTC and I have been using the term gun when I should have said licence or permit and wish I had not got into this at all.

I was ONLY commenting on the different ways people can apply to have licences or permits for different guns under different circumstances.

I noticed an application process in the USA that is harder than the application process in the UK.

I thought it OK to comment on that, I was wrong.
You weren't wrong to think commentary is okay. You were wrong in the specifics of the commentary itself.

You compared an activity that doesn't require a license in the US. Result: guns are easier to get in the US;

And an activity that cannot be licensed in the UK. Result: guns are easier to get in the US;

Overall result: Guns are easier to get in the US. And I don't even mean in general. I mean that is the result of the specific comparison you made.

What, exactly, did you intend for us to conclude, from the discovery that Texas has a permitting process for firearm use of a type that is not even allowed in the UK at all? You can't possibly have meant that in some cases it's easier to get a gun in the UK.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 12:35 PM   #245
This is The End
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,459
In 10 years the price and quality of 3D Printers will make this entire BS about "No way can someone with enough money acquire a gun on our streets!!"* entirely moot.

I suppose the UK will then have to ban sulfur, potassium nitrate, and charcoal...



*Always said by someone who has never actually been on the streets.
__________________
________________________
This is The End is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:01 PM   #246
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 18,757
Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
In 10 years the price and quality of 3D Printers will make this entire BS about "No way can someone with enough money acquire a gun on our streets!!"* entirely moot.

I suppose the UK will then have to ban sulfur, potassium nitrate, and charcoal...



*Always said by someone who has never actually been on the streets.
Maybe. However that is not what you were originally claiming.

The fact is that currently, UK criminal gangs seem to be having difficulty in getting hold of guns - otherwise they'd get rid of them once they've been used in a crime, and they'd not use reconditioned starting pistols as their main guns.

You seem to think that you'd be more able to get hold of guns on the UK black market than UK criminals. Now obviously a lot of criminals are stupid, but even so, I would like to see your reasoning.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:15 PM   #247
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Maybe. However that is not what you were originally claiming.

The fact is that currently, UK criminal gangs seem to be having difficulty in getting hold of guns - otherwise they'd get rid of them once they've been used in a crime, and they'd not use reconditioned starting pistols as their main guns.

You seem to think that you'd be more able to get hold of guns on the UK black market than UK criminals. Now obviously a lot of criminals are stupid, but even so, I would like to see your reasoning.
The terrorist Khalid Masood who committed the attack in Westminster last year must have been kicking himself as he stared down the Police officer's gun barrel that he hadn't thought to pop into a pub on the way from Birmingham to London and pick up a gun or two. Would have probably been cheaper than hiring the van!
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:15 PM   #248
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,055
So how much experience does This Is The End have of 'UK streets'?
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:16 PM   #249
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 23,769
Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
.........I suppose the UK will then have to ban sulfur, potassium nitrate, and charcoal....
In a sense we already have. As soon as you mix them together in quantities over 100g (4 oz) you are breaking the law, and as soon as you place them into any sort of tube you are making an explosive device and breaking the law. However, this all becomes legal with an appropriate license. As you can imagine, the license application is unlikely to have a category "homemade ammunition" or "improvised explosive device".
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:16 PM   #250
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
Originally Posted by baron View Post
So how much experience does This Is The End have of 'UK streets'?
Maybe he's watched "The Krays"?
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:17 PM   #251
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 23,769
Originally Posted by baron View Post
So how much experience does This Is The End have of 'UK streets'?


You need to ask?
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:21 PM   #252
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,055
I just fancied a laugh, I think we all know the answer.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:24 PM   #253
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,031
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You weren't wrong to think commentary is okay. You were wrong in the specifics of the commentary itself.

You compared an activity that doesn't require a license in the US. Result: guns are easier to get in the US;

And an activity that cannot be licensed in the UK. Result: guns are easier to get in the US;

Overall result: Guns are easier to get in the US. And I don't even mean in general. I mean that is the result of the specific comparison you made.

What, exactly, did you intend for us to conclude, from the discovery that Texas has a permitting process for firearm use of a type that is not even allowed in the UK at all? You can't possibly have meant that in some cases it's easier to get a gun in the UK.
It is easier to get a UK firearms licence than a Texan LTC. That is all I said.

I also proved it by pointing to all the regulations needed to be complied with to get the LTC and that a LTC means giving fingerprints and going on a mandatory training course, neither of which are required to get a UK firearms licence.

The conclusion is that getting a UK firearms licence is not as difficult as some think it is.

If you don't understand that, or create strawmen out of what I said, I am not interested in discussing this point with you.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:24 PM   #254
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,055
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Maybe he's watched "The Krays"?
That could explain it.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:25 PM   #255
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
I think it's very telling that the British posters (myself included) here who on a politics thread would be irrevocably divided are all in complete agreement on this subject.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:25 PM   #256
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by baron View Post
So how much experience does This Is The End have of 'UK streets'?
To an order of magnitude, probably about as much experience as anyone else here.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:27 PM   #257
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 23,499
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Maybe he's watched "The Krays"?
That could explain it.

"Guv'nor, I need a shooter. Sharpish"
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:28 PM   #258
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 18,757
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To an order of magnitude, probably about as much experience as anyone else here.
Probably true.

ETA: Probably not - I believe that Nessie used to be a police officer?
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:29 PM   #259
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,055
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To an order of magnitude, probably about as much experience as anyone else here.
That's a very generous assessment (as it assumes his experience is none-zero).
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:35 PM   #260
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's a very generous assessment (as it assumes his experience is none-zero).
It also assumes that all of us have lived fairly boring lives.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:36 PM   #261
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
It is easier to get a UK firearms licence than a Texan LTC. That is all I said.

I also proved it by pointing to all the regulations needed to be complied with to get the LTC and that a LTC means giving fingerprints and going on a mandatory training course, neither of which are required to get a UK firearms licence.

The conclusion is that getting a UK firearms licence is not as difficult as some think it is.

If you don't understand that, or create strawmen out of what I said, I am not interested in discussing this point with you.
Do you understand that you can legally buy a multi shot pistol in Texas, without needing an LTC permit?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:43 PM   #262
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's a very generous assessment (as it assumes his experience is none-zero).
Actually, if you multiply my assessment by the number of forum Members, you'll see that my assessment is substantially ungenerous.
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It also assumes that all of us have lived fairly boring lives.
People who live sufficiently exciting lives don't have the time or the inclination to bother with regular Internet slapfights.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:47 PM   #263
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
It is easier to get a UK firearms licence than a Texan LTC. That is all I said.
So it was an indication of the difficulty level of satisfying the licencing requirements and not intended as any kind of like for like comparison of the access to guns in the two countries or granted by the respective licences? Great.

Perhaps you'll be allowed to move on now.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:48 PM   #264
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 23,769
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you understand that you can legally buy a multi shot pistol in Texas, without needing an LTC permit?
And do you understand yet that you can't legally buy a pistol at all here?

(Nessie's silly hair-splitting aside. No-one buys muzzle loading single shot weapons).
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:49 PM   #265
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,031
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you understand that you can legally buy a multi shot pistol in Texas, without needing an LTC permit?
Yes.

Do you understand that someone who wants a Texan LTC permit has to do more than someone who wants a UK firearms licence?
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:49 PM   #266
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,055
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It also assumes that all of us have lived fairly boring lives.
Indeed. I've resisted the urge to post a few anecdotes from many years spent frequenting the very worst places in the British Isles with some, how should I say, 'characters', although the pertinent fact is that in all this time I never once saw a gun or, aside from a single time, heard of anybody using a gun. Aside from that, pretty much everything else happened.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:49 PM   #267
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
People who live sufficiently exciting lives don't have the time or the inclination to bother with regular Internet slapfights.
The claim is that simply going in a pub is sufficiently exciting.

Oh, and peoples lives change.

__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:51 PM   #268
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,031
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
So it was an indication of the difficulty level of satisfying the licencing requirements and not intended as any kind of like for like comparison of the access to guns in the two countries or granted by the respective licences? Great.
Yes, which I thought would give people a better understanding of the relative ease at which people can get a firearms licence in the UK. It is no where near as difficult as some imagine.

Quote:
Perhaps you'll be allowed to move on now.
I hope so.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:52 PM   #269
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 23,769
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Indeed. I've resisted the urge to post a few anecdotes from many years spent frequenting the very worst places in the British Isles with some, how should I say, 'characters', although the pertinent fact is that in all this time I never once saw a gun or, aside from a single time, heard of anybody using a gun. Aside from that, pretty much everything else happened.
Liverpool and Glasgow. Sheesh......
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 01:57 PM   #270
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,055
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Liverpool and Glasgow. Sheesh......
I should probably have said England and Wales, as opposed to the British Isles. I haven't spent much time in Scotland at all, and never visited Glasgow; now I'll never know what I missed.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:00 PM   #271
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,031
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
And do you understand yet that you can't legally buy a pistol at all here?

(Nessie's silly hair-splitting aside. No-one buys muzzle loading single shot weapons).
Sorry! People do buy such pistols, indeed they have quite a cult following of enthusiasts. There is a range near me where there are regular shoots of such weapons and competitions. The competitions are for who is the best shot and who can load and fire their weapon the quickest.

Sometimes they will also do public demonstrations where they also dress up as Napoleonic soldiers or cowboys and do quick draws. They often involve just firing the gunpowder with no shot, so people hear a bang and see smoke, but there is no risk of being hit by anything.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:06 PM   #272
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,031
Originally Posted by baron View Post
I should probably have said England and Wales, as opposed to the British Isles. I haven't spent much time in Scotland at all, and never visited Glasgow; now I'll never know what I missed.
The worst parts are not in Glasgow. Try Paisley, where an area called Ferguslie Park is, under a number of indexes, the most deprived part of Scotland. It looks unassuming enough now, after many older houses were knocked down and replaced with more modern ones, but the people are just the same.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:08 PM   #273
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Indeed. I've resisted the urge to post a few anecdotes from many years spent frequenting the very worst places in the British Isles with some, how should I say, 'characters', although the pertinent fact is that in all this time I never once saw a gun or, aside from a single time, heard of anybody using a gun. Aside from that, pretty much everything else happened.
Yeah, I've lived reasonably quiet life myself, but I've known enough people (some of them very well) who were also... characters.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:23 PM   #274
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
And do you understand yet that you can't legally buy a pistol at all here?
Of course. That's why Nessie's comparison makes no sense, and contradicts her conclusion.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:26 PM   #275
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Yes.

Do you understand that someone who wants a Texan LTC permit has to do more than someone who wants a UK firearms licence?
Yes.

Do you understand that someone with a Texan LTC gets far more privileges than someone with a UK firearms license--including priveleges that are not permitted in the UK at all?

And do you understand that if you compare the privileges of the two licenses, it's clear that Texans have it much easier than UKians?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:29 PM   #276
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,077
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Yes, which I thought would give people a better understanding of the relative ease at which people can get a firearms licence in the UK. It is no where near as difficult as some imagine.
Still more difficult than getting an equivalent license in Texas.

In Texas you can buy a gun without having to get any kind of license at all. Relative ease: Texas.

In the UK you can't get a license to carry a loaded pistol in public at all. Relative ease: Texas.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:33 PM   #277
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,031
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yes.

Do you understand that someone with a Texan LTC gets far more privileges than someone with a UK firearms license--including priveleges that are not permitted in the UK at all?

And do you understand that if you compare the privileges of the two licenses, it's clear that Texans have it much easier than UKians?
Yes.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:35 PM   #278
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,031
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course. That's why Nessie's comparison makes no sense, and contradicts her conclusion.
You can legally buy certain pistols here and that has nothing to do with the comparison I was making. Indeed all the other comparisons you are making have nothing to do with the one I made and as predicted, you are making lots of strawmen.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 02:57 PM   #279
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,252
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Still more difficult than getting an equivalent license in Texas.

In Texas you can buy a gun without having to get any kind of license at all. Relative ease: Texas.

In the UK you can't get a license to carry a loaded pistol in public at all. Relative ease: Texas.
There is no direct comparison, as the UK has a prohibition on conceal carry. Therefore we can just compare any two dissimilar conditions:

In Texas, purchasing a pistol requires filing a form 4473 with an FBI background check.

In the UK, purchasing a water pistol requires no paperwork.

Checkmate!
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2018, 03:16 PM   #280
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,333
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
So it was an indication of the difficulty level of satisfying the licencing requirements and not intended as any kind of like for like comparison of the access to guns in the two countries or granted by the respective licences? Great.

Perhaps you'll be allowed to move on now.
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Yes, which I thought would give people a better understanding of the relative ease at which people can get a firearms licence in the UK. It is no where near as difficult as some imagine.



I hope so.
So much for that...
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:19 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.