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Tags atheists , Lawrence Krauss , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 8th March 2018, 12:35 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Where is this?
I linked to the quote a few posts up.
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Old 8th March 2018, 01:53 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I linked to the quote a few posts up.
You may want to quote it, because I can't find anything resembling stuff you described.
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Old 8th March 2018, 01:59 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
You may want to quote it, because I can't find anything resembling stuff you described.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=395
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:22 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I'm sorry but

I have no idea if your accusations are true or not of 100s of people out to get people with some making death and rape threats.

Mainly because that link is just to another article of a person making the same accusations as you which again has no links or quotes to people making the threats.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:33 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/elevato...st-harassment/



Honestly, that would mess me up, bad.

I was a teen when the internet was new to the masses, and my generation was always told "Never, ever put ANY personal details about yourself online", and I've always had that in the back of my mind. The fear at the time was of serial killers finding people, but being internet stalked for the purposes of public humiliation has proven to be the most valid reason for staying as private as possible, it seems.
Seen it happen enough times that I'm also aware of user-created tools to auto-block said harrassers (oddly, Twitter and Facebook often don't seem to consider "I'm going to hunt you down and rape you" to be harassment or threatening), as well as several other recipients eg. Jemelle Hill, Anita Saarkesian, the above named, Elon James White, Leslie Jones, anyone "called out" by certain youtube idiots, and so forth of that sort of crap.

Or at least, I know how to set up blockbots on Twitter - I try to never use Facebook.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:30 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Oh, lok that idiocy again. So, nothing then. Move along.

Kindly, keep amount of BS to minimum. Thanks.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:32 AM   #407
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I suggest people in glass houses do not throw stones. It is never good idea.

ETA: Also "live by sword, die by sword".
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Old 8th March 2018, 06:27 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/elevato...st-harassment/

Honestly, that would mess me up, bad.
Amazing that Watson didn't get the iPTSD, despite all of that internet hate. She does have quite the impressive list of haters, though, in all seriousness.

Not that any of her well-documented hate makes Storify into a tool of harassment, mind you. It's a total non-sequitur to leap from "albums about how I should be murdered" to the harmless act of collating public tweets.
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Old 8th March 2018, 06:32 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Expect "Republican" is actually a political party and not a pejorative.
I see you're new to these political discussions.

But some SJWs label themselves as such. The point is that despite _your_ perception that it's a pejorative, it's a term that describes a group of people who share certain beliefs and methods, so it's still useful. If you use "Republicans" as a pejorative it doesn't change the fact that you're talking about a group of people that you can identify.
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Old 8th March 2018, 09:19 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
I suggest people in glass houses do not throw stones. It is never good idea.

ETA: Also "live by sword, die by sword".
Who's throwing metaphorical stones?
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Old 8th March 2018, 09:56 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Who's throwing metaphorical stones?
I'm hoping I'm very wrong, but it appears that there is supposed to be some moral equivalency between rape, torture, and death threats sent because someone spoke out about their being sexually harassed, assaulted, or creeped on, to shaming and ostracizing people for perpetrating (or being accused of?) sexual harassment, assault, or being a creep.

For...reasons?
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Old 8th March 2018, 09:59 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I'm hoping I'm very wrong, but it appears that there is supposed to be some moral equivalency between rape, torture, and death threats...
Out of curiosity, have you actually seen any of the (supposedly numerous) threats directed at the woman in question [ETA: Hensley] here? They are surprisingly difficult to find, possibly because social media admins eventually cleaned them up.
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Old 8th March 2018, 10:18 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Amazing that Watson didn't get the iPTSD, despite all of that internet hate.
I've gotten PTSD from things I shouldn't have before, and not gotten it from things I "should" have. Some people are more resilient to various things than others. I've looked into the predisposing factors before, and nobody really knows for sure what's going on with all that.

eta:
Rebecca says she did have to take anti-anxiety meds from it for a while. So...
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Old 8th March 2018, 10:21 AM   #414
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If people want to roll with assuming Rebecca is just lying about it all, not much I can do about that. Hell, even screenshots could be faked.
Believe whatever you want for your own personal reasons.
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Old 8th March 2018, 10:31 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
If people want to roll with assuming Rebecca is just lying about it all, not much I can do about that.
I wasn't referring to her; she isn't particularly relevant to this thread.

(To my knowledge, Watson has never accused Krauss of doing anything based on firsthand experience.)

Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Believe whatever you want for your own personal reasons.
So shall we all.
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Old 8th March 2018, 10:55 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I wasn't referring to her; she isn't particularly relevant to this thread.

(To my knowledge, Watson has never accused Krauss of doing anything based on firsthand experience.)



So shall we all.
I was talking to other people, not you.
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Old 8th March 2018, 11:04 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I was talking to other people, not you.
My bad
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:22 PM   #418
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FFRF severs ties:
https://twitter.com/ffrf/status/971866015163453444
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:27 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
well they are both awful, so....
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:55 PM   #420
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He's big news at the Daily Mail...

Doomsday Clock professor is put on paid leave after claims he forcibly kissed a woman he pinned to a hotel bed and groped another woman's leg at a bar in Iowa

Originally Posted by DailyMail
An Arizona State University physics professor, known for his work with the Doomsday Clock, has been suspended following allegations of sexual misconduct.

Professor Lawrence Krauss was put on paid leave pending a review of allegations first reported by Buzzfeed last month, the university said on Wednesday.

He is also prohibited during the probe from being present on the school's Phoenix-area campus.

Kraus issued a blistering denial of the allegations after the university disclosed his suspension...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...legations.html
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:37 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Out of curiosity, have you actually seen any of the (supposedly numerous) threats directed at the woman in question [ETA: Hensley] here? They are surprisingly difficult to find, possibly because social media admins eventually cleaned them up.
Ah, there's what I guess I'm missing, because I don't know who that is.

Which leaves the very large question of what the hell is actually being said then.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:43 PM   #422
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If you go back to the top of the thread, there is a link to a Buzzfeed News story which begins and ends with Hensley.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:48 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If you go back to the top of the thread, there is a link to a Buzzfeed News story which begins and ends with Hensley.
Oh, I had not memorized the names. No, I have not personally seen the threats directed at her, but I have seen vicious insults and barely veiled threats directed at 'Krauss' false accusers', which I guess is at her too then.

Still leaves what is actually being said unknown then...
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Old 8th March 2018, 11:19 PM   #424
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Here is a statement from Krauss, on PDF, of his denial of the charges in the Buzzfeed article.

http://archive.azcentral.com/persist...onse3_7_18.pdf

It's quite long and I haven't had time to read it yet, but I thought I should put it here as it is on-topic and others may be interested in reading it.
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Old 8th March 2018, 11:27 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I was talking to other people, not you.
Is it too much to ask for just a link to prove your claim of 100s of people ganging up on someone with some making death and rape threats to them?

I'm assuming you must have seen them
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:08 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Is it too much to ask for just a link to prove your claim of 100s of people ganging up on someone with some making death and rape threats to them?
I'm quite prepared to believe that people on the internet, women in particular, are the recipients of some quite vile and threatening messages.


What is not so clear is that those messages came from skeptics, as was alleged at the time, nor that their existence meant that other criticisms of the recipient were not valid.
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Old 9th March 2018, 04:31 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I see you're new to these political discussions.

But some SJWs label themselves as such. The point is that despite _your_ perception that it's a pejorative, it's a term that describes a group of people who share certain beliefs and methods, so it's still useful. If you use "Republicans" as a pejorative it doesn't change the fact that you're talking about a group of people that you can identify.
Republicans pre-1980, republickers post 1980. Not the same goals, not the same actions, mostly not the same supporters. Republicans pre-1980 frequently worked to do the right things, republickers post 1980 sold their souls to the religious right things. Big and very bad change.
And, yes there are still real (pre-1980) Republicans but not enough and not in real power positions.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:34 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I'm quite prepared to believe that people on the internet, women in particular, are the recipients of some quite vile and threatening messages.


What is not so clear is that those messages came from skeptics, as was alleged at the time, nor that their existence meant that other criticisms of the recipient were not valid.
I believe men are more likely the recipient of threats, particularly of violence, whereas women are more likely the recipient of sexual messages and stalking. There's a pew poll on this, which I think is the one below (in a bit of a rush)

http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/2...ne-harassment/
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:57 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post


What is not so clear is that those messages came from skeptics, as was alleged at the time, nor that their existence meant that other criticisms of the recipient were not valid.
Oh, absolutely.

I don't think anyone really knows who most of those people even were (are?), or how the "drama" (as it started out) went so viral. I mean, at one point Melody was written up in the Daily Mail.

And no one is above reproach simply by virtue of victim-hood.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:04 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's a label, not a dodge. It's like saying "Republicans". Does the label mean you're avoiding the issue?
I disagree. It's a label that is used to dodge the issue. And it is not like "Republicans". That is not a label, it is a valid, well recognized and neutral name of a major organization. SJW is none of those.

SJW is used as a derogatory label meant to demean those who they are talking about. Such usage is diversionary.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:22 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I disagree. It's a label that is used to dodge the issue. And it is not like "Republicans". That is not a label, it is a valid, well recognized and neutral name of a major organization. SJW is none of those.

SJW is used as a derogatory label meant to demean those who they are talking about. Such usage is diversionary.
There was a time when it was a phrase used sparingly as a term of flattery in social justice "boots on the ground" activism circles (back before social justice online "activism" became some trendy emo thing)... but yeah, those days are long gone.

Now it means "that obnoxious fool prone to telling people they're an active tool of white supremacy and patriarchy because they defend communicating using the dictionary definitions of the word racism, or believe there is almost certainly something going on with evolutionary psychology, however in its infancy the science still is" etc.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:22 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I disagree.
Obviously, since I just disagreed with you!

Quote:
It's a label that is used to dodge the issue.
You're simply repeating your claim, SezMe. Repeating a claim does not make it true.

Quote:
And it is not like "Republicans". That is not a label, it is a valid, well recognized and neutral name of a major organization. SJW is none of those.
How well recognised must the group be in order for it to pass muster with you? The point I'm trying to make is that the label, derogatory or not, is not, in and of itself, a way to avoid the issue. If I say "SJWs want to criminalise X", I'm discussing the issue AND using the label.

Quote:
SJW is used as a derogatory label meant to demean those who they are talking about.
And that's irrelevant. "Nazi" is a derogatory term and yet it's used all the time as part of a discussion.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:58 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I don't think anyone really knows who most of those people even were (are?), or how the "drama" (as it started out) went so viral. I mean, at one point Melody was written up in the Daily Mail.
On step in the process (which I personally recall seeing but cannot now prove) is that she went viral in private FB groups for veterans, after broadcasting that she has "PTSD from Twitter, blogs, horrible videos, cyberstalking" in late 2013. Perhaps even earlier than that, given the circulation of the Daily Dot article.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:00 AM   #434
Jerrymander
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Something makes me a little suspicious regarding Krauss' response.

Quote:
ASU dismissed the complaint and found it to be defamatory, according to Krauss's statement Wednesday. An ASU official told The State Press in February that the University was unable to contact or confirm the identity of the individual who Thomson said Krauss groped.
http://www.statepress.com/article/20...ct-allegations

This sounds similar to claims in the Buzzfeed article

Quote:
The New College of the Humanities did not investigate the complaint; the other two schools did. In an email, Arizona State informed Thomson that it “did not find a violation of university policy.” And the Australian National University wrote to her noting that the photo, by itself, did not prove physical contact, and that officials could not reach the woman, whose identity was not disclosed in the complaint.

“Based on the material available to the University, we do not have sufficient evidence to substantiate the allegations,” ANU’s letter said.

But that’s not how Krauss described the schools’ findings. He told BuzzFeed News that “both Universities independently concluded that the report was unsubstantiated and fabricated with malicious intent.”

Both schools rejected this characterization.

“ASU did not find the complaint ‘fabricated with malicious intent,’ and did not make any such statement,” Arizona State told BuzzFeed News. “The characterisation by Professor Krauss that The Australian National University (ANU) found the complaint to be ‘unsubstantiated and fabricated with malicious intent’ is false,” ANU said.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:17 AM   #435
kellyb
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
On step in the process (which I personally recall seeing but cannot now prove) is that she went viral in private FB groups for veterans, after broadcasting that she has "PTSD from Twitter, blogs, horrible videos, cyberstalking" in late 2013. Perhaps even earlier than that, given the circulation of the Daily Dot article.
That sounds extremely plausible, especially in light of what I know about the dark side of "military culture".

There's also the venn diagram overlap between atheism and skepticism. Most atheists (sadly) are not skeptics at all, in my personal experience (although most skeptics are atheists according to the more liberal interpretations/usages of the word.) So, there's going to be a certain degree of cross communication (err...cross-contamination? lol) between the crowd that's only skeptical about deities and really into talking and writing about that, and skeptics.

I'm pretty sure that's what happened on the "SJW" side, too, with the ftb commentariat, atheism+ people, etc and so on.
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Last edited by kellyb; 9th March 2018 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:23 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Something makes me a little suspicious regarding Krauss' response.



http://www.statepress.com/article/20...ct-allegations

This sounds similar to claims in the Buzzfeed article
Maybe. In his recent statement, he seems to have dropped the claim of malicious intent, but argues that there is no support for the claim:

Quote:
As BuzzFeed reported, a complaint was submitted to
three universities by someone claiming to have witnessed me touch the breast of an
unidentified woman during the taking of a selfie-photograph. The photograph did not
itself did not show this, and the woman in the photograph has not submitted a
complaint. Each university considered it independently; and each university concluded
the claim was unsubstantiated. In response to BuzzFeed’s request for more
information, ASU refused on the basis that to do so would further spread “defamatory
statements.” BuzzFeed was also provided with findings of the Australian National
University report dismissing the claim, which clearly revealed multiple inconsistencies
in the emerging story of the claimant. Rather than reporting honestly on the doubts
arising from these investigations about the validity of the allegations, the reporters
instead focused their reporting on the words I used to try to bring those doubts to
their attention.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:48 AM   #437
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Krauss claim that the Universities concluded that the reports were "unsubstantiated" seems like disingenuous wording. ASU told both Buzzfeed and the State Press that they unable to contact the women in the photo to confirm what happened (as the photo itself seemed unclear).

Last edited by Jerrymander; 9th March 2018 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:52 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Krauss claim that the Universities concluded that the reports were "unsubstantiated" seems like disingenuous wording. The ASU told both Buzzfeed and the State Press that they unable to contact the women in the photo to confirm what happened.
I find that photo incident to be the most troubling aspect of this entire fiasco. Three named eyewitnesses (Marsh, Thomson, & Alabaster) went on record with Buzzfeed, but the actual victim is in the wind.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:03 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Krauss claim that the Universities concluded that the reports were "unsubstantiated" seems like disingenuous wording. ASU told both Buzzfeed and the State Press that they unable to contact the women in the photo to confirm what happened (as the photo itself seemed unclear).
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I find that photo incident to be the most troubling aspect of this entire fiasco. Three named eyewitnesses (Marsh, Thomson, & Alabaster) went on record with Buzzfeed, but the actual victim is in the wind.
I also find it odd that he hasn’t said, unless I missed it, that he didn’t do a boob grab, only that she hasn’t complained and the picture doesn’t show that.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:29 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I find that photo incident to be the most troubling aspect of this entire fiasco. Three named eyewitnesses (Marsh, Thomson, & Alabaster) went on record with Buzzfeed, but the actual victim is in the wind.
Also the "I was actually holding my hand up to cover the flash" excuse is about as strong as "The dog ate my homework."
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