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Tags atheists , Lawrence Krauss , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 24th February 2018, 01:39 PM   #41
qayak
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Kraus's reaction now is key: with an apology with sufficient remorse he could get out of this quite intact, especially with his fans of course.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Old 24th February 2018, 02:47 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Please tell me the Hensley in question isn't Melody
OK I won't.
But it is, actually.
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Old 24th February 2018, 02:51 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Uh oh

There appears to be a non believer in the skeptical community.

https://www.skepticink.com/avant-gar.../02/23/krauss/
Wow, that blog entry doesn't hold back.
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Old 24th February 2018, 05:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
I do know, though, that these kinds of publications only do a disservice to any real victims there might be
I love it when people dismiss the claims of alleged victims by fronting a higher concern for "real victims" who they contend are done a "disservice" whenever anyone pays attention to a less-severe claim. Unless this is a veiled confession (i.e., implying the "disservice" is that I, the speaker/author, am less likely to take all victims seriously when I see public awareness given to a claim I deem unworthy of it), I find this tactic condescending and silly, if not intellectually dishonest. As a member over time of a few different sexual abuse survivor support communities, where discussion has at times been very frank indeed, I have never once seen someone who purports to be a severe violent rape victim complaining that women disclosing and being angry about "mere" gropes or inappropriate behavior somehow devalues the seriousness of what happened to them.

"I feel like what happened to me is trivial when I see some of the other stories here" is a common refrain of new entrants who have abuse to disclose that is less than a violent assault, but one of the ways all the communities I've been a part of are alike is that they invariably reassure new members that is not the case. "Other people have been through far worse, so why are you even complaining?" is recognized as a common internally- and externally-imposed guilt trip that keeps people from talking about what has happened to them.
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Old 24th February 2018, 06:34 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I love it when people dismiss the claims of alleged victims by fronting a higher concern for "real victims" who they contend are done a "disservice" whenever anyone pays attention to a less-severe claim. Unless this is a veiled confession (i.e., implying the "disservice" is that I, the speaker/author, am less likely to take all victims seriously when I see public awareness given to a claim I deem unworthy of it), I find this tactic condescending and silly, if not intellectually dishonest. As a member over time of a few different sexual abuse survivor support communities, where discussion has at times been very frank indeed, I have never once seen someone who purports to be a severe violent rape victim complaining that women disclosing and being angry about "mere" gropes or inappropriate behavior somehow devalues the seriousness of what happened to them.

"I feel like what happened to me is trivial when I see some of the other stories here" is a common refrain of new entrants who have abuse to disclose that is less than a violent assault, but one of the ways all the communities I've been a part of are alike is that they invariably reassure new members that is not the case. "Other people have been through far worse, so why are you even complaining?" is recognized as a common internally- and externally-imposed guilt trip that keeps people from talking about what has happened to them.
I have no idea what's true or not but I think his point wasn't that these are "less severe claims" but rather they are unsupported claims by questionable sources. Again, I don't know how true that is and there's too much to wade through for me to care about
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Old 24th February 2018, 06:36 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Folks may not *like* Watson, but the simple fact is that the obsession with "SJWs" is a prime reason why the atheist/skeptic community is infested with sexual harassers and Nazi fetishists today.
Can you expand on this? I don't really understand the inference you're making. I also disagree completely that there is an "infestation" of nazi fetishists.
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:37 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
Can you expand on this? I don't really understand the inference you're making. I also disagree completely that there is an "infestation" of nazi fetishists.
I suppose I could point to the giant mess that has become Mythcon or youtube "skepticism" and the like - but to be honest, one need only look to threads on this forum on the Charlottesville neo-nazi attack, or the Ferguson police attack, to find several "skeptics" openly posting apologetics or support for violent racism.
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Old 25th February 2018, 08:31 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Hey, they used my photo!
AND mentioned your name (here)!!
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Old 25th February 2018, 09:29 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I suppose I could point to the giant mess that has become Mythcon or youtube "skepticism" and the like - but to be honest, one need only look to threads on this forum on the Charlottesville neo-nazi attack, or the Ferguson police attack, to find several "skeptics" openly posting apologetics or support for violent racism.
I'd love to see any quote you can find by anyone on this forum supporting violent racism.
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Old 25th February 2018, 10:35 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I suppose I could point to the giant mess that has become Mythcon or youtube "skepticism" and the like - but to be honest, one need only look to threads on this forum on the Charlottesville neo-nazi attack, or the Ferguson police attack, to find several "skeptics" openly posting apologetics or support for violent racism.
I don't read many threads but the only thing even remotely close to what you're suggesting is commonplace that I've seen on this board is a white nationalist.
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Old 25th February 2018, 10:48 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Uh oh

There appears to be a non believer in the skeptical community.

https://www.skepticink.com/avant-gar.../02/23/krauss/
Can someone translate this into English for me?
Quote:
I don’t know if Krauss or any other prominent skeptic has gone too far or even crossed the line of what is legal. I do know, though, that these kinds of publications only do a disservice to any real victims there might be: the best way to help the victims is to not instrumentalize their tragedy; and from the looks of it, Aldhous, Ghorayshi, and Hughes did exactly that.
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Old 25th February 2018, 11:05 AM   #52
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"Don't publicly talk about what happened in a way or by a channel that gets too widespread coverage" I guess.
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Old 25th February 2018, 11:15 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I suppose I could point to the giant mess that has become Mythcon or youtube "skepticism" and the like - but to be honest, one need only look to threads on this forum on the Charlottesville neo-nazi attack, or the Ferguson police attack, to find several "skeptics" openly posting apologetics or support for violent racism.
There is no test to ensure members of this forum actually apply the principles of skepticism to real life.
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Old 25th February 2018, 11:29 AM   #54
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That Mythcon thing looks hilarious, wish I'd been there.


Top 10 Savage Moments Sargon Of Akkad Vs Thomas Smith #Mythcon


No sign of any nazi fetishists though.
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Old 25th February 2018, 11:36 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
"Don't publicly talk about what happened in a way or by a channel that gets too widespread coverage" I guess.
Sounded about like that to me - but again, I've heard as much from multiple sources beforehand, and...to be blunt, there's a reason why this movement is overwhelmingly white and male, at least in the US (again, this is an important caveat).

Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
There is no test to ensure members of this forum actually apply the principles of skepticism to real life.
Agreed - and we all apply such principles selectively in any event.

Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
I don't read many threads but the only thing even remotely close to what you're suggesting is commonplace that I've seen on this board is a white nationalist.
This is running rather far afield - but I can think of multiple such people - Magz and the Tank guy - both of whom were self-described as such. I can also point out the strident defense of women-bashing causes such as GamerGate (and yes, it's been well-documented that this was little more than such). It's no shock that many supposed "skeptics" from that community ended up supporting clowns like Toupee Fiasco who are now blaming video games for school shootings, installing young earth creationists to education positions and climate change deniers to key environmental positions, and so forth.

But, you know, Depression Quest was let onto Steam Greenlight, which is surely far worse than the usual flood of garbage from pseudo-developers like Digital Homicide (to pick the most infamous example).
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Old 25th February 2018, 02:02 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I'd love to see any quote you can find by anyone on this forum supporting violent racism.
This
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Old 25th February 2018, 02:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I'd love to see any quote you can find by anyone on this forum supporting violent racism.
Hell, I don't think even our resident open racist has posted anything supporting violent racism.
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Old 25th February 2018, 03:14 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
There is no test to ensure members of this forum actually apply the principles of skepticism to real life.
An xtian friend concerned about me getting into heaven knows I do. She worries about it. I do not.
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Old 25th February 2018, 04:10 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The context reported was that he prefaced it with an argument that he shouldn't have to pay for maternity leave. So, I'm not sure. It does seem like the most benign incident mentioned in the article.
Thanks. At best he's a jerk. Shouldn't atheists promote people who have a more wholesome image? Remember how the Blacks had Bill Cos-- oh.
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Old 25th February 2018, 04:50 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Thanks. At best he's a jerk. .
Discrimination on the basis of family status is not merely being a jerk, it is a violation of EEO policy. At our institution (similarly, a public institution although in a different state) we are not allowed to initiate discussion of marital or family status with potential employees.
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Old 25th February 2018, 05:22 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Thanks. At best he's a jerk. Shouldn't atheists promote people who have a more wholesome image? Remember how the Blacks had Bill Cos-- oh.
I don't care about the "image" of atheism or skepticism. I just know I wouldn't want to be around the dude myself, or probably even be friends with his friends, depending on the nature of their friendship.
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:19 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post



This is running rather far afield - but I can think of multiple such people - Magz and the Tank guy - both of whom were self-described as such. I can also point out the strident defense of women-bashing causes such as GamerGate (and yes, it's been well-documented that this was little more than such). It's no shock that many supposed "skeptics" from that community ended up supporting clowns like Toupee Fiasco who are now blaming video games for school shootings, installing young earth creationists to education positions and climate change deniers to key environmental positions, and so forth.
The people you are talking about are not skeptics. Remember that forums such as these don’t only attract skeptics but also woo slingers, conspiracy theorists, evangelists for some faith or another and Holocaust deniers. They come here specifically to give their views a work-out. It doesn’t mean that their views are embraced by skeptics. Quite the opposite, of course.
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Old 26th February 2018, 12:17 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Uh oh

There appears to be a non believer in the skeptical community.

https://www.skepticink.com/avant-gar.../02/23/krauss/
I see nothing but a page that never loads. Can't be my internet connection because I tried loading other pages and they worked just fine.
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Old 26th February 2018, 12:28 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That Mythcon thing looks hilarious, wish I'd been there.


Top 10 Savage Moments Sargon Of Akkad Vs Thomas Smith #Mythcon


No sign of any nazi fetishists though.
I've never heard of "Mythcon" before. Is this a skeptical thing?

http://www.mythsoc.org/mythcon.htm

Quote:
The Mythopoeic Society’s annual conference, popularly called "Mythcon," has historically been held at a college or university campus in late July or early August. Each conference is constructed around a theme related to Inklings studies and/or fantastic and mythic literature. Each conference also features an author and a scholar guest of honor. Papers, panel discussions, readings, entertainment, an art show, a dealers’ room, and other activities fill the four-day event. Another Mythcon highlight is our annual banquet, after which the Mythopoeic Awards are presented. A small (usually 100-200 people) size and intimate setting makes Mythcon an excellent venue for meeting people with common interests. You may see the full history and individual conference pages by visiting our Mythcon History page.

The Mythopoeic Society has always encouraged scholarship in mythopoeic and Inklings studies by providing a venue in which scholars, new and old, may present papers which may in turn be considered for publication in Mythlore, assisting scholars in need of financial aid to attend Mythcon, and recognizing student scholars with the Alexei Kondratiev Award.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythopoeia

Quote:
Mythopoeia (also mythopoesis, after Hellenistic Greek μυθοποιία, μυθοποίησις "myth-making") is a narrative genre in modern literature and film where a fictional or artificial mythology is created by the writer of prose or other fiction. This meaning of the word mythopoeia follows its use by J. R. R. Tolkien in the 1930s.[citation needed] The authors in this genre integrate traditional mythological themes and archetypes into fiction


OK, but what does that have to do with skepticism?
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Old 26th February 2018, 01:15 AM   #65
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The skepticink page loaded for me just fine using the link I posted. I hecked it 10 seconds ago, don't know what the problem is.

Mythcon......well you need to go a little bit beyond the first Google result as it looks like there are two events with the same name.

Second Google hit
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Old 26th February 2018, 01:29 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That Mythcon thing looks hilarious, wish I'd been there.


Top 10 Savage Moments Sargon Of Akkad Vs Thomas Smith #Mythcon


No sign of any nazi fetishists though.
Well, I suppose it could be, if you're the sort of person who thinks that berating a woman for being sexually assaulted is "funny".

I mean, I'd consider this to be "snitching on yourself", but do you.
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Old 26th February 2018, 01:44 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, I suppose it could be, if you're the sort of person who thinks that berating a woman for being sexually assaulted is "funny".

I mean, I'd consider this to be "snitching on yourself", but do you.
What's that got to do with nazi fetishists ?

Mythcon invited some speakers and rather than simply refuse to attend the online social justice mob threw a wobbler and....well read the gofundme link and get the victims own words.
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Old 26th February 2018, 02:18 AM   #68
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Yeah, the blog link still doesn't work for me. I don't know what's going on. Is it country-restricted? Oh well.
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Old 26th February 2018, 02:49 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Wow, that blog entry doesn't hold back.

I kinda gave up on it when I got to;
"Gamergate —the movement to bring ethics to gaming journalism"
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Old 26th February 2018, 06:51 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Yeah, the blog link still doesn't work for me. I don't know what's going on. Is it country-restricted? Oh well.
Try this:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us
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Old 26th February 2018, 09:37 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The people you are talking about are not skeptics. Remember that forums such as these don’t only attract skeptics but also woo slingers, conspiracy theorists, evangelists for some faith or another and Holocaust deniers. They come here specifically to give their views a work-out. It doesn’t mean that their views are embraced by skeptics. Quite the opposite, of course.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the people he is referring to have not advocated violent racism. At least, I don't think they have, but it's up to mumbles to support his claim. Naming names is not the same as producing evidence.
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Old 26th February 2018, 02:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The people you are talking about are not skeptics. Remember that forums such as these don’t only attract skeptics but also woo slingers, conspiracy theorists, evangelists for some faith or another and Holocaust deniers. They come here specifically to give their views a work-out. It doesn’t mean that their views are embraced by skeptics. Quite the opposite, of course.
You coulda just said nutjobs and had it correct!!!
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Old 26th February 2018, 02:12 PM   #73
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The most serious accusations in that Buzzfeed article come from someone who suffers chronic PTSD from hostile online interactions with people whom she referred to as "gender terrorists" on 9/11/2015.

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Last edited by zooterkin; 26th February 2018 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Too large
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Old 26th February 2018, 07:31 PM   #74
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Your post just above is functionally unreadable..........
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Old 26th February 2018, 08:04 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Your post just above is functionally unreadable..........
My bad. Tapatalk makes this so easy.

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Old 26th February 2018, 08:48 PM   #76
SezMe
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Folks may not *like* Watson, but the simple fact is that the obsession with "SJWs" is a prime reason why the atheist/skeptic community is infested with sexual harassers and Nazi fetishists today.
Huh?? What obsession? And what is the relationship between that obsession and being infested with the types you mention?
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Old 26th February 2018, 09:07 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Hey, they used my photo!
Wow! You're a Krauss look-alike!
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Old 26th February 2018, 09:36 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Huh?? What obsession? And what is the relationship between that obsession and being infested with the types you mention?
See: the aforementioned Sargon of Akkad, Thunderfoot (although he eventually backed out of it), the Amazing Atheist, the foolish "anti-SJW" crap like elevatorgate and Gamergate, the embrace of violent racists/domestic abusers on many "skeptic forums" (including here regarding Ferguson, the murder of Trayvon Martin, and the overuse of the "thug" stereotype here).

As a partial list. Surprise! Now far too many people include folks like Milo whoever, Alex Jones, and Paul Joseph Watson in "skepticism".

ETA: I think that's the last time I'll be giving obvious examples in this thread.
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Old 27th February 2018, 12:36 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Discrimination on the basis of family status is not merely being a jerk, it is a violation of EEO policy. At our institution (similarly, a public institution although in a different state) we are not allowed to initiate discussion of marital or family status with potential employees.
'
Geez, settle down. He said he understands why people discriminated against young women, not that he would refuse to hire potential breeders. There's always some poindexter dressed like the CEO of pumpkin patch going on about rules, lawsuits, FERPA, and other acronyms.
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Old 27th February 2018, 06:43 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
See: the aforementioned Sargon of Akkad, Thunderfoot (although he eventually backed out of it), the Amazing Atheist, <snip>



ETA: I think that's the last time I'll be giving obvious examples in this thread.
So are these the people who you're labeling as "nazi fetishists" ?
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