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Tags atheists , Lawrence Krauss , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 28th February 2018, 09:51 AM   #161
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
He defends child molesters. If he can defend that, he will defend anything.
Krauss claimed Epstein was into 19-y.o.'s; you paraphrase his (likely contrafactual) defense in terms of child molestation.

No obvious bias showing here.
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Old 28th February 2018, 09:56 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Krauss claimed Epstein was into 19-y.o.'s; you paraphrase his (likely contrafactual) defense in terms of child molestation.
Epstein pleaded guilty to sex with underage girls.

Krauss denies he did it.

Who is contrafactual?
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Old 28th February 2018, 09:59 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Epstein pleaded guilty to sex with underage girls.

Krauss denies he did it.

Who is contrafactual?
Krauss, as I said.
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Old 28th February 2018, 10:12 AM   #164
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Pleading guilty doesn't mean you're guilty, any more than pleading innocent means you're innocent. Especially in the US court system, with its entrenched plea-bargain practices.

We can say that by pleading guilty, he made it easier for the state to meet the legal and constitutional standard for justifying state infringement on his rights. And we can say that by meeting the required standard, the state is treating him fairly under the law. And we can even say that because the state has met the required standard, justice has been served in some sense.

But we can say all of these things, and also say that the guilty plea is not consistent with other things we have observed, and that therefore we remain agnostic or even skeptical about the claim of guilt itself.

I say this not to defend Epstein (who may well be guilty of indefensible acts), nor to defend Krauss (who may well be intentionally ignoring other evidence of indefensible acts). I say this because I think it's a bad argument. Courtroom pleas by themselves don't trump other, contradictory observations. O.J. pleaded innocent, and was even acquitted. But we still get to say that l courtroom outcome isn't consistent with our other observations. And we still get to say that those other observations carry more weight with us.
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Old 28th February 2018, 10:23 AM   #165
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He pleaded guilty because he was "legally guilty" even according to Krauss, who said:

Quote:
He served time for something that was determined was inappropriate.
"determined was inappropriate" <<--- that's a euphemism for having sex with a 14 yo prostitute lured to him by a recruiter.
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Old 28th February 2018, 10:30 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
"determined was inappropriate" <<--- that's a euphemism for having sex with a 14 yo prostitute lured to him by a recruiter.
Yeah I hate it when people try to diminish wrongdoings by spinning things this way.
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Old 28th February 2018, 11:44 AM   #167
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I wonder if they'll release the photo of Krauss allegedly grabbing the woman's breast.
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:36 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Is Krauss' irrationality re: Epstein good (Bayesian) evidence of the claims made in the Buzzfeed hit piece?
Not that you are biased or anything, right?
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:39 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wow, you mean he was wrong about him? The monster!
C'mon, Belz....(the 4th dot is a period) You're not that blinkered.
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:41 PM   #170
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To be clear on what I mean by "hit piece" in this context...


Source
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:45 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What does "stanning" mean?
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:47 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
To be clear on what I mean by "hit piece" in this context...
I don't think that people were looking for a definition of a hit piece (and that is not a good explanation).

I think people want to know why you think it was a hit piece.

Because it does not appear to be
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:51 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I don't think that people were looking for a definition of a hit piece (and that is not a good explanation).

I think people want to know why you think it was a hit piece.
Did you catch the part about unwavering conviction that a particular target is uniquely worthy of injury and exposure?
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:54 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Did you catch the part about unwavering conviction that a particular target is uniquely worthy of injury and exposure?
Of course. Did you catch the part about #metoo being a massive ongoing movement that has resulted in the exposure of hundreds of abusers which makes Epstein's apologist anything but unique
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:56 PM   #175
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I suppose if you believe #metoo can do no wrong, then it's obviously not a hit piece.
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:57 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Did you catch the part about unwavering conviction that a particular target is uniquely worthy of injury and exposure?
In what way is Krauss like W in terms of being seen as "uniquely worthy of injury" because of "political bias" and "pre-set conviction"?
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:58 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suppose if you believe #metoo can do no wrong, then it's obviously not a hit piece.
Of course #metoo can be co-opted by people with vested interests and hidden agendas.
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:00 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suppose if you believe #metoo can do no wrong, then it's obviously not a hit piece.
That is what we call a strawman. What I explained was that Krauss was in no way unique, and I will add, substantially more deserving than some other people exposed during the movement.
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:07 PM   #179
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Krauss is among the most famous skeptics/science advocates in the U.S. (seems uniquely newsworthy to me) though it must be said that many of the men in that relatively small group have previously been accused of sexual misconduct or harassment, or at least sexism.
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:16 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Krauss is among the most famous skeptics/science advocates in the U.S. (seems uniquely newsworthy to me) though it must be said that many of the men in that relatively small group have previously been accused of sexual misconduct or harassment, or at least sexism.
that is not the point either. The point is what makes him unique when so many other abusers have been exposed?
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:29 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
that is not the point either. The point is what makes him unique when so many other abusers have been exposed?
I think the question is whether journalists (or their major sources) believe—with unwavering conviction—the subject of some given exposé is "uniquely worthy of injury or exposure."

So far, Buzzfeed News has addressed the skeptic movement just twice, laying out allegations against Michael Shermer and Lawrence Krauss. As skeptics, we are free to doubt or accept the claims made in these write-ups, based on our own assessment of the underlying sources and the quality of the reportage.
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:34 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suppose if you believe #metoo can do no wrong, then it's obviously not a hit piece.
You know who is not a fan of the #metoo movement?

Lawrence Krauss who is among the most famous skeptics/science advocates in the U.S.
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:41 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I think the question is whether journalists (or their major sources) believe—with unwavering conviction—the subject of some given exposé is "uniquely worthy of injury or exposure."

So far, Buzzfeed News has addressed the skeptic movement just twice, laying out allegations against Michael Shermer and Lawrence Krauss. As skeptics, we are free to doubt or accept the claims made in these write-ups, based on our own assessment of the underlying sources and the quality of the reportage.
Perhaps you should be reviewing the number of times Buzzfeed News has addressed the #metoo movement?

By the way, a 'skeptic" would note that you appear to be engaging in an ad hominem fallacy.
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:43 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Krauss is among the most famous skeptics/science advocates in the U.S. (seems uniquely newsworthy to me) though it must be said that many of the men in that relatively small group have previously been accused of sexual misconduct or harassment, or at least sexism.
Any of them been banned from university campuses for being notoriously sexually inappropriate with students? Defenders of and friends with someone deep into underage sex trafficking rings? Accused of sexual assault by multiple people?

Anybody have any Sam Harris or Dan Barker or Daniel Dennett stories on par with Krauss's pattern?
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:46 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post

So far, Buzzfeed News has addressed the skeptic movement just twice, laying out allegations against Michael Shermer and Lawrence Krauss.
What in the world else would they report on?

Fascinating coverage of how we still don't believe in bigfoot?
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:48 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Any of them been banned from university campuses for being notoriously sexually inappropriate with students?
I don't yet know whether that has even happened to Professor Krauss. Have we even heard from Case Western on this yet? ASU?
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Old 28th February 2018, 02:57 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't yet know whether that has even happened to Professor Krauss. Have we even heard from Case Western on this yet? ASU?
Do you have reason to believe that this did not happen to Convicted Felon Apologist Krauss? ASU has opened an investigation and Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics confirmed that “In 2012, as part of a formal review of its internal policies, the institute made a decision that he would not be invited to return."
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:04 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't yet know whether that has even happened to Professor Krauss. Have we even heard from Case Western on this yet? ASU?
Do you not believe this from the article?


Quote:
In response to complaints, two institutions — Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Ontario — have quietly restricted him from their campuses. Our reporting is based on official university documents, emails, and interviews with more than 50 people.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:16 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Do you not believe this from the article?
It's strangely worded. I guess, "we'll see"is my best response, since I'm perfectly happy to watch and wait until the dust settles.

One of the people featured in the article was banned from the JREF.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:22 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
It's strangely worded. I guess, "we'll see"is my best response, since I'm perfectly happy to watch and wait until the dust settles.

One of the people featured in the article was banned from the JREF.
I remember when Rebecca was banned (after yage'ing a few times, iirc. lol)
I wasn't friends with her, but I always thought she was funny.

Re: the buzzfeed quote, I'm not finding the wording clumsy or leading to any ambiguity whatsoever.

You can say you don't trust or believe Buzzfeed, but...

Quote:
In response to complaints, two institutions — Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Ontario — have quietly restricted him from their campuses.
...only has one possible interpretation.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:29 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I remember when Rebecca was banned (after yage'ing a few times, iirc. lol)
I wasn't friends with her, but I always thought she was funny.

Re: the buzzfeed quote, I'm not finding the wording clumsy or leading to any ambiguity whatsoever.

You can say you don't trust or believe Buzzfeed, but...

...only has one possible interpretation.
To take it a step further, neither Case Western nor the Canadians have contradicted the reporting in any fashion.

It is certainly reasonable that the absence of any objection is incredibly compelling.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:32 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
To take it a step further, neither Case Western nor the Canadians have contradicted the reporting in any fashion.

It is certainly reasonable that the absence of any objection is incredibly compelling.
Yeah, that would be one hell of an easily exposed fib if they just made that up.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:39 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
To take it a step further, neither Case Western nor the Canadians have contradicted the reporting in any fashion.
I eagerly await some form of confirmation.

Not getting the sense that Case Western totally severed ties: http://cerca.case.edu/events/einsteins-blunder/
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:42 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I eagerly await some form of confirmation.
Confirmation from whom, and in what form?


Quote:
Not getting the sense that Case Western totally severed ties
Ok, "restricted him from their campuses". For being notoriously sexually inappropriate with students. Not a lot of difference there.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:42 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Confirmation from who in what form?
From either university mentioned in the hit piece exposé.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:43 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
C'mon, Belz....(the 4th dot is a period) You're not that blinkered.
I didn't know the guilty plea was before the comment was made.

In any case, I'm still in the dark as to what was meant by "disturbing".
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:46 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
From either university mentioned in the hit piece exposé.
You've emailed them?
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:48 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I didn't know the guilty plea was before the comment was made.

In any case, I'm still in the dark as to what was meant by "disturbing".
"Disturbing" as in "it creeps you out" about the guy.

Let me put it like this: I wouldn't want someone like that tutoring my 14 year old daughter (if I had a daughter that age.)
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:48 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I eagerly await some form of confirmation.

Not getting the sense that Case Western totally severed ties: http://cerca.case.edu/events/einsteins-blunder/
Was not aware that Case Western had a campus in the Virgin Islands.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:48 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I didn't know the guilty plea was before the comment was made.

In any case, I'm still in the dark as to what was meant by "disturbing".
I explained it to you.
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