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Tags atheists , Lawrence Krauss , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 28th February 2018, 03:51 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Was not aware that Case Western had a campus in the Virgin Islands.
They do not.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:53 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Ok, "restricted him from their campuses". For being notoriously sexually inappropriate with students. Not a lot of difference there.
When was he thus restricted? By whom? Any way to follow this up?
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:55 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
They do not.
Ah, well that seminar took place at the University of the Virgin Islands in St. Thomas, so we are all a bit confused as to the purpose of linking to that event?
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:55 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
When was he thus restricted? By whom? Any way to follow this up?
Hell if I know. I just know Buzzfeed isn't exactly the National Inquirer.

So, you think it's reasonable likely that Buzzfeed just made that up?
Did you email the universities?
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:57 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
When was he thus restricted? By whom? Any way to follow this up?
Oh boy. You guys are pulling all the stops on this one.

But anyway, from the article

Quote:
Krauss frequently travels for lectures and speaking gigs, typically on atheism or cosmology, his field of study. In October of 2009, a little over a year after Case Western Reserve barred Krauss from campus, he went to Waterloo, Ontario, to be a guest speaker at the Quantum to Cosmos Festival at the Perimeter Institute.

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Old 28th February 2018, 04:02 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Oh boy. You guys are pulling all the stops on this one.
As opposed to the last one, wherein Benjamin Radford was accused and eventually exonerated? Once bitten, twice shy.
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Last edited by d4m10n; 28th February 2018 at 04:11 PM. Reason: added URL
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:05 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
As opposed to the last one, wherein Benjamin Radford was accused and eventually exonerated? Once bitten, twice shy.
Can you find the article that stated something false as a fact?
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:11 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Can you find the article that stated something false as a fact?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...to-correct-it/

Scroll down to "several bloggers were quick to condemn him" for a collection of hit pieces.
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:12 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...to-correct-it/

Scroll down to "several bloggers were quick to condemn him" for a collection of hit pieces.
Do you have a link to a article from a major news source that made this allegation?

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Old 28th February 2018, 04:13 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...to-correct-it/

Scroll down to "several bloggers were quick to condemn him" for a collection of hit pieces.
Thanks.
Don't you see that that's a waaay different scenario from the idea that Buzzfeed fabricated the story of Krauss getting banned from 2 university campuses?
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:15 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
As opposed to the last one, wherein Benjamin Radford was accused and eventually exonerated? Once bitten, twice shy.
I am not certain that issuing a joint statement as part of the settlement of a defamation lawsuit against one's former girlfriend constitutes "exoneration."

Not even in the US Virgin Islands.
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:18 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am not certain that issuing a joint statement as part of the settlement of a defamation lawsuit against one's former girlfriend constitutes "exoneration."

Not even in the US Virgin Islands.
It's really irrelevant either way. Buzzfeed is a reputable news organization, not bloggers just commenting on an x-gf's claims.
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:20 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's really irrelevant either way. Buzzfeed is a reputable news organization, not bloggers just commenting on an x-gf's claims.
I'm sure our boy will dispute that.
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:38 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's really irrelevant either way. Buzzfeed is a reputable news organization...
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexfinnis/...-porn-you-like
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:40 PM   #215
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Okay, that was a cheap shot. I've no idea how reputable Buzzfeed is as a new source. I can say that their star witness is mentally ill on account of internet PTSD.
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:44 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Okay, that was a cheap shot. I've no idea how reputable Buzzfeed is as a new source. I can say that their star witness is mentally ill on account of internet PTSD.
Well, she probably is mentally ill. Whether or not she has PTSD from public humiliation and death and rape threats is open to debate, but plausible enough, I guess.

Whether or not there's any element of truth to her claims about Krauss, I do not know. I just kinda ignored that part of the article.
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Old 28th February 2018, 05:05 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Well, she probably is mentally ill. Whether or not she has PTSD from public humiliation and death and rape threats is open to debate, but plausible enough, I guess.
A good friend of mine wrote a fascinating article on point.

Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Whether or not there's any element of truth to her claims about Krauss, I do not know.
We are not (epistemically speaking) nearly as far apart as I'd first supposed.
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Old 28th February 2018, 05:33 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
A good friend of mine wrote a fascinating article on point.



We are not (epistemically speaking) nearly as far apart as I'd first supposed.
Very good article.

Yeah, we probably aren't that far apart on this stuff.
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Old 28th February 2018, 06:26 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Okay, that was a cheap shot. I've no idea how reputable Buzzfeed is as a new source. I can say that their star witness is mentally ill on account of internet PTSD.
seems that their star witnesses are Case Western and the Canadian organization that restricted him from their facilities. You seemed to doubt that, going so far as post a link to an event... that took place in the Virgin Islands, and after I pointed that out, have gone radio silent
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Old 28th February 2018, 06:31 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
seems that their star witnesses are Case Western and the Canadian organization that restricted him from their facilities. You seemed to doubt that, going so far as post a link to an event... that took place in the Virgin Islands, and after I pointed that out, have gone radio silent
Greatly looking forward to statements from Case Western (who still promote Krauss' events abroad) and the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Ontario. You are welcome to blindly place your faith in Buzzfeed journalism in the meanwhile.
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Old 28th February 2018, 06:38 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Greatly looking forward to statements from Case Western (who still promote Krauss' events abroad) and the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Ontario. You are welcome to blindly place your faith in Buzzfeed journalism in the meanwhile.
Like whats been said before. If Buzzfeed lied about what these institutions said or did then that would be a pretty big scandal.

Oh and have you bothered to email them?

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Old 28th February 2018, 06:46 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Oh and have you bothered to email them?
I'm still searching for the email addresses for the relevant ombudsmen.

In the meanwhile, credulity sounds fairly relaxing.

#ListenAndBelieve
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Old 28th February 2018, 07:04 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Greatly looking forward to statements from Case Western (who still promote Krauss' events abroad) and the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Ontario. You are welcome to blindly place your faith in Buzzfeed journalism in the meanwhile.
wait, you have walked back you inexplicable citation to an event in the Virgin Islands that you posted to "rebut" the claim that he is barred from CW campuses to "promoting" a Krauss event?

Good thing I did not blindly put my faith in that.

But, what I want to hear is more apologetics about Krauss's very, very good pal Epstein. Say, speaking of the event, the Virgin Islands is where Epstein used to take his 13 year old girls.

I would "blindly" put my faith in a dog before I would place my faith in someone who wrote something as idiotic as:

“Jeffrey has surrounded himself with beautiful women and young women but they’re not as young as the ones that were claimed. As a scientist I always judge things on empirical evidence and he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him, but I’ve never seen anything else, so as a scientist, my presumption is that whatever the problems were I would believe him over other people.”

You see, he was doing "science"!

Now regale us all with tales of why we should blindly put our faith in the hands of someone who embarrassed himself defending Jeffrey Epstein.
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Old 28th February 2018, 07:09 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I'm still searching for the email addresses for the relevant ombudsmen.

In the meanwhile, credulity sounds fairly relaxing.

#ListenAndBelieve
You know what else sounds "relaxing"? Hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein on his island in the Virgin Islands!

Unless you are a 13 year girl.

Curious, isn't that where your boy who was barred from Case Western was giving a speech?

Maybe he was doing science! As a scientist, he used empirical information to conclude that the girls that Epstein had procured were 19.

It is science

#ListenAndBelievethatsheis19!
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Old 28th February 2018, 07:15 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
"Disturbing" as in "it creeps you out" about the guy.
I'll be honest with you; as a non-native English speaker I'm very fuzzy on what "creeps me out" means in this context.

Quote:
Let me put it like this: I wouldn't want someone like that tutoring my 14 year old daughter (if I had a daughter that age.)
That sounds like prudence more than anything else.

Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
I explained it to you.
You really didn't. You only said that he defended a friend who had pled guilty to soliciting sex from a 14 year old, and repeated that the recent allegations just make it disturbing. You didn't explain why it was disturbing. This shouldn't be a hard one to answer.
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Old 28th February 2018, 07:23 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
“Jeffrey has surrounded himself with beautiful women and young women but they’re not as young as the ones that were claimed. As a scientist I always judge things on empirical evidence and he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him, but I’ve never seen anything else, so as a scientist, my presumption is that whatever the problems were I would believe him over other people.”
Geezes Lol

He doesn't do himself many favours does he
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Old 28th February 2018, 07:30 PM   #227
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"His interest is in interesting people and interesting ideas," Lawrence Krauss, an Arizona State University physicist, told Reuters. Krauss directs a program on the origins of life -- a program that Epstein has supported. Krauss said he would feel cowardly if he turned away from Epstein, given that he doesn't know anything about the accusations.

"interesting" appears to be defined as 13 year olds that "scientifically" look 19.

Folks, it is science.
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Old 28th February 2018, 07:30 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You really didn't. You only said that he defended a friend who had pled guilty to soliciting sex from a 14 year old, and repeated that the recent allegations just make it disturbing. You didn't explain why it was disturbing. This shouldn't be a hard one to answer.
I said it made it more disturbing. Guy defends a convicted molester and than is accused of misconduct himself.
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Old 28th February 2018, 09:13 PM   #229
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Don't know a huge amount about Krauss.

I've only seen him once in a video of a religious debate with William Lane Craig.

He made some good points but was very yelly

Kind of didn't seem to get where the line between being passionate about the subject and just coming across as a loud ****** is.

Edited by jsfisher:  Edited for compliance with Rule 10. Swear works need to be completely masked.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:47 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
But, what I want to hear is more apologetics about Krauss's very, very good pal Epstein. Say, speaking of the event, the Virgin Islands is where Epstein used to take his 13 year old girls.
I haven't found any references to this in the plea agreement, but let us just take it on faith that Epstein was indeed flying 13-y.o.'s to the Virgin Islands for nefarious purposes. How do we get from there to the likelihood that Krauss forced himself upon Hensley?
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:52 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
I said it made it more disturbing.
No, you said:

Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
That doesn't disturb you at all?
I'm asking you what's disturbing. So far you've done nothing but avoid answering.

Quote:
Guy defends a convicted molester and than is accused of misconduct himself.
Legally or in the court of public opinion?
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:53 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
I said it made it more disturbing. Guy defends a convicted molester and than is accused of misconduct himself.
"More disturbing" in the same way a guy who expresses support for a convicted Ponzi scheme fraudster is accused of tax evasion by the IRS. So not at all.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:59 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I haven't found any references to this in the plea agreement, but let us just take it on faith that Epstein was indeed flying 13-y.o.'s to the Virgin Islands for nefarious purposes. How do we get from there to the likelihood that Krauss forced himself upon Hensley?
are you attempting to persuade the people here that his devotion to Jeffery Epstein is the ONLY data point from which we are working?

That is ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as "As a scientist I always judge things on empirical evidence and he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him."

I mean, just sit and revel in the idiocy of that statement.

Now I happen to be focusing on this aspect because you ironically mentioned Sex Criminal Apologist Krauss's trip to the Virgin Islands which you falsely used to undercut the fact Case Western has banned him from their campus, and which also happened to be Epstein's favorite place for gals that "scientifically" look 19 or something.

I'm a scientist! L. Krauss
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:08 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
are you attempting to persuade the people here that his devotion to Jeffery Epstein is the ONLY data point from which we are working?
Nope. Are you trying to persuade us that Krauss' defense of Epstein helps us weigh up the claims in the Buzzfeed hit piece exposé?
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:13 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Nope. Are you trying to persuade us that Krauss' defense of Epstein helps us weigh up the claims in the Buzzfeed hit piece exposé?
Yep.

Now, how far would you say that this:

"As a scientist I always judge things on empirical evidence and he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him, but I’ve never seen anything else, so as a scientist, my presumption is that whatever the problems were I would believe him over other people."

Set back the cause of science? I mean you called him one of the most famous skeptics/science advocates in the U.S.right? So as a scientist Krauss used "empirical" "evidence" to conclude that "he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him" so he would believe the admitted felon over other people.

That is some pretty fancy "science" advocating! Science can be brought to bear to conclude that Epstein only bangs minimum 19 year olds.

I am advocating SCIENCE!
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:15 AM   #236
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Gee, I wonder. Is Krauss a liberal?
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:22 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I haven't found any references to this in the plea agreement, but let us just take it on faith that Epstein was indeed flying 13-y.o.'s to the Virgin Islands for nefarious purposes. How do we get from there to the likelihood that Krauss forced himself upon Hensley?
Obviously, this one data point alone is not sufficient evidence of any wrongdoing.

However, I think it does contribute to the idea lend credence to any claim of Krauss's misconduct. His comments on the Epstein case show that, in spite of the facts, he will deny very serious cases of sexual abuse. In these types of situations, he will put evidence, truth, and potential future victims on the back of the bus. Now, I can't exactly say what's sitting at the front, but there are no favorable possibilities.

Given all that, he has very little reliability when it comes to denying his own sexual improprieties. Even if it is nothing more than a he said-she said, he's coming in with a disadvantage.
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:26 AM   #238
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And the above is the more generous interpretation.

The less-generous interpretation is that the Epstein case shows that Krauss is extremely clueless when it comes to sex and boundaries, to the point that he might commit assault and not see it as a problem.
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:29 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yep.
I'm really trying to follow your logic here.

If X irrationally defends some aspect of Y (a friend or hero of X) based on X's personal biases favoring Y (a well-known cognitive bias) then we may safely conclude that X probably suffers from the same character flaws as Y?

Thus, if Krauss irrationally defend Epstein, we may safely raise our assessment of the probability that Krauss (like Epstein) has relatively little regard for sexual consent or the laws governing it.
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:31 AM   #240
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Answering the Terrible Defenses of Krauss

Quote:
That’s 13 separate people who either were the victims or the witnesses of their victimization. They come from multiple universities, three different countries, at a variety of events over a long period of time. As a result of some of those investigations, two institutions — Case Western Reserve University and the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics — banned him from their campuses. And both Arizona State University and Australian National University said on the record that he lied about what their investigation of those complaints concluded.
As the article points out, hero worship, ain't it grand?
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