ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 1st March 2018, 05:20 PM   #1
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,815
Russias' New Unstoppable Nuclear Weapons

IIRC an ICBM is already as good as unstoppable. All they are doing here is making all out nuclear war easier to achieve. Although I don't know how a nuclear powered cruise missile is supposed to work. I thought nuclear powered motors were either good for very low power over a long period of time or a very short burst of very high power.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2018, 05:24 PM   #2
Dr.Sid
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,452
US had nuclear powered bomber program. It only had one problem. Lot of radiation pollution along the fly-path. That might not be an issue in nuclear tipped cruise missile.
If you consider how good Tomahawk missile is .. it's possible that the proposed Russian missile would be not much bigger, at least slightly supersonic, and with practically unlimited range. Could be scary.
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2018, 05:32 PM   #3
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,404
Of course making claims of super advanced technology that turns out to be a bunch of lies is old Russian custom.....
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2018, 08:19 PM   #4
Venom
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,288
If Putin and his cronies had empathy, I could see how it could be a bluff given that many of their offspring live in Western countries living the good, totalitarian free life, but.....

I know there is no guarantee of that. Self-preservation for them is word-for-word literal, no more.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2018, 08:33 PM   #5
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,225
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Of course making claims of super advanced technology that turns out to be a bunch of lies is old Russian custom.....
Da! And will you like turnip from Chernobyl? big, like beach ball. Glow at night!
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2018, 11:21 PM   #6
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 16,083
I don't see where this changes anything. The people who launch these weapons will still die in our counter strike along with everything they've ever known and loved and the submarine crews who make it home will still return to a radioactive wasteland. The principal of mutually assured destruction remains the same.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2018, 11:33 PM   #7
Venom
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,288
One of my most terrifying thoughts is the idea that the leader of some nuclear power could, if cornered, commit an super cynical act of murder-suicide that would make Jonestown into a footno--, no, expunged from the historical record completely.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 01:08 AM   #8
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 15,808
VV:

Originally Posted by VV
Now we have to be aware of this reality and be sure that everything I have said today is not a bluff ‒ and it is not a bluff, believe me ‒ and to give it a thought and dismiss those who live in the past and are unable to look into the future, to stop rocking the boat we are all in and which is called the Earth.

He's looking at you, "McMaster".
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 02:37 AM   #9
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,815
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Of course making claims of super advanced technology that turns out to be a bunch of lies is old Russian custom.....
Those already unstoppable ICBMs have been around for over 50 years now. Any fantasy of shooting them down before they land is exactly that. Anything else doesn't make the world any less destroyed and only increases the chance of escalation from a small exchange of fire to a battle to tactical nukes to full on MAD.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 02:53 AM   #10
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 7,472
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Da! And will you like turnip from Chernobyl? big, like beach ball. Glow at night!
Niet! Chernobyl in Urkraine. No longer our problem!
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 06:39 AM   #11
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,326
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
US had nuclear powered bomber program. It only had one problem. Lot of radiation pollution along the fly-path. That might not be an issue in nuclear tipped cruise missile.


Well, not when you're actually using it in a war. But how exactly are you planning on testing this new Wonder Weapon?
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 07:16 AM   #12
ServiceSoon
Graduate Poster
 
ServiceSoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,320
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
US had nuclear powered bomber program. It only had one problem. Lot of radiation pollution along the fly-path. That might not be an issue in nuclear tipped cruise missile.
If you consider how good Tomahawk missile is .. it's possible that the proposed Russian missile would be not much bigger, at least slightly supersonic, and with practically unlimited range. Could be scary.
Could that be the cause of detectable amounts of uranium being found during random flight paths over Alaska and Russia?
ServiceSoon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 07:18 AM   #13
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 14,946
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I don't see where this changes anything. The people who launch these weapons will still die in our counter strike along with everything they've ever known and loved and the submarine crews who make it home will still return to a radioactive wasteland. The principal of mutually assured destruction remains the same.


This bloke reckoned there's still a way to score that.
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 07:21 AM   #14
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 14,946
Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Could that be the cause of detectable amounts of uranium being found during random flight paths over Alaska and Russia?

If I recall the plane correctly, he doesn't mean 'lots' as in the Geiger counter clicks a lot. I think it means 'lots' as in your hair falls out, you get tumors and die really, really quickly. The concept was terrifying. The fact that it was even remotely considered as a weapon to be built even more so.
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 08:57 AM   #15
Dr.Sid
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,452
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
If I recall the plane correctly, he doesn't mean 'lots' as in the Geiger counter clicks a lot. I think it means 'lots' as in your hair falls out, you get tumors and die really, really quickly. The concept was terrifying. The fact that it was even remotely considered as a weapon to be built even more so.
Well it was the age of experimenting, and unleashing the new power. And it worked great for submarines and surface ships ..
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 09:04 AM   #16
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 39,408
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Although I don't know how a nuclear powered cruise missile is supposed to work.
The US investigated the idea. It was called Project Pluto.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 09:41 AM   #17
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,102
At least two of the missiles appear to be targeting Mar-A-Lago on Florida's east coast.
But they mostly triangulate to Cypress Gardens.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 12:48 PM   #18
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,404
A number of military experts are skeptical of Putin's claim to have a game changing new weapon systems.
One said the only thing that Putin's presentation proved is that he has a video game with really lousy graphics...
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2018, 01:04 PM   #19
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,404
A number of experts on Russia say this was proably done for domestic comsumption..Putin showing how under his wise leadership Russia has become a Superpower again
Might well work in a country where a good deal of the population think Uncle Joe was a great leader....
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2018, 01:47 AM   #20
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10,528
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
IIRC an ICBM is already as good as unstoppable. All they are doing here is making all out nuclear war easier to achieve. Although I don't know how a nuclear powered cruise missile is supposed to work. I thought nuclear powered motors were either good for very low power over a long period of time or a very short burst of very high power.
Nuclear powered cruise missile works by harvesting heat off a nuclear reactor, the heat causes incoming air to expand and provide thrust at the end.

If it seem unceremoniously similar to how a turbojet engine works then yes, you got the basic idea.

An American project from 1960s proposed a missile with the range of several months of tree skimming at mach 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto

What I don't understand is why would a missile like that need a warhead at all. As a terror weapon it might well be worse than a nuke. It's not a nuclear attack so it doesn't justify a nuclear response and it won't create any fallout unless you shoot it down.

I also don't see what's so revolutionary about copying a 60 year old American design.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2018, 06:40 AM   #21
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 43,065
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The US investigated the idea. It was called Project Pluto.
That was basically what I figured he was trying to say he had.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2018, 06:41 AM   #22
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 43,065
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Nuclear powered cruise missile works by harvesting heat off a nuclear reactor, the heat causes incoming air to expand and provide thrust at the end.

If it seem unceremoniously similar to how a turbojet engine works then yes, you got the basic idea.

An American project from 1960s proposed a missile with the range of several months of tree skimming at mach 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto

What I don't understand is why would a missile like that need a warhead at all. As a terror weapon it might well be worse than a nuke. It's not a nuclear attack so it doesn't justify a nuclear response and it won't create any fallout unless you shoot it down.

I also don't see what's so revolutionary about copying a 60 year old American design.

McHrozni
You need the nukes for penetrating hardened targets.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2018, 07:03 AM   #23
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10,528
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
You need the nukes for penetrating hardened targets.
You misunderstand. A nuclear-powered missile does this:

After delivering all its warheads, the missile could then spend weeks flying over populated areas at low altitudes, causing tremendous ground damage with its shock wave and radiation from its unshielded reactor. When it finally lost enough power to fly, and crash-landed, the engine would have a good chance of spewing deadly radiation for months to come.

How do you combat this? Suppose it's running in circles above your capital and/or largest city, making it unlivable. Imagine the chaos of evacuating the population of New York would cause, imagine the economic and political costs and ramifications. Once it's there your options are rather limited: do you shoot it down, making the capital uninhabitable until you clean up the fallout or do you negotiate with the enemy and make concessions in exchange to have it crash somewhere away from you?
Either way you've already lost. And the enemy didn't actually do all that much, just fly a missile over you, it's hardly a nuclear attack. If you use a closed-circuit reactor it won't even irradiate anything unless you shoot it down.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه

Last edited by McHrozni; 5th March 2018 at 07:05 AM.
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2018, 07:15 AM   #24
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,929
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Those already unstoppable ICBMs have been around for over 50 years now. Any fantasy of shooting them down before they land is exactly that. Anything else doesn't make the world any less destroyed and only increases the chance of escalation from a small exchange of fire to a battle to tactical nukes to full on MAD.
That's sort of my angle on this.

Do people think ICBMs are stoppable (with any degree of consistency or reliability) now?

There's a reason MAD was the tactic developed to counter a nuclear strike.
__________________
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset, Se7en
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2018, 07:54 AM   #25
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 43,065
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
You misunderstand. A nuclear-powered missile does this:

After delivering all its warheads, the missile could then spend weeks flying over populated areas at low altitudes, causing tremendous ground damage with its shock wave and radiation from its unshielded reactor. When it finally lost enough power to fly, and crash-landed, the engine would have a good chance of spewing deadly radiation for months to come.
That would at most destroy only one hardened target like a missle silo. The nukes would destroy many.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2018, 07:56 AM   #26
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 43,065
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's sort of my angle on this.

Do people think ICBMs are stoppable (with any degree of consistency or reliability) now?

There's a reason MAD was the tactic developed to counter a nuclear strike.
I don't think anyone really has any idea, certainly russia has plenty to have more than enough get through any realistic assessment of capabilities. But China, North Korea or India? Even with all the best information on the testing of these no one can really know.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 02:57 AM   #27
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10,528
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
That would at most destroy only one hardened target like a missle silo. The nukes would destroy many.
Again, the point is not in destroying anything particularily newsworthy. It's a terror weapon, it runs in circles just above a major city at supersonic speeds. The sonic boom shatters glass and makes it impossible to sleep or be productive but doesn't leave lasting damage to infrastructure. It doesn't have to kill anyone, although I suspect pets will suffer from breakdowns and begin to die due to stress within a day or two. Humans should be able to cope for a while, but will be unnerved and perhaps traumatized by the experience. If you shoot the missile down you have to deal with nuclear fallout, so what are you going to do? Wait and have a city taken out for several weeks or months without a shot being fired or negotiate?

Imagine then what multiple missiles would do. Imagine ten cities terrorized with ten such missiles each. As a terror weapon it might be superior to nukes.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 03:08 AM   #28
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 12,305
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Again, the point is not in destroying anything particularily newsworthy. It's a terror weapon, it runs in circles just above a major city at supersonic speeds. The sonic boom shatters glass and makes it impossible to sleep or be productive but doesn't leave lasting damage to infrastructure. It doesn't have to kill anyone, although I suspect pets will suffer from breakdowns and begin to die due to stress within a day or two. Humans should be able to cope for a while, but will be unnerved and perhaps traumatized by the experience. If you shoot the missile down you have to deal with nuclear fallout, so what are you going to do? Wait and have a city taken out for several weeks or months without a shot being fired or negotiate?

Imagine then what multiple missiles would do. Imagine ten cities terrorized with ten such missiles each. As a terror weapon it might be superior to nukes.

McHrozni
Giant net? Instead of catching suicide jumpers it be catching rouge supersonic missile.
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 03:12 AM   #29
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,941
Trump seems oddly silent on all this.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 09:27 AM   #30
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 43,065
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump seems oddly silent on all this.
Nothing odd about it. Putin told him to ignore it and he isn't going to bite the hand that feeds him.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 09:28 AM   #31
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 43,065
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Again, the point is not in destroying anything particularily newsworthy. It's a terror weapon, it runs in circles just above a major city at supersonic speeds. The sonic boom shatters glass and makes it impossible to sleep or be productive but doesn't leave lasting damage to infrastructure. It doesn't have to kill anyone, although I suspect pets will suffer from breakdowns and begin to die due to stress within a day or two. Humans should be able to cope for a while, but will be unnerved and perhaps traumatized by the experience. If you shoot the missile down you have to deal with nuclear fallout, so what are you going to do? Wait and have a city taken out for several weeks or months without a shot being fired or negotiate?

Imagine then what multiple missiles would do. Imagine ten cities terrorized with ten such missiles each. As a terror weapon it might be superior to nukes.

McHrozni
What is the purpose of annoying a population during mutually assured destruction?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 09:57 AM   #32
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 11,838
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump seems oddly silent on all this.
Considering that Trump does not care about the Russians meddling in our elections, then one should not be surprised to see that Trump does care about the Russian weapons that could destroy us.
__________________
08 JAN 2018 > Trump says that he is "Like, Really Smart" and that he is "a Very Stable Genius".
11 JAN 2018 > During an Oval Office meeting, Trump asks "“Why are we having all these people from ****hole countries come here?”"

A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 10:50 AM   #33
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 12,305
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Considering that Trump does not care about the Russians meddling in our elections, then one should not be surprised to see that Trump does care about the Russian weapons that could destroy us.
Assuming they do exist.
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 11:02 AM   #34
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,994
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Assuming they do exist.
They don't exist. The core technology is an atomic ramjet. Nuclear power would give an aircraft pretty much unlimited range and loiter time. The US conducted several successful ground tests of prototype engines in the early 1960s.

As far as I know, there's no indication that Russia has attempted to reproduce that work, let alone integrate a working engine into an airframe. It seems like all Russia has really done is make a Saturday Morning Cartoon about the original Project Pluto.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 11:11 AM   #35
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 11,838
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Assuming they do exist.
The weapons that Putin was describing do not exist right now.

However, it would be prudent to at least start developing some counter-measures now just in case such weapons are developed in the future.
__________________
08 JAN 2018 > Trump says that he is "Like, Really Smart" and that he is "a Very Stable Genius".
11 JAN 2018 > During an Oval Office meeting, Trump asks "“Why are we having all these people from ****hole countries come here?”"

A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 11:13 AM   #36
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 43,065
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
They don't exist. The core technology is an atomic ramjet. Nuclear power would give an aircraft pretty much unlimited range and loiter time. The US conducted several successful ground tests of prototype engines in the early 1960s.

As far as I know, there's no indication that Russia has attempted to reproduce that work, let alone integrate a working engine into an airframe. It seems like all Russia has really done is make a Saturday Morning Cartoon about the original Project Pluto.
They were no where near specific enough to say what Putin was trying to describe.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 11:16 AM   #37
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,994
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
The weapons that Putin was describing do not exist right now.

However, it would be prudent to at least start developing some counter-measures now just in case such weapons are developed in the future.
Cruise missile countermeasures are already a thing.

Ballistic missile countermeasures--for all phases of flight--are also already a thing, by the way. Not a guaranteed thing, but the technology does keep improving. So there's that.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 11:18 AM   #38
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,994
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
They were no where near specific enough to say what Putin was trying to describe.
Enh. Project Pluto is a feasible project that matches Putin's description. It's about the only feasible project I know of that does. It doesn't matter much to me if Putin was actually talking about something even more absurd, and not even feasible.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 11:29 AM   #39
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 11,838
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Cruise missile countermeasures are already a thing.

Ballistic missile countermeasures--for all phases of flight--are also already a thing, by the way. Not a guaranteed thing, but the technology does keep improving. So there's that.
Thanks much and I assure you that I was already aware of these facts.

However, considering:

that Trump will bitch and complain about the crowd size at his inaguration,
that Trump will bitch and complain about the need for a wall for border security,
that Trump will gladly kiss Putin's butt at any given opportunity,
that Trump has not done anything to prepare for Russian meddeling in the USA elections,
and that Trump has not even said "Boo!" about the Putin weapons boasts,

Then I am still rather concerned.
__________________
08 JAN 2018 > Trump says that he is "Like, Really Smart" and that he is "a Very Stable Genius".
11 JAN 2018 > During an Oval Office meeting, Trump asks "“Why are we having all these people from ****hole countries come here?”"

A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2018, 11:52 AM   #40
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,994
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Thanks much and I assure you that I was already aware of these facts.

However, considering:

that Trump will bitch and complain about the crowd size at his inaguration,
that Trump will bitch and complain about the need for a wall for border security,
that Trump will gladly kiss Putin's butt at any given opportunity,
that Trump has not done anything to prepare for Russian meddeling in the USA elections,
and that Trump has not even said "Boo!" about the Putin weapons boasts,

Then I am still rather concerned.
Concerned about what, though? You mentioned countermeasures as a point of concern, but now you acknowledge that countermeasures do exist. Are you still concerned about not having countermeasures for cruise missiles?

And what exactly would Trump say, to allay your concerns (whatever they are)?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:10 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.