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Tags donald trump , lawsuits , Michael Cohen , Stephanie Clifford , Stormy Daniels , Trump controversies

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:08 AM   #361
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I read the agreement that Stormy signed in October 2016 pursuant to which she got the original 130k, obviously.
So it is who ever this DD person is. But who is that?
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:13 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So it is who ever this DD person is. But who is that?
the individual in the side letter agreement, which is redacted but is widely believed to the 45th President of the United States Donald J. Trump.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:14 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
To whom does she owe this cool 1 mil ??

How did you determine that ?
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I read the agreement that Stormy signed in October 2016 pursuant to which she got the original 130k, obviously.
Swing and a miss !

Nice dodge.

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:16 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Swing and a miss !

Nice dodge.

Dodge? What are you talking about? I specifically referred to the agreement.

Tha heck?
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:18 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
the individual in the side letter agreement, which is redacted but is widely believed to the 45th President of the United States Donald J. Trump.
But he would clearly need to come forward and say it is him to get the money. As he still holds it is not him that is quite impossible.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:20 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
To whom does she owe this cool 1 mil ??

How did you determine that ?
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Dodge? What are you talking about? I specifically referred to the agreement.

Tha heck?
Care to try again ?

You determined that someone violated an agreement ... by reading the agreement ?

Tha heck ?
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:21 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But he would clearly need to come forward and say it is him to get the money. As he still holds it is not him that is quite impossible.
I am quite confident that the money will be sought in the confines of the private arbitration as stipulated in the contract she signed.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:22 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Care to try again ?

You determined that someone violated an agreement ... by reading the agreement ?

Tha heck ?
Am I being punked? How else are you going to tell if someone breached the agreement other than by reading its terms?
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:29 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am quite confident that the money will be sought in the confines of the private arbitration as stipulated in the contract she signed.
But who gets it? It is supposed to go to DD and no one knows who that is. Some people think it is Trump, but he says it isn't. Are calling the President a liar?
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:32 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
To whom does she owe this cool 1 mil ??

How did you determine that ?
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Am I being punked? How else are you going to tell if someone breached the agreement other than by reading its terms?
Let me try to make it more simple for you ...


1) To whom does she (Daniels aka Clifford) owe this cool 1 mil ??

2) What violation occurred, specifically ??

3) Why is it that you, TBD, not a party to the agreement, claims a violation occurred, yet AFAIK, non of the parties of the agreement claim a violation occurred ? Are they unable to read ?
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:33 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
the individual in the side letter agreement, which is redacted but is widely believed to the 45th President of the United States Donald J. Trump.
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But who gets it? It is supposed to go to DD and no one knows who that is. Some people think it is Trump, but he says it isn't. Are calling the President a liar?
The claim that "no one knows who that is" is a lie.

the parties to the side letter know.

C'mon... smdh...
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:37 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Let me try to make it more simple for you ...


1) To whom does she (Daniels aka Clifford) owe this cool 1 mil ??

2) What violation occurred, specifically ??

3) Why is it that you, TBD, not a party to the agreement, claims a violation occurred, yet AFAIK, non of the parties of the agreement claim a violation occurred ? Are they unable to read ?
1. DD

2. breach of section 4 and paragraph 4.3.3. in particular.

3. A party did in fact claim a violation and obtained a TRO pursuant to paragraph 5.1.3.

These facts are not really in dispute at all....
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:44 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
1. DD

2. breach of section 4 and paragraph 4.3.3. in particular.

3. A party did in fact claim a violation and obtained a TRO pursuant to paragraph 5.1.3.

These facts are not really in dispute at all....
1. DD didn't sign the contract, so it's not clear at all that DD is owed anything.

2. You keep dodging. What was the breach ? What is your evidence it occurred ?

3. No. wrong. Incorrect. ********. Please provide evidence that Cohen claimed Daniels violated the agreement.
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:05 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
1. DD didn't sign the contract, so it's not clear at all that DD is owed anything.

2. You keep dodging. What was the breach ? What is your evidence it occurred ?

3. No. wrong. Incorrect. ********. Please provide evidence that Cohen claimed Daniels violated the agreement.
Oh, I get it, I am being punked.

1. dodge, goal post move.
2. dodge goal post move again.
3. ludicrous. For Pete's sake that is why she filed the declaratory judgment action in the first place. have you read it, have you read literally anything at all about this???

here is the TRO order

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_...tion%20TRO.pdf

Or you can continue Just Askin' Questions!

oh man.....
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:16 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
1. DD didn't sign the contract, so it's not clear at all that DD is owed anything.

2. You keep dodging. What was the breach ? What is your evidence it occurred ?

3. No. wrong. Incorrect. ********. Please provide evidence that Cohen claimed Daniels violated the agreement.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh, I get it, I am being punked.

1. dodge, goal post move.
2. dodge goal post move again.
3. ludicrous. For Pete's sake that is why she filed the declaratory judgment action in the first place. have you read it, have you read literally anything at all about this???

here is the TRO order

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_...tion%20TRO.pdf

Or you can continue Just Askin' Questions!

oh man.....
I moved no goal posts.

1) I asked you who is owed the money. You claim "DD". If it's a valid contract, I agree. It's not a dodge to point that out.

2) Please answer the question I have asked from the beginning:
What was the breach ? What is your evidence it occurred ?

3. You claim the agreement was breached. You linked to a TRO "precluding" PP from disclosing any information as evidence that the information was already disclosed, thus breaching the contract ?

A TRO put in place to preclude something from happening means that something didn't yet happen.

k thx
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:40 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
1. DD didn't sign the contract, so it's not clear at all that DD is owed anything.
As I understand it, for Cohen this is kinda Schrödinger's lawsuit. He'll have to admit whether he signed the agreement as Trump's lawyer (without communicating with his client), or signed it as the legal owner of Essential Consultants. And either way, he loses and gets an ethics charge thrown his way.

And for Trump, likewise, he'll have the choice between fighting in court and thus admitting to marital infidelity (or worse), or not fighting and letting Stormy tell all the lurid details.

What happened with the fact that Cohen blabbered first about the agreement earlier this year? Wasn't that the first breach of the confidentiality agreement?

As to the "verdict" in arbitration, how is that enforceable in the American justice system?
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:44 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post

As to the "verdict" in arbitration, how is that enforceable in the American justice system?
https://www.americanbar.org/content/...thcheckdam.pdf
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:45 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
As I understand it, for Cohen this is kinda Schrödinger's lawsuit. He'll have to admit whether he signed the agreement as Trump's lawyer (without communicating with his client), or signed it as the legal owner of Essential Consultants. And either way, he loses and gets an ethics charge thrown his way.

And for Trump, likewise, he'll have the choice between fighting in court and thus admitting to marital infidelity (or worse), or not fighting and letting Stormy tell all the lurid details.

What happened with the fact that Cohen blabbered first about the agreement earlier this year? Wasn't that the first breach of the confidentiality agreement?

As to the "verdict" in arbitration, how is that enforceable in the American justice system?
Well first the court will have to rule if the whole agreement is enforceable or not.
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:56 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
As I understand it, for Cohen this is kinda Schrödinger's lawsuit. He'll have to admit whether he signed the agreement as Trump's lawyer (without communicating with his client), or signed it as the legal owner of Essential Consultants. And either way, he loses and gets an ethics charge thrown his way.

And for Trump, likewise, he'll have the choice between fighting in court and thus admitting to marital infidelity (or worse), or not fighting and letting Stormy tell all the lurid details.

What happened with the fact that Cohen blabbered first about the agreement earlier this year? Wasn't that the first breach of the confidentiality agreement?

As to the "verdict" in arbitration, how is that enforceable in the American justice system?
Thanks much. This is about what I was thinking as well.

While in many ways, this story about Story Daniels is quite boring, in some very important ways it could result in the first real dent that the Trump lovers may sustain.

After all, if it turns out that Trump actually did pay a porn star to keep quite about the affair that he had with her after his third wife just give birth to his son, then does sure does not reflect well on Trump. Also, there may well be several rather lurid messages between Daniels and Trump that will soon wind up on as cover stories for just about every news organization in the country.

Similarly, if it turns out that Cohen actually did pay off Stormy Daniels, then one has to wonder what other Trump dirt that Cohen may know about. Furthermore, Cohen may well have to disbarment proceedings for doing something so unethical and/or embarrassing to the rest of the legal profession.
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:57 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Apologies for the slight derail, but I'm not going to let 'Sam Seder' whiff past without noting that the character was called 'Sam Seaborn'.
Good one

Quote:

Somewhat more on-topic, Sam was criticised - yes, for sleeping with her, but more generally just for 'associating' with her. It is fiction however, and Sorkin-fiction, which has an overwhelmingly high moral tone (depending on your moral leanings)

The Vice President (in the West Wing - not Pence) did resign over rumours of an affair though.
That was the guy who played Otter in Animal House?
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Old 12th March 2018, 01:02 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Fiction can often reflect, at least broadly, the values of the time. Regardless of any particular television show, the sorts of scandal that people would find acceptable if publicly known have shifted over time.
Gary Hart
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Old 12th March 2018, 01:09 PM   #382
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I think Cohen broke the NDA when he admitted to paying Clifford the $130K.
Clifford even said so at the time.

So I don't understand what all the back and forth is about.

Clifford has already gone ahead and told her story to the highest bidder, 60 minutes.

The only thing that can possibly bother Trump is the oddly small $130K payment, imo.

I'm sure they were aware of the danger of that payment when it was negotiated, and it was probably done legally.
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Old 12th March 2018, 01:11 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Thanks much. This is about what I was thinking as well.

While in many ways, this story about Story Daniels is quite boring, in some very important ways it could result in the first real dent that the Trump lovers may sustain.

After all, if it turns out that Trump actually did pay a porn star to keep quite about the affair that he had with her after his third wife just give birth to his son, then does sure does not reflect well on Trump. Also, there may well be several rather lurid messages between Daniels and Trump that will soon wind up on as cover stories for just about every news organization in the country.

Similarly, if it turns out that Cohen actually did pay off Stormy Daniels, then one has to wonder what other Trump dirt that Cohen may know about. Furthermore, Cohen may well have to disbarment proceedings for doing something so unethical and/or embarrassing to the rest of the legal profession.
And another case where it is not the crime but the cover up that gets you. Call that the Hastert Law.
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Old 12th March 2018, 01:34 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And another case where it is not the crime but the cover up that gets you. Call that the Hastert Law.
Again, hanky-panky with a porn star is not actually a crime, even if you have a wife and new born son.

So the hush money and the agreement as such was not the cover-up for a crime.

Furthermore, the agreement as such is not criminal.

Additionally, I believe the agreement is valid even if DD is not actually a party to it. If Daniels has a contract with Cohen, she has to keep it. I could set up a contract with you, turtle, where your duty is to pay me 1 million and mine is not to reveal that TBD made hanky-panky with SG in 2006, and it wouldn'z matter if TBD knows about the deal, nor whether the story is true or not: by way of my contract with turtle, I'd be obligated to not tell the story.

The only (likely) crime here is undeclared campaign contribution.
And Cohen may well face disbarment for setting up an LLC for the sole purpose of funneling an undeclared campaign contribution.

The payment is likely campaign related a) because of the timing b) because of its predictably real effect of preventing that some voters would refrain from voting for Trump if the story broke before election day.
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Old 12th March 2018, 01:34 PM   #385
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I like how they keep calling a one night stand with a porn star an "affair". She shows up at his hotel room, screws him, the end. That sounds more like a one night stand or prostitution. Nitpick maybe. Either way it's a bad thing he did, problem is that nobody cares except the press and his sworn enemies.

Do people think that conservatives and Trump voters will wish they'd voted for Hillary or Bernie because of this? Does anyone think this will aid in a successful impeachment? I don't.

Democrats, you are waaaay too late with this crap. This is pre-election material. I think many conservatives are reacting to you and your desperation to knock down Trump more than they are actually defending the President. What he did was bad but what Dems are doing is much worse. Of course that is debatable.

Anyways the woman is a money hungry piece of crap:

Quote:
The exchange would allow Clifford to speak publicly about her allegations of an affair with Trump, and according to the letter "use and publish any text messages, photos and/or videos relating to the President that she may have in her possession, all without fear of retribution and/or legal liability for damages." By sending the money to Trump, it would involve the President -- who has never acknowledged the agreement or the affair -- in the case.
Hilarious. A credit to women the world over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Thanks much. This is about what I was thinking as well.

While in many ways, this story about Story Daniels is quite boring, in some very important ways it could result in the first real dent that the Trump lovers may sustain.

After all, if it turns out that Trump actually did pay a porn star to keep quite about the affair that he had with her after his third wife just give birth to his son, then does sure does not reflect well on Trump. Also, there may well be several rather lurid messages between Daniels and Trump that will soon wind up on as cover stories for just about every news organization in the country.

Similarly, if it turns out that Cohen actually did pay off Stormy Daniels, then one has to wonder what other Trump dirt that Cohen may know about. Furthermore, Cohen may well have to disbarment proceedings for doing something so unethical and/or embarrassing to the rest of the legal profession.
No it does not reflect well on Trump but it will not affect him significantly as President and it will not get him removed from office.
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Old 12th March 2018, 01:48 PM   #386
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:01 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Additionally, I believe the agreement is valid even if DD is not actually a party to it. If Daniels has a contract with Cohen, she has to keep it. I could set up a contract with you, turtle, where your duty is to pay me 1 million and mine is not to reveal that TBD made hanky-panky with SG in 2006, and it wouldn'z matter if TBD knows about the deal, nor whether the story is true or not: by way of my contract with turtle, I'd be obligated to not tell the story.
But if that contract claims to represent TBD, as Daniel's contract claims to represent Trump, no representative of TBD signing it is grounds for nullification.

Here's Seth Abramson's take on it:

https://twitter.com/sethabramson/sta...27139965865986

tl;dr - he thinks Cohen's attempts at obfuscation (i.e. EC, LLC) introduce enough sloppy language for a good lawyer to get it tossed. But it doesn't matter anyway - were Trump to sue her for breach of contract, he'd have to testify about it in court and that's unlikely to happen.
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:11 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What he did was bad but what Dems are doing is much worse.
This is quote from someone who wants us to believe he’s not defending Trump.
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:28 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I have already expertly explained that he will simply say that he did it to keep his wife and child from finding out, he is totally sorry, she forgave him and will be converting to Melania's religion because they love each other so so much.

C'mon, this is a layup.
Yeah, he can say that but who's gonna believe him ... especially in a courtroom.
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:32 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Because Stormy chose to bring it up then, obviously.

Trump thought, oh man, I am already on thin ice with my lady due to Billy Bush tape, the last thing she needs is to hear this now or I will be in the dog house for sure!
What's relevant to your claim is how many other "ladies" has he paid off and when (relative to the affair itself) did the payment take place. If there are several others with the same pattern as Stormy, then you have a point. If not, Occam's Razor says the payoff was 100% political.
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:34 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Again, hanky-panky with a porn star is not actually a crime, even if you have a wife and new born son.
Unless... "David Dennison" paid Stormy for the hanky panky. Then it's a crime by both.

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
So the hush money and the agreement as such was not the cover-up for a crime.

Furthermore, the agreement as such is not criminal.

Additionally, I believe the agreement is valid even if DD is not actually a party to it. If Daniels has a contract with Cohen, she has to keep it. I could set up a contract with you, turtle, where your duty is to pay me 1 million and mine is not to reveal that TBD made hanky-panky with SG in 2006, and it wouldn'z matter if TBD knows about the deal, nor whether the story is true or not: by way of my contract with turtle, I'd be obligated to not tell the story.
Fair enough. But the agreement seems to be very poorly set up, with "DD" not signing it but on the other hand, EC/Cohen not entitled to arbitration. And there's the fundamental problem with such an agreement that if you want to enforce it, you have to publicly acknowledge you're the party. That problem never goes away, how well you set it up.

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The only (likely) crime here is undeclared campaign contribution.
And Cohen may well face disbarment for setting up an LLC for the sole purpose of funneling an undeclared campaign contribution.
While the latter is technically not a crime, it certainly is a severe consequence for Cohen. Though, viewed from an anti-Trump angle, I wonder if that's a bonus. IIRC, it's not the first time that Cohen serves his master poorly. I'd rate the question "do you want Cohen to remain Trump's house lawyer" similar to "do we want Mussolini as ally or as enemy?"

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I like how they keep calling a one night stand with a porn star an "affair". She shows up at his hotel room, screws him, the end. That sounds more like a one night stand or prostitution. Nitpick maybe.
What I've read, the affair started in 2006 and continued into 2007. But maybe you're right and it was a one-night stand on New Year's Eve
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:36 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Here's Seth Abramson's take on it:

https://twitter.com/sethabramson/sta...27139965865986

tl;dr - he thinks Cohen's attempts at obfuscation (i.e. EC, LLC) introduce enough sloppy language for a good lawyer to get it tossed. But it doesn't matter anyway - were Trump to sue her for breach of contract, he'd have to testify about it in court and that's unlikely to happen.
It has a mandatory arbitration provision in it, and the poet's analysis is based on the ridiculous claim that: "It turns out Mr. Cohen was colluding with my prior lawyer."

Worthless.
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:39 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I like how they keep calling a one night stand with a porn star an "affair". She shows up at his hotel room, screws him, the end. That sounds more like a one night stand or prostitution.
Probably a bit more to it than that. While we don't know all the details (and won't know, until/unless the contract is ruled invalid or is broken), they probably saw each other socially outside of their meet up at the hotel room.

From: https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/0...fair-timeline/
she said she kept in touch with Trump and saw him several more times, though she said they never again had sex.
Quote:
Do people think that conservatives and Trump voters will wish they'd voted for Hillary or Bernie because of this?
While the majority of Trump supporters are quite happy wallowing in the bigotry and racism that Trump provides, its quite possible that there may be a few voters for whom this scandal may be the "straw that broke the camel's back".
Quote:
Does anyone think this will aid in a successful impeachment? I don't.
It may or may not. It depends on the results of the mid-term elections and whether the republicans in congress have any morals.

But does that fact that it won't lead to impeachment mean that we should stop investigating whether a crime has been committed? Are you suggesting that the president and his coworkers should be given a pass on any and all crimes they committed just because the republicans in congress are content with a criminal in charge?
Quote:
I think many conservatives are reacting to you and your desperation to knock down Trump more than they are actually defending the President.
If they are, then its sad and pathetic. Is pathethetisad a word?
Quote:
What he did was bad but what Dems are doing is much worse. Of course that is debatable.
The only people that would see that as 'debatable' are people who are happy with a racist/bigot in the white house. Anyone who is uncomfortable with bigotry will look at the various crimes and scandals of Trump and the republicans, and of the Democrats, and recognize that the rot of the GOP is much deeper and much more serious than the problems affecting the Democrats.

Quote:
Anyways the woman is a money hungry piece of crap:
So people like money. Why does it mean she is a "piece of crap"?

And given a choice, I have a little more respect for someone who may want to get money from a racist adulterer than from someone who gets his money by short-changing contractors, bilking dozens of innocent students (see: Trump U) and misappropriating charitable donations.
Quote:
No it does not reflect well on Trump but it will not affect him significantly as President and it will not get him removed from office.
Unless of course it is determined that 1) the payment is considered an illegal campaign contribution, and 2) that Trump knew about it. Which would be illegal. You know, the law... the thing that Trump swore to uphold?

And even if Trump manages to survive this, it is still a valuable experience, as any potential voters in future elections (midterms or 2020 presidential) can look at the republicans, see what their response is to their leader engaging in possibly illegal activities, and ask themselves "Do I really want to support a politician who is that cavalier about breaking the law?"
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:57 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Democrats, you are waaaay too late with this crap. This is pre-election material.
Stormy Daniels is a registered Republican:
Quote:
A group of fans attempted to recruit Daniels to run against Republican Senator David Vitter in Louisiana in 2010.[8] The recruitment process was centered around the website DraftStormy.com.[19] On May 21, 2009, she formed an exploratory committee.[20] Daniels was unaffiliated with any party until April 2010 when she declared herself as a Republican.
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:05 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
She's not the first republican...

Nope, can't follow through, sorry.
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:30 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
This is quote from someone who wants us to believe he’s not defending Trump.
If he's not defending Trump, he is doing one hell of a good imitation of defending him.
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:31 PM   #397
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I do not want to hear a Republican ever accuse a Democrat of being unfit for public office for moral or ethical reasons again. Just don't.
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:32 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I do not want to hear a Republican ever accuse a Democrat of being unfit for public office for moral or ethical reasons again. Just don't.
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Old 12th March 2018, 04:19 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
I moved no goal posts.

1) I asked you who is owed the money. You claim "DD". If it's a valid contract, I agree. It's not a dodge to point that out.

2) Please answer the question I have asked from the beginning:
What was the breach ? What is your evidence it occurred ?

3. You claim the agreement was breached. You linked to a TRO "precluding" PP from disclosing any information as evidence that the information was already disclosed, thus breaching the contract ?

A TRO put in place to preclude something from happening means that something didn't yet happen.

k thx
Still waiting on the answer to number 2 from TBD ...

Still waiting for TBD to explain how aa TRO "precluding" an action is evidence that thing already happened...

Am also mildly interested to know if TBD believes "DD" is Donald Trump.
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:00 PM   #400
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https://hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ec.jpg

Agreement says EC, LLC and/or David Dennison.

Looks like Trump did not need to sign it?
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