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Tags donald trump , lawsuits , Michael Cohen , Stephanie Clifford , Stormy Daniels , Trump controversies

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Old 8th March 2018, 01:52 PM   #81
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Well Stormy Daniel's ranking on a porn site I checked out is in the top 5. I'd never heard of her before this, but I don't suppose I would have. I'd say it will work out very well for her. Why else would she reveal anything about an affair from years ago? Money.
Money is probably the main reason. There may be other alternatives: disgust over what she sees as an incompetent hypocrite in power who might try to bring in some 1950s style repression. Some perceived slight she feels Trump gave her.

Quote:
As for Trump, who do you think will care about any of this aside from the people who already hate him? A billionaire had an affair years ago with a porn star and possibly a lot of other women...shocker.
Keep in mind that it wasn't just the fact that it happened years ago. Its the fact that they tried to cover it up (and did so incompetently).

Granted, Trump's voter base is largely composed of bigots and hypocrites who are willing to give him a pass. But there may be a few who may see this as the final straw and finally quit supporting him. Death by a thousand paper cuts and all.
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Of all the crap Trump has been accused of though, screwing a porn star years before he ran for President smells of desperation more than anything.
Last time I checked, Trump and the republican party was the one that had been supported by most evangelical Christians. You know, the one that claims the moral high ground when it comes to issues like gay rights, censorship, and abortion. This issue is as much about highlighting their failings as it is to highlight Trump's.

Plus, Trump is a reprehensible person who has harmed (and plans to further harm) many people... DACA recipients, Obamacare users, LGBTers, minorities, etc.. There is certainly an element of Schadenfreude involved... We can't stop Trump from harming these groups, but we can certainly see him go through his own suffering.
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Old 8th March 2018, 01:56 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Money is probably the main reason. There may be other alternatives: disgust over what she sees as an incompetent hypocrite in power who might try to bring in some 1950s style repression. Some perceived slight she feels Trump gave her.


Keep in mind that it wasn't just the fact that it happened years ago. Its the fact that they tried to cover it up (and did so incompetently).

Granted, Trump's voter base is largely composed of bigots and hypocrites who are willing to give him a pass. But there may be a few who may see this as the final straw and finally quit supporting him. Death by a thousand paper cuts and all.

Last time I checked, Trump and the republican party was the one that had been supported by most evangelical Christians. You know, the one that claims the moral high ground when it comes to issues like gay rights, censorship, and abortion. This issue is as much about highlighting their failings as it is to highlight Trump's.

Plus, Trump is a reprehensible person who has harmed (and plans to further harm) many people... DACA recipients, Obamacare users, LGBTers, minorities, etc.. There is certainly an element of Schadenfreude involved... We can't stop Trump from harming these groups, but we can certainly see him go through his own suffering.
11 years ago has a different connotation when you are 71.
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Old 8th March 2018, 01:57 PM   #83
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It was the lawyer Cohen who came out and mentioned the payment to Clifford, at which point Clifford figured the NDA had been busted by Cohen.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:01 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
I agree that it was probably discussed with Trump.

However that doesn't mean Trump wasn't pissed at the specific way she answered, or that his anger would be rational.

And he can be pissed at her and not have her leave.
I'm certain that if Trump gets mad at her for having to handle those questions, she will leave.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:25 PM   #85
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On the contract itself. As I understand Daniels is saying it's invalid because the contract wasn't signed by Trump. But can't it be considered a valid contract if all the terms of it were fulfilled -she got the money so she is still bound by the terms even if the contract wasn't technically complete? IANAL so if someone is and can clarify, that would be great.

Although, I think it's possible that her lawyer knows it might be held enforceable but knows that this little action will force Trump to respond and thus reveal that, yeah, he screwed Stormy Daniels.

Why anyone cares about this very much at all is another question I have . . .
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:42 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
On the contract itself. As I understand Daniels is saying it's invalid because the contract wasn't signed by Trump. But can't it be considered a valid contract if all the terms of it were fulfilled -she got the money so she is still bound by the terms even if the contract wasn't technically complete? IANAL so if someone is and can clarify, that would be great.

Although, I think it's possible that her lawyer knows it might be held enforceable but knows that this little action will force Trump to respond and thus reveal that, yeah, he screwed Stormy Daniels.

Why anyone cares about this very much at all is another question I have . . .
Were you saying that about the Clinton/Lewinsky scandle?
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:43 PM   #87
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As for this case, it might be a case of Liar vs Liar.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:44 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
On the contract itself. As I understand Daniels is saying it's invalid because the contract wasn't signed by Trump. But can't it be considered a valid contract if all the terms of it were fulfilled -she got the money so she is still bound by the terms even if the contract wasn't technically complete? IANAL so if someone is and can clarify, that would be great.

Although, I think it's possible that her lawyer knows it might be held enforceable but knows that this little action will force Trump to respond and thus reveal that, yeah, he screwed Stormy Daniels.

Why anyone cares about this very much at all is another question I have . . .
<CT hat on>
http://www.palmerreport.com/analysis...ls-trump/8625/

While paying her off, Trump originally forced Daniels agree to keep quiet about a specific set of things that went beyond the mere fact that they were having sex. MSNBC host Lawrence O’Donnell managed to pick this passage out of Daniels’ court filings, which he presented on-air on Wednesday evening: “sexual partners, alleged sexual actions or alleged sexual conduct, related matters, or paternity information.” Unless Trump’s attorneys were so incredibly sloppy that they merely copy-pasted boilerplate language into the nondisclosure agreement that had nothing to do with the affair, this implies that Trump got Daniels pregnant.

</CT hat on>

The biggest problem with this theory is that Trump has the worst attorney so yeah, he probably was sloppy.

Trumps non-responses and non-suit against Daniels merit some discussion though. It is out of character for him.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:44 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
On the contract itself. As I understand Daniels is saying it's invalid because the contract wasn't signed by Trump. But can't it be considered a valid contract if all the terms of it were fulfilled -she got the money so she is still bound by the terms even if the contract wasn't technically complete? IANAL so if someone is and can clarify, that would be great.
The analysis provided earlier in the link to Seth Abramson's twitter feed points out that: Trump did not need to sign it for it to be considered a valid contract (as representatives sign contracts all the time). But there is another problem... because Trump's lawyer created a corporation for the purposes of making payments, it is unclear whether Cohen was acting as Trump's lawyer (in which case he could sign for Trump) or as the representative of this dummy corporation (in which case he didn't have the right to represent trump.)

And even if Trump should have signed it, the fact that money was exchanged could make the contract valid. On the other hand, its also possible for the judge to simply consider the payment an "ill-informed gift".

I suspect that much of this will come down to the whims of the judge who rules on the case.

Quote:
Although, I think it's possible that her lawyer knows it might be held enforceable but knows that this little action will force Trump to respond and thus reveal that, yeah, he screwed Stormy Daniels.
Or, Trump will not bother enforcing it because he (or his lawyers) realize that in order to enforce it he'd have to appear in court.
Quote:
Why anyone cares about this very much at all is another question I have . . .
I already gave some reasons:
- It is hoped that it is the straw that broke the camel's back that may cause at least some Trump supporters to abandon Cheeto Mussolini
- Even if it won't affect Trump's actions as racist-in-chief, people get a certain amount of satisfaction when misfortune happens to bad people. Kind of like that classic movie clip when hitler got hit in the groin with a football.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:57 PM   #90
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Well, finally we get to hear first hand accounts of the sex life of a man in his 60s. About 65 when he fathered his last child. It may not be easy to get excited about the old in out at that age, but with up to three women servicing him, he may have managed intercourse on a weekly basis.
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:00 PM   #91
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Here's what I want to know:
Do the evangelical and GOP Trump supporters really think it's ok for a presidential candidate to pay hush money to cover up an affair?

I don't want to hear about Bill Clinton, or how they think I feel about it, I just want them to come out and say it: Yes, they think it is ok that Trump paid hush money to cover up an affair with a porn star. They just need to admit it.

Because, you know, if you ask me, I really don't care that he did it. I think it is funny. But growing up with people who are Trump supporters, I would find it amazing if they were to think it was funny.

This is just another example of something I've been saying all along: it's not about Trump. It's about the people who support him. For all the "evangelical christians" and "party of family values" crap we hear, to suddenly let it all go is the height of hypocrisy. I can say I didn't care about Clinton's affairs and I don't care about Trump. You might question my morals, but at least I am consistent. But for the GOP to turn a blind eye to this? Yeah, right.

Actually, it also shows consistency. They consistently have the standard, "If a democrat does it it's bad, but if a republican does it, no big deal"
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:25 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Short Dong Orange
Donny Choad.
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:37 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Were you saying that about the Clinton/Lewinsky scandle?
I know I was.

I was saying something else about the Clinton perjury scandal, though.

ETA: But hey, if you want me to treat the Trump-Daniels thing the way you treated the Clinton-Lewinsky thing, I think we can reach a mutually satisfying arrangement.

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Old 8th March 2018, 03:37 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Here's what I want to know:
Do the evangelical and GOP Trump supporters really think it's ok for a presidential candidate to pay hush money to cover up an affair?

I don't want to hear about Bill Clinton, or how they think I feel about it, I just want them to come out and say it: Yes, they think it is ok that Trump paid hush money to cover up an affair with a porn star. They just need to admit it.

Because, you know, if you ask me, I really don't care that he did it. I think it is funny. But growing up with people who are Trump supporters, I would find it amazing if they were to think it was funny.

This is just another example of something I've been saying all along: it's not about Trump. It's about the people who support him. For all the "evangelical christians" and "party of family values" crap we hear, to suddenly let it all go is the height of hypocrisy. I can say I didn't care about Clinton's affairs and I don't care about Trump. You might question my morals, but at least I am consistent. But for the GOP to turn a blind eye to this? Yeah, right.

Actually, it also shows consistency. They consistently have the standard, "If a democrat does it it's bad, but if a republican does it, no big deal"
Isn't the difference due to the nature of the offence?
Trump - prostitution
Clinton - rape
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:44 PM   #95
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Saying Monica raped him is going a bit to far.

Yeah, she seduced him.
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:51 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Saying Monica raped him is going a bit to far.

Yeah, she seduced him.
Oh, I was thinking about the others (broderick, flowers etc).
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:54 PM   #97
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I didn't care about the Lewinsky affair and I don't care about the Stormy Daniels affair. This is what guys with power do, Dem, Repub, sinner and saint. I do feel bad for the crap the families have to go through because we just love scandal so much.

I do care a bit more about the campaign finance stuff it might bring up; paying hush money right before the election could be argued as being campaign expenses. I mean, it just shows how dumb Trump is about this stuff. I also think campaign finance issues should be taken pretty seriously.

I care much less about the Bill Clinton lying under oath issue because I think people should get a pass on lying about affairs under oath. Like, duh, he's not gonna admit that where his wife can hear it!
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:54 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Here's what I want to know:
Do the evangelical and GOP Trump supporters really think it's ok for a presidential candidate to pay hush money to cover up an affair?

I don't want to hear about Bill Clinton, or how they think I feel about it, I just want them to come out and say it: Yes, they think it is ok that Trump paid hush money to cover up an affair with a porn star. They just need to admit it.

Because, you know, if you ask me, I really don't care that he did it. I think it is funny. But growing up with people who are Trump supporters, I would find it amazing if they were to think it was funny.

This is just another example of something I've been saying all along: it's not about Trump. It's about the people who support him. For all the "evangelical christians" and "party of family values" crap we hear, to suddenly let it all go is the height of hypocrisy. I can say I didn't care about Clinton's affairs and I don't care about Trump. You might question my morals, but at least I am consistent. But for the GOP to turn a blind eye to this? Yeah, right.

Actually, it also shows consistency. They consistently have the standard, "If a democrat does it it's bad, but if a republican does it, no big deal"
Yes,they do. The Evagelical Trump Supporters are giving us a display of hypocrisy the like of which we have not seen for a while.
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:55 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Isn't the difference due to the nature of the offence?
Trump - prostitution
Clinton - rape
I think it is more like:

TRump=Republican
Clinton= Democrat.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:11 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I do care a bit more about the campaign finance stuff it might bring up; paying hush money right before the election could be argued as being campaign expenses. I mean, it just shows how dumb Trump is about this stuff. I also think campaign finance issues should be taken pretty seriously.
There is a theory out there that says he did not really think that he would win the election. If he had lost then none of this would make any difference and we might not even know about it.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:29 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
As for Trump, who do you think will care about any of this aside from the people who already hate him?
Well, if the purpose of the hush money was to avoid a scandal that could possibly have influenced the result of the election, then it's legally a campaign expenditure, which has to be declared. If it's not declared (which it wasn't), then that's illegal. Also, if the money ultimately came from the Trump Organisation, then it would be an illegal campaign contribution. Furthermore, if it came from an individual (like Trump or Cohen), then it would be a campaign contribution - one that is also illegal.

So anybody who is concerned with the rule of law would be.

Quote:
Of all the crap Trump has been accused of though, screwing a porn star years before he ran for President smells of desperation more than anything. It's pathetic and I think it's funny that so many angry liberals think this matters or will change anything.
I agree that it's a small matter when weighed against other things to do with Trump. The only thing that's really of consequence is that it proves that Trump is open to blackmail over sexual matters, which is relevant to the accusations in the Steele dossier, which forms part of the ongoing investigation on Trump.

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More moral highground posturing as a setup for the upcoming impeachment?
I don't think any more moral high ground is required after "grab them by the pussy", is it? Having an affair is, to my mind, less egregious than boasting about sexual assault.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:32 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I care much less about the Bill Clinton lying under oath issue because I think people should get a pass on lying about affairs under oath. Like, duh, he's not gonna admit that where his wife can hear it!
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:34 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yes,they do. The Evagelical Trump Supporters are giving us a display of hypocrisy the like of which we have not seen for a while.
Do you have a cite? I don't think I've seen an "evangelical Trump supporter" here since sunmaster left.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:44 PM   #104
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Stormy Daniels Sues the President

Trump has to choose one of two paths now:

A) Admit to being "David Dennison" and to having contracted to keep certain compromising information secret

B) Deny being "David Dennison," thereby freeing “PP” to discuss her relationship with “DD” (and sell any materials worth selling to whichever tabloid will buy them)

The former path seems like the obvious choice, except that the way in which Cohen drafted this particular NDA—at that particular time and given subsequent events—is quite probably . . .

1) A failure to disclose a campaign contribution in violation of federal law (52 U.S.C. 30101 et. seq.)

2) A failure to disclose a campaign contribution in violation of analogous California election law

3) A violation of the relevant laws governing LLC's, since paying to cover up a crime (adultery in New York) is not a lawful purpose

At least these are the problems related in the latest episode of Opening Arguments, which I commend to your podcast queue.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:51 PM   #105
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I wonder about the alias too. Is "David Dennison" also a name I can find on IAFD?
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:06 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Trump has to choose one of two paths now:

A) Admit to being "David Dennison" and to having contracted to keep certain compromising information secret

B) Deny being "David Dennison," thereby freeing “PP” to discuss her relationship with “DD” (and sell any materials worth selling to whichever tabloid will buy them)
Isn't there a third?...

C) Do nothing.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:10 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Isn't there a third?...

C) Do nothing.
Yeah but he prefers:

Q) All of the above
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:17 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Isn't there a third?...



C) Do nothing.


Don’t think that’s an option unless they dismiss the suit.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:35 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you have a cite? I don't think I've seen an "evangelical Trump supporter" here since sunmaster left.
I think what they meant was 'An Evangelical Christian who is a Trump supporter', and not 'A person who is evangelical in their Trump support'. That's why the 'E' is capitalized.


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I don't care much about who cheats on who, but the legal questions about campaign donations and such are rather important.

It is also important to show that many of the objections of many right-wing Christians to Democrats, Progressives, LGBTQ etc for morality are outright dishonest. Such criticisms should be laughed at, and the credibility of people making them on politics greatly reduced.
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Old 8th March 2018, 06:17 PM   #110
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Clinton abused his position of power with Lewinsky but the Republicans in their quest to bring down Clinton had no qualms about destroying her reputation and humiliating her globally.
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Old 8th March 2018, 06:21 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Clinton abused his position of power with Lewinsky but the Republicans in their quest to bring down Clinton had no qualms about destroying her reputation and humiliating her globally.
Don't investigate sexual abuse, because it's bad for the victim?
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Old 8th March 2018, 06:29 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Don't investigate sexual abuse, because it's bad for the victim?
I don't recall saying that. Let me just check. No, I didn't say that.

All rape investigations make the victim's health and safety a priority. The Replublicans comletely ignored all that.
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Old 8th March 2018, 06:32 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I don't recall saying that. Let me just check. No, I didn't say that.

All rape investigations make the victim's health and safety a priority. The Replublicans comletely ignored all that.
But not the victim's reputation, surely. You weren't concerned about Lewinsky's health or safety, in your previous post.

Or do you mean that they didn't take sufficient precautions to prevent the Clintons from getting to her?

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Old 8th March 2018, 06:45 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But not the victim's reputation, surely. You weren't concerned about Lewinsky's health or safety, in your previous post.

Or do you mean that they didn't take sufficient precautions to prevent the Clintons from getting to her?
They made the trial a stage show. In Australia victims of sexual assault are protected from being identified if they want.
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Old 8th March 2018, 06:49 PM   #115
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https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018...e-age-of-metoo

Quote:
I found myself shaking his hand even as I struggled to decipher the warmth he evinced. After all, in 1998, this was the independent prosecutor who had investigated me, a former White House intern; the man whose staff, accompanied by a group of F.B.I. agents (Starr himself was not there), had hustled me into a hotel room near the Pentagon and informed me that unless I cooperated with them I could face 27 years in prison. This was the man who had turned my 24-year-old life into a living hell in his effort to investigate and prosecute President Bill Clinton on charges that would eventually include obstruction of justice and lying under oath—lying about having maintained a long-term extramarital relationship with me.
Not the usual way to treat the victim of sexual assault.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:18 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Not a fan of all this artist's work, but this one really says what most of us are thinking

You the Man!
No.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:26 PM   #117
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There's something I don't get, and I haven't noticed it in this thread, and I haven't seen it in the three or four articles that I have read on this affair.

What is the basis of Stormy Daniels' lawsuit? I don't mean "why is she suing?" That would be in order to generate money and publicity, or perhaps she just doesn't like the Commander in Chief, or whatever. What harm is she alleging that Donald Trump did to her?

I have read that she says the NDA is invalid. Ok. I don't know or care, but that isn't the basis for a lawsuit. What is it that Donald Trump did (or is alleged to have done) that makes for a reason to sue? To have a suit, the plaintiff has to allege that a tort was committed, and that she is owed compensation. What was the (alleged) tort?

ETA: As for the fact that Donald Trump slept with a porn star while his wife was home taking care of their newborn son.......meh. It shows he's a sleazeball. We already knew that. As for the fact that he paid her hush money.......meh. No big deal. As for the fact that he is denying that he knew the hush money was paid......



but it's no big deal.

The one thing that would change my mind that I can think of would be if he didn't use his own money to pay the hush money. If it came from his investors, or a charitable foundation, or campaign funds.........throw the book at him. That would be outrageous, but so far at least I'm assuming that it was his own money. If I'm wrong, and he actually stole the money for the hush money, then throw him out of office and into jail, but as long as it's his own money.....................meh.

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Old 8th March 2018, 09:56 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There's something I don't get, and I haven't noticed it in this thread, and I haven't seen it in the three or four articles that I have read on this affair.

What is the basis of Stormy Daniels' lawsuit? I don't mean "why is she suing?" That would be in order to generate money and publicity, or perhaps she just doesn't like the Commander in Chief, or whatever. What harm is she alleging that Donald Trump did to her?
None; it is a suit for declaratory relief.
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Old 8th March 2018, 10:26 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Surely arbitration, by definition, means they have to consider both sides?
Not really, if the arbitrators are influenced by fundage from the offender in the case - and they very often are. Actually arbitrator/arbitration is a very big fraud on "the little guy" it is actually why the side with power demands agreements to arbitration rather than trials when they can force arbitration.
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Old 8th March 2018, 10:28 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If you check out the analysis by Andrew Torrez at the Opening Arguments Podcast, you will see that Cohen is standing in for the LLC that transfered the money, but the deal is between PP and DD, not PP and the LLC or Cohen.
Neither Cohen nor the LLC can sue Daniels, only DD can.
As a side note: if the purpose of the LLC (which was created on the same day as the money transfer) was created for sending hush money to Daniels, that makes it an Illegal Enterprise since Adultery is illegal in New York: Cohen might very well lose his lisence over this.
We can but hope he does lose his license .....and, if we are lucky, get some nice time in a cell!!!!!
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