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Tags donald trump , lawsuits , Michael Cohen , Stephanie Clifford , Stormy Daniels , Trump controversies

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Old 9th March 2018, 08:01 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Wait, what is the crime being covered up?
Read the first two sentences of the post you are quoting.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:01 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Wait, what is the crime being covered up?
Adultery.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:07 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
So, the whole point of the suit is to get a judgement on whether or not the NDA is binding? That's fascinating, because of course the very act of filing the suit makes a non-disclosure agreement irrelevant for all practical purposes. She just disclosed everything she promised not to disclose.
No, not everything.

We have a saying on the internets, "Pix or it didn't happen."

https://twitter.com/Lawrence/status/...331750912?s=19
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:08 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Read the first two sentences of the post you are quoting.
I agree that paying the money is a crime. But the money itself wasn't paid to cover up a crime, right?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:14 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Wait, what is the crime being covered up?
In the United States, buying sex is illegal outside of a few particular places.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:15 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
In the United States, buying sex is illegal outside of a few particular places.
And that applies here ... how exactly ?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:19 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
And that applies here ... how exactly ?
While it is not impossible that the sex between Trump and Daniels was motivated by pure animal passion on her part, it seems fairly unlikely.

When she has fully disclosed the circumstances of their... relationship, it is likely to be revealed that she was compensated by Trump for sexual services before being paid to shut up about it.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:21 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
In the United States, buying sex is illegal outside of a few particular places.
As is adultery in New York.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:27 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
As is adultery in New York.
Basing a ruling on an unconstitutional law is not likely to be taken seriously.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:27 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If the settlement is valid, Trump will have illegally used campaign funds to pay hush money to cover up a crime. Cohen will have set up an illegal LLC.
It is in the best interest of Trump to deny that he is DD and thereby invalidate the settlement.
Excuse me, but are you sure that is right?

After all, it is quite legal for one person to give another person money provided that the money in question was obtained legally and that the money in question is not being used for some illegal purpose.

Also, has it been shown that the money provided to Stormy Daniels did come from the Trump Campaign? As far as I know, the money came from Cohen as opposed to the Trump Campaign.

As far as I can tell, while the Stormy Affair is in poor taste and its airing will cause personal problems for Trump and/or the Trump family, but it is hardly illegal for Trump to have a mistress and to pay that mistress for not blabbing about the relationship that they had back in 2006.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:29 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Basing a ruling on an unconstitutional law is not likely to be taken seriously.
I would absolutely love to see Cohen or Trump stand up for the constitituonal right to violate one's marital vows. Bring that **** on, I say.

ETA: Has some other plaintiff already done this?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:31 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
As far as I can tell, while the Stormy Affair is in poor taste and its airing will cause personal problems for Trump and/or the Trump family, but it is hardly illegal for Trump to have a mistress and to pay that mistress for not blabbing about the relationship that they had back in 2006.
Except Trump's goon lawyer claims that he, the lawyer, paid off Stormy, not Trump. According to some legal analysts, that constitutes an unreported campaign contribution, hence illegal.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:34 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
While it is not impossible that the sex between Trump and Daniels was motivated by pure animal passion on her part, it seems fairly unlikely.

When she has fully disclosed the circumstances of their... relationship, it is likely to be revealed that she was compensated by Trump for sexual services before being paid to shut up about it.
While I agree with the first part, I have doubts that whether this was technically prostitution or not will be relevant in any way. I could be wrong.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:37 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Nope.
NDA are about company secrets being kept out of the hands of competitors.
That is just one of the ways NDAs are used, NDAs are not limited to that.

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
In your examples, keeping the photos quiet until publication is part of the business of the media company. Similarly, Trump making the crew of The Apprentice sign NDAs to keep quite about who will get fired when is part of the business of the show.
Not wanting others to know that you got laid by a Porn Star is not part of your business unless you are in the Porn business - and Trump got out of that a long time ago.
Which is why a few of us have been mentioning that what was agreed was not really a NDA, it was a contract and as long as the contract is legal then it can bind the parties in anyway they have decided and signed.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:38 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Except Trump's goon lawyer claims that he, the lawyer, paid off Stormy, not Trump. According to some legal analysts, that constitutes an unreported campaign contribution, hence illegal.
That is a good point and you could be exactly right about the payment being an unreported campaign contribution. However, there is still some debate on the issue and as such the issue has not been settled.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:45 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Wait, what is the crime being covered up?
Adultery. It is illegal in New York.

I know it is weak, but as usual the cover-up is worse than the crime.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:47 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Adultery. It is illegal in New York.

I know it is weak, but as usual the cover-up is worse than the crime.
Holy cow!

Adultery is actually illegal in New York?

Gee whiz, then Trump must be in some serious trouble indeed because he had sex with quite a few different women over the years while he married and while he was in-between wives.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:49 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Excuse me, but are you sure that is right?

After all, it is quite legal for one person to give another person money provided that the money in question was obtained legally and that the money in question is not being used for some illegal purpose.

Also, has it been shown that the money provided to Stormy Daniels did come from the Trump Campaign? As far as I know, the money came from Cohen as opposed to the Trump Campaign.

As far as I can tell, while the Stormy Affair is in poor taste and its airing will cause personal problems for Trump and/or the Trump family, but it is hardly illegal for Trump to have a mistress and to pay that mistress for not blabbing about the relationship that they had back in 2006.
It is pretty irrelevant were the money came from: it was definitely used in an effort to affect the election by keeping an affair quiet just before the election. If this had been done right after the affair (years ago), this would have been a non-issue. But unless the entire Trump campaign staff was unaware of this transaction, it would have needed to be reported.
So unless Cohen didn't consult with Trump at all about this (which, given that there is a line for "DD" to sign seems highly improbable), keeping Stormy Daniels quiet is a campaign contribution of 130K, an amount that had to be reported.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:53 AM   #179
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As mentioned a couple of times, an actual lawyer has dissected the issue in great detail on his Law-podcast:
https://openargs.com/oa154-stormy-da...-legal-genius/

he considers this lawsuit the biggest threat to the Trump presidency so far. And he is not prone to hyperbole.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:00 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Also, has it been shown that the money provided to Stormy Daniels did come from the Trump Campaign? As far as I know, the money came from Cohen as opposed to the Trump Campaign.
...who was reportedly griping to colleagues that Trump hadn't yet reimbursed him in November '16. Given Trump's known propensity never to pay for anything himself and at least one suspiciously large payment of just over $130k from the Trump Campaign to Trump in late November '16, I'd say someone really ought to be looking hard at the numbers.

Which they're going to be doing anyway, because the Russians, this is just one more certainly unethical and potentially criminal act folding into all the others. Guess we'll find out which in the indictment.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:04 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Adultery. It is illegal in New York.

I know it is weak, but as usual the cover-up is worse than the crime.
Yes and adultery is legally rape in Michigan, these laws would be rapidly overturned if prosecutors ever charged anyone with them. It is like the laws against homosexual sex still on the books.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:09 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It is pretty irrelevant were the money came from: it was definitely used in an effort to affect the election by keeping an affair quiet just before the election. If this had been done right after the affair (years ago), this would have been a non-issue. But unless the entire Trump campaign staff was unaware of this transaction, it would have needed to be reported.
So unless Cohen didn't consult with Trump at all about this (which, given that there is a line for "DD" to sign seems highly improbable), keeping Stormy Daniels quiet is a campaign contribution of 130K, an amount that had to be reported.
Thanks so much for the clarification. I see your point.

Indeed, Trump could be in some serious trouble with the Stormy payment.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:10 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Incorrect. We have not had Trump confirm or Deny he is DD.
We do have a statement from the white house that "Trump won the arbitration", suggesting that yes, indeed he is the DD.

Quote:
If the NDA is invalid, she would likely return the money. I believe her attorney said that's not a problem.
Its probably not a problem, as she may earn a lot more from media interviews, book sales, etc.

But, as one analysis suggested, it may depend on the judge. Since some of the aspects of the case are so murky, the judge may determine rule that the money can be considered a "gift".

Quote:
If the NDA is valid, then she probably needs to STFU or gets hit with the million dollar per incident fine.
I don't believe she would be fined. Fines involve punishment for breaking criminal law; this case is more about civil/contract law. She might be sued for violating a valid agreement, but that would likely require Trump to show up in court and/or disclose things he would consider embarrassing.

Quote:
If so, many people have made the argument that they don't believe it will matter much. I tend to agree, people have accepted that trump is a sleazy adulterer. This admission likely won't change any minds.
Once again... while most Trump supporters won't be swayed, it may cause a few to become disillusioned. Death by a thousand paper cuts.

And even if it doesn't change his level of support, the fact that it is bothering Trump provides some satisfaction. Trump is bad... he is a racist/bigot, and his policies have harmed (or will harm) millions of people. If we can't stop him we can at least get some enjoyment out of seeing him suffer too. Like the film of Hitler getting hit in the groin with a football.

Of course, this is assuming that Trump doesn't suffer long term legal problems (such as being found guilty of fraud) over the issue.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:14 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes and adultery is legally rape in Michigan, these laws would be rapidly overturned if prosecutors ever charged anyone with them. It is like the laws against homosexual sex still on the books.
That is irrelevant in this case, unless Trump can get the Supreme Court to overturn them before he paid hush money to cover up the crime.
he would have to allow the Judges to use the Pentagon's time machine.

As mentioned: even if he would never get convicted for the underlying crime, he can certainly be charged for the cover-up.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:21 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
We do have a statement from the white house that "Trump won the arbitration", suggesting that yes, indeed he is the DD.
Well, we also have statements that the President denies any sexual relations with Daniels.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I don't believe she would be fined. Fines involve punishment for breaking criminal law; this case is more about civil/contract law. She might be sued for violating a valid agreement, but that would likely require Trump to show up in court and/or disclose things he would consider embarrassing.
Yes, I was being innacurate. She will be subject to the penalty as defined in the agreement. IANAL, but I don't guess that it would require more then Cohen to go in front of an arbitrator and show evidence the agreement was broken.

I guess that's one of the major issues - does Cohen have standing, by himself, to do all this without requiring DD/trump.

I guess that's what the Judge will tell us, and the dominoes will fall from there.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:22 AM   #186
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This is going to put Republicans in the position of opposing laws against campaign financing and election influencing, all to help an old idiot cover up a tawdry extra-marital affair. This is way more serious than your run-of-the-mill sex scandal.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:24 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
As mentioned a couple of times, an actual lawyer has dissected the issue in great detail on his Law-podcast:
https://openargs.com/oa154-stormy-da...-legal-genius/

he considers this lawsuit the biggest threat to the Trump presidency so far. And he is not prone to hyperbole.
Seconded. Excellent episode.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:27 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
I guess that's one of the major issues - does Cohen have standing, by himself, to do all this without requiring DD/trump.
Cohen will very likely be disbarred by the end of this. He'll be lucky if that's all that happens to him.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:38 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That is irrelevant in this case, unless Trump can get the Supreme Court to overturn them before he paid hush money to cover up the crime.
he would have to allow the Judges to use the Pentagon's time machine.

As mentioned: even if he would never get convicted for the underlying crime, he can certainly be charged for the cover-up.
And that is the case even if covering up a legal but embarrassing act.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:41 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And that is the case even if covering up a legal but embarrassing act.
not quite: if Cohen set up the LLC as the means to transfer hush money in the coverup, that makes the LLC an illegal enterprise which makes Cohen liable and makes it really easy for investigators to make Delaware release all the data they have on other LLCs set up by Cohen. This could snowball into so much **** it will make the current Mueller probe look tiny.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:45 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Read the first two sentences of the post you are quoting.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:49 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What are you talking about?
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:50 AM   #193
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:50 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Cohen will very likely be disbarred by the end of this. He'll be lucky if that's all that happens to him.
If so, I'm sure he can make a comfortable living milking the treasure trove of Trump dirty secrets.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:57 AM   #195
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
not quite: if Cohen set up the LLC as the means to transfer hush money in the coverup, that makes the LLC an illegal enterprise which makes Cohen liable and makes it really easy for investigators to make Delaware release all the data they have on other LLCs set up by Cohen. This could snowball into so much **** it will make the current Mueller probe look tiny.
Sure the illegal campaign contribution.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:05 AM   #196
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why are people distorting New York law to assert that Trump did something illegal?

Trump was married in Florida.
The plaintiff alleges that she is a citizen of Texas who resides in California
The complaint was filed in California and alleges that Trump laid the pipe in California and Nevada.
The settlement agreement is between her and a Delaware LLC.
the settlement agreement requires venue in Arizona, Cali or Nevada and states that those states law apply.

Anyone claiming New York adultery law should apply is patently absurd.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:06 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Quote:
Cohen will very likely be disbarred by the end of this. He'll be lucky if that's all that happens to him.
If so, I'm sure he can make a comfortable living milking the treasure trove of Trump dirty secrets.
Not sure, but since he would have been acting as Trump's lawyer (acting under lawyer-client privilege), if he reveals secrets he might end up getting sued (even if he was already disbarred).

But then, I'm not a lawyer.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:20 AM   #198
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
why are people distorting New York law to assert that Trump did something illegal?

Trump was married in Florida.
The plaintiff alleges that she is a citizen of Texas who resides in California
The complaint was filed in California and alleges that Trump laid the pipe in California and Nevada.
The settlement agreement is between her and a Delaware LLC.
the settlement agreement requires venue in Arizona, Cali or Nevada and states that those states law apply.

Anyone claiming New York adultery law should apply is patently absurd.
In cases involving family law and related matters, which courts should have jurisdiction over married couples residing in New York?
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Last edited by d4m10n; 9th March 2018 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:27 AM   #199
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
In cases involving family law and related matters, which courts should have jurisdiction over married couples residing in New York?
Under the principles of comity, New York should apply Florida law to Florida citizens married in Florida but residing in New York.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:33 AM   #200
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Under the principles of comity, New York should apply Florida law to Florida citizens married in Florida but residing in New York.
He filed his taxes as a New York resident, last I checked.
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