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Old 9th March 2018, 06:35 AM   #1
MikeG
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The easter bunny: tell the truth........

..........and we'll take your kids off you.

Seriously, what is the story of the easter bunny all about? No one has ever told me anything about it. The words "easter bunny" have never passed my lips, so did I do something wrong by not lying to my kids?
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:48 AM   #2
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That's ridiculous.

And contrary to the Santa thing, I've always assumed that nobody ever actually believed in the Easter bunny, and that even kids play along.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:53 AM   #3
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Plenty of kids did (in past generations) and still do (present generation) believe that the Easter Bunny is a real entity. But like Santa, the belief doesn't last for very long.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:57 AM   #4
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Sounds like their 'case worker' needs to be committed.

Or become a burger flipper.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:18 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Sounds like their 'case worker' needs to be committed.

Or become a burger flipper.
Absolutely!
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:24 AM   #6
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I wondered too. Then I found out he was hiding the eggs so nobody would find out what he had been doing with the chickens.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:44 AM   #7
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There is a lack of comment by the agent in the article, but some from the head of the agency. I wonder if the agent went rogue or got thrown under the bus.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:47 AM   #8
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The case worker presumably meant that the foster parents were to some degree causing the kids to be ostracized, or at least made to feel left out. Acknowledging that it was handled unconstructively, did the case worker have a point?
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The case worker presumably meant that the foster parents were to some degree causing the kids to be ostracized, or at least made to feel left out. Acknowledging that it was handled unconstructively, did the case worker have a point?
The potential for ostracization by fellow kindergarteners due to differing philosophical positions on the existence of magical hares and/or rabbits, during the roughly three days a year these creatures are relevant to children is a terrible, terrible reason to break up a family.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There is a lack of comment by the agent in the article, but some from the head of the agency. I wonder if the agent went rogue or got thrown under the bus.
I have no opinion on this.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:03 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
The potential for ostracization by fellow kindergarteners due to differing philosophical positions on the existence of magical hares and/or rabbits, during the roughly three days a year these creatures are relevant to children is a terrible, terrible reason to break up a family.
Yes, it was horrifically counterproductive to do that, and the article doesn't say that the kids were returned, a double screwing. But should fosters have an obligation to raise their wards within social norms in these petty situations?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:03 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I have no opinion on this.
I didn't ask you for one.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I have no opinion on this.
You're not measuring this?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:05 AM   #14
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In terms of pure entertainment value, telling kids the lie about the time when 1/3rd of god was brutally tortured to death, dying during a total eclipse while there's also a massive earthquake, and resurrected as a zombie along with a lot of other zombies is way, way cooler, anyway.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, it was horrifically counterproductive to do that, and the article doesn't say that the kids were returned, a double screwing. But should fosters have an obligation to raise their wards within social norms in these petty situations?
Nobody should.
It's their job to raise the kids and they don't have a greater obligation than biological parents have to conform to every single social norm/stereotype.
If not liking the Easter bunny is reason enough to discipline foster parents, then what's next? Foster dads with long hair and heavy metal shirts are told to look presentable? Moms teaching aroma therapy 'have to get a real job'? A strict set of rules for what the tooth fairy can an can't do and how much she pays for each tooth?

Sure, you could call this a slippery slope fallacy, but if we start taking kids away because foster parents won't tell them a magical bunny hides chocolate (because that's against their belief that there's actually a magical man who came back from the dead) then we don't really have anywhere left to slide to.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Nobody should.
It's their job to raise the kids and they don't have a greater obligation than biological parents have to conform to every single social norm/stereotype.
If not liking the Easter bunny is reason enough to discipline foster parents, then what's next? Foster dads with long hair and heavy metal shirts are told to look presentable? Moms teaching aroma therapy 'have to get a real job'? A strict set of rules for what the tooth fairy can an can't do and how much she pays for each tooth?

Sure, you could call this a slippery slope fallacy, but if we start taking kids away because foster parents won't tell them a magical bunny hides chocolate (because that's against their belief that there's actually a magical man who came back from the dead) then we don't really have anywhere left to slide to.
I think they do. A biological parent may be an addict and to some extent neglectful to their own children. Fosters, because of the State involvement, may not be so.

There is a weird line in there for foster duties that I am wondering about.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:33 AM   #17
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You only highlighted part of a sentence... Of course foster parents shouldn't be on drugs, or criminals, or neglectful. I was only saying that perfectly conforming to every tiny social norm isn't necessary.
I'd even say that it's impossible.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:38 AM   #18
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To be honest, the ruling is pretty bad, or else the reporting is:

Quote:
Justice Andrew Goodman wrote in a scathing decision released on Tuesday: "There is ample evidence to support the fact that the children were removed because the Baars refused to either tell or imply that the Easter Bunny was delivering chocolate to the Baars' home.

"I am more than satisfied that the society actions interfered substantially with the Baars' religious beliefs."

As devout Reformed Presbyterians, Derek and Frances Baars said they did not believe in celebrating Halloween or lying about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.
But wait,....if it doesn't interfere with my religious beliefs and I still tell my foster kids that there is no Santa or Easter Bunny, can there still be grounds for the kids being taken away?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
You only highlighted part of a sentence... Of course foster parents shouldn't be on drugs, or criminals, or neglectful. I was only saying that perfectly conforming to every tiny social norm isn't necessary.
I'd even say that it's impossible.
Not the point. Say prospective foster parents had really off-the-wall beliefs, far outside social norms and standards, that they demanded the children participate in. What standards should a foster family be held to?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:52 AM   #20
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That wasn't what you were talking about.
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But should fosters have an obligation to raise their wards within social norms in these petty situations?
I do believe that, as you're asking now, if foster parents have habits or beliefs that are harmful to the children, action should be taken.
And we have courts to review cases like that.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:02 AM   #21
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As usual, there is a wee bit more to the story. The foster father is Pastor in Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, which does not celebrate Christmas or Easter, thinks that the US Constitution should be amended to include a requirement that the Government submit to Jesus, and explicitly states that the Pope is the anti-Christ.

So, basically not big party people
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
As usual, there is a wee bit more to the story. The foster father is Pastor in Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, which does not celebrate Christmas or Easter, thinks that the US Constitution should be amended to include a requirement that the Government submit to Jesus, and explicitly states that the Pope is the anti-Christ.

So, basically not big party people
So? How is it relevant when this is in Canada? Besides, one manís religion is another manís belly laugh and all that. Who cares about the specifics of this belly laugh?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
...... I was only saying that perfectly conforming to every tiny social norm isn't necessary.........
Is the easter bunny thing really a social norm? I had to look it up on wikipedia to find out what it was all about. Seriously. No-one has ever talked about the easter bunny to me, or in my earshot. How widespread a thing is it?
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:17 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Is the easter bunny thing really a social norm? I had to look it up on wikipedia to find out what it was all about. Seriously. No-one has ever talked about the easter bunny to me, or in my earshot. How widespread a thing is it?
Thatís you off the foster parent list!
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:17 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So? How is it relevant when this is in Canada? Besides, one manís religion is another manís belly laugh and all that. Who cares about the specifics of this belly laugh?
Wait, you ignored the part about them not celebrating Christmas and Easter? That is a bit... odd.

I cited the US Constitution just to add insight, this Church thinks that all civil governments should submit to Jesus.

Further, the belly laugh thing is also odd as well, given that the people were suing for having their religious rights violated and the entire issue involved the celebration of a religious holiday.

These are just facts. do with them what you wish.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:20 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait, you ignored the part about them not celebrating Christmas and Easter? That is a bit... odd.

I cited the US Constitution just to add insight, this Church thinks that all civil governments should submit to Jesus.

Further, the belly laugh thing is also odd as well, given that the people were suing for having their religious rights violated and the entire issue involved the celebration of a religious holiday.

These are just facts. do with them what you wish.
Surprised there aren't more anti religious comments here to gripe about?

I don't agree with the man's religion, but I also don't think there should be religious requirements for foster care.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:27 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I don't agree with the man's religion, but I also don't think there should be religious requirements for foster care.
This is foster care, foster parents may come to care, temporarily for Children that are of faiths different from the foster parent, and therefore I am CERTAIN that you can easily imagine a scenario where there would be a requirement that the foster parents not impose their own (in this case warped) religious views on the foster children.

Say, if it was an atheist child, would you want freakshows foster parents to impose their snake handling religious beliefs on the child, right?

Of course I am right.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:28 AM   #28
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And then there are the insidious tricks with which parents make the existence of Santa or the Easter Bunny more credible: putting out a glass of Sherry for Santa which (miraculously!) is empty in the morning and hiding a partially eaten carrot together with the Easter Eggs.

BTW, I quite like this tricks: otherwise the kids have nothing to think about.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:34 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Thatís you off the foster parent list!
TFFT
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:37 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
..... if it was an atheist child, would you want freakshows foster parents to impose their snake handling religious beliefs on the child, right?.......
I don't get your point. "Atheist child" is meaningless, in that young enough all children are atheist. Religious indoctrination usually takes a few years to have effect.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait, you ignored the part about them not celebrating Christmas and Easter? That is a bit... odd.

I cited the US Constitution just to add insight, this Church thinks that all civil governments should submit to Jesus.

Further, the belly laugh thing is also odd as well, given that the people were suing for having their religious rights violated and the entire issue involved the celebration of a religious holiday.

These are just facts. do with them what you wish.
I already quoted stuff about Christmas and Easter. Whatís your point? That foster parents have to agree that fairy tales are true now? The kids are three and five. What kind of devout religious beliefs will they have been indoctrinated by this point?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:39 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Is the easter bunny thing really a social norm?
I think it depends where you are. Absent the writings of Charles M. Schultz I don't think I'd have heard of it before the advent of the Internet.

Dave
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:40 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I don't get your point. "Atheist child" is meaningless, in that young enough all children are atheist. Religious indoctrination usually takes a few years to have effect.
Assume that this one was precocious, a real go-getter in terms of atheism.

(or realize that the foster care service provides for care for children into their teenage years?)
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:40 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Whatís your point?
I think the point is that there haven't been any anti-religious comments to get upset about, so it's necessary to invent some.

Dave
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:40 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
This is foster care, foster parents may come to care, temporarily for Children that are of faiths different from the foster parent, and therefore I am CERTAIN that you can easily imagine a scenario where there would be a requirement that the foster parents not impose their own (in this case warped) religious views on the foster children.

Say, if it was an atheist child, would you want these freakshows foster parents to impose their snake handling religious beliefs on the child, right?

Of course I am right.
I'd prefer it if nobody did. And these Presbyterian people appear to have made concessions. They celebrated Christmas with the children, and were willing to celebrate Easter. They just drew the line at telling the children that Santa and the Easter bunny exist.

And it would probably be best to place kids in a foster home that most closely resembles what they're used to. Placing Hindu kids in a Catholic household, or even placing a protestant kid with a family with an incompatible version of protestantism could cause problems.

If that's not possible, then the solution is for the foster parents to respect the beliefs of the child's biological family and/or not make a big deal of religion at all.
I'd say that the family in this story has demonstrated their willingness to accept the kids' religion/culture by celebrating holidays that they normally wouldn't.

But I do not want a law that outright prevents people with certain religions from being (foster) parents. Separation of church and state and all that.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:41 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I think the point is that there haven't been any anti-religious comments to get upset about, so it's necessary to invent some.

Dave
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:45 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I think it depends where you are. Absent the writings of Charles M. Schultz I don't think I'd have heard of it before the advent of the Internet.

Dave
Him, Dr Zeuss, and the Simpsons: that about covers everything you need to know about the USA, doesn't it?
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:46 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I already quoted stuff about Christmas and Easter. Whatís your point? That foster parents have to agree that fairy tales are true now? The kids are three and five. What kind of devout religious beliefs will they have been indoctrinated by this point?
bit ironic given what these foster parents actually believe, no?

But maybe I am all wet about this! It seems to me that a great religious recruitment strategy is to start baptising foster atheist babies by the bus load!

Thanks fellas, for helping me see the "light'!
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:48 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Him, Dr Zeuss, and the Simpsons: that about covers everything you need to know about the USA, doesn't it?
No. You need Watterson too.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
If that's not possible, then the solution is for the foster parents to respect the beliefs of the child's biological family and/or not make a big deal of religion at all.
That is precisely what i have been trying to explain in response to your assertion that "I also don't think there should be religious requirements for foster care."

Yes there should be, namely that the foster parents should not proselytize their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) on the foster children!

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Bingo.
Face palm.
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