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Old 11th March 2018, 08:07 AM   #121
William Parcher
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So it's like a UK hatred of America but in addition a UK ignorance and detachment from their own culture. A WTF stacked on a WTF.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:11 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Yes. State social workers supervising foster parents are rather notorious in the USA for actively working against foster parents establishing any lasting relationship with the kids. Especially if they hear the dreaded A-word -- Adoption. They'll yank the kids instantly if the foster parents seem remotely interested in that. The cynic in me wants to think they are preserving the status quo to protect their jobs. In reality...well, I can't think of any other reason.
How about they want to keep the foster parents on tap for the next kid needing one?
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:12 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
As I said, just Google "England Easter Dinner Recipes". Lamb is fairly prominent. I stumbled across it, originally, when trying to see if there was any logic to Americans going all Easter Bunny and Brits ignoring it. A number of lists of things associated with Easter in England included roast lamb. (I'll concede that the timing - being the spring, or at least what you folks refer to as "spring" - probably makes lamb a pretty popular choice and there is that Sunday Roast tradition*.)

*Now someone's gonna come tell me you don't do Sunday Roasts.
Oh, I'm sure that there are a shedload of recipes of the sort you describe and specifically for Easter dinner - especially from TV or newspaper cooks who are going to be looking for themes to hang programmes/articles on.

However, I haven't come across anyone who actually has anything to do with "an Easter dinner". With the possible exception of those in the catering trade.

And as you say, roast lamb for Sunday Lunch on the Sunday that just happens to be Easter Sunday, would be quite common.

I don't know anyone who does Lent seriously* though - I guess that might make a difference.


*A handful give up chocolate (I nearly capitalised that word, which possibly says something about that) but it's not exactly fasting, or even restricting oneself to dull food.

For comparison, I do know a fair number of colleagues who take Ramadan seriously, and I probably know almost as many devout Christians as Muslims.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:19 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
So it's like a UK hatred of America but in addition a UK ignorance and detachment from their own culture. A WTF stacked on a WTF.
I don't see any hatred of the US, nor do I see an ignorance of UK culture.

I do see a criticism of the actions described in the OP, where it was considered bad to say that the Easter Bunny wasn't real, and that was on a par with saying that Santa* wasn't real. As far as I can tell, the overwhelming majority of UK kids who believe in Santa, had not even considered believing in the Easter Bunny.


*I managed to sidestep that one, saying that some people believed and some didn't.


ETA: I'm pretty sure abaddon is not British, so has no special reason to know about UK culture.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:25 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The consumer really gets their moneys worth. It's a great time for kids and parents. So much fun and love and chocolate and marshmallow. It's an American tradition to make colored Easter Eggs.

...
The tradition goes back to Europe. Ukraine is known for coloring eggs as a fine art. And my Lithuanian ancestors did it too. Dabbing candle wax onto eggs with the head of a pin makes a resist for the dye. Add layers of colors and more wax patterns. Quite beautiful art of playing with your food. Cold boiled eggs are one of my comfort foods.

https://www.slideshare.net/giedregie...s-in-lithuania Check out slide #13, the Easter Granny gives the eggs to good children. I think I prefer the bunny.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:27 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Paschal Eggs go back farther than that, at least sort of.

History of religion trivia time. You might know this. Lots of other people will. Some will not. Here goes.

The Hebrew word for Passover is Pesach. From that, we get "paschal". It means, "of Pesach".

On Pesach (yes, we still call it Pesach), we have a seder plate. One of the items on it is an egg. I don't know exactly when the egg became part of the seder plate, but it was at least earlier than the 4th century. The association of Easter with eggs is at least that old.

And of course eggs have a rather obvious connection with new life, and in some traditions rebirth, so it works pretty well. In other words eggs and Easter didn't have one, single, pre-Christian association. There were multiple sources.

We do not have a rabbit on the seder plate, so I don't know where that came from.
Isn't "Pasche" the big egg dye brand? Kits with tablets of vegetable dyes and little wire loops to support the eggs in the hot dye mix.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:32 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Isn't "Pasche" the big egg dye brand? Kits with tablets of vegetable dyes and little wire loops to support the eggs in the hot dye mix.
No, you are thinking of Paas brand.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:43 AM   #128
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Quote from the history of Paas egg dye...

Originally Posted by PAAS
Soon, Mr. Townley realized that he had a wonderful product that other families would like to use to brighten their Easter tradition. He renamed his business the PAAS Dye Company. The name PAAS comes from “Passen,” the word that his Pennsylvania Dutch neighbors used for Easter.

Today, Americans purchase more than 10 million PAAS Easter Egg Color Kits during the Easter season, and use them to decorate as many as 180 million eggs!

Now—More than 135 years later—we believe Mr. Townley would be proud of PAAS perfect colors. The original is still the best!
http://paaseastereggs.com/history
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:50 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I strongly suspect that there is a lot more to the OP story than not teaching them about the Easter Bunny. The symbol of the Easter Bunny would be universally recognized in the US and Canada, but belief is much rarer, and the idea that foster parents would have kids taken away for not teaching it begs credulity. I think there are parts of the story missing.
I kind of wonder the same thing. Maybe this was just an example the social services people used to say the foster parents were mean spirited. When kids are getting excited about the Easter bunny coming (or Santa, or the tooth fairy, etc.) telling them that it doesn't exist is kind of mean. Even if the kids might not really believe there is a magic rabbit that brings candy and eggs. Kids are smarter than they get credit for. They look forward to the Easter bunny even when they know it's really mom and dad. It's a game, really. Make believe.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:59 AM   #130
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What goyishe mishigas is this?
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Old 11th March 2018, 09:09 AM   #131
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Spit-roasted lamb or goat is the Easter lunch of choice here in Greece. This is usually accompanied by spit-roasted kokoretsi, which is goat or lamb liver, pancreas, lung, brain etc, bound with the animal's intestine. It's fabulous, in case you're wondering.

The dyed-egg thing is also normal, but it's the 'egg-tapping' kind. Last egg standing confers a year's good luck on its owner. Then you eat them (the eggs, not the winner)

Lent here is a progressive thing - you're supposed to give up more and more stuff as it progresses. Or something. Bugger that nonsense.
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Old 11th March 2018, 09:20 AM   #132
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I grew up unsure of what Lent actually was. Round our way, some religious activities to do with Easter were strictly for the Catholics.
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Old 11th March 2018, 09:32 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
What are your feelings about Halloween, as an Australian?

I had a friend in Oz several years ago who was kind of livid about this "awful American holiday" where "children are encouraged to beg door to door" showing up in Australia. lol
Wow, it sounds like your Australian friend is one of those special people who could truly benefit from another American Halloween tradition. Has he had his house and car egged and his trees toilet papered yet?! ...for in America you must learn to just smile and roll with it or you can get rolled.

(This post is for educational purposes only and should not be in any way construed as the poster actually encouraging or condoning acts of vandalism that could result in some sort of international incident. ...lol)

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Old 11th March 2018, 09:42 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
Wow, it sounds like your Australian friend is one of those special people who could truly benefit from another American Halloween tradition. Has he had his house and car egged and his trees toilet papered yet?! ...for in America you must learn to just smile and roll with it or you can get rolled.

(This post is for educational purposes only and should not be in any way construed as the poster actually encouraging or condoning acts of vandalism that could result in some sort international incident. ...lol)
Makes Halloween sound like a purge. One day a year the children get to swarm the streets, demanding free stuff and menacing people with acts of vandalism if they don't comply. And they learn that's fine because they're becoming monsters for the night so there's no comeback.
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Old 11th March 2018, 10:15 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Makes Halloween sound like a purge. One day a year the children get to swarm the streets, demanding free stuff and menacing people with acts of vandalism if they don't comply. And they learn that's fine because they're becoming monsters for the night so there's no comeback.
"What happens on Halloween stays on Halloween."

By the way, I just checked my calendar. This year Easter comes on April Fool's day. Hmmmmm....now I wonder if the original was just an Aprils Fool's prank, and the Christians never got the joke?

Anybody still got a year 0 calendar hanging to check?
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Old 11th March 2018, 10:26 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
The tradition goes back to Europe. Ukraine is known for coloring eggs as a fine art. And my Lithuanian ancestors did it too. Dabbing candle wax onto eggs with the head of a pin makes a resist for the dye. Add layers of colors and more wax patterns. Quite beautiful art of playing with your food. Cold boiled eggs are one of my comfort foods.

https://www.slideshare.net/giedregie...s-in-lithuania Check out slide #13, the Easter Granny gives the eggs to good children. I think I prefer the bunny.
Decorating eggs as a symbol of spring and rebirth is a tradition much older than Christianity.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:20 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
So it's like a UK hatred of America but in addition a UK ignorance and detachment from their own culture. A WTF stacked on a WTF.
I think you just plucked that out of the air. No-one has said anything about hating American culture. There is a hatred here of everything being turned into a shopping opportunity, that's all. If American culture = shopping, then maybe you should start a little introspection about your values. However, I'm pretty certain there's more to your culture than that.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:35 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
"What happens on Halloween stays on Halloween."

By the way, I just checked my calendar. This year Easter comes on April Fool's day. Hmmmmm....now I wonder if the original was just an Aprils Fool's prank, and the Christians never got the joke?

Anybody still got a year 0 calendar hanging to check?
You'd want a year 33 (or there abouts) calender to check, not year 0.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:43 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I think you just plucked that out of the air. No-one has said anything about hating American culture. There is a hatred here of everything being turned into a shopping opportunity, that's all. If American culture = shopping, then maybe you should start a little introspection about your values. However, I'm pretty certain there's more to your culture than that.
Apparently not enthusiastically embracing corporate interpretations of traditions that originated in our countries, were carried to America, filtered through their own popular culture and then turned into opportunities to sell chocolate in industrial quantities by soulless marketing executives equals "hating America".
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:46 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The case worker presumably meant that the foster parents were to some degree causing the kids to be ostracized, or at least made to feel left out. Acknowledging that it was handled unconstructively, did the case worker have a point?

No.
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Old 11th March 2018, 12:34 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Apparently not enthusiastically embracing corporate interpretations of traditions that originated in our countries, were carried to America, filtered through their own popular culture and then turned into opportunities to sell chocolate in industrial quantities by soulless marketing executives equals "hating America".
Is this, like, the Marxist critique of secular Easter?
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Old 11th March 2018, 12:44 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Is this, like, the Marxist critique of secular Easter?
Describing marketing people as 'soulless' doesn't make one a Marxist, it just means you've paid attention to the required qualifications for the job.
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Old 11th March 2018, 12:54 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Describing marketing people as 'soulless' doesn't make one a Marxist, it just means you've paid attention to the required qualifications for the job.
But you're talking about capitalism and globalization.

Those are the mechanisms by which the tacky American holiday crap makes it into the stores in other countries.
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Old 11th March 2018, 03:04 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Apparently not enthusiastically embracing corporate interpretations of traditions that originated in our countries, were carried to America, filtered through their own popular culture and then turned into opportunities to sell chocolate in industrial quantities by soulless marketing executives equals "hating America".
And it's terrible chocolate, at that.
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Old 11th March 2018, 03:10 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And it's terrible chocolate, at that.
Why do you hate America?
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Old 11th March 2018, 03:33 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And it's terrible chocolate, at that.
Not always, not in Europe anyway. We use our own, from (in the UK) Cadbury's for the kids and mass market to much better stuff from the likes of Thorntons and Green & Blacks for grownups willing to spend a bit more.
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Old 11th March 2018, 03:38 PM   #147
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One of my favorite quotes from Southpark:

" ..... somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross and a giant bunny hiding eggs there seems to be a... a gap of information. "
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Old 11th March 2018, 03:42 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Quote from the history of Paas egg dye...
Quote:
Soon, Mr. Townley realized that he had a wonderful product that other families would like to use to brighten their Easter tradition. He renamed his business the PAAS Dye Company. The name PAAS comes from “Passen,” the word that his Pennsylvania Dutch neighbors used for Easter.

Today, Americans purchase more than 10 million PAAS Easter Egg Color Kits during the Easter season, and use them to decorate as many as 180 million eggs!

Now—More than 135 years later—we believe Mr. Townley would be proud of PAAS perfect colors. The original is still the best!
http://paaseastereggs.com/history
Two remarks to that story:
(1) The Dutch name of Eastern is Pasen with a single 's'. "Paas" would be the singular, which doesn't exist as an actual word but does turn up in combinations like paasei = easter egg or paashaas = easter bunny.

(2) The Pennsylvania Dutch were actually German immigrants, from the Palatinate, and the German word for Eastern is Ostern. Mr. Townley's neighbors must have been (descendants of) actual Dutch immigrants.

We do know the concept of an easter bunny who hides the (painted) easter eggs, but that's about the extent of him/her. He mainly manifests himself in chocolate form.

As to Halloween: that has been recently become somewhat popular around here too. The traditional day, however, that kids go round the neighborhood and collect candy is St. Martin's Day. I think it would be a pity if local traditions progressively disappear and get replaced by "global", i.e., American, traditions.
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Old 11th March 2018, 03:44 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Not always, not in Europe anyway. We use our own, from (in the UK) Cadbury's for the kids and mass market to much better stuff from the likes of Thorntons and Green & Blacks for grownups willing to spend a bit more.
Cough cough. Cadbury:
Quote:
Cadbury, formerly Cadbury's, is a British multinational confectionery company wholly owned by Mondelez International (originally Kraft Foods) since 2010.
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Old 11th March 2018, 04:17 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
T.......

We do know the concept of an easter bunny who hides the (painted) easter eggs, but that's about the extent of him/her. He mainly manifests himself in chocolate form.
....
And at other times me and Jimmy Stewart we call him Harvey. We are drinking buddies.
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Old 11th March 2018, 04:33 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Cough cough. Cadbury:
Cough cough

Quote:
Cadbury, formerly Cadbury's, is a British multinational confectionery
It may now be foriegn owned, most of our companies seem to be, but it's still British, ie, based in Britain and making British style chocolate as it has done for over a hundred years. If a non American bought Hershey would that stop their distinctive soured milk based chocolate from being American?
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:29 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Quote from the history of Paas egg dye...



http://paaseastereggs.com/history
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:37 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
"What happens on Halloween stays on Halloween."

By the way, I just checked my calendar. This year Easter comes on April Fool's day. Hmmmmm....now I wonder if the original was just an Aprils Fool's prank, and the Christians never got the joke?

Anybody still got a year 0 calendar hanging to check?
That's exactly what I said to my mom. "HA HA! I'm back! April Fools!" My mom laughed, but my departed grandma would have thought it blasphemy. She took it a bit more serious.

We definitely followed Lent. Including the ash on the forehead, which non-Catholics would get a little creeped out by.
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:41 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Cough cough



It may now be foriegn owned, most of our companies seem to be, but it's still British, ie, based in Britain and making British style chocolate as it has done for over a hundred years. If a non American bought Hershey would that stop their distinctive soured milk based chocolate from being American?
And if Budweiser was owned by someone in Belgium, would it still be terrible?
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:28 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
ETA: I do wonder if Easter being a festival associated with the Spring Equinox did help with the "lamb of God" idea.

It didn't "help with" the idea. It was the idea.

The Jewish tradition was to sacrifice a lamb at Pesach (i.e. at Passover). I don't know the exact rules on which parts of it you could eat, and which parts were burned and/or given to the priests at the temple, so I don't know how much of it was "sacrifice" and how much of it was "prepared and eaten". One way or another, lambs were on the dinner plate of someone at that time of year. That lamb was the "Paschal Lamb", i.e. the lamb of Pesach.

When Jesus was executed at Pesach, his followers started talking about Jesus as the Passover sacrifice. Instead of sacrificing a lamb, Jesus was sacrificed. i.e. He took the place of the paschal lamb.

I never knew any of this before I married a Jew and started playing along with Jewish rituals and traditions. I knew that Jesus was the "paschal lamb", but I never new what "paschal" meant. I thought it had something to do with ministry.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 11th March 2018 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 11th March 2018, 10:36 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It didn't "help with" the idea. It was the idea.

The Jewish tradition was to sacrifice a lamb at Pesach (i.e. at Passover). I don't know the exact rules on which parts of it you could eat, and which parts were burned and/or given to the priests at the temple, so I don't know how much of it was "sacrifice" and how much of it was "prepared and eaten". One way or another, lambs were on the dinner plate of someone at that time of year. That lamb was the "Paschal Lamb", i.e. the lamb of Pesach.

When Jesus was executed at Pesach, his followers started talking about Jesus as the Passover sacrifice. Instead of sacrificing a lamb, Jesus was sacrificed. i.e. He took the place of the paschal lamb.

I never knew any of this before I married a Jew and started playing along with Jewish rituals and traditions. I knew that Jesus was the "paschal lamb", but I never new what "paschal" meant. I thought it had something to do with ministry.
Doh... Of course I'd heard of Passover lamb.

And the date of the first Easter being at Passover.

I just hadn't joined the dots.
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:50 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And if Budweiser was owned by someone in Belgium, would it still be terrible?
That would depend on which Budweiser you're talking about.
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Old 12th March 2018, 04:48 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It may now be foriegn owned, most of our companies seem to be, but it's still British, ie, based in Britain and making British style chocolate as it has done for over a hundred years. If a non American bought Hershey would that stop their distinctive soured milk based chocolate from being American?
I'm not sure about that, unless you count every publicly-traded company when the majority of shareholders happen to be foreigners (which is very likely these days). But Cadbury is a wholly owned subsidiary of Mondelez and it shares key personnel in the board room, so yes, they could stop making British style chocolate any moment.

Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And if Budweiser was owned by someone in Belgium, would it still be terrible?
Considering that that "someone in Belgium" thought of the idea of brewing Stella Artois, I wouldn't hold up my hopes of improvement for Budweiser.
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Old 12th March 2018, 04:51 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And the date of the first Easter being at Passover.
Not just the first Easter; the first couple of centuries, Christians followed the Jewish date for Passover as the date for Easter. The current formula for the Easter date was only really fixed in the 16th Century, around the same time as the Gregorian calendar, IIRC.
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:32 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
I'm not sure about that, unless you count every publicly-traded company when the majority of shareholders happen to be foreigners (which is very likely these days). But Cadbury is a wholly owned subsidiary of Mondelez and it shares key personnel in the board room, so yes, they could stop making British style chocolate any moment.
And if they did I would nolonger argue that they were making British chocolate, but I spoke about what our easter eggs are made of not what they might hypothetically be made of in the future.


Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Considering that that "someone in Belgium" thought of the idea of brewing Stella Artois, I wouldn't hold up my hopes of improvement for Budweiser.
One of the Budweisers has very little need for improvement.
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