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Old 11th March 2018, 04:26 PM   #81
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I've been feeling like I'm missing something, too.
One of the quotes referred to Seth’s “Sanders iaactually winning” theory, and his nonsensical follow up about metanarrative to explain why he was lying about it.
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Old 11th March 2018, 04:29 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
One of the quotes referred to Seth’s “Sanders iaactually winning” theory, and his nonsensical follow up about metanarrative to explain why he was lying about it.

Yeah, that sounds like he's an aspiring propagandist to me. That's bad and all, but still nothing like Jones in any way.
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Old 11th March 2018, 04:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The problem with all this is this: When someone makes many many inferences every day, some are going to turn out to be correct, some are going to turn out to be false.
You have anecdotal memory of him having been right a few times - but how do you discern this from random luck and confirmation bias?
How do you do it yourself? Do you keep a scorecard for each of your own news sources?
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Old 11th March 2018, 04:39 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
One of the quotes referred to Seth’s “Sanders iaactually winning” theory, and his nonsensical follow up about metanarrative to explain why he was lying about it.
And this is a Conspiracy Theory? How??
No, it isn't.
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Old 11th March 2018, 04:41 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
How do you do it yourself? Do you keep a scorecard for each of your own news sources?
We are not talking about news here - we are more accurately talking about predictions and guesses.

I am simply not following any sources closely that mainly deal in guesses and predictions.
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Old 11th March 2018, 05:33 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
And this is a Conspiracy Theory? How??
No, it isn't.
It just sounds to me like he was fessing up to interpreting the data in a specific way on purpose, to try to shift public perception, in order to affect the outcome.

This is not on par with UFOs, Satanists, and "globalist" eugenics/depopulation plots material whatsoever.
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Old 11th March 2018, 05:35 PM   #87
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Infowars is a shopping channel, not a newssite. You might as well use commercials as evidence.
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:11 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
We are not talking about news here - we are more accurately talking about predictions and guesses.

I am simply not following any sources closely that mainly deal in guesses and predictions.
Fair enough. In response then, given the inherent difficulties in proving one's lack of bias, I think the simplest indication of his correctness is how far detractors have to reach to find a miss. TBD's epic "takedown" is pointing out a single instance several months ago in which Abramson said someone had a thing when it was really someone else they were allegedly working with.

Contrast that with anything ever written on InfoWars.
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:33 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Fair enough. In response then, given the inherent difficulties in proving one's lack of bias, I think the simplest indication of his correctness is how far detractors have to reach to find a miss. TBD's epic "takedown" is pointing out a single instance several months ago in which Abramson said someone had a thing when it was really someone else they were allegedly working with.

Contrast that with anything ever written on InfoWars.
Several months ago? False. Very abramson of you tho.

Did anyone bother to read any of the links in the article in the op?
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:37 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yeah that one.

I get that you might disagree with me and the numerous links in the article in the op, but please don’t waste everyone’s time by feigning ignorance.
Bogus. The OP quotes an opinion piece. You quote precisely two words from Abramson in the OP. All hail Kevin Bacon.

What you're being asked is utterly fundamental. Quote the words of Abramson that support your claim that he's a CTist. Not an opinion piece that characterizes the words of Abramson. Not a naked link to Abramson. Not any other of the vapid, evasive responses you commonly foist. Just the words of Abramson that make your case that he's a CTist. Here's a template for you:

Originally Posted by template
Donald Trump is a CTist. He promotes the concept that Obama wasn't born in the US. For instance:

Originally Posted by Trump, Aug 2012
An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud. link
Originally Posted by Trump, Dec 2013
How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s “birth certificate” died in plane crash today. All others lived. link
What with hope springing eternal, go ahead and surprise me.
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:52 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Bogus. The OP quotes an opinion piece. You quote precisely two words from Abramson in the OP. All hail Kevin Bacon.

What you're being asked is utterly fundamental. Quote the words of Abramson that support your claim that he's a CTist. Not an opinion piece that characterizes the words of Abramson. Not a naked link to Abramson. Not any other of the vapid, evasive responses you commonly foist. Just the words of Abramson that make your case that he's a CTist. Here's a template for you:
[indent]

What with hope springing eternal, go ahead and surprise me.
Demand: I demand that you quote Seth’s words! Harrumph!
Reasonable response: Tbd links to a looney tunes article written by Seth where he justifies lying by claiming it was metanarrative or some unhinged nonsense. Every single word is crazier than the next and makes infowars look like the encyclopedia brittanica.
New silly demand: I demand that you not give me a “naked link” to Seth’s crazy *********** unhinged nonsense!

Lol, ‘k.
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Old 11th March 2018, 06:54 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Demand: I demand that you quote Seth’s words! Harrumph!
Reasonable response: Tbd links to a looney tunes article written by Seth where he justifies lying by claiming it was metanarrative or some unhinged nonsense. Every single word is crazier than the next and makes infowars look like the encyclopedia brittanica.
New silly demand: I demand that you not give me a “naked link” to Seth’s crazy *********** unhinged nonsense!

Lol, ‘k.
On what planet is lying to push a alternative narrative a "conspiracy theory"?
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Old 11th March 2018, 07:00 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Every single word is crazier than the next and makes infowars look like the encyclopedia brittanica.
You are obviously not very familiar with Infowars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzNeg9D-EZ4
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Old 11th March 2018, 07:03 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
You are obviously not very familiar with Infowars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzNeg9D-EZ4
Hell, that's actually one of his more plausible conspiracy theories. lol
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Old 11th March 2018, 07:05 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
On what planet is lying to push a alternative narrative a "conspiracy theory"?
Like pushing an alternative narrative that 9/11 was an Inside hobby job?

When it was a lie and was based on claims that “corporate media” was not telling the truth.

Did you read his barely comprehensible defense of lying that I posted a naked link to, much to the chagrin of various posters.

More info. How the left lost its mind. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...swamps/530736/
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Last edited by The Big Dog; 11th March 2018 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 11th March 2018, 07:30 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Lol,
‘k.
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:33 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
This is not off-topic, because we are discussing whether a source, in this case Seth Abramson, is reliable.

Of course, in the case of Seth Abramson, for aspects of the content that he uses a source, the original source needs to be assessed.

As far as the strength of an argument goes, at what point do you differentiate the facts being presented, from the argument being presented?
The two issues are orthogonal. On the one hand, we may ask, "Are the (unsupported) premises true?" We don't need to know the argument to assess that. On the other hand we may ask, "Given that the premises are true, must it be the case that the conclusion is true/probable?" For this we needn't know whether the premises are true, but merely what would be the case were they true.

Quote:
Why should politics be any different than quantum mechanics in that regard? Shouldn't governance be evidence-based?
Were we in the habit of writing our arguments in excruciating detail, without skipping steps, premises or conclusions, there would be no different. In that case, the subject matter would not be an issue. We could all evaluate every argument, regardless of the subject matter, in terms of validity or strength.

But that's not how it goes. We encounter arguments like "Trump won't drop the tariffs because he loves the support of his base." Clearly, that argument is utterly invalid as stated, but that's because it takes an essential premise for granted: Trump's base won't support him if he drops the tariffs[1].

I feel pretty confident filling in the details in many political arguments. I have no confidence at all that I can fill in the details in quantum theory. Even as a math researcher, back in the day, filling in details in arguments that occur in fields similar to but different than my own was quite difficult, but as I gained knowledge, it became much easier.

This is the difference. I think most people have familiarity with human behavior and some politics so that they are in an okay position to judge whether a given conclusion follows from the argument. I think very few of us could do the same with a difficult argument in physics stated in the usual, sloppy manner that we communicate with one another. (The alternative to the usual, sloppy manner is extreme tedium, I should point out.)

I hope that makes things clearer.

[1] If we're pedantic, we would add another premise such as, "Trump will not do that which loses him what he loves," but let's not get carried away.
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:49 AM   #98
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I'll summarize this thread so far:

TBD claims Abramson is a CTist.
When presser to show evidence, TBD fails.
Instead, he points to a quote where Abramson excuses playing loose with the facts.
Which has nothing to do with CTs.
Contrary to the facts, TBD insists he quoted Abramson uttering a CT.
TBD thus wrote untrue claims.
TBD makes excuses for playing loose with the facts.

I conclude that TBD, in his own mind, must be a CTist.
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:31 AM   #99
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Page 3 and we still don't know what the purported CT is.

So TBD, when you accuse someone of being a CTist, but can't be bothered to state in plain English what the CT is (read the link, read the link, Polly want a cracker, squawk) -- that's character assassination.

While we've learned precious little about Abramson here, volumes have been spoken about his accuser.
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:03 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Seth Abramson? That's that twitter guy who can't afford a blog?
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:14 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am simply addressing the recent spate of people citing to him in the politics section as if he were some sort of an expert.
And by spate of people, you mean one person.

Quote:
I would refer to him as Fake News
Of course you will. "Fake news" now means "disagrees with me".
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:17 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well he CERTAINLY knew more about Sanders being ahead of Clinton.
Wait, you mean he is someone who makes mistakes? Well, I'm never going to ever believe anything he says now.
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:20 AM   #103
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I'll summarize this thread so far:

TBD provides copious links and explanations why so many on the left consider Abramson to be an incompetent conspiracy monger.

Gainsaying and hand waving and whining.

TBD links to actual unhinged rant.

Gainsaying and hand waving and whining that TBD provided a naked link, which I guess is a thing?

TBD explains Abramson's Sanders is winning theory was not only a lie it was based on claims that “corporate media” was not telling the truth.

People ignore that, claim victory.

Abramson still an incompetent conspiracy monger.
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:40 AM   #104
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I have been accused of character assasination of someone who wrote that his unhinged theories about sanders were “experimental journalism” aimed at creating a “metanarrative” that would be “every bit as powerful and present and perceivable as any other.”

Oh man.

Revel in it folks, it is beautiful.
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:45 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I have been accused of character assasination of someone who wrote that his unhinged theories about sanders were “experimental journalism” aimed at creating a “metanarrative” that would be “every bit as powerful and present and perceivable as any other.”

Oh man.

Revel in it folks, it is beautiful.
Still not comparable to the rabid lunacy that is an average Alex Jones show or the self-contradicting storytelling that only Hannity isn't embarrassed about.
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:47 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I have been accused of character assasination of someone who wrote that his unhinged theories about sanders were “experimental journalism” aimed at creating a “metanarrative” that would be “every bit as powerful and present and perceivable as any other.”

Oh man.

Revel in it folks, it is beautiful.
Actually, you're accused of starting a thread with an idiotic premise. From what you've given to support your case, Abramson isn't even the left's Sean Hannity, much less Alex Jones, and Hannity is the right's favorite talking head.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:13 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Actually, you're accused of starting a thread with an idiotic premise. From what you've given to support your case, Abramson isn't even the left's Sean Hannity, much less Alex Jones, and Hannity is the right's favorite talking head.
Yeah, I'm getting more of a "Tucker Carlson of the left" thing going on with the guy as a worst case scenario.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:29 AM   #108
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How can one read this tweet:

Area Academic Writes Barely Comprehensible Defense of Lying

which links to this incomprehensible word salad:

While this might tend to destabilize corporate master narratives, and while it might also tend to unsettle individuals’ guiding metanarratives, the aim of metamodern literature is not to expose how things can be unsettled or fractured but rather the opposite: how fiction and truth, creativity and analysis, optimism and cynicism, sincerity and irony, deconstruction and reconstruction — Art and Life — can be said to be and thereby can be seen as eternally juxtaposed and ineluctable. In other words, open up the possible and you find the impossible inside; raise up the impossible to the level of the possible and eventually it becomes as possible as everything else and sometimes even more so.

and think that the answer to the question of ""Is this the hill you want to die on?" is YES.

I get that most people have not even attempted to read Seth's magnum dopus "On Bernie Sanders and Experimental Journalism" but why come here and pretend that he is anything other than spittle soaked delusional conspiracy monger is beyond me.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:33 AM   #109
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What conspiracy is he promoting?
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:38 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
What conspiracy is he promoting?
You're confusing TBD's posts to be something you can discuss. His purpose isn't to argue or debate or demonstrate, but to "win" against the other "side". Nothing else matters.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:40 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Word salad like that usually just means they're a crappy writer, and it's usually a result of being a sloppy thinker.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:40 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
What conspiracy is he promoting?
TONS of them!

We have covered in detail the "Media isn't reporting that sanders is going to win."

Plus there are lots more in the various articles i have linked.

Here is another one near and dear to my heart:

FACT: There *was* an FBI conspiracy to help elect one of the two candidates in the 2016 presidential election.

It was a pro-Trump conspiracy in the New York field office of the FBI.


But it is not just the conspiracy angle, it is also the fact that he plays fast and loose with the facts and has no relevant expertise at all in the slightest on the topics he claims to write about.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:48 AM   #113
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Is wordsalad equal to conspiracy theories now?
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:57 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
LOL, as I said, he doesn't hold a candle to Hannity, much less the amazingly imaginative Alex Jones.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:59 AM   #115
Belz...
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Bill, you missed the important bit. He was _wrong_ about something at some point. Don't you get it? How can you not see it?
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:16 AM   #116
Giordano
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You're confusing TBD's posts to be something you can discuss. His purpose isn't to argue or debate or demonstrate, but to "win" against the other "side". Nothing else matters.
In my own view his posts seek not so much to "win" but to irritate liberals, and part of that strategy can include declaring a win and holding a victory celebration.

Last edited by Giordano; 12th March 2018 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:19 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Make sure you read his theory on experimental writing and metanarrative, otherwise known as lying.

By the way, what posts exactly made you think he has “interesting insights”? Really curious.
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I changed it to reflect my opinion of his posts
Say, just waiting for a response to this: "what posts exactly made you think he has “interesting insights”.

So exciting
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:23 AM   #118
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Here's Abramson's latest "scoop" (currently pinned to the top of his twitter feed):

Quote:
BREAKING: It turns out that Donald Trump was conspiring with an *active* FBI informant while he was secretly leveraging his presidential run in 2015 and 2016 to get a business deal with Russian nationals.
Conspiring you say? Yeah, I can't imaging how anybody manages to think that he's a conspiracy theorist.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:25 AM   #119
Belz...
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Here's Abramson's latest "scoop" (currently pinned to the top of his twitter feed):



Conspiring you say? Yeah, I can't imaging how anybody manages to think that he's a conspiracy theorist.
Well, it seems you've made the same mistake as conspiracy theorists do: think that "conspiracy theorist" means every person who thinks any conspiracy exists.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:31 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Here's Abramson's latest "scoop" (currently pinned to the top of his twitter feed):

Conspiring you say? Yeah, I can't imaging how anybody manages to think that he's a conspiracy theorist.
Did you read the remarkable Leopold article that says thing like:

Quote:
He obtained five of the personal satellite telephone numbers for Osama bin Laden before 9/11 and he helped flip the personal secretary to Mullah Omar, then the head of the Taliban and an ally of bin Laden, into a source who provided the location of al-Qaeda training camps and weapons caches.
Quote:
Sater provided US intelligence with details about possible assassination threats against former president George W. Bush and secretary of state Colin Powell. Sater reported that jihadists were hiding in a hut outside Bagram Air Base and planned to shoot down Powell’s plane during a January 2002 visit.
and Seth writes that "Do I need to point out how *hard* that's going to come back to bite him?"

man Seth is a *********** idiot.
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