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Old 12th March 2018, 09:17 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Where proven true, dig them out and deport them to an island somewhere. A small island with little land and far from any others. Let the kids remain in GB. Same re: the US. Put them all on the same small island!!!
Chance would be a fine thing. But more seriously, this fermentation of culture I mentioned actually means that each generation is worse than the one preceding. You'd imagine that the seniors would be more conservative, more intolerant and less willing to integrate that the youngsters, but the reverse tends to be true. Some of these communities are like lawless countries with a country, and nothing is being done to address this.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:18 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Widespread institutional failings of the police and social services have been exhaustively detailed, admitted and apologised for on numerous occasions. Nobody who's even spent five minutes watching the news could deny they exist.
Or maybe they thought it was better to put their hands up and not argue the detail for PR reasons.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:19 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Or maybe they thought it was better to put their hands up and not argue the detail for PR reasons.
That'll be it, yeah.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:23 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That'll be it, yeah.
Why not? It "worked" after Macpherson.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:31 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Chance would be a fine thing. But more seriously, this fermentation of culture I mentioned actually means that each generation is worse than the one preceding. You'd imagine that the seniors would be more conservative, more intolerant and less willing to integrate that the youngsters, but the reverse tends to be true. Some of these communities are like lawless countries with a country, and nothing is being done to address this.
So basically the same social degeneration seen in some depived white working class communities, then.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:33 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
"There are estimates of around 300,000 children under the age of 18 being trafficked in the US every year."
If we only had the facts instead of estimates. We might even learn that it's 3 million children.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:34 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So basically the same social degeneration seen in some depived white working class communities, then.
Is that the culmination of your argument or do you plan on stooping even lower in your attempts to apologise for the rape gangs and wave away their crimes?
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:42 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
You should be able to cite lots of verifiable examples, then.
I can. Google Sweden rape and Germany rape and you will be able to do so as well.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:47 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
I can. Google Sweden rape and Germany rape and you will be able to do so as well.
a) That's not how this works in a discussion and b) you're comparing two very different sets of cases.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:53 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Is that the culmination of your argument or do you plan on stooping even lower in your attempts to apologise for the rape gangs and wave away their crimes?
Since I have acknowledged their criminality and exploitation from the start, that would be you talking bollocks, as usual.

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Old 12th March 2018, 09:55 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
I can.
Clearly you can't, since you fail to do so.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:55 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Since I have acknowledged their criminality and exploitation from the start, that would be you talking bollocks again.
Yes, I recall your condemnation of their 'transactional' antics.
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:02 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Yes, I recall your condemnation of their 'transactional' antics.
What I said was: "Crimes have clearly occurred. It is a huge leap, though, to characterise all the purported estimated victims as having been any or all of those things. A lot of what went on seems to have been transactional, even if exploitative and/or illegal."

"Those things" being your claim of "thousands of children... raped, tortured and murdered."

As usual, you would rather cherry-pick a cheap shot than actually engage in an intellectually honest conversation.
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:05 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
True in some instances, not in these cases. The relevant police forces have been aware of it for decades. In some cases they facilitated the abuse; at best they permitted it. A 13 year old girl raped in a car park by a gang of men; the police turn up, let the men go free and arrest the girl for 'drunk and disorderly'. A man reported his 13 year old daughter missing for the nth time, he tells the police the address where she is being held captive by a gang of Pakistani men. The police refuse to act so he goes to the house to try and get her back. The police appear immediately and arrest him. A couple of instances that illustrate the overarching attitude of the police, that the girls are trash and the perpetrators practically untouchable.
To be fair, this attitude prevails only when the girl is an indigenous Briton and the perpetrators are not.
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:13 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Like the catholic church - as well as a number of protestant same.
You forgot Hassidic Jews, or is it just Christians that you hate?
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:16 AM   #96
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Why does every discussion on this forum turn into a feud to find out who's the most moral among the posters participating?
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:18 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If we only had the facts instead of estimates. We might even learn that it's 3 million children.
How do you propose to get a precise number on a crime like human trafficking which by its very nature goes vastly underreported?
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:19 AM   #98
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Honesty, not morality. Every thread of this nature attracts one or more posters intent on playing down the situation and diverting attention onto other matters. If such posters were honest in their motives then time need not be spent in exposing them, and discussion of the core topic could continue without interruption.
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:23 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why does every discussion on this forum turn into a feud to find out who's the most moral among the posters participating?
It seems like some people here have a history of fighting with one another about the topic of this thread?
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:25 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Every thread of this nature attracts one or more posters intent on playing down up the situation and diverting attention onto excluding other matters.
FTFY.
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:31 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It seems like some people here have a history of fighting with one another about the topic of this thread?
The usual suspects will always try to force the thread off-topic whilst accusing those who discuss the topic itself of 'playing up' the situation. Because merely posting on the subject of thousands of children being raped, beaten, kidnapped, tortured and murdered is 'playing up' the situation. Nothing to see here, just a big misunderstanding of 'transactional' issues in certain communities, let's not make a fuss.
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:34 AM   #102
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For the record, I find the initial reaction of skepticism of this topic by some forum members understandable. It does sound like the satanic panic of old.


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Old 12th March 2018, 10:59 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
There is a small number of individual investigations ongoing, that we know about. What is missing is any attempt at a concerted effort to tackle these crimes across the UK. AFAIK this 'revelation' (LOL) is simply a report and not a criminal investigation.

How odd that when a bunch of millionaire celebrities have their phones 'hacked', the police immediately assign hundreds of detectives to the case, which runs over many years and costs countless millions, but when thousands of children are raped, tortured and murdered in towns and cities across the UK all the police can do (when they're not actively aiding the rapists) is sit on their hands for thirty years then make excuses for why they have done next to nothing.
Unfortunately it has ever been the case in the UK that social class will dictate in general terms how someone is treated by the authorities. I am sure if many of the girls had been from the middle classes and above more action would be happening. As the report in Rotherham showed many of the victims were discounted simply because they came from the wrong side of the tracks

A weird type of racism and class prejudice lies at the heart of this matter and both need to be tackled if we want to stop it.

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:06 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Because merely posting on the subject of thousands of children being raped, beaten, kidnapped, tortured and murdered is 'playing up' the situation.
You forgot to add sacrificed in the name of Satan.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:07 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It was certainly a characteristic of some earlier cases that initial activity was in exchange for alcohol and drugs, or at least that sexual activity occurred after the perpetrators were generous in various ways. Many of the alleged victims considered that they have a "boyfriend" in a single individual, at least at first. Obviously that doesn't negate the fact that many of them were underage, regardless of any other considerations.
That's called grooming, which in itself is an offence. Read the Rotherham report, you are perhaps unkowingly repeating the same prejudice the police often showed when they discounted the crimes they knew were happening. The children were groomed and then terrorised to comply. These were never 'transactions", the only people involved in transactions were the men (and some women) who sold the children or paid for access to the children.

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:08 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Your last paragraph makes no sense since we only know of this because the powers that be are now investigating allegations.

One or two investigations is proof to you of whether or not there are any number of cover-ups? That makes no sense.


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Old 12th March 2018, 11:08 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The usual suspects will always try to force the thread off-topic whilst accusing those who discuss the topic itself of 'playing up' the situation. Because merely posting on the subject of thousands of children being raped, beaten, kidnapped, tortured and murdered is 'playing up' the situation. Nothing to see here, just a big misunderstanding of 'transactional' issues in certain communities, let's not make a fuss.
Calm down, dear.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:10 AM   #108
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The amount of knee-jerk damage control going on in this thread is quite telling of how this became a problem in the UK in the first place. It appears that the need to damage control is not only ingrained into the authorities, but into the citizens as well.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:11 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
For the record, I find the initial reaction of skepticism of this topic by some forum members understandable. It does sound like the satanic panic of old.
Only very superficially.

Satanic panic (SP): alleged victims were kindergarteners and young schoolchildrens
UK grooming gangs (UK): victims were young teenagers

SP: coerced confessions, many of which were soon retracted
UK: Kids (and their parents) actively sought help from police and authorities (it took a long time coming)

SP: parents among the accused
UK: parents tried to alert police

SP: There has never been a documented case of satanic child abuse (or very few?)
UK: Young girls targeted by grownups for abusive relationships and child prostitution is regrettably common.

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:13 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
The amount of knee-jerk damage control going on in this thread is quite telling of how this became a problem in the UK in the first place. It appears that the need to damage control is not only ingrained into the authorities, but into the citizens as well.
You can substitute "US" for "UK" in that sentence and it works just as well. It's apparently just as bad a problem there.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:15 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
You can substitute "US" for "UK" in that sentence and it works just as well. It's apparently just as bad a problem there.

#whataboutism
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:16 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's called grooming, which in itself is an offence.
No, it's what we know call and criminalise it as now. We didn't forty, thirty, or even twenty years ago. These things happened precisely because the phenomenon was not recognised for what it was and is.

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:17 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
#whataboutism
Thank you for proving my point.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:17 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
The context being:
- vulnerable children are vulnerable
- police and social services are guilty of (at best) dereliction of duty, and (at worst), of facilitating and being accessories to abuse.
- UK institutions care about PR, appearences and rocking the boat more than they do about saving kids.
Can you please stop using "vulnerable children", yes some of the children would be classed as vulnerable but the majority wouldn't, being poor or living on a bad estate does not make a child vulnerable. Or means they should be treated differently to the cabinet minister's child. It is a common thread throughout these reports that time and time again the authorities wrote off mant of these children as they were considered to put it bluntly scum so it was probably their fault that they were being raped by 5 men a day.

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:21 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
#whataboutism
Now, wait a second. If person A's point is that the UK is particularily bad at X, is person B pointing out that the US is just as bad at X "whataboutism" or a good counter-argument?
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:23 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
To be fair, this attitude prevails only when the girl is an indigenous Briton and the perpetrators are not.
No it prevails when the children are generally from the lower classes, in poverty or live in the wrong place.

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Old 12th March 2018, 11:26 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Thank you for proving my point.

From readings ISF and JREF over the years I have to imagine that people from the UK bring up the US in every situation in their day to day lives.

"It sure is cloudy today..." "Ah, but the Americans have clouds too!"
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:27 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
From readings ISF and JREF over the years I have to imagine that people from the UK bring up the US in every situation in their day to day lives.

"It sure is cloudy today..." "Ah, but the Americans have clouds too!"
For that analogy to work, you'd have to be British.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:29 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Honesty, not morality. Every thread of this nature attracts one or more posters intent on playing down the situation and diverting attention onto other matters. If such posters were honest in their motives then time need not be spent in exposing them, and discussion of the core topic could continue without interruption.


No need for them to be honest when it is so damn obvious. Literally 1 out of every 5 posts in this thread is by the exact same poster performing some of the weakest (even if only because it is so blatant) damage control possible.
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Old 12th March 2018, 11:30 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
From readings ISF and JREF over the years I have to imagine that people from the UK bring up the US in every situation in their day to day lives.

"It sure is cloudy today..." "Ah, but the Americans have clouds too!"

Nope, we are perfectly happy to whinge continually about our own crappy weather.
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