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2nd July 2023, 08:06 PM | #1 |
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Where do you stand on reparations?
I am thinking that the general stance on reparations is kind of like what the general stance on student loan relief. Trash. Personally I am for a modest reparations proposal similar to what they did for the Jews after the holocaust. I guess the cost for the reparations they want is 14 trillion. I would not be for that.
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2nd July 2023, 08:26 PM | #2 |
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Those who were denied admission to university due their race are definately owed reparations. The universites have the billions in endowments to pay for it.
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2nd July 2023, 08:41 PM | #3 |
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It is just infeasible to write legislation and set up a bureaucracy to means test who would get how much.
The result would be widespread abuse and discontent with the program, leaving people with the feeling that no true reparations have happened, no matter the trillions spent. |
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2nd July 2023, 08:44 PM | #4 |
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Instead, the US should have programs to bring people out of poverty and houselessness, regardless of background - that's easier to test for and won't run afoul of discrimination laws whilst overwhelmingly benefiting black communities.
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2nd July 2023, 09:07 PM | #5 |
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2nd July 2023, 09:14 PM | #6 |
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MB, you might be interested in this thread on San Francisco and their plans/debates for reparations.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=364031 |
2nd July 2023, 10:01 PM | #7 |
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This is, of course, nonsense. Schools in poor districts need WAY BETTER teachers and resources than in wealthy ones, since they would benefit so much more from all -day care and tutoring than rich kids who have Chauffeurs to Shuttle them between afternoon Mandarin leasons and Polo. It will take tremendous extra effort to make up for the difference between a household with lots of books and almost no books |
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3rd July 2023, 05:08 AM | #8 |
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That is not how it works. Public schools in poor districts are often basket cases often for reasons that have nothing to do with the teachers. The teachers are fine in most cases. what would probably help more would be an army of after school tutors to help with homework and to work on more advanced subjects for the ones that want to learn. A public school education is just not enough.
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3rd July 2023, 07:05 AM | #9 |
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3rd July 2023, 07:19 AM | #10 |
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Here's the thing.
Slavery, Jim Crow, Segregation and other forms of institutionalized racism did damage to the black community that has reverberated to this day. This is one of those "facts" either accept it or not be worth talking to. However let me check real quick... yeah all the people who owned slaves are dead. And the people who wrote the Jim Crow laws. We've still got some segregationists kicking about, sadly. Anyway my point is "You owe money to this guy because 200 years ago your ancestor enslaved his answer" is a terrible, intentionally baity way of putting it, but liberals gotta be seen wearing their hairshirts and loudly announcing that "no wait I'm one of the good ones" so that's how it's gonna be. When a hurricane hits and people's homes get destroyed... we (we meaning non-sociopaths) just help them. We don't find the dependents of people who's homes weren't destroyed in the Galveston Storm of 1903 and specifically frame it as taking money from them to give to the storm victims and yes that IS how reparations are being framed. Black Americans deserve to be helped because the damage from decades/centuries of subjugation are still there and they can be quantified. Framing it as "We're taking money from white people and giving it to black people" is both wrong and WILL create resentment. |
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3rd July 2023, 08:47 AM | #11 |
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I believe this is a community issue and deserves a community response. I propose:
-tax free zones in large black population areas to build businesses, factories, etc that provide good Middle class jobs with good salaries and benefits. -free college tuition for all black people. -free healthcare for all black people. -free childcare to all black people. -free job training for all black people. -free housing vouchers for all black people so they can all afford avg rent where they live. Program shall last 30 years. |
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3rd July 2023, 09:07 AM | #12 |
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3rd July 2023, 11:54 AM | #13 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:30 PM | #14 |
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Maybe so, but poor urban schools still suck mightily. It doesn't matter how many checks you write if they are funding bad programs.
Education opens real doors. Band aids are temporary. Give a man a fish, etc. And the education angle is the long game, so it has to be implemented ASAP, to give future generations a fighting chance. |
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3rd July 2023, 12:34 PM | #15 |
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I can see the justification for directing additional govt. benefits to Black people to make up for the losses due to discrimination over the last century or so. But I don't think that the descendants of enslaved people are entitled to large sums of money on the basis of having ancestors who were enslaved because unless a person is descended from an aristocratic family there is little wealth transferred over 5 or 6 generations.
IMHO, someone needs to come up with a realistic amount for reparations before it can become a plausible idea. The amounts that I've seen have equated to several times the median net wealth of a white family, which (at least to me) seems like a totally unrealistic amount to attribute to racism. |
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3rd July 2023, 12:38 PM | #16 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:38 PM | #17 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:41 PM | #18 |
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Just hurry up and get to "Black people are just dumb" and don't go through every step if that's gonna be your angle.
So what black people just don't want to learn as much as white people? A blustered "But that's not what I'm saying" better come with an actual, in English, reasonable explanation of what you are saying. |
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3rd July 2023, 12:41 PM | #19 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:45 PM | #20 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:45 PM | #21 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:46 PM | #22 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:47 PM | #23 |
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Their culture, society, families were not ripped apart by generations of slavery. They did not face generations of comprehensive systemic discrimination & persecution AFTER centuries of slavery.
AND after discrimination finally ended, blacks were not given any real help to repair the damage. You're comparing apples & potatoes. |
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3rd July 2023, 12:48 PM | #24 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:48 PM | #25 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:49 PM | #26 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:50 PM | #27 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:50 PM | #28 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:50 PM | #29 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:51 PM | #30 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:51 PM | #31 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:52 PM | #32 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:52 PM | #33 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:52 PM | #34 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:52 PM | #35 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:53 PM | #36 |
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Agreed, and that's a factor the solution. Do they not care because they can see how dismal their prospects are, or has it becomes a generational distrust of the mainstream culture, or what?
My wife works in what is politely called a challenged school district, and more bluntly in da hood. One thing she has noticed is that by 4th or 5th grade, it's game over. The kids are so far behind that it is impractical to ever catch them up. So they stop putting up a pretense of ever benefitting from the "system" and focus their energies and attentions outside that system (speaking very broadly here obviously). Many of their parents are either borderline illiterate or quite clearly bat **** crazy. Both parents in jail, going home to no electricity, these kids everyday lives are a freaking horror story to my ears. Not so much abuse, as relentless uncaring neglect. I think that a truly strong school system might give some of them hope to break the cycle and succeed. |
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3rd July 2023, 12:54 PM | #37 |
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3rd July 2023, 12:56 PM | #38 |
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Jebus. Why would that lead a child to not study; to not pay attention in school; to not get married; to engage in crime? Really? The Jews of Europe were mightily discriminated against for a millennia. One generation past liberation and they're overrepresented in science and finance. This "generational trauma" trope is just pseudoscience.
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3rd July 2023, 12:57 PM | #39 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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3rd July 2023, 12:58 PM | #40 |
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