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15th September 2021, 11:51 AM | #1841 |
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15th September 2021, 11:52 AM | #1842 |
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15th September 2021, 11:56 AM | #1843 |
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LOL! He called the Lt. Gov. of Georgia and tried to get him to just "find" the exact number of votes to give him the state! He pressured the DOJ to declare they found "problems" with the election voting and Barr finally resigned over Trump's meddling. He got away with that and two impeachments for illegal things that he clearly did and GOP knew he did but didn't care! Don't give me this crap that "he didn't".
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Here's some 'whataboutisms' for you (I'm pre-empting that completely expected rebuttal, so don't bother): Trump's XO's declared illegal:
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15th September 2021, 11:58 AM | #1844 |
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15th September 2021, 12:10 PM | #1845 |
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15th September 2021, 01:00 PM | #1846 |
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Were they? Who authorized them? Miller says he didn't and wouldn't.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...-should-resign |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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15th September 2021, 01:06 PM | #1847 |
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We're getting some real stars quoted here. Christopher Miller was Defense Secretary for what - 3 months? In that time, he ordered our forces out of Afghanistan, failed to meet with Biden's team, thereby risking national security during transition, delayed activating the National Guard for hours while white supremacists and MAGA hordes attacked the US Capitol. Such an important voice about the Constitutionality of whatever Milley did. **** that guy.
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15th September 2021, 01:10 PM | #1848 |
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The constitution makes the President the commander in chief, and gives Congress the power to pass laws governing the structure of the armed forces. Congress has passed laws which dictate the role of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Those laws prohibit the Chairman from exercising command authority. The Chairman's only role is as advisor to the president, he is NOT part of the chain of command. If Milley gave orders to anyone, that is illegal, and the constitution backs that up.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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15th September 2021, 01:11 PM | #1849 |
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15th September 2021, 01:24 PM | #1850 |
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1. It's the Constitution, not constitution.
2. Milley was not exercising command authority. He was reminding the others what the proper and legal procedure was when it came to the POTUS ordering military strikes and that was for him to be informed as Chairman. Unless China attacked the US or was planning to, there would be no warranted reason for such an order to be issued and would clearly be illegal. Trump already had a history of not following procedure and of being erratic and abusing his powers as POTUS. |
15th September 2021, 01:37 PM | #1851 |
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You know what?
If some general decides that actually, it's a bad idea for a dangerously unstable person in a position of power to instigate WWIII in a fit of pique after he's already lost the election and should be preparing an orderly handover of power, then that's fine by me. Obviously it would be better to have systems in place to prevent such an occurrence, maybe a 25th Amendment, perhaps? But allowing the destruction of civilisation just to make the point that the system lacks sufficient safeguards seems a little extreme to me. |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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15th September 2021, 01:53 PM | #1852 |
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15th September 2021, 02:28 PM | #1853 |
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<regrets typing this beforehand>
I'm pretty sure "The Founding Fathers" would not have intended any outgoing president to be able take a course of action that would not only destroy the country as a polity, but also every other country on the globe - simply because the outgoing president was dangerously unstable. Nuclear war on a whim is a Bad Thing. |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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15th September 2021, 03:16 PM | #1854 |
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When I spoke out against the bullies, they called me woke. When I lashed them with a length of chain, they called me sir. |
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15th September 2021, 03:54 PM | #1855 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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15th September 2021, 03:56 PM | #1856 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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15th September 2021, 04:20 PM | #1857 |
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Trump has already gone full Captain Queeg on us.
"Ahh, but the ballots! That's - that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes, but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with - geometric logic - that the numbers don't match! And I'd have PRODUCED those numbers if they hadn't pulled the rigged machines! I, I, I know now they were only trying to keep me from winning - [breaks off in horror, becomes hesitant] Umm... naturally, I can only cover these things roughly, from - what Sydney and Mr My Pillow have told me... but if I've left anything out... why, you just ask me - specific questions and I'll be - perfectly happy to lie about them... one by one. Can I have two scoops of ice cream now?" |
15th September 2021, 04:56 PM | #1858 |
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Well here I thought you were to explicit to imply anything. Either way, at least we don’t need to pretend it was a coup anymore. It doesn’t even appear anything illegal happened. And by most reports, even the Fox News link helpfully provided by Ziggurat demonstrating that civilian leadership was informed and present for the call, it doesn’t even appear to have been improper.
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15th September 2021, 04:58 PM | #1859 |
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15th September 2021, 05:06 PM | #1860 |
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So he went around Trump and Miller. Who cares? He deescalated a situation with a nuclear power. All that matters is no nukes were launched, process be damned. Milley had everyone reason to believe the pretend SECDEF was engaged in seditious conspiracy. We're talking about nukes. As long as we kept any from being used, it's okay. The ends justify the means.
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15th September 2021, 05:28 PM | #1861 |
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But he didn't go around Miller at all. Miller is lying. Miller was informed as well as DefSec Esper. There were representatives from the State Dept etc.
Nor was Milley telling Gen. Li that he would let him know ahead of time if a military strike was going to happen. The right is taking what he said out of context...gee...shocking, I know. What they are leaving out is the next sentence: "It's going to be OK. We're not going to have a fight." Gen.Li says "OK. I take you at your word." Milley tells Li that if there were going to be a war, there would be a build up just like every war in history. Li would know that, too. But, man, the GOP usuals are out in force calling for Milley's resignation and calling it treason. It's not. But why let that get in the way of a good ranting point? |
15th September 2021, 07:12 PM | #1862 |
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16th September 2021, 12:44 AM | #1863 |
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16th September 2021, 12:47 AM | #1864 |
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16th September 2021, 01:03 AM | #1865 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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16th September 2021, 01:43 AM | #1866 |
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16th September 2021, 05:08 AM | #1867 |
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The reason to take that chance is you agreed to take that chance by joining an organization that transfers this decision making authority to civilian control. By signing up, you agree to follow all legal, bad orders.
eta: This is like a North Korean general having issue with The unilateral power given to Kim. it's the system you signed up for |
16th September 2021, 06:06 AM | #1868 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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16th September 2021, 06:15 AM | #1869 |
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16th September 2021, 07:46 AM | #1870 |
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Not with hope but with self-abnegation
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When I spoke out against the bullies, they called me woke. When I lashed them with a length of chain, they called me sir. |
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16th September 2021, 03:03 PM | #1871 |
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I don't care about any of that. If the end result is that nukes aren't employed it's okay. If you have to circumvent civilian control to avoid a nuclear exchange, that's fine. If he had to lie to the president that's okay. If he had to be insubordinate to Trump, that's fine. It only matters that nukes aren't exchanged.
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16th September 2021, 03:04 PM | #1872 |
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16th September 2021, 03:53 PM | #1873 |
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Nope.
Superior orders
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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16th September 2021, 04:58 PM | #1874 |
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16th September 2021, 05:16 PM | #1875 |
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16th September 2021, 05:34 PM | #1876 |
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16th September 2021, 05:37 PM | #1877 |
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16th September 2021, 05:38 PM | #1878 |
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16th September 2021, 05:39 PM | #1879 |
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16th September 2021, 05:51 PM | #1880 |
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