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25th August 2022, 12:15 PM | #2041 |
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There's a B-plot in one of the Tom Clancy novels where Japan, as just one part of a multi-phase attack against the US (just go with it) hires a technician at an unnamed but major stock trading house to insert a computer virus into their automated trading system which causes the company to lose a massive amount of money, leading to the other major trading houses panicking, which leads to a massive market crash.
Later the head of the NYSE explains that what happened is none of their plans, their rules, their failsafes accounted for someone losing a massive amount of money on purpose. It was just so far outside the scope of anything they had considered. All their reaction plans were predicated on someone trying to make money. It's sorta the same thing here. All of our political "balance" for a lack of a better assumed a certain kind of honest agent, someone trying to gain political power for a goal. This person could be horribly corrupt, stupid, evil, lawbreaking but they would have a purpose beyond chaos for the sake of chaos. It's doesn't matter how many lifeboats you have if half the passengers are willing to sink the boat and go down with it just to take the other half with them. |
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25th August 2022, 12:22 PM | #2042 |
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25th August 2022, 12:41 PM | #2043 |
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25th August 2022, 01:02 PM | #2044 |
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25th August 2022, 01:49 PM | #2045 |
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I don't know if Trump meets the technical requirments for being mentally ill,..and we have had an endless debate on that , but I do know
that he has deep emotional problems. which make him totally unfit for the office of POTUS. |
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25th August 2022, 01:51 PM | #2046 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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25th August 2022, 01:54 PM | #2047 |
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THIS,
I despise Trump, and think this whole debate about how mentally ill he is is sort of beside the point.He has shown he is totally unfit to be President. I think deep emotional problems are the root of his behavior , but since I do not have a degree in psychology I don't want to judge wether thise problem rise to the leval in insanity in clinical terms. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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25th August 2022, 03:08 PM | #2048 |
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25th August 2022, 04:43 PM | #2049 |
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Even if? As if there's doubt? A 'host' in that he sat there in his own hotel in a fake "boardroom" and...in his own words... he'd “go into the boardroom, rant and rave like a lunatic to these kids, and leave and go off and build my buildings." Any idiot with a loud mouth could do that. As far as it being a 'functional job', so is scrubbing toilets and mowing lawns.
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A former producer of the show had this to say about it:
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He was fired from being the host in Aug. 2015 and only named ex-prod in Dec. 2016. Just how involved in the show's production do you think a man who couldn't pay attention during WH daily intelligence briefings or bother reading his daily reports but instead had them read to him?
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That's one better than you quoted saying he was an integral part of he production of the show. A lot of others have called them "inappropriate" because of the Goldwater Rule. But how many called those diagnoses incorrect? "Worse"? Like what? Support that with evidence.
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25th August 2022, 04:56 PM | #2050 |
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25th August 2022, 05:04 PM | #2051 |
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25th August 2022, 05:05 PM | #2052 |
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25th August 2022, 05:13 PM | #2053 |
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25th August 2022, 05:17 PM | #2054 |
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25th August 2022, 05:38 PM | #2055 |
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And I repeat: mowing lawns is counted as 'functioning at a job'. So are cleaning toilets and being a paper delivery boy.
He was fired because he couldn't keep his damn mouth shut requiring editing to make him "more coherent". He refused to follow the script: he'd impulsively 'fire' the wrong person forcing the editors to go back and re-edit the show to fit the new "loser". His comments about immigrants being "rapists and murderers" was the last straw and NBC fired him. That is NOT "functioning at a job". You still haven't given me examples of " a lot of others" calling the diagnoses "worse" or given me example of how it "says what I just said" or of my "excuses for why it should be ignored". Do YOU think Trump is mentally ill? And please, do not fall back on the "I'm not a psychologist so I can't say," nonsense. I'm asking for an opinion, not a diagnosis. |
25th August 2022, 06:55 PM | #2056 |
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Yeah, it's a good thing this guy is non functional. Heaven forbid he should win a presidential race.
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25th August 2022, 10:09 PM | #2057 |
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26th August 2022, 12:03 AM | #2058 |
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26th August 2022, 06:34 AM | #2059 |
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It should be obvious, someone already said why, on top of that you yourself said why, the original poster included a key word that should have been a major tip off.
She is a family member who has been involved in disputes of hundreds of millions of dollars with him. But that's what I was answering in the first place. Frankly, I don't really care what you said. I don't have any particular interest in answering you. But I will say that I don't know if Trump is mentally ill and it's not freaking non-sense to realize I'm not qualified. |
26th August 2022, 08:40 AM | #2060 |
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Just got back from the super market where one of the baggers was shouting that he had 30 minutes left on his shift and that he'd be gone the second his time was up. (I cleaned that up, a bit)
One of the customers gave him a sympathetic "I hear ya'" look. But the guy wouldn't shut up. The checker looked a him and said "Turn down the volume". He just got louder. A floor manger (John) showed up and repeated a line that seemed to come from employee trainings "Talk quietly to the customers." The bagger yells, "John, you need more people up here." John gives the guy an icy stare and the guy finally shuts up. So the bagger was having a bad morning and he lost control reacting badly in violation of company rules. How is that different from Trump? |
26th August 2022, 08:42 AM | #2061 |
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26th August 2022, 08:44 AM | #2062 |
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26th August 2022, 09:38 AM | #2063 |
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26th August 2022, 09:48 AM | #2064 |
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It was the only one I had on me.
But my real point is that the average man or woman working a regular job shows better self-control than Trump. Granted being president is a stressful job. But he's not president anymore! I think this lack of self control is why so many folks look at him and wonder if he's nuts (the subject of this thread). |
26th August 2022, 09:53 AM | #2065 |
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26th August 2022, 10:12 AM | #2066 |
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I didn't say it was positive or that his presidency wasn't disastrous.
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26th August 2022, 11:03 AM | #2067 |
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The average person working at a job knows he can be fired. If he is a professional, he can lose his license. He can be sued. If he screws up big-time, he can even be arrested and prosecuted. None of that applies to the President. He is essentially untouchable.
Add to that the fact that Trump has been treated as a rich man's spoiled son all his life, and you have a 78-year-old man with the worldview of a toddler ("Those classified documents with nuclear secrets? They're all mine!"). That by itself is pretty clearly a psychiatric disorder. |
26th August 2022, 11:34 AM | #2068 |
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The fact that dozens of non-family member psychiatrists and psychologists agree with her should be a major tip off that her being his niece does not mean she is wrong.
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Your reply: "Producer and host of Celebrity Apprentice actually counts as functioning at a job." I provided evidence that he wasn't functioning adequately at that job and was fired as the host retaining only his credit as Exec-producer.
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Yes, I see that shattered tibia sticking out through the skin of that guy's leg, but I can't say he's got a broken leg because I'm not qualified. |
26th August 2022, 11:56 AM | #2069 |
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I'm an ultra liberal FFS. But live in whatever delusion you need.
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26th August 2022, 11:58 AM | #2070 |
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I'm so confused as to what the argument is here.
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26th August 2022, 12:08 PM | #2071 |
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Agreed. Not only does he have the worldview of a todder, he acts like one. A toddler throws his food against the wall in a tantrum. So does Trump. A toddler denies he has gotten into the cookie jar even though his hands and mouth are covered in the evidence of chocolate chip cookies. So does Trump. A toddler points out he got the biggest dessert. So does Trump.
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26th August 2022, 12:11 PM | #2072 |
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26th August 2022, 02:53 PM | #2073 |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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29th August 2022, 05:37 AM | #2074 |
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29th August 2022, 07:47 AM | #2075 |
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29th August 2022, 08:17 AM | #2076 |
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I don’t know that people with NPD or who could be called “sociopaths,” always exhibit dangerous behavior. I think it’s wrong to assume that it is so. I’ve talked before about how it’s a good thing for society to reduce stigma around mental illness so that more people feel comfortable in seeking treatment. That’s why I feel it’s so important to separate the two in public discourse. Trump’s behavior is paramount and is what makes him unfit for the Presidency. Any mental illnesses he might have are irrelevant and between him and his medical team. The hard fact is that anyone who behaves like Trump shouldn’t be President. Everything else is “squishy,” plenty of room for argument, accusations of bias -and in the end only serves to further largely undeserved stigmatization of the majority of people with mental illnesses, along with casting the Psychiatry profession in a bad light. The Goldwater Rule serves these purposes well. No one is saying that Psychiatrists can’t talk about Trump -Allen Frances talks about Trump. They just shouldn’t use diagnostic terms; that’s it. |
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29th August 2022, 08:30 AM | #2077 |
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29th August 2022, 10:51 AM | #2078 |
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The thing is that mental illness is largely defined by thinking and behavior. There's no MRI for malignant narcissism or borderline personality disorder or OCD or anything else in the DSM. And a lot of mental illness is an extreme extension of behavior that we generally consider normal, even desirable: We want people to feel good about themselves in a realistic way; success at most endeavors requires attention to accuracy and detail that doesn't become paralyzing obsession; etc., etc. When a Trump is displaying all the thinking and behavior that define identifiable mental illness, it really doesn't make much sense to tell experts that they can say they don't like the behavior, but can't share their educated observations about the cause.
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29th August 2022, 11:04 AM | #2079 |
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That's why I don't like how we conceptualize mental illness.
For all the talk of how we're supposed to treat mental illness the same as physical illness/injuries... we don't do anything close to that. Your leg is either broken or it isn't. Your leg isn't in a Schrodinger's State of Broken and Not Broken depending on if it try to walk on it and fail. But with mental illness its always that. "Are you mentally ill?" is almost always completely dependent on whether or not it meets the loose, arbitrary standard of "effecting your day to day life." Your leg is broken or not broken. You have cancer or don't have cancer. You have diabetes or you don't have diabetes. How much these things effect your life is a factor, but it's a totally different factor not part of the diagnosis. |
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29th August 2022, 12:26 PM | #2080 |
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Nowhere did I say they always exhibit dangerous behaviour. I agree it's wrong to assume that which is why I didn't assume or say that. I've agreed with you in the past that mental illness does not equate to being dangerous and that most mentally ill people are more a danger to themselves than to others.
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