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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old Today, 12:26 PM   #761
Vixen
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
As has happened before, you seem totally unable to distinguish between "in so many cases" and "in all cases". You mis-employ "in all cases" when it suits your position to do so. And then you employ further ludicrous hyperbole in an embarrassing attempt to bolster your position. Why is that, Vixen?

Regardless, sounds like this has all hit a nerve. Interesting, huh?
It's interesting you wheel out your pet theory with monotonous regularity, huh?

Looks like I've hit a nerve.

Could this be a photofit of a typical PIP according to LondonJohn's cod criminology theory?
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Old Today, 12:29 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Bwwwaaahaaahaaaa!! Here are some quotes from Deceit by NvdL. You think this kind of tripe is from a "good writer"? LondonJohn has it right: a 15 yr. old in a summer school remedial writing class could write better schlock than this :



I laughed the whole time I was reading this garbage.

"Drunk on coke and marijuana"? Why didn't the editor point out that no "coke" was found in Amanda's hair taken upon her arrest? If she had been a cocaine user, it would have shown in her hair. There was no evidence of Amanda ever using cocaine. In fact, the science supported that she was not a narcotics user. And no, marijuana is not a narcotic.

What is even more scary is that this all emanates from her normal personality disorder.

Creepier still, are the people who think she is great.
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Old Today, 12:36 PM   #763
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What is even more scary is that this all emanates from her normal personality disorder.

Creepier still, are the people who think she is great.
Care to produce an actual diagnosis the Knox has a "personality disorder"? And Miss Represented, that TJMK darling, doesn't count. She was a fake "psychologist", remember?

Creepier still, are people who feel the need to constantly slut-shame, denigrate, and post lies about her and the case.
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Old Today, 12:37 PM   #764
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Get real. In Kercher's room they tested a drinking glass, a fragment of toilet paper, wad of cotton, a hair formation, a gummy substance (like chewing gum), underwear, Kercher's blue jeans, roll of toilet paper, the inner door handle, a second hair formation, Kercher's jacket, and the bra strap and clasp...all not "bodily fluids or stains".

You have claimed that Knox was bleeding profusely, yet all the suspected and real blood stains from Kercher's room produced not a single DNA match for Knox. I suppose she knew her blood from Kercher's and cleaned only hers? After all, blood is very visibly distinguishable from one person to the next. I think Knox's was green. Mine's blue. What color is yours?

And if she "thought" a blood stain could be hers, why did she not wipe away the couple small drops on the faucet that were hers instead of pointing them out to the police? Or remove the mat with "Sollecito's" bloody footprint? Oh, right...she thought they wouldn't be able to identify it.

They dusted for fingerprints in that room and found...none of Knox's or Sollecito's. Are you going to suggest that, while "drunk on coke and marijuana" they knew exactly everything they had touched and, thus, could "wipe it" away?

Logic, common sense, and the universal opinion of forensic science experts, clearly show that selective cleaning of the type you propose is simply not possible.
Combination of arrogance, oversight and severe exhaustion after cleaning up all night - both at the cottage and at Raff's - doing some laundry, and staging the scene, in line with criminal theory, they were bound to leave SOMETHING behind.

With Leopold and Loeb, it was a pair of bespoke glasses left behind.

The crack in the door suggests Raff did indeed try to break down the door. But not to save Mez. Rather to retrieve the lamp which no doubt could be seen through the keyhole, the key to the room already disposed of.

Whoops!
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Old Today, 12:41 PM   #765
Vixen
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Care to produce an actual diagnosis the Knox has a "personality disorder"? And Miss Represented, that TJMK darling, doesn't count. She was a fake "psychologist", remember?

Creepier still, are people who feel the need to constantly slut-shame, denigrate, and post lies about her and the case.
It's not rocket science. You only need to look at Knox' antics in the aftermath of the murder and in court to realise she is 'not all there'.

Who else keeps rattling on about their sex life except a complete louche.

(And Donald Trump. Poor Melannia.)
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Old Today, 12:50 PM   #766
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Do read the Massei report wherein it is explained that Dr Stefanoni testified as follows in respect of her rationale for doing this:



In other words, she could see the drips were a similar shade of diluted blood and thus from the same sample.

Clear now?
So much ignorance in one short sentence. Incredible.

First, exactly how do you visually distinguish between diluted blood from two different people? It makes no difference if she THOUGHT two different drips came from the same source, she HAS to collect them as two separate samples and allow the lab to confirm they came from the same source.

Specific to the point LJ made, they swabbed large areas of the sink with a single swab, thereby ensuring they picked up all the latent DNA on the sink. There is no need to 'connect the dots' with a single swab, as Stefanoni seems to be saying. It just speaks to her incompetence as a forensic technician if she thinks this was proper collection technique.

Clear now?
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Old Today, 12:53 PM   #767
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's interesting you wheel out your pet theory with monotonous regularity, huh?

Looks like I've hit a nerve.

Could this be a photofit of a typical PIP according to LondonJohn's cod criminology theory?
"In so many cases" vs. "in all cases". Let's make this simple for you:

[i]In so many means "numerous". All means "entire quantity". Does that clear things up?

Quote:
...which in so many cases is predicated upon something that's happened to them or someone they know closely.
It's for this very reason that jurors are screened by both defense and prosecution lawyers. Potential jurors on murder cases are asked if they have had a loved one/friend murdered. In cases where police officers are involved, jurors are asked if they or a loved on is/was in law enforcement. In rape cases, potential jurors are asked if they or a loved one has been the victim of rape. It's very well known that our personal experiences color how we view things. I'm surprised you are unaware of it.
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Old Today, 01:10 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Combination of arrogance, oversight and severe exhaustion after cleaning up all night - both at the cottage and at Raff's - doing some laundry, and staging the scene, in line with criminal theory, they were bound to leave SOMETHING behind.

With Leopold and Loeb, it was a pair of bespoke glasses left behind.

The crack in the door suggests Raff did indeed try to break down the door. But not to save Mez. Rather to retrieve the lamp which no doubt could be seen through the keyhole, the key to the room already disposed of.

Whoops!
Sigh. The trouble with your claim, Vix, is that you keep ignoring the fact that no forensic scientist supports your belief that this kind of selective clean up is even possible. You do realize, don't you, that no evidence of a clean up was ever introduced into court by the prosecution? Why would that be?

Your excuse has now gone to the manifestly absurd. They could, and did, manage to clean up all their invisible DNA and fingerprints after determining which was theirs and which was Guede's, but they were just so darned tired that they left the most easily disposable evidence behind AND pointed it out to the police.

By the way, Amanda didn't do any laundry. The clothes in the washing machine were all Meredith's that she had put in the day before...none of them were what she was wearing when she was murdered. Stop making things up.

Are you back to Leopold's glasses again? You claimed Knox left the bathmat behind on purpose to taunt the police. As I pointed out to you last time, Leopold did not intentionally leave the glasses behind. They unknowingly fell out of his pocket. There is no correlation between that case and Kercher's murder. The former was a well planned out and executed murder while the latter was not. Quit bringing it up as it is totally irrelevant.
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Old Today, 01:18 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's not rocket science. You only need to look at Knox' antics in the aftermath of the murder and in court to realise she is 'not all there'.

Who else keeps rattling on about their sex life except a complete louche.

(And Donald Trump. Poor Melannia.)
No, it's not rocket science...but nor is it a qualified diagnosis. It's just something you pulled out of ...well...we've determined where that is previously.

If all one has to do is look at someone's behavior after a traumatic event that seems a bit odd, then why bother spending 8-12 years getting a degree in psychiatry or psychology? We could all make armchair diagnoses.

There you go again, bringing up her sex life. What is it with you and her sex life? I wonder what a psychologist would say about that...
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Old Today, 01:50 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What is even more scary is that this all emanates from her normal personality disorder.

Creepier still, are the people who think she is great.
First - what are your clinical psychology credentials?

Second - why do you rely on strawman argument?
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Old Today, 01:52 PM   #771
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
There you go again, bringing up her sex life. What is it with you and her sex life? I wonder what a psychologist would say about that...
Apparently we're not supposed to i.d. this as slut shaming, although in this case it was an element of the original wrongful conviction.
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Old Today, 02:21 PM   #772
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Apparently we're not supposed to i.d. this as slut shaming, although in this case it was an element of the original wrongful conviction.
I find it disingenuous to claim Knox is always bringing up her sex life when, in fact, she didn't bring it up in the first place; the prosecution did.

It was a central part of the prosecution's case against her concerning the motive. Yet, when Knox refers to this and how it played into her conviction, she is accused of such nonsense as "always bringing it up" and that she "claims to have invented sex". It's such silly statements as these that show just how warped some people's thinking is.
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Old Today, 02:26 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
[...]

Nick van der Leek alert

The reviews are coming in - maybe METHOS might want to add here.

[...]
Well, I've just finished the book and must say that it's an interesting read...
One interesting thing is the authors choice when it comes to references (or better perhaps the sources he copied/pasted from).

NvdL apart from using TMoMK's (google translated) transcripts, mostly sticks to contemporary "media reports" by the Daily Mail, ABC, Daily Beast, The Telegraph and so on, and in doing this falls prey to the lost in translation syndrome he's whining about later... (see below).

One example is when he gets excited about the "warm washing machine" and makes a lot of fuss about it (like it was made back then) apparently not even aware of the fact, that the word "umido" Romanelli used in her testimony simply means "wet" and of course that this nonsense has been cleared up quite some time ago.

It's almost 10 years since Meredith Kercher was murdered and thanks to the two Wikis, there's a treasure trove of original court documents available, but NvdL choses the easy path, going with the "media reports" and with that he's not even scratching the surface, in fact he's just dusting off a few of the long refuted myths about this case. Someone might want to tell him that copying and pasting is not doing research.

Speaking of sources and research, I think it should be clear that the "Daily Fail" is not a reliable source, but NvdL dedicates a whole chapter, titled "Becoming Amanda" to the analysis of "The wild, raunchy past of Foxy Knoxy" (I'm not joking ):
Quote:
How did Amanda become Amanda?
Who was she in 2007 and even before that? It’s difficult to believe a decade on, but just a month and two days after Meredith was murdered, and two years almost to the day before her first conviction, the Daily Mail nailed an expose on “Foxy Knoxy.”

van der Leek, Nick. DESPICABLE: First Trial and Conviction (Kindle-Positionen3293-3298). Kindle-Version.
Apart from going to the "Daily Fail" as a source, the following paragraph shows that despite all the information that is available with a mouse-click, NvdL isn't willing or able to do the simplest of research:
Quote:
It’s unfortunate that this tabloid article wasn’t simply fielded in court in June 2009, and Knox asked to comment on it. It’s also unfortunate Philip Setran, Knox’s former college roommate, wasn’t called in as witness. Such are the limits of languages and the extent of what gets lost, potentially, in translation.

van der Leek, Nick. DESPICABLE: First Trial and Conviction (Kindle-Positionen3298-3300). Kindle-Version.
Mr van der Leek recomments TMoMK as a "credible resource and archive for this case". It looks like he hasn't taken a closer look at what they have to offer:
The following can be easily found in the TMoMK file library:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary3/docs/articles-news/2007-12-03-Article-MailOnline-Malone-Police-translation-Italian.pdf
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary3/docs/articles-news/2007-12-03-Article-MailOnline-Malone-Police-translation-Italian-excerpts-translator-notes.pdf
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary3/docs/articles-news/2007-12-03-Article-MailOnline-Malone-webpage-Knox-history.pdf

So, yes, the Daily Fail article was "simply file in court" and surprise, surprise "Knox [was] asked to comment on it."
From the translation of Amanda Knox's testimony on TMoMK:
Quote:
GM: I have another question. You had a 250 dollar fine from the court in Seattle.
AK: What? Oh, yes, yes.
GM: Can you explain this event? What was the motive?
AK: In Seattle, I lived with four friends of mine in a house. When our lease ended, we wanted to have a party to celebrate the end of our time living together and also just the end of the year. So, we had a party. At the party there was a band, one of my friends played in it. So there was a band, and they made such a tremendous racket that the neighbors called the police to come and stop the noise. Since I was the person in the best state to talk to the police right then, I went out of the house and took responsibility for the noise. So I got the fine, and everybody helped me pay it.
GM: Do you know about the article that appeared on "Mail Online", by [name?], on Dec 3 2007, which refers to the event -- I ask for the acquisition of this article -- in which the episode is described with many details. There is also a translation into Italian. I would like to ask for the translation of this article. [Intervention: "This will be made available to all parties." A fairly long pause.]
GCM: Excuse me. Is there actually a question?
GM: It talks about incredibly loud music, drugs, alcohol and throwing rocks into the street.
GCM: Could you please ask actual questions?
GM: Yes. Do you remember this episode?
GCM: Excuse me. The pubblico ministero is asking-- you described this episode in the terms we just heard. But the pubblico ministero is asking whether there was use of alcohol and drugs on that occasion, or whether it was just a question of too much noise making a disturbance?"
AK: So in fact--
GM: And other things. In the article there's also--
GCM: The Court doesn't know anything about this. Excuse me, please. All right, let's say "And other things?"
GM: There is a report by police officer Bender.
GCM: Oh, all right. Okay, okay. Let's just make specific and precise questions. [Noise] Excuse me, excuse me. Please, please. You just briefly sketched the episode. The pubblico ministero is asking for details. For instance, about the use of drugs and the alcohol.
AK: So, there was alcohol at this party; we had beer. I didn't know anything about drugs because I was inside the house.
GM: So you don't know about drugs.
AK: Right. I don't know about drugs at the party, but there was beer for sure.
GCM: Anything else? Beer, and anything else?
AK: And noise.
GM: I can ask other questions on this point. It's been mentioned that there were naked people around. And rocks getting thrown at windows and into the street, so much that it was blocking the traffic--
CDV?: Excuse me, excuse me! That was the article, but it could say things that aren't true.
GCM: Excuse me, excuse me, please! It has been requested that this document be produced and placed at the disposal of all parties. Then the Court will see. If there are other questions--
GM: Is it true what this article says?
AK: [Laughing] No. No.

GCM: But do you have specific questions?
GM: What is the significance of this sum of 269 dollars?
GCM: She said it, it's a ticket. A fine. Payment of a sum.
GM: But penal?
AK: It's like when you park your car in a forbidden place and you have to pay a fine. It's the same thing.
GCM: All right, all right. She represented the facts and she represented their consequences. We don't have to give the administrative or penal analysis now.
I was about to shorten the quote, but I think the whole thing shows how desperate Dr. Mignini was to establish that Knox already had a "criminal conviction in the US"... based on a British tabloid article... (that's food for thought, isn't it?)
As a sidenote Dr. Mignini also used that article in his appeal against the mitigating circumstances the Massei court found in favour of Knox...


Long story short: It looks like, despite having written now four books about the case, NvdL has no idea what he's writing about and at least to me it looks like he has no intention to change that...
(Looks like I wasted another few hours of my life )
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Old Today, 02:45 PM   #774
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
Well, I've just finished the book and must say that it's an interesting read...
One interesting thing is the authors choice when it comes to references (or better perhaps the sources he copied/pasted from).

NvdL apart from using TMoMK's (google translated) transcripts, mostly sticks to contemporary "media reports" by the Daily Mail, ABC, Daily Beast, The Telegraph and so on, and in doing this falls prey to the lost in translation syndrome he's whining about later... (see below).

One example is when he gets excited about the "warm washing machine" and makes a lot of fuss about it (like it was made back then) apparently not even aware of the fact, that the word "umido" Romanelli used in her testimony simply means "wet" and of course that this nonsense has been cleared up quite some time ago.

It's almost 10 years since Meredith Kercher was murdered and thanks to the two Wikis, there's a treasure trove of original court documents available, but NvdL choses the easy path, going with the "media reports" and with that he's not even scratching the surface, in fact he's just dusting off a few of the long refuted myths about this case. Someone might want to tell him that copying and pasting is not doing research.

Speaking of sources and research, I think it should be clear that the "Daily Fail" is not a reliable source, but NvdL dedicates a whole chapter, titled "Becoming Amanda" to the analysis of "The wild, raunchy past of Foxy Knoxy" (I'm not joking ):


Apart from going to the "Daily Fail" as a source, the following paragraph shows that despite all the information that is available with a mouse-click, NvdL isn't willing or able to do the simplest of research:

Mr van der Leek recomments TMoMK as a "credible resource and archive for this case". It looks like he hasn't taken a closer look at what they have to offer:
The following can be easily found in the TMoMK file library:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary3/docs/articles-news/2007-12-03-Article-MailOnline-Malone-Police-translation-Italian.pdf
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary3/docs/articles-news/2007-12-03-Article-MailOnline-Malone-Police-translation-Italian-excerpts-translator-notes.pdf
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary3/docs/articles-news/2007-12-03-Article-MailOnline-Malone-webpage-Knox-history.pdf

So, yes, the Daily Fail article was "simply file in court" and surprise, surprise "Knox [was] asked to comment on it."
From the translation of Amanda Knox's testimony on TMoMK:

I was about to shorten the quote, but I think the whole thing shows how desperate Dr. Mignini was to establish that Knox already had a "criminal conviction in the US"... based on a British tabloid article... (that's food for thought, isn't it?)
As a sidenote Dr. Mignini also used that article in his appeal against the mitigating circumstances the Massei court found in favour of Knox...


Long story short: It looks like, despite having written now four books about the case, NvdL has no idea what he's writing about and at least to me it looks like he has no intention to change that...
(Looks like I wasted another few hours of my life )
Oh, heavens...it's even worse than I thought! He actually brought up the "warm washing machine" nonsense and the "scene out of Baghdad" with "backup called" riot in the street party where Amanda was "arrested"? That is hysterical! So much for vdLeek's books being "perfectly valid" and "well-researched"! He just sits at his computer, does some googling and then C&P's it without doing a modicum of real research.

I'd be embarrassed to have my name linked to his "books".

Quote:
Someone might want to tell him that copying and pasting is not doing research.
You mean like an editor?
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Old Today, 03:07 PM   #775
Methos
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
[...]
You mean like an editor?
The person in question isn't mentioned in the book at all, not as an editor or something else.

But, well, going by NvdL's logic:
Quote:
*Knox’s memoir was ghost written by Linda Kulman, a writer who has also written for Hillary Clinton when she was First Lady, boxing champion George Foreman and New York governor Andrew Cuomo.

van der Leek, Nick. DESPICABLE: First Trial and Conviction (Kindle-Positionen664-666). Kindle-Version.
...based on:
Quote:
I wouldn’t have been able to write this memoir without Linda
Kulman. Somehow, with her Post-it Notes and questions, with her generosity, dedication, and empathy, she turned my rambling into writing, and taught me so much in the meantime. I am grateful to her family—Ralph, Sam, Julia—for sharing her with me for so long.
from "Waiting to be Heard", I'd say it's save to say that the book('s?) said person is credited as an editor by NvdL was/were actually "ghost written" by said person
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