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Old 9th November 2008, 11:08 PM   #41
MIKILLINI
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Originally Posted by Homeland Insurgency View Post
Well whoever did 9/11 I doubt they were much concerned with collateral damage other then wanting a lot of it.
They must have figured flying planes into buildings wouldn't be enough of a shocking impression, so they took additional, more risky chances to ensure the buildings collapsed. This, of course, creating more chances of exposure to getting caught or the plan failing.
Whoever they were....oh wait, who were they?
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Old 9th November 2008, 11:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Homeland Insurgency View Post
Well whoever did 9/11 I doubt they were much concerned with collateral damage other then wanting a lot of it.
So if it was a CD, why push the button an hour after the crashes? Why not do it immediately on impact then get the paid off engineers at NIST and FEMA to conclude that the planes impact had brought down the buildings?
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Old 9th November 2008, 11:53 PM   #43
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That was the stupidest OP I've read since ULTIMA1's "93's intercept document coming soon" OP.
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Old 10th November 2008, 12:16 AM   #44
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Hey, show some respect. This is the first Truther in a long, long, long time who has actually provided a clear narrative rather than "just asking questions" and making vague, shifty, evasive claims. This is the kind of behavior we want to encourage from them (provided that de-Truthifying them is out of the question).
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Old 10th November 2008, 01:17 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by 1337m4n View Post
Hey, show some respect. This is the first Truther in a long, long, long time who has actually provided a clear narrative rather than "just asking questions" and making vague, shifty, evasive claims. This is the kind of behavior we want to encourage from them (provided that de-Truthifying them is out of the question).
Perhaps true, but at the same time anyone who has ever flown should instantly recognise the idiocy of such statements as "After check-in they leave the airport through a side exit."
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Old 10th November 2008, 02:02 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Perhaps true, but at the same time anyone who has ever flown should instantly recognise the idiocy of such statements as "After check-in they leave the airport through a side exit."
You are missing the point. The reason they could leave the airport was that airport security from all 9/11 departure airports was controlled by Huntleigh, a subsidiary of ICTS in Holland. ICTS is led by an Israeli fellow named Menahem Atzmon. Atzmon was a collegue of Olmert around 1998, both working for the Likud. Atzmon is a convicted criminal, so not directly a person with high ethical standards. So there you have the link between the highest Israeli political level and the 9/11 operative level (airport). It was Atzmon's job to make sure that the surveillance camera pictures of 'Atta' and friends (read: Israeli stand-ins) where send around the world and that the 'hijackers' could leave the airport through a side entrance. This is not an inplausible story, is it? It is not proof that it happened this way, but the fact that all departures airport security was controlled by one firm, led by a guy with links to the highest level of Israeli politics should make any Sherlock Holmes start to think.

Thanks for the reactions, in particular the non-smearing and sneering ones (not many of them unfortunately).

No, this is not a drive-by shooting op, it is an attempt to you use your brains for my purpose, that is harvesting intelligent comments and interesting links to either strengthen or reject 'my' theory.

I'll come back later to address the 2-3 comments that were somehow interesting.

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Old 10th November 2008, 02:19 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
...This is not an inplausible story, is it? It is not proof that it happened this way, but the fact that all departures airport security was controlled by one firm, led by a guy with links to the highest level of Israeli politics should make any Sherlock Holmes start to think.
It is implausible.

But your direct approach is commendable.

Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character, written by a man who also believed in mediums and spirits. No one actually operates like him.

Instead of links, you need evidence.
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Old 10th November 2008, 02:22 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
It is not proof that it happened this way, but the fact that all departures airport security was controlled by one firm, led by a guy with links to the highest level of Israeli politics should make any Sherlock Holmes start to think.
And how would Israel benefit from this false-flag operation? Republicans are, for the most part, out of power now primarily due to the war in Iraq and the Democrats aren't nearly as Israel-friendly as the Republicans. 9/11 did not help Israel at all in the long run.

And do you seriously think that the Mossad would have the balls to try to pull off something as big as this, knowing that one mistake could potentially blow the whole operation and bringing the almighty wrath of the world's most powerful military squarely upon their shoulders?

I don't see them chancing it.
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Old 10th November 2008, 02:27 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
my friend. its a lovely story. very imaginative. but if you have NO EVIDENCE..it is worthless!!!!
No it is not.

I'll cut and paste a comment I made from another forum

Sure, we all want answers or rather: we want the truth, not just answers. But there is no away around theorizing.

Let's have a comparisson which we can use further on in the discussion:

FBI Commisar Bernard Bully sends his inspector Richard Razorsharp to a crime scene. Razorsharp goes to the apartment were a dead body has been found. He starts with fact finding. He compiles a list just like Jon has made: he collects the victim's mobile phone, his address book, he puts half filled wine glasses in a plastic bag (after emptying them first), collects finger prints, he talks with neighbours to find out if they heard anything yesterday noght, saw visitors, etc. This fact finding stops after 1-2 days. What Razorsharp cannot afford to do is continue fact finding for 7 years! He will get grave problems with Bernard Bully. Bully wants results. Instead of continue fact finding, Razorsharp sits behind his desk and starts to think. Sure, Razorsharp (just like Jon) wants answers. But just wanting answers is not enough. He has to theorize. There is no other way. He has to come up with a list of suspects. And the list of suspects is based on possible MOTIVES. Qui bono. That's the recurring pattern in all these sitcom whodunnits and in real life crime fighting. And there is no other way for us 911-truthers as well.


What I have done is an attempt to reconstruct what happened on 9/11. You cannot hope to find proof at the beginning of the research process, that's the final step. There is no way around narratives. Once you have such a narrative you start testing your narrative and adapting it along the way. That is how all television detectives are structured.

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Old 10th November 2008, 02:33 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
Which is why the U.S. promptly went and attacked the Taliban in Afghanistan as a response to 9/11, completely avoiding the portions of the Middle East that are even vaguely close to Israel for at least another year.
The US conquered Iraq some 18 months later.
Israel has peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt. If the war in Iraq had not turned badly as it did they sure would have attacked Syria and maybe Iran.

They had this little 'axis of evil' short list.
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Old 10th November 2008, 02:57 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
The US conquered Iraq some 18 months later.
Israel has peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt. If the war in Iraq had not turned badly as it did they sure would have attacked Syria and maybe Iran.

They had this little 'axis of evil' short list.
I assume by "they" you mean the US.

So now you are implying that we would not have been content with just removing Saddam from power so, while we're in the neighborhood and all, we would have also attempted unprovoked invasions of two sovereign nations.

Are you insane? For what possible purpose would we do that knowing the worldwide condemnation we would receive?

You do realize that the decision to invade Iraq was unpopular with a large part of our citizens from the start and would never have received the required support of Congress had it not been for the (erroneous) WMD intelligence reports, don't you? Unlike Afghanistan, there never was any solid evidence linking Iraq to Al-Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks.

There would have been a nationwide clamor for Bush's immediate resignation had he even dared to ask for approval for either a Syrian or Iranian invasion.
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Old 10th November 2008, 03:04 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
except that never happened
Refers to power down.

The link in my blog is dead. Try: google '9/11 wtc power cuts' --> more than 100.000 hits.

www investigate911 com/911facts.htm
(had to enter spaces).

FACT: In the weekends prior to 9/11, the Twin Towers were shut down, evacuated and the power cut completely off. Employees complained such has never happened in their twenty years of working in the Twin Towers. Employees witnessed numerous foreign-looking workers carrying heavy bags of equipment into the Twin Towers;

www willthomasonline net/willthomasonline/The_WTC.html

POWER DOWN
Scott Forbes is taking the day off. The senior database administrator has worked all weekend and into Monday morning to shepherd every Fiduciary Trust's computer system safely back online after the WTC's first “power-down” saw the New York Port Authority cut electricity to the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason given was to install a fiber optic upgrade to increase the Trade Center's computer bandwidth.

But why only to the upper floors? Forbes wonders. And why power down the upper floors when the announced upgrade involves fiber optic cables that conduct light, not electricity?

As one of the Trade Center's first occupants, Fiduciary Trust spent a great deal of time and money powering down their computer systems prior to the power cut, which began early Saturday, September 8th and continued until mid-afternoon the following day. Computer consultants and their own staffs are still at work this morning in the Fiduciary offices on the 90th and 94th through 97th floors in the South Tower.

For nearly 30-hours, the WTC's upper floor elevators and security systems have been rendered inoperative. Though power remained to the lower floors, Forbes has seen many unfamiliar faces roaming freely through the upper corridors. In an email to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died and America's Autopsy Report, Forbes wrote, “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower.”


Remember: the security in all departure airports was in one Israeli hand. The same was the case with the 'arrival airport' (i.e. WTC) --> Kroll associates. Now if you open this diagram I made again:
3.bp.blogspot.com/_qhtLksupqDs/SQlwo9U4zuI/AAAAAAAAABA/Cqp3_WOI3TM/s1600-h/911-solution.jpg
You see that Kroll is owned by Maurice Greenberg; yes that very influental fellow that got a taxpayer funded bailout of some 75 billion it was, I believe. Silverstein is a good friend of Netanjahu. So, all the 9/11 players on the operative level have the highest connections. Do you not find this significant? Silverstein via Kroll can do what he wants with the twin towers.

Quote:
how many charges were planted? how much thermite was in each? how many trucks did this require? how many members in the team? how long would it take to plant each charge? is this feasible in the span of 1 weekend? how did the thermite cut horizontally?

never happened
How many ....? Do not know, I was not there; neither were you to disprove it.
They could do most preparations outside of WTC. In the shabby premisses of Urban Moving Systems they could spend days or weeks making hundreds or thousands of compact packages filled with thermite or other explosives and attach a radiographic controlled detonator to it, fill a couple a vans with these packages, etc (see post 1). And you guys do remember that a van with Israelis was arrested at the Holland tunnel with traces of explosives found in it.

whatreallyhappened com/WRHARTICLES/arrested_israelis2.html

How much proof do you need?

Why this horizontal cut thing? I thought the idea was to cut under an angle to make the building 'walk'/implode?


Quote:
what voice morphing technology available in 2001 could change a voice in realtime to fool someones own family?
In my blog I have this link:
www brickhousesecurity com / spoofcard-cellphonecallrecorder-voicechanger.html
That's obvious technology available now.

2001 advertisements have gone. Do you have any suggestions that the technology was NOT available? My Commodore64 was able to read aloud typed in sentences. Bad quality OK, but that was 1984.


Quote:
how did the stand-in callers know to tell their families things only the passengers themselves would know? (IE recognizing family members by voice, instructing someone to retrieve something from a safe, complete with combination to said safe, and so on)
This is the key document to the answer:

www antiwar com/orig/ketcham.php?articleid=13506

Israeli firms like Amdocs and Verint are virtually able to eavesdrop on the entire US. That means, that once the Israeli agents got hold of the/a partial passenger lists (many people book flights weeks in advance) then they could go to their budies at Amdocs and ask them to easvesdrop on 10-20 people and to find out details just as you are suggesting.

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Old 10th November 2008, 03:14 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
No, this is not a drive-by shooting op, it is an attempt to you use your brains for my purpose, that is harvesting intelligent comments and interesting links to either strengthen or reject 'my' theory.
Then let's start at the beginning.

"a nearly worthless WTC building complex" - it wasn't worthless, or "nearly". The only solid quote on the only source you provide says the Port Authority were planning to spend $800,000 on a variety of things including asbestos abatement. The Port Authority also said the place was very busy, and making money, and that's backed up by the number of bidders they got. (More thoughts here.) The very first motive you propose doesn't stand up.

"in the weekend before 9/11 cuts off power in all the WTC buildings with 'maintenance' as an excuse, so the buildings are virtually empty" - if this refers to Scott Forbes (the link is dead) then he actually said the power in his floors was cut off, not "all the buildings". Nor did he say the buildings were "virtually empty". Reader's who've encountered him before will now begin to believe that you make things up to help your theory sound impressive, or that you uncritically accept what you read on other truther sites without confirming it's true, neither of which makes you look very good.

"At that moment the coast is clear to let a team of demolition experts from the israeli army led by Peer Segalovitz into the WTC buildings" - the coast was not clear, and there's no evidence for this at all.

"Hamburg 54 Marienstrasse, july 2000, 22:40. Mohamed Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah" are supposedly killed and replaced by Israeli operatives. But you don't explain why Ramzi Binalshibh and others wouldn't have noticed this when they met Atta on more than one occasion in 2001, or why Jarrah's girlfriend wouldn't have realised then they met several times pre-9/11. Or why their families wouldn't have noticed (Jarrah's said he called them frequently). Or how this fits in with all three actually arriving in the US in June, so they weren't in Hamburg in July anyway. Or why Jarrah happened to be at 54 Marienstrasse even before this date, as from memory he didn't live there. As you don't answer these questions, or provide the slightest evidence to support your ideas, I think the most likely explanation is probably that your explanation is wrong & that the real Atta, al-Shehhi and Jarrah made it to the US.
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Old 10th November 2008, 03:14 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
The US conquered Iraq some 18 months later.
I also resent your use of the term "conquered" like it was some prize territory to be added to the vast growing Empire of the U.S.

Iraq is still a sovereign nation with the added bonus of boasting free and open elections for the first time in many years. The US military even has to obtain permission that it does not always receive from the Iraqi government to operate in sensitive and sacred areas of the country.
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Old 10th November 2008, 03:29 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Just the other evening I watched a show on Discovery Canada about the demolishion of Launch Complex 36. Anyone who thinks that a building can be prepared for demolishion over a weekend are, to put it lightly, not living in this Universe.
Unless most of the preparation is done before that weekend. In my theory they had hundresd if not thousands of compact packages with radiographic controlled detonators. All the had to do is to attach them to columns. How? With rubber bands, glue, iron wire, textile, anything. I cannot see why it should be impossible to attach let's say 2000 prepared packages with a crew of 10-20 in 2 days time.
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Old 10th November 2008, 03:31 AM   #56
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I don't get it... how does a Mossad plot qualify as an "inside job"? Doesn't an inside job imply you were attacked by your own people?
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Old 10th November 2008, 03:33 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
In my blog I have this link:
www brickhousesecurity com / spoofcard-cellphonecallrecorder-voicechanger.html
That's obvious technology available now.

2001 advertisements have gone. Do you have any suggestions that the technology was NOT available? My Commodore64 was able to read aloud typed in sentences. Bad quality OK, but that was 1984.
This "obvious technology available now" is only capable of shifting a voice to a higher or lower octave. It does not have the effect of altering a person's accent, inflection or other speech patterns. In other words, if a person has a thick southern accent the output from the voice changer will still have a thick southern accent at a higher or lower frequency. And it most certainly does not have the realtime ability to match another person's unique voiceprint.

Quote:
Israeli firms like Amdocs and Verint are virtually able to eavesdrop on the entire US. That means, that once the Israeli agents got hold of the/a partial passenger lists (many people book flights weeks in advance) then they could go to their budies at Amdocs and ask them to easvesdrop on 10-20 people and to find out details just as you are suggesting.
I find it unlikely that anyone would coincidentally recite the combination to his or her safe so nonchalantly as to be picked up by "virtual" eavesdropping. At any rate, Amdocs is not a service provider here in the US so it is unlikely they can eavesdrop on anything more complicated that 2 tin cans connected by a string. Since AT&T also happens to own a significant portion of Amdocs stock I don't think that they would see it in their best interests to rock the boat here in the US.

You still haven't answered my question on how Israel would have benefitted so greatly from this false-flag that it was worth risking exposure.

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Old 10th November 2008, 03:34 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
You are missing the point. The reason they could leave the airport was that airport security from all 9/11 departure airports was controlled by Huntleigh, a subsidiary of ICTS in Holland.

I hate to burst your silly little bubble, but this is false. One is forced to wonder why it is you are so eager to believe the words of a known anti-Semite bigot.
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Old 10th November 2008, 03:47 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
we all know the jooz wanna rule the world. Not the Pakistanis or Iranians...or Saudis.

what about the Russians? they pulled 4 false flags in Moscow in 1999...why not in NYC in 2001?
Because nothing is linked to the Russians. And what is the motive? Why would Russia give the US a motive to invade the Middle East which holds 60% of worlds oil reserves. Russia was very weak anno 2001. Fortunately no longer.

Who IS implicated?

Arabs: flight schools, pictures from security camera's, phone calls from airplanes (Arabs with box cutters, let's roll). That's it. I maintain all 3 are fake.

Israelis: Silverstein (WTC, anti-terrorist insurance weeks before 9/11), Odigo, Dancing Israelis and of course Clean Break and PNAC. And Dov Zakheim working 4 years prior to 9/11 for SPC, a company that produces systems to remotely control airplanes. Up to 8 at a time as the brochure informs us.

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Old 10th November 2008, 03:58 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Israelis: Silverstein (WTC, anti-terrorist insurance weeks before 9/11), Odigo, Dancing Israelis and of course Clean Break and PNAC. And Dov Zakheim working 4 years prior to 9/11 for SPC, a company that produces systems to remotely control airplanes. Up to 8 at a time as the brochure informs us.
Yes, but you still haven't answered the all important why.
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Old 10th November 2008, 03:58 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Here is a short summary of the theory of how 9/11 was done:

- 9/11 = remote control + controlled demolition.
- originators: mastermind Zakheim; political nod by Olmert, Netanjahu in Israel and Cheney and probably Guiliani in the US.
- Olmert + Atzmon were Likud colleagues in 1998; Atzmon convicted in Israel for fraud went abroad to Holland --> CEO of ICTS (airport security) with Huntleigh subsidiary in the US, who did all the departure airports.
No they didn't, but let's see what else you have.


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- Netanjahu + Silverstein were involved as well. Silverstein buys worthless WTC, worthless because of asbestos: clean-up cost higher then net worth of complex. Silverstein buys and insures with German insurer against terrorist acts a few weeks before 9/11.
Silverstein didn't buy the WTC, and it was highly profitable, and at nearly full capacity. Silverstein tried to have it insured for a ridiculously low amount and was forced to increase it (though still well under replacement value).


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Silverstein and Netanjahu are wel acqainted with each other.
- Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah (3 'pilots') lived together in Hamburg. They got killed there by Israeli agents and dumped in the Elbe with bag filled with stones around their ankles; passport confiscated and used to lay a trail in the US at flight schools with Israeli stand-ins.
You forgot to mention that the Israeli stand-ins looked exactly like them. In fact, they looked so much like them that when Al-Shehhi's Israeli double travelled to Morocco in early 2001 to visit his family, they were completely fooled, as were the Al Qaeda operators of a safe house in Spain.

Of course then there's Jarrah, who, unlike the other hijackers, did not break off relations at all, and during his training he repeatedly visited his family and his German-Turkish girlfriend. All of them were, of course, totally fooled by the amazing Mossad double.



Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- In the weekend before 9/11 power is switched off in the entire WTC complex, excuse: maintenance. UMS vans loaded with prepared charges drive into basements of the WTC complex, next to elevator, unloads, open the ceiling of elevator roof and lift all the charges onto the roof of the elevator. Move elevator from floor to floor and connect charges to carrying columns. Leader of Israeli team is Peer Segalovitz, a demolition expert of the Israeli army.
It's a pity this complex-wide shut down never occurred. But hey, minor detail.


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- On 9/11 it is this crew that waits on the other side of the Hudson for things to come, with camera's ('dancing Israelis').
Why?


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- At the same time in Boston: the Israeli stand-ins for Atta and others arrive at the airport, with security as mentioned by Huntleigh/Atzmon. Makes sure the camera captures them. After check-in they leave the airport through a side exit. They do NOT enter the disaster planes.
We've covered the whole airport security thing, but that last point is interesting. The flight manifest records who actually physically enters the aircraft. I must presume, therefore, that you're claiming American Airlines and United Airlines are in on this plot to destroy four of their aircraft and murder a large number of their own employees (not to mention cause devastating damage to the airline industry) for the sake of Israel's peace of mind.


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- Planes get air born. After some time the pilot observes that his entire control panel is disabled and that the airplane has changed course; he tries frantically to regain control of his aircraft, does not succeed. Obviously he does NOT inform his passengers in order not to cause panic. The passengers suspect nothing and hence make NO phone calls to relatives (which is impossible given altitude and speed anyway with cell phones).
Ah, those pesky phone calls. They really are a thorn in the Conspiracy Theorist's side aren't they? It's a shame someone forgot to disable the pilots' radios because Air Traffic Control heard one of the hijackings take place.


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- Meanwhile, on the ground, Israeli start making phone calls to relatives of passengers in the planes and tell the fable of the hijackers with box cutters. They are using simple commercially available devices based on voice morphing and caller-ID spoofing (see blog for links). My contribution to the solution is that I found out how these agents got hold of sound samples in order to make voice morphing possible in the first place (keyword: Israeli firm Amdocs that has infiltrated US telecom networks).

Ah yes, because every single passenger on these aircraft booked their flight so far in advance the ninjas could actually gather enough detailed personal information about them to fool their relatives. Do you have any idea how utterly pathetically stupid the above is?


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
This in summary is the plot to do list:
This should be good.


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- buying WTC (and insure against terrorist acts for nice profit)
Well they forgot to buy it, and they badly under insured it, so not off to a good start. 0/2


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- killing Atta and friends in Hamburg and taking passports and dumping bodies
- laying trail at flight schools
Except those pesky patsies somehow came back to life and visited their friends and loved ones repeatedly. Should have seen that one coming. 0/3


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- buying large amounts of thermite and detonators and prepare at safe location
2000lb of thermite - $4.2 million
10,000m of detonating wire - $45,000
2,000 ignition charges - $23,000
Realising thermite can't be used for building demolition - priceless

0/4


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- get hold of passenger list and collect sound samples using Amdocs
Curse those last minute cancellations and bookings.

0/5


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- largest chunk: drive into WTC complex with vans and mount prepared charges in a weekend
Oops, forgot about the PAPD and their bomb sniffer dogs. 0/6


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- make 10-20 or so phone calls to relatives using samples for voice morphing + caller-ID spoofing
You think in the planning stage someone would have suggested the phone calls were a bad idea. 0/7


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- push the buttons in WTC-7 after impact of planes
The severe fire damage, structural damage, and FDNY professional assessment of the building's condition was of course sheer coincidence. 0/8

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
9/11, that's it.
Worse conspiracy ever. Ever.


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Is that too much to ask in order to get an army of 150.000 moving to capture the ME-oilfields and make the ME safe for Israel? I do not think so. It is not much work. It is a beauty of an efficient plot!
It is the stupidest thing a homo sapiens sapiens has ever suggested.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:01 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
I hate to burst your silly little bubble, but this is false. One is forced to wonder why it is you are so eager to believe the words of a known anti-Semite bigot.
If Hitler were to tell me in a shrieking voice and with clenched fists that 2*2=4, then I would think 'the guy is right' and continue with my business. That probably makes me an anti-semite in your book, but I could not care less.

As far as I know Bollyn is a christian, was married with a jewess and lived in Israel once. Not exactly the classical beer hall anti-semite CV.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
As far as I know Bollyn is a christian, was married with a jewess and lived in Israel once. Not exactly the classical beer hall anti-semite CV.
Bollyn is also a fugitive from justice in this country. Not exactly the classical upstanding citizen.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:12 AM   #64
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btw, voice-morphing is more advanced than just pitch-shifting, but it is nowhere near capable of faking the calls.

To do that, you'd have to know all about the passengers, enough to fool their loved ones.

as for the rest, we have Godwin & misunderstanding the 'ad hom'.

But, Gumboot has made the most substantial effort so far.

What have you to say to Gumboot's specific points?

That they're not nice enough?

What do you say, Sherlock?
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:12 AM   #65
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Mod WarningPosts removed for being off topic and/or uncivil. Please keep to topic, and do not start bickering and makign personal attacks.

9/11-investigator. It is ok for you to have referenced and linked to your blog. Please do not continue to quote extensively from it, as this is seen as spamming which is a breach of your Membership Agreement.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:14 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Unless most of the preparation is done before that weekend. In my theory they had hundresd if not thousands of compact packages with radiographic controlled detonators. All the had to do is to attach them to columns. How? With rubber bands, glue, iron wire, textile, anything. I cannot see why it should be impossible to attach let's say 2000 prepared packages with a crew of 10-20 in 2 days time.
And just in time to have these carefully prepared packages blown off of the columns by airplane impact and destroyed by the resulting fires, assuming of course that they weren't noticed by one of the thousands of building occupants.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:19 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
If Hitler were to tell me in a shrieking voice and with clenched fists that 2*2=4, then I would think 'the guy is right' and continue with my business.

This is all well and good, but your problem here is you're spouting things that quite simply are not true. You clearly haven't made any attempt to independently verify Bollyn's claims otherwise you would know they are false. In contrast, you presumably have known since childhood that 2X2=4, thus when Hitler affirms this fact to you, it is something you are already aware of, and there is no need to verify Hitler's claim.

Let's focus on a simple basic point which you've claimed repeatedly.

Security at the airports. You seem to be claiming that Huntleigh USA held the security contract at Logan International Airport, Washington Dulles International Airport and Newark International Airport in September 11, 2001. However, as you mention going through check in, I'll have to assume you also mean they had the contract for security for United Airlines and American Airlines at these airports. What you seem to have missed is that Airlines provided their own security.

Now, this claim is rather startling, but sadly it isn't true. If you do a bit of digging, as I did, you'll soon discover that Huntleigh only had one contract of interest - baggage handling for United Airlines. They didn't have any relevant security contracts with any of the airports or either of the airlines. In fact, if you had bothered to pay attention to your own conspiracy theorist friends you'd know that a company called Securacom had the security contract for Washington Dulles International Airport that morning.

Of course, if you'd bothered to do any research you'd know this already, so clearly you haven't. That means you took Bollyn's word for it. So I'll ask again. Why are you so eager to believe whatever that man claims?
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:24 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
btw, voice-morphing is more advanced than just pitch-shifting, but it is nowhere near capable of faking the calls.
The call recorder/voice changer he was referring to earlier as "available technology" can hardly be called a voice morphing device. The example he used is basically a harmonizer resulting in an octave shift either higher or lower.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:43 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Good evening, greetings from Amsterdam/Holland.
Kudos to all the responds and not a single stoner joke.

Quote:
- Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah (3 'pilots') lived together in Hamburg. They got killed there by Israeli agents and dumped in the Elbe with bag filled with stones around their ankles; passport confiscated and used to lay a trail in the US at flight schools with Israeli stand-ins.

So all you need to proof your theory true is to dreg a chunk of the Elbe, and the greatest conspiracy is proven true?

Gosh thats awesome.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:48 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
The call recorder/voice changer he was referring to earlier as "available technology" can hardly be called a voice morphing device. The example he used is basically a harmonizer resulting in an octave shift either higher or lower.
Oh, I get your point.

I've used many such harmonizers.

They have to be very sophisticated to not sound like Donald Duck or Darth Robot--they have to retain formant regions, not just shift pitch.

What I thought he was talking about was a more sophisticated device, this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...rkin020199.htm


To fake the calls, you'd have to get samples--many high quality samples--of the passengers, and compile a complete database of everything about them, as well as their speech habits and mannerisms.

Na-Ga (No Go, No Way, Jose)
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:49 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by 8den View Post
Kudos to all the responds and not a single stoner joke.

Boy, I'd love to be there with Harold and Kumar right now, floatin' down a canal.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:05 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
What I thought he was talking about was a more sophisticated device, this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...rkin020199.htm


To fake the calls, you'd have to get samples--many high quality samples--of the passengers, and compile a complete database of everything about them, as well as their speech habits and mannerisms.

Na-Ga (No Go, No Way, Jose)
Exactly. There is no way that such sophistication could have been achieved on a realtime basis under the circumstances.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:10 AM   #73
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I theorize that 19 Leprachauns carried out 9/11. They used their magic to do so.

My theory has about as much evidence as the OP.

Let me know when the author of the OP brings some evidence. Otherwise, someone simply point him to the links where this has been discussed.

TAM
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:12 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Refers to power down.

The link in my blog is dead. Try: google '9/11 wtc power cuts' --> more than 100.000 hits.

www investigate911 com/911facts.htm
(had to enter spaces).

FACT: In the weekends prior to 9/11, the Twin Towers were shut down, evacuated and the power cut completely off. Employees complained such has never happened in their twenty years of working in the Twin Towers. Employees witnessed numerous foreign-looking workers carrying heavy bags of equipment into the Twin Towers;

www willthomasonline net/willthomasonline/The_WTC.html

POWER DOWN
Scott Forbes is taking the day off. The senior database administrator has worked all weekend and into Monday morning to shepherd every Fiduciary Trust's computer system safely back online after the WTC's first “power-down” saw the New York Port Authority cut electricity to the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason given was to install a fiber optic upgrade to increase the Trade Center's computer bandwidth.

But why only to the upper floors? Forbes wonders. And why power down the upper floors when the announced upgrade involves fiber optic cables that conduct light, not electricity?

As one of the Trade Center's first occupants, Fiduciary Trust spent a great deal of time and money powering down their computer systems prior to the power cut, which began early Saturday, September 8th and continued until mid-afternoon the following day. Computer consultants and their own staffs are still at work this morning in the Fiduciary offices on the 90th and 94th through 97th floors in the South Tower.

For nearly 30-hours, the WTC's upper floor elevators and security systems have been rendered inoperative. Though power remained to the lower floors, Forbes has seen many unfamiliar faces roaming freely through the upper corridors. In an email to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died and America's Autopsy Report, Forbes wrote, “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower.”
Except you and scott forbes have the unfortunate problem that my friends were up the twin towers that weekend and that someone has posted pictures of tickets for the observation deck during that time. Scott is a liar.

The power may have been off in his office floor but that is it. The power was not out to the whole tower and certainly not for both.

I suggest you take your user name as avice and research this part better because up until now its been an F-

Your fact is false
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:35 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Because nothing is linked to the Russians. And what is the motive? Why would Russia give the US a motive to invade the Middle East which holds 60% of worlds oil reserves. Russia was very weak anno 2001. Fortunately no longer.
That's easy: oil prices. A conflict with Middle Eastern countries with oil reserves -- Iraq, Saudi (where the highjackers were actually from) -- would drive up the price of oil immensely, which is just about the only thing propping up the Russian economy. Indeed, that is a major reason *why* Russia is "no longer" as weak as in 2001.

Russia had therefore at least as good a motive as the Israelis, and just as many "links," since the entire house of cards in your OP is based on conjecture.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:50 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post

There are only 2 possibilities:

1) Arabs (Arab Conspiracy Theory - ACT)
2) Some kind of inside job (CIA, Mossad)
Do we have to go through this all over again? Everyone knows it was the Canadians.

Sheesh...
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:37 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
It is implausible.

But your direct approach is commendable.

Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character, written by a man who also believed in mediums and spirits. No one actually operates like him.

Instead of links, you need evidence.
Before you can acquire evidence you need first a narative to find evidence for.

Could you please elaborate why this ICTS story is implausible.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:41 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger View Post
That's easy: oil prices. A conflict with Middle Eastern countries with oil reserves -- Iraq, Saudi (where the highjackers were actually from) -- would drive up the price of oil immensely, which is just about the only thing propping up the Russian economy. Indeed, that is a major reason *why* Russia is "no longer" as weak as in 2001.

Russia had therefore at least as good a motive as the Israelis, and just as many "links," since the entire house of cards in your OP is based on conjecture.
But no Russian equivalents for Silverstein, Atzmon, Kroll associates, Urban Moving Systems, Clean Break, PNAC I presume.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:47 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
Except you and scott forbes have the unfortunate problem that my friends were up the twin towers that weekend and that someone has posted pictures of tickets for the observation deck during that time. Scott is a liar.

The power may have been off in his office floor but that is it. The power was not out to the whole tower and certainly not for both.

I suggest you take your user name as avice and research this part better because up until now its been an F-

Your fact is false
Any link to these posted pictures you are referring to?
There are thousands of links that state otherwise.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:04 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
I assume by "they" you mean the US.

So now you are implying that we would not have been content with just removing Saddam from power so, while we're in the neighborhood and all, we would have also attempted unprovoked invasions of two sovereign nations.
Yes. In 2003 we got this ridiculous notion from Washington that 'we're an empire now' and constant threatening of regime change here and there. We had utterances from mainstream characters like Michael Ledeen saying that America needs to throw some crappy little country against the Wall on a regular basis, just to show that we mean business. I never even heard Goebbels say these things. Until this day Washington is not ruling out the 'use of force' against countries like Iran and Syria.

Quote:
Are you insane? For what possible purpose would we do that knowing the worldwide condemnation we would receive?
Lust for conquest, just like the Attila the Hun, the Bolsheviks, Alexander, Caesar, Hitler. Why does the US need to spend more on 'defense' than the rest of the world combined? The US might be tempted to get some return on investment for all this military spending. Did not build the US it's largest embassy in Bagdad? Does it not have 8 or so military bases in Iraq

Quote:
You do realize that the decision to invade Iraq was unpopular with a large part of our citizens from the start and would never have received the required support of Congress had it not been for the (erroneous) WMD intelligence reports, don't you? Unlike Afghanistan, there never was any solid evidence linking Iraq to Al-Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks.
Not at all! There was hardly any resistence against the invasion; maybe some libertarians uttered a protest, but that was the minority.

Quote:
There would have been a nationwide clamor for Bush's immediate resignation had he even dared to ask for approval for either a Syrian or Iranian invasion.
Now maybe, with the economy in tatters and worse to come (Americas automobile industry is on the verge of collapse). But not in 2003. Bush could do anything back then. Even invade France ('chees-eating surrender monkeys'; Oh how right these 'monkeys' were).
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