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Old 10th November 2008, 07:10 AM   #81
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I still don't get the point?

Why the heck blaming Israel/the Jews/etc?
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:17 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by 240-185 View Post
I still don't get the point?

Why the heck blaming Israel/the Jews/etc?
Why blame the muslims.

I do not blame Israel or the Jews. I say that everything points to a small conspiracy of a small number of Israelis and double passport Americans.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:28 AM   #83
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If by "everything" you mean evidence, I say that everything points to "15 Saudis, one Egyptian, one Lebanese, and two from the United Arab Emirates".

With support from their network.

This from Salon.com, but it could have come from anywhere they don't completely make things up.

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/f.../06/iraq_poll/
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:40 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by 8den View Post
Kudos to all the responds and not a single stoner joke.

So all you need to proof your theory true is to dreg a chunk of the Elbe, and the greatest conspiracy is proven true?

Gosh thats awesome.
That Elbe thing is to make the story 'fluent'. I do not know where Atta got killed. I only know that Atta was alive in Hamburg and that he disappeared. I conclude that he most likely got killed, either in Germany or America. I deduce that on the basis of:
- Atta not being able to respond in German to flight school instructor Rudi Deckers; the real Atta is fluent in German.
- the behaviour of Atta in the US being unlike a devout muslim who is about te sacrifice his life for Islam: drinking, boorish behaviour, visiting strip joints.

As an aside Atta's father claims that his son was killed by the Mossad.

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Old 10th November 2008, 07:41 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Why blame the muslims.

I do not blame Israel or the Jews. I say that everything points to a small conspiracy of a small number of Israelis and double passport Americans.
Really?
Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
This in summary is the plot to do list:

- buying WTC (and insure against terrorist acts for nice profit)
- killing Atta and friends in Hamburg and taking passports and dumping bodies
- laying trail at flight schools
- buying large amounts of thermite and detonators and prepare at safe location
- get hold of passenger list and collect sound samples using Amdocs
- largest chunk: drive into WTC complex with vans and mount prepared charges in a weekend
- make 10-20 or so phone calls to relatives using samples for voice morphing + caller-ID spoofing
- push the buttons in WTC-7 after impact of planes

9/11, that's it.

A small group you say? How small? Care to give a figure on the amount of people that would have to be involved in the planning, executing and covering up mass murder as laid out in your summarisation?

10? 20? 100? 200? Any idea?
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:44 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
ly in Bagdad? Does it not have 8 or so military bases in Iraq



Not at all! There was hardly any resistence against the invasion; maybe some libertarians uttered a protest, but that was the minority.

Utterly incorrect the Feb 15th world day of protest was as well attended in many American cities as European ones. New York's protest was as comparable in size as London's with estimates of up to a Million people marching in protest. San Francisco's march was on the 16th and saw nearly a quarter of million people protesting.

Look mate, you've uttered, whats the word, glaring, yes glaring factual errors in your "investigation" perhaps now you'll see what you've got wrong, and go back and revise your theories, enlightened by better research than Bollyn.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:45 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by stateofgrace View Post
Really?



A small group you say? How small? Care to give a figure on the amount of people that would have to be involved in the planning, executing and covering up mass murder as laid out in your summarisation?

10? 20? 100? 200? Any idea?
Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
This is all well and good, but your problem here is you're spouting things that quite simply are not true. You clearly haven't made any attempt to independently verify Bollyn's claims otherwise you would know they are false. In contrast, you presumably have known since childhood that 2X2=4, thus when Hitler affirms this fact to you, it is something you are already aware of, and there is no need to verify Hitler's claim.

Let's focus on a simple basic point which you've claimed repeatedly.

Security at the airports. You seem to be claiming that Huntleigh USA held the security contract at Logan International Airport, Washington Dulles International Airport and Newark International Airport in September 11, 2001. However, as you mention going through check in, I'll have to assume you also mean they had the contract for security for United Airlines and American Airlines at these airports. What you seem to have missed is that Airlines provided their own security.

Now, this claim is rather startling, but sadly it isn't true. If you do a bit of digging, as I did, you'll soon discover that Huntleigh only had one contract of interest - baggage handling for United Airlines. They didn't have any relevant security contracts with any of the airports or either of the airlines. In fact, if you had bothered to pay attention to your own conspiracy theorist friends you'd know that a company called Securacom had the security contract for Washington Dulles International Airport that morning.

Of course, if you'd bothered to do any research you'd know this already, so clearly you haven't. That means you took Bollyn's word for it. So I'll ask again. Why are you so eager to believe whatever that man claims?
Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
No they didn't, but let's see what else you have.




Silverstein didn't buy the WTC, and it was highly profitable, and at nearly full capacity. Silverstein tried to have it insured for a ridiculously low amount and was forced to increase it (though still well under replacement value).




You forgot to mention that the Israeli stand-ins looked exactly like them. In fact, they looked so much like them that when Al-Shehhi's Israeli double travelled to Morocco in early 2001 to visit his family, they were completely fooled, as were the Al Qaeda operators of a safe house in Spain.

Of course then there's Jarrah, who, unlike the other hijackers, did not break off relations at all, and during his training he repeatedly visited his family and his German-Turkish girlfriend. All of them were, of course, totally fooled by the amazing Mossad double.





It's a pity this complex-wide shut down never occurred. But hey, minor detail.




Why?




We've covered the whole airport security thing, but that last point is interesting. The flight manifest records who actually physically enters the aircraft. I must presume, therefore, that you're claiming American Airlines and United Airlines are in on this plot to destroy four of their aircraft and murder a large number of their own employees (not to mention cause devastating damage to the airline industry) for the sake of Israel's peace of mind.




Ah, those pesky phone calls. They really are a thorn in the Conspiracy Theorist's side aren't they? It's a shame someone forgot to disable the pilots' radios because Air Traffic Control heard one of the hijackings take place.





Ah yes, because every single passenger on these aircraft booked their flight so far in advance the ninjas could actually gather enough detailed personal information about them to fool their relatives. Do you have any idea how utterly pathetically stupid the above is?




This should be good.




Well they forgot to buy it, and they badly under insured it, so not off to a good start. 0/2




Except those pesky patsies somehow came back to life and visited their friends and loved ones repeatedly. Should have seen that one coming. 0/3




2000lb of thermite - $4.2 million
10,000m of detonating wire - $45,000
2,000 ignition charges - $23,000
Realising thermite can't be used for building demolition - priceless

0/4




Curse those last minute cancellations and bookings.

0/5




Oops, forgot about the PAPD and their bomb sniffer dogs. 0/6




You think in the planning stage someone would have suggested the phone calls were a bad idea. 0/7




The severe fire damage, structural damage, and FDNY professional assessment of the building's condition was of course sheer coincidence. 0/8



Worse conspiracy ever. Ever.




It is the stupidest thing a homo sapiens sapiens has ever suggested.

Please respond to Gumboot's points--the substantial ones.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:51 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- Atta not being able to respond in German to flight school instructor Rudi Deckers; the real Atta is fluent in German.
- the behaviour of Atta in the US being unlike a devout muslim who is about te sacrifice his life for Islam: drinking, boorish behaviour, visiting strip joints.
Except Dekker didn't say he wasn't able to respond, just that he didn't respond.

Oh, and if you're going to trust in Keller's story then you might want to bear in mind that she says he could speak German:

Quote:
Keller also states that Atta always spoke German with Wolfgang, directly contradicting the testimony of Rudi Dekkers, who told a Congressional Committee that when he addressed him in German, Atta had merely looked at him strangely.
http://www.madcowprod.com/issue40.html
Or are contradictions only important when they relate to the "official story"?
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:56 AM   #89
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A small group you say? How small? Care to give a figure on the amount of people that would have to be involved in the planning, executing and covering up mass murder as laid out in your summarisation?

10? 20? 100? 200? Any idea?
It is said in my blog; on the risk that the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' by quoting from my blog, since you ask for it politely I am giving you an answer anyway:

Who were the plotters?

In this interview of Alex Jones with Andreas von Bulow, the former German Defense Minister said that 9/11 had to be carried out by a very small group of people. Alex asked him 100? 40? He said less than that.

let's start counting:

Highest level:

Mastermind: Zakheim (remote control idea & link between israeli and US-politics)

Israeli government: Olmert & Netanjahu (commanding Mossad).

US government: Cheney; dominates US-government including Bush. Cheney's role is to convert the 9/11 event into making sure the US invades Iraq & Afghanistan.

Operative level:

- Silverstein: buying WTC & hiring Israeli security firm Kroll.
- Jules & Jeremy Kroll: security firm WTC, make sure Israeli demolition team has access to WTC and can work undisturbed.
- Giuliani: WTC7 command & control center; handles aftermath 'on the ground' in NY.

lower echelon:

- Goff & Yoran: link between access to production software on sensitive US institutions like NORAD; they enable Israeli software programmers to manipulates NORAD software and proably 'home run' remote control system.
- Atzmon: asked by Olmert to handle 9/11 at departure airports.
- Hauer: works for Kroll and 'does the media' on 9/11.

These are only 12 people, not counting Mossad agents, who do not need to know the big picture... just change software and plant demolitions charges , kill a few Arabs, take some flying courses and make some fake phone calls on 9/11.

That is, the plot consists of 12 core people plus 20-40 foot soldiers.


P.S. Not that I plan to go anywhere, but just in case the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' I say goodbye to the regular members and say thanks for your time and comments. I have saved them all locally and will give them closer attention later. Just in case.

BTW: this thread will certainly not go down the memory hole but will probably later be part of my blog in case this thread will vanish from this forum.

Last edited by 9/11-investigator; 10th November 2008 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:16 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
It is said in my blog; on the risk that the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' by quoting from my blog, since you ask for it politely I am giving you an answer anyway:

<snip>

P.S. Not that I plan to go anywhere, but just in case the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' I say goodbye to the regular members and say thanks for your time and comments. I have saved them all locally and will give them closer attention later. Just in case.

BTW: this thread will certainly not go down the memory hole but will probably later be part of my blog in case this thread will vanish from this forum.
[Posting as moderator]
9/11-investigator, let's get something straight here.
You have had one post moved to Forum Management so far, and a very minor warning about pimping your blog.
This thread is unlikely to vanish anywhere. We don't censor discussion here unless it becomes a flamepit, or a major breach of the Membership Agreement. If it does, usually only the posts concerned would be removed, not the entire thread.

As for reproducing this thread elsewhere, I'd advise that copyright of this forum belongs to the JREF, and so you shouldn't consider doing that.

I'm only answering you here to prevent further posting of the misunderstanding that you have about the moderation of this forum, and because you seem to think your last post was removed - it wasn't - it was moved to the correct section of the forum for discussing moderation issues; called Forum Management.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...splay.php?f=19

I'd add that nobody should respond to this post in this thread. If anything I mention here warrants further discussion, please take it to the Forum Mgt section.
(If anyone responds to this post in situ, they will receive a rule 11 infraction, and the posts will be moved to FM).
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:18 AM   #91
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So, still no answer to Gumboot's detailed response to your theory?
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:24 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Refers to power down.

The link in my blog is dead. Try: google '9/11 wtc power cuts' --> more than 100.000 hits.

www investigate911 com/911facts.htm
(had to enter spaces).

FACT: In the weekends prior to 9/11, the Twin Towers were shut down, evacuated and the power cut completely off. Employees complained such has never happened in their twenty years of working in the Twin Towers. Employees witnessed numerous foreign-looking workers carrying heavy bags of equipment into the Twin Towers;

www willthomasonline net/willthomasonline/The_WTC.html

POWER DOWN
Scott Forbes is taking the day off. The senior database administrator has worked all weekend and into Monday morning to shepherd every Fiduciary Trust's computer system safely back online after the WTC's first “power-down” saw the New York Port Authority cut electricity to the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason given was to install a fiber optic upgrade to increase the Trade Center's computer bandwidth.

But why only to the upper floors? Forbes wonders. And why power down the upper floors when the announced upgrade involves fiber optic cables that conduct light, not electricity?

As one of the Trade Center's first occupants, Fiduciary Trust spent a great deal of time and money powering down their computer systems prior to the power cut, which began early Saturday, September 8th and continued until mid-afternoon the following day. Computer consultants and their own staffs are still at work this morning in the Fiduciary offices on the 90th and 94th through 97th floors in the South Tower.

For nearly 30-hours, the WTC's upper floor elevators and security systems have been rendered inoperative. Though power remained to the lower floors, Forbes has seen many unfamiliar faces roaming freely through the upper corridors. In an email to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died and America's Autopsy Report, Forbes wrote, “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower.”
the dubiousness of forbe's story aside, even he only claims half of one tower was powered down, not the entire complex as you claim



Quote:
How many ....? Do not know, I was not there; neither were you to disprove it.
well why dont you start by finding out how many would be needed to bring down the towers, from there you can figure out the sizes needed to cut the collumns, how much time this would have taken to move into the complex and how long to set it up

answering these relatively simple questions would go a long way to proving the plausibility of your theory

Quote:
Why this horizontal cut thing? I thought the idea was to cut under an angle to make the building 'walk'/implode?
the cut still has to move horizontally through the steel, something no one has been able to do with thermite (and dont bother linking to the youtube video of the rebar being cut, a point-spray device that can cut 1in rebar would not work for a 3in thick box column)
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:29 AM   #93
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9/11 investigator

Do you have anything besides far stretched speculation and politically based conjecture? You know, something legitimate that you didn't simply make up because you despite people from certain countries or administrations?
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:34 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
But no Russian equivalents for Silverstein, Atzmon, Kroll associates, Urban Moving Systems, Clean Break, PNAC I presume.

(1) You said that the Russians had no motive. They have a very strong one, and much more clearly tied to this action than a vague hope by Israel that this would in some intangible way help the country -- how's that working out for them?

(2) You have not looked for "equivalents" for those entities; it is possible that there are, or that they are simply better at hiding their ties and planting false trails.

(3) Since the above entities have not been shown to have actually done anything by anything resembling evidence, there is no real need to show any "equivalent" entity on the russian side.

After all, if we have a country's intelligence service capable of infiltrating a number of terrorist cells and replacing key members with undetectable doubles and further using unprecedented voice-morphing technologies to fool close friends and family members, then surely generating a few ID badges implicating the above companies/persons would be child's play.


In fact, it gives me even *more* proof for Russian involvement. I have just decided that Russia eliminated Silverstein, et al and replaced them with doubles. In your face, debunkers!
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:44 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
It is said in my blog; on the risk that the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' by quoting from my blog, since you ask for it politely I am giving you an answer anyway:

Who were the plotters?

In this interview of Alex Jones with Andreas von Bulow, the former German Defense Minister said that 9/11 had to be carried out by a very small group of people. Alex asked him 100? 40? He said less than that.

let's start counting:

Highest level:

Mastermind: Zakheim (remote control idea & link between israeli and US-politics)

Israeli government: Olmert & Netanjahu (commanding Mossad).

US government: Cheney; dominates US-government including Bush. Cheney's role is to convert the 9/11 event into making sure the US invades Iraq & Afghanistan.

Operative level:

- Silverstein: buying WTC & hiring Israeli security firm Kroll.
- Jules & Jeremy Kroll: security firm WTC, make sure Israeli demolition team has access to WTC and can work undisturbed.
- Giuliani: WTC7 command & control center; handles aftermath 'on the ground' in NY.

lower echelon:

- Goff & Yoran: link between access to production software on sensitive US institutions like NORAD; they enable Israeli software programmers to manipulates NORAD software and proably 'home run' remote control system.
- Atzmon: asked by Olmert to handle 9/11 at departure airports.
- Hauer: works for Kroll and 'does the media' on 9/11.

These are only 12 people, not counting Mossad agents, who do not need to know the big picture... just change software and plant demolitions charges , kill a few Arabs, take some flying courses and make some fake phone calls on 9/11.

That is, the plot consists of 12 core people plus 20-40 foot soldiers.


P.S. Not that I plan to go anywhere, but just in case the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' I say goodbye to the regular members and say thanks for your time and comments. I have saved them all locally and will give them closer attention later. Just in case.

BTW: this thread will certainly not go down the memory hole but will probably later be part of my blog in case this thread will vanish from this forum.
Oh I see, some 32 to 52 people’ that will work, thanks for clearing that up.

Just so I can be clear you are accusing…………..
Bush,Cheney,Mossad,Silverstein,NORAD,Zakheim,Hauer ,Goff & Yoran and some foot soldiers of being involved in mass murder, right?

How about the FBI, the CIA, Interpol? Come on these guys must be in on it too, right? Oh NIST, you forgot them too.

Oh these guys that didn’t need to know the big picture? Do they still not know the big picture? Or are they just happy to be involved in mass murder? Oh wait I have a idea maybe some other guys that don’t need to know the big picture were hired to bump off the guys that didn’t need to know the big picture and then…….

Goodbye, you offer nothing, other that an over active imagination and need to be taken seriously. This you will not get from me.
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:48 AM   #96
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atta is alleged to have an israeli accent. prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/061804voiceofatta.htm

Excerpts of a transmission from the cockpit of American Airlines Flight 11 believed to have been made by hijacker Mohamed Atta. The tape recordings were played for the first time at the final public hearing of the federal panel reviewing the September 11th attacks. Some people have speculated that the accent is that of an Israeli.

as for a russian link to 911: (probably just a red herring) foreknowledge by putin!!
just type in putin + hussein and youll see the doc
Another explosive document which has already been widely publicized adds validity to the fact that Uday Hussein [Saddam’s younger son] needed to be quickly eliminated near the outset of a war with Iraq because he was aware of a letter which indicated prior knowledge of the 9-11 attacks.


Despite the fact that Delmart "Mike" Vreeland—the intelligence operative tasked to deliver the letter from Uday Hussein to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin—has a controversial past at best, the inclusion of Uday in Cambone’s notes provides additional important evidence.
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:51 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Before you can acquire evidence you need first a narative to find evidence for.
wrong, you collect evidence first and build a narrative around what the evidence indicates

what you suggest is affirming the consequent, a logical fallacy
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:56 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
9/11 investigator

Do you have anything besides far stretched speculation and politically based conjecture? You know, something legitimate that you didn't simply make up because you despite people from certain countries or administrations?
This is a non-starter because I could direct the same argument towards you, that you despise certain 'islamo-fascists'. Let's not go into the psychology game and assuming 'agenda's'. This leads to nowhere.
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:57 AM   #99
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this is damning israeli foreknoeledge (11 months before 911). this event takes place 10-15 miles away from the urban moving company. after i found out it was so close to the warehouse, i started to believe this story is probably more real than fake.
an ex idf soldier actually was the source of this article.

Prior knowledge of 9/11 attacks overheard in Hebrew
muckrakerreport.com/id324.html

What the observer of these happenings heard beneath him after the normal niceties were exchanged between the three men alarmed him. The man who arrived in the Town Car said, “The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September.” One of the men that had been leaning against the retaining wall expressed concerns regarding whether the upcoming presidential election (November 2000) between Bush / Cheney and Gore / Lieberman could impact the plans. The man that arrived in the Town Car pacified the doubts by saying, “Don’t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything.”
In addition to overhearing in Hebrew, the statements, “The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September”, and “Don’t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything”, the source also reports that he overheard one of the three men in the Gomel Chesed Cemetery say, “The Arabs are so stupid. They don’t even imagine that we are using them.” This comment should not be overlooked.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:02 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
wrong, you collect evidence first and build a narrative around what the evidence indicates

what you suggest is affirming the consequent, a logical fallacy
This is a word game.

Proper sequence:

1). fact finding (what you probably call evidence)
2). looking for suspects, motives
3). form one or more narratives
4). direct research in order to test narrative(s)
5). find evidence for narrative
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:03 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Any link to these posted pictures you are referring to?
There are thousands of links that state otherwise.
Those links are all from the same lies told by Scott Forbes.

My friends were up the tower on that weekend during the time it was powered down according to Forbes. The power was not off in that tower above the floors concerned and there is no proof the power was ever off in the other tower. You are telling lies.

the pics are on this site as is information that shows Forbes was wrong.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html

I suggest you read that page and see how it collides with yours and Forbes claims before you continue to post gibberish about this here.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:03 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
This is a non-starter because I could direct the same argument towards you, that you despise certain 'islamo-fascists'. Let's not go into the psychology game and assuming 'agenda's'. This leads to nowhere.
ok, so you have your theory, we now await your evidence.

Seeya, we await your return with proof (and coincidences, suspicious circumstances, opinions, and anonymous sources without confirmation do not count as evidence).

TAM
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:04 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
this is damning israeli foreknoeledge (11 months before 911). this event takes place 10-15 miles away from the urban moving company. after i found out it was so close to the warehouse, i started to believe this story is probably more real than fake.
an ex idf soldier actually was the source of this article.

Prior knowledge of 9/11 attacks overheard in Hebrew
muckrakerreport.com/id324.html

What the observer of these happenings heard beneath him after the normal niceties were exchanged between the three men alarmed him. The man who arrived in the Town Car said, “The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September.” One of the men that had been leaning against the retaining wall expressed concerns regarding whether the upcoming presidential election (November 2000) between Bush / Cheney and Gore / Lieberman could impact the plans. The man that arrived in the Town Car pacified the doubts by saying, “Don’t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything.”
In addition to overhearing in Hebrew, the statements, “The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September”, and “Don’t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything”, the source also reports that he overheard one of the three men in the Gomel Chesed Cemetery say, “The Arabs are so stupid. They don’t even imagine that we are using them.” This comment should not be overlooked.
this is hearsay.com
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:06 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
9-11 investigator-
atta is alleged to have an israeli accent. prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/061804voiceofatta.htm

Excerpts of a transmission from the cockpit of American Airlines Flight 11 believed to have been made by hijacker Mohamed Atta. The tape recordings were played for the first time at the final public hearing of the federal panel reviewing the September 11th attacks. Some people have speculated that the accent is that of an Israeli.
this is speculation.com
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:10 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
9-11 investigator-
atta is alleged to have an israeli accent. prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/061804voiceofatta.htm

Excerpts of a transmission from the cockpit of American Airlines Flight 11 believed to have been made by hijacker Mohamed Atta. The tape recordings were played for the first time at the final public hearing of the federal panel reviewing the September 11th attacks. Some people have speculated that the accent is that of an Israeli.

as for a russian link to 911: (probably just a red herring) foreknowledge by putin!!
just type in putin + hussein and youll see the doc
Another explosive document which has already been widely publicized adds validity to the fact that Uday Hussein [Saddam’s younger son] needed to be quickly eliminated near the outset of a war with Iraq because he was aware of a letter which indicated prior knowledge of the 9-11 attacks.


Despite the fact that Delmart "Mike" Vreeland—the intelligence operative tasked to deliver the letter from Uday Hussein to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin—has a controversial past at best, the inclusion of Uday in Cambone’s notes provides additional important evidence.
Interesting links Senenmut!

Herzlich Willkommen to the forum since nobody else is going to welcome you.

Talking about fake: for years we were fed with the bin Laden story.

In the meantime the FBI has dropped bin Laden as a suspect! No evidence!

Anybody care to comment on that one?

9/11 the crime of the century, patriot act, surveillance state, ten's if not hundreds of thousand people killed in Iraq and no suspect. Can you believe that?

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Old 10th November 2008, 09:11 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
This is a non-starter because I could direct the same argument towards you, that you despise certain 'islamo-fascists'. Let's not go into the psychology game and assuming 'agenda's'. This leads to nowhere.

No, because our findings are based on EVIDENCE (even confessions), not bigotry. And yes this propaganda and conjecture DOES lead to nowhere, but you decided to start it anyways.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:11 AM   #107
T.A.M.
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
This is a word game.

Proper sequence:

1). fact finding (what you probably call evidence)
2). looking for suspects, motives
3). form one or more narratives
4). direct research in order to test narrative(s)
5). find evidence for narrative
1. Gathering of physical evidence, Collection of eye witness accounts
2. Search for suspects based on the above and motives.
3. Collection of testimony from, where possible, suspects.
4. Form a narrative based on WHERE THE EVIDENCE LEADS YOU.
5. Prove the case in a court (of law, or of public opinion, or both).

We are still waiting for your physical evidence and witness testimony to confirm your theory/narrative on this matter.

TAM
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:12 AM   #108
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could this be the "real" reason why we are in iraq.

In 2002 Zelikow made remarks interpreted as alleging that the United States entered the Iraq War to protect Israel, when he said:

“ "Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 -- it's the threat against Israel,"
"And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell."[5]

Edited by Gaspode:  Breach of Rule 4 removed. Text copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

Please don't copy large sections of text from a copyrighted source. As a guideline, quote a paragraph or two and provide a link to the original.

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Old 10th November 2008, 09:14 AM   #109
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Oh the ignorance just goes on and on....
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:16 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Interesting links Senenmut!

Herzlich Willkommen to the forum since nobody else is going to welcome you.

Talking about fake: for years we were fed with the bin Laden story.

In the meantime the FBI has dropped bin Laden as a suspect! No evidence!

Anybody care to comment on that one?

9/11 the crime of the century, patriot act, surveillance state, ten's if not hundreds of thousand people killed in Iraq and no suspect. Can you believe that?
1. How is OBL's involvement fake???? prove it? We have his confession video. We have the fact that he is the leader of Al Qaeda, which planned said attacks. We have confession from KSM. We have OBL present during a meeting with Bin Al shebh, who was a co-conspirator. We have many of the hijackers as Al Qaeda members, or attendees at their training camps.

What do you have. the fact that the FBI website does not list him as "wanted" for the attacks, despite the fact that on his page there is a multi million dollar reward put up by the american pilots association for his capture.

The rest of your post is paranoid nonsense, speculation, insinuation, and as expected, VOID OF FACTS OR EVIDENCE.

TAM
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:18 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
ok, so you have your theory, we now await your evidence.

Seeya, we await your return with proof (and coincidences, suspicious circumstances, opinions, and anonymous sources without confirmation do not count as evidence).

TAM
What would you accept as evidence? I am an amateur detective, just like you, hacking away on his laptop far away in Holland. I have no forensic institute, no police department behind me. So what do you expect?

En what about your evidence for your story?

- explain WTC-7 for me
- explain the Pentagon hole
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:20 AM   #112
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dont know how i double posted....sorry.

anyway, here would be a motive.

Olmert calls Iran 'existential threat'
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:22 AM   #113
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9/11 what would be accepted as evidence is something that IS NOT conjecture. So far all you have presented is conjecture.

You want him to explain WTC7? Have you not even bothered to read the NIST report? This and the Pentagon are covered in literally 100s of threads on this forum. Just because you came into the game late and are bringing up arguments that are from 5 years ago doesn't mean you cannot use the search function and do some real research that doesn't involve only looking at ways Jews could be behind it. If you did, you might be able to offer more than conjecture and speculation.

In the US, we have a thing called due process and don't go on witch hunts.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:25 AM   #114
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"What do you have. the fact that the FBI website does not list him as "wanted" for the attacks, despite the fact that on his page there is a multi million dollar reward put up by the american pilots association for his capture."

Who cares about these american pilots in this context.

The Justice Department is no longer looking for the guy from whom you say confessed 9/11 !!!


How do you explain that?

That's a MEGA-fact!

For years we heard about bin Laden all day. And now he went quietly down the memory hole.

Bin Laden served his purpose as an excuse to invade and to conquest and now he is obsolete.

Der Moor hat seine Pflicht getan, der Moor kann gehen.

Tell me TAM, are you guys going to miss me after you have thrown me down the memory hole and have nobody else than each other to debunk?

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Old 10th November 2008, 09:36 AM   #115
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I almost forgot.

I need Sparky an answer regarding motives.

Why Israel?

Still care for an answer Sparky? Anybody?

This is obviously the core. Very, very sensitive.

Now what is it what we have here...

A precious little document:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:40 AM   #116
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Bin Laden not being on the wanted list is not evidence that the Jews were behind 9/11. And there are countless threads on that subject already and if you bothered to read them, you would know exactly why he is not on a wanted poster and you would know from the FBI themselves as to why.

And yes the US is most certainly still looking for Bin Laden. I would explain it as ignorance on the part of crackpots making that claim. It's not only NOT a mega fact, it's an outright lie.

He's not a memory hole. he's one of the hardest people in the world to find. It took a decade or so to find Eric Rudolph who was a few miles form his home and you somehow think that findings a guy who is protected by religious fanatics who are willing to give their lives for his safety and resides in areas of the world that we can't touch should be easy??? Well then why don't you tell us exactly where Bin Laden is then?

"Bin Laden served his purpose as an excuse to invade and to conquest and now he is obsolete."

This is simply something you made up. You have no factual basis for this, you just made it up. That is anything but a fact, it's an outright LIE.


Do you have anything to offer besides your speculation?
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:45 AM   #117
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Oh no, he's pulled a mega fact. Time to bail out.

Notice he has ignored the power down evidence he was given.

ETA - 10/1 that PNAC document does not say what you think it says.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:45 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post

The Justice Department is no longer looking for the guy from whom you say confessed 9/11 !!!


How do you explain that?

That's a MEGA-fact!
So your evidence that the Justice Department is no longer looking for him is an FBI most wanted poster? That is interesting.

I was surprised to see that you seem to rely very heavily on holocaust denier Chris Bollyn. I was under the impression that holcaust denial was illegal in the Netherlands. I see that is not true. That is curious given that Amsterdam was the home of Anne Frank one of the most renowned and most discussed victims of the Holocaust.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:45 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
What would you accept as evidence? I am an amateur detective, just like you, hacking away on his laptop far away in Holland. I have no forensic institute, no police department behind me. So what do you expect?
If you're interested in finding out the truth about 9/11 then I would expect you to respond to substantive criticism of the claims posted on your blog. Instead, you ignore it. Don't be surprised if we draw certain conclusions from that.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:47 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
What would you accept as evidence? I am an amateur detective, just like you, hacking away on his laptop far away in Holland. I have no forensic institute, no police department behind me. So what do you expect?
Something. Anything.

Preferably something that makes sense.

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
En what about your evidence for your story?

- explain WTC-7 for me
- explain the Pentagon hole
See the thing is, we have the evidence for our side. And it makes far more sense then what you are saying.

What exactly is wrong with WTC 7?
What exactly is wrong with the Pentagon?

Why do you mention WTC 7, but not WTC 3, or St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, or the North Bridge?
What makes WTC 7 different to those buildings?
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