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Old 10th November 2008, 04:36 PM   #201
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
now any researcher looking into the israeli angle will also see that alight 11 came from logan airport.
now from the previous article i posted-
"ICTS , run by 'former(Israeli)military
commanding officers and veterans of government intelligence and
security agencies'"

then we have one danny lewin (billionaire/ founder of akamai) on that flight.
from wiki-
"Lewin was born in Denver, Colorado and raised in Jerusalem, where he served for four years in the Israel Defence Forces. He was an officer in Sayeret Matkal, an elite and secretive intelligence unit."

the first faa memo states that he was shot that day. the question then is, how the hell did an elite commando get shot or killed by these terrorists with boxcutters!! how did a gun get past security (israeli).

also, as i have stated before, atta's voice is alledeged to have an israeli accent????
The poster has "issues" with Jews, methinks?.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:37 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Maybe just wasted 1 hour of my life due to false information from you. There is nothing to be found about Bingham and 'flight 95'. I do find that Bingham nearly missed his flight93. Now get your facts straight will ye.
Some facts about Bingham:
Mark Bingham, 31, was also supposed to have flown to San Francisco last Monday. But he hadn't recovered sufficiently from the 30th birthday celebration of his roommate in Manhattan, so he decided to wait until Tuesday morning.

He overslept a 6 a.m. alarm and just made his flight when his friend Matt Hall of Denville, N.J., rushed through traffic to get him there.

Hall remembered the 6-foot-5 Bingham running to the terminal. The former rugby star at the University of California at Berkeley was lugging his old team canvas bag, emblazoned with his name and number. Flying on a companion pass from his aunt, a flight attendant, Bingham was the last to board.

Driving to work, Hall got a call from Bingham to say he had made the flight and was sitting in seat 4D in first class.

"Hey, it's me, I'm just calling to say hi, thanks for driving to get me there," Bingham told his friend, adding that he was enjoying a glass of orange juice. "OK, take care, I'll talk to you soon," he said.
So, learning at the last minute that Bingham was on the flight, the Evil Jews then instantly managed to put together fake phone calls that fooled his mother and his boyfriend.

---

Incidentally, on the surname thing, here's Hall reminiscing about him:
The two met on America Online in June, and after several dates they spent a week together in early September at the Southern Decadence festival in New Orleans. A shy guy who says he "never made the first move," Hall was amazed with the confidence Mark exuded. "He took me by the hand in front of the Phoenix bar and said, 'Let's go meet people,' " Hall says. "Then he started going up to people and saying, 'Hi, I'm Mark Bingham from California. This is Matt from New Jersey.' "
That's also an odd situation in which to use one's surname.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:38 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
That's fine. Google is more than sufficient.

I'll provide you some evidence when you indicate you're aware of the basics - for example once you stop spouting "security at X airport" and recognise that airlines provided their own security at airports. Security for the airport itself is provided by the airport, and they give certificates for various screening and baggage companies to operate in their airport. But it is individual airlines that choose which companies they will use.
You're not paying attention are you? Senenmut just wrote post 185, stating that ICTS did passenger screening.


Quote:
When you're ready to accept that Christopher Bollyn is not telling the truth about passenger screening we can then progress to actually looking at some facts. The first step in uncovering the truth is admitting when you're wrong.
Edited by Tricky:  personal attack edited.

Quote:
You shouldn't feel any shame in doing so
- you've been suckered in by Bollyn who is a liar and a deceiver, and not to be trusted. Realising this will make you stronger, and bring you closer to getting a grasp of what actually happened that day.
Edited by Tricky:  Attack the argument and not the arguer.

Quote:
I have faith in you. You can do it.
Oh my, another Obama voter.

Last edited by Tricky; 10th November 2008 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:44 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
You're not paying attention are you? Senenmut just wrote post 185, stating that ICTS did passenger screening.

Huntleigh USA did not handle checkpoint security for flight 11.

Do you know which company did?

(Hint, read the 9/11 Commission Report.)
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:48 PM   #205
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9/11-investigator, why did you choose this nickname which is, apparently, a lie?

You're just taking some weak points of the "official" (aka "the real") version, ou just spouting lies in order to totally refute the "official" version and decrete that 9/11 was an inside job.

By the way, we don't blame *all* muslims. We overall blame that *some angry guys* (19 to be precise) killed 3,000 people "in the name of Islam", which is rather a pretext to kill *innocent* people. Blaming Israel/the jews/the Zionists, that are people who don't tend to have a "suicidal" mentality, with poor evidences is just disgusting. I'm not a jew, but every time I read a conspiracy theory which contains the words "zionists", "Mossad", "Israel", my anger rises.

So, why would you manage to do in a thread something that every troofer failed to do for 7 years? What would you become if it was proven that 9/11 was effectively an "inside job"?
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:51 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
You are very relaxed about these FEMA camps are you?

Would you like to see truthers stored away in these camps?

You think that the Sovjet-Union cannot happen to you, do you? Well it can. I see 9/11 as an attempt to create such a state from within and a global empire abroad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeqjykY5wPk
Well it must not have worked very well, it has been over 7 years, still no troofer concentration camps, and the incumbent party is leaving office in just over 2 months. What kind of police state are we running here?
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:54 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by 240-185 View Post
9/11-investigator, why did you choose this nickname which is, apparently, a lie?

You're just taking some weak points of the "official" (aka "the real") version, ou just spouting lies in order to totally refute the "official" version and decrete that 9/11 was an inside job.

By the way, we don't blame *all* muslims. We overall blame that *some angry guys* (19 to be precise) killed 3,000 people "in the name of Islam", which is rather a pretext to kill *innocent* people. Blaming Israel/the jews/the Zionists, that are people who don't tend to have a "suicidal" mentality, with poor evidences is just disgusting.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/atta.html

Father Mohamed Atta asked where his son is: "Ask the Mossad".


Quote:
I'm not a jew, but every time I read a conspiracy theory which contains the words "zionists", "Mossad", "Israel", my anger rises.
Sure. Time to convert. Do Kabbala course with Madonna.

Last edited by 9/11-investigator; 10th November 2008 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:56 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
Well it must not have worked very well, it has been over 7 years, still no troofer concentration camps, and the incumbent party is leaving office in just over 2 months. What kind of police state are we running here?
OH MAN! I just saw an image in Grand Theft Auto!!!!!
Obama IS SO GOING TO round up the truthers and imprison them in the FEMA camps!!!
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Old 10th November 2008, 04:58 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/atta.html

Father Mohamed Atta asked where his son is: "Ask the Mossad".
Gee, the mass murderer's father claims his son was framed by the Jews?

So your sources are an alcoholic Holocaust Denier, Atta's Father, and DRG?

With friends like that, you don't need enemies!
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:01 PM   #210
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Quote:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/atta.html
Father Mohamed Atta asked where his son is: "Ask the Mossad".
What a non-argument. Atta's father's words must be trusted, but not FBI?

Quote:
Sure. Time to convert. Do Kabbala course with Madonna.
Nothing to say here, I'm speechless. Defending the jews means for you, "being a jew"?
GTFO.
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Last edited by 240-185; 10th November 2008 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:03 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/atta.html

Father Mohamed Atta asked where his son is: "Ask the Mossad".



Did you somehow miss the interview with Father Atta, the part where he said he refused to answer anymore questions unless the interviewers were to pay him $10,000, in which the money would go to the Palestine fund? Of course you did. After all you missed all the facts regarding 9/11 and even live footage of planes flying into buildings.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:03 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Gee, the mass murderer's father claims his son was framed by the Jews?

So your sources are an alcoholic Holocaust Denier, Atta's Father, and DRG?

With friends like that, you don't need enemies!
And his dig about Obama.....
Shocking that a jew hater would not like blacks either!.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:24 PM   #213
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First, 9/11 Investigator: Let me say "Good on you!" for actually having the guts to post a narrative of what you think happened that day. Most truthers refuse to do so. They know if they do, they will have to explain it, and answer questions raises and explain how evidence fits into it. This seldom works out so they don't make claims. They just sit on the fringes sulking and occasionally trying to antagonize people by playing stupid games with trivialities. Or else they argue from almost incomprehensible levels of ignorance (of physics, reality, the evidence, etc).

So good job for actually posting a story. I only hope that you are willing to stick it out to the end, and answer the challenges put to you, and honestly assess your hypothesis in light of the evidence that is known (which may agree or disagree at certain points), the evidence it requires (especially that which is glaringly absent), and the requirements it would need to actually be workable.



Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- 9/11 = remote control + controlled demolition.

<snip>

- Planes get air born. After some time the pilot observes that his entire control panel is disabled and that the airplane has changed course; he tries frantically to regain control of his aircraft, does not succeed. Obviously he does NOT inform his passengers in order not to cause panic. The passengers suspect nothing and hence make NO phone calls to relatives (which is impossible given altitude and speed anyway with cell phones).

Ignoring everything else for the moment, I'd like you to explain why you think the above scenario is possible?

That is, the ability to wire remote controls to Boeing 767 (and 757 if your theory extends to Shanksville and the Pentagon) aircraft that allow on individual (or organization) to take complete control of the aircraft.

Furthermore, how were these remote controls installed in such a way that they could assume full control of the aircraft and yet prevent the pilots from seeing/detecting them beforehand, and find/overriding them after.
(Actually, this has been answered before on this forum. Use the search feature. R. Mackey did a good job of explaining why a remote control system with the capabilities necessitated by your hypothesis is impossible on those aircraft.)


In addition, I would like to know how those in control were able to fly the planes remotely with the precision needed to hit the towers (and the Pentagon and Shanksville, if your theory extends that far). Did they have line-of-sight? Did they have information from the instruments? Did they have a camera in/on the aircraft to allow them to see where it was and what it was doing? Was everything pre-programmed and run off of GPS? Or was there some other method?

Add to that the fact that you claim explosives were pre-wired in the towers. How did the perpetrators know that the aircraft would not damage the explosives or their detonation devices? Did they have impact proof explosives, or did they guide the plane into the towers with unparalleled accuracy (just the right attitude, bank, and direction) to hit a pre-set dead zone) and avoid damage to the explosives that way?


These are questions directly relevant to your hypothesis. Indeed, they follow from it. If you cannot explain them, then your hypothesis is in error, and needs revision.

I look forward to your answers.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:33 PM   #214
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[quote][quote=Heiwa;4191309]
Originally Posted by Pi_314 View Post
You're doing a great job there 911 Invstigator. Keep up the good work !

Quote:

I agree. I made a post # 24 about it that ended up at http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=128518 .
No he's not. This is just another run through the same old arguments that have been debunked countless times.
If 9/11 investigator had double-checked his sources and made any effort to confirm each claim with solid evidence, he would have discovered this fact.

Take the effort, 9investigator, and read through this forum. You will discover many times that your arguments are not new and have been debunked.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:34 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/atta.html

Father Mohamed Atta asked where his son is: "Ask the Mossad".
And how would he know?

---

In your conspiracy theory, of course, Atta's father managed to overlook the fact that for the last two years of his alleged "life", his alleged "son" was in fact being impersonated by a Jewish agent. His accusations, and indeed yours, would look so much more convincing if he'd noticed this and mentioned it to someone.

Last edited by Dr Adequate; 10th November 2008 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 05:36 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/atta.html

Father Mohamed Atta asked where his son is: "Ask the Mossad".
ok, i just asked the mossad, they said his son crashed a plane at high speed into the north tower of the world trade center

case closed.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:07 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
You're not paying attention are you? Senenmut just wrote post 185, stating that ICTS did passenger screening.
Yes I read that post. The information is incorrect. Can I assume you do not even understand how airport security works?

The claim, made by the people you're so eager to quote, is that Huntleigh USA managed security at Boston Logan International Airport and Newark International Airport. This is false, and I've already given you a clue as to why.

You seem incapable of joining the dots, so let me spell it out for you.

Logan International Airport is owned by Massport (Massachusetts Port Authority) and Massport manages security at the airport.

Newark International Airport is owned by the PANYNJ (Port Authority of New York and New Jersey) and security at the airport is managed by the PANYNJ.

See how it works? Owners manage security at their airports. The companies you're referring to are contractors to individual airlines and they service only those airlines that have contracted them at the discretion of the owner of the airport.

I've already pointed you to a CNN article in which it was announced that Massport had evicted a passenger screening company from their airports for security breaches.

Starting to get the picture now? Your sources are making false claims about a subject they don't know anything about. Don't be stupid enough to make the same mistake. Learn how security at airports actually functions.


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Edited by Tricky:  personal attack edited.


Edited by Tricky:  Attack the argument and not the arguer.


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Old 10th November 2008, 06:14 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
the first faa memo states that he was shot that day.
Whereas all the evidence suggests that he was stabbed.

You, I take it, would prefer to rely on a memo released at 5:31 p.m. on 9/11, and written by someone who wasn't even completely sure that flight 93 was a 757.

Quote:
the question then is, how the hell did an elite commando ...
No, you made that up.

We do not, of course know his precise role in Israeli intelligence, but given the fact that he was a mathematician with a PhD in computer science, you can pretty much guess that they didn't recruit him to turn him into a trained killer.

Quote:
get shot or killed by these terrorists with boxcutters!!
No passenger says they were armed exclusively with boxcutters. In fact, only one passenger (Barbara Olsen) refers to box cutters at all, when, according to her husband "the only weapons she mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters".

Quote:
how did a gun get past security
Or, alternatively, how did an error get into a memo compiled mere hours after the event by someone who still hadn't acertained some of the most basic facts about 9/11?

That's much less of a puzzle.

Quote:
also, as i have stated before, atta's voice is alledeged to have an israeli accent????
By whom?

Last edited by Dr Adequate; 10th November 2008 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:28 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by X View Post
Ignoring everything else for the moment, I'd like you to explain why you think the above scenario is possible?

That is, the ability to wire remote controls to Boeing 767 (and 757 if your theory extends to Shanksville and the Pentagon) aircraft that allow on individual (or organization) to take complete control of the aircraft.

Furthermore, how were these remote controls installed in such a way that they could assume full control of the aircraft and yet prevent the pilots from seeing/detecting them beforehand, and find/overriding them after.
(Actually, this has been answered before on this forum. Use the search feature. R. Mackey did a good job of explaining why a remote control system with the capabilities necessitated by your hypothesis is impossible on those aircraft.)


In addition, I would like to know how those in control were able to fly the planes remotely with the precision needed to hit the towers (and the Pentagon and Shanksville, if your theory extends that far). Did they have line-of-sight? Did they have information from the instruments? Did they have a camera in/on the aircraft to allow them to see where it was and what it was doing? Was everything pre-programmed and run off of GPS? Or was there some other method?

Add to that the fact that you claim explosives were pre-wired in the towers. How did the perpetrators know that the aircraft would not damage the explosives or their detonation devices? Did they have impact proof explosives, or did they guide the plane into the towers with unparalleled accuracy (just the right attitude, bank, and direction) to hit a pre-set dead zone) and avoid damage to the explosives that way?


These are questions directly relevant to your hypothesis. Indeed, they follow from it. If you cannot explain them, then your hypothesis is in error, and needs revision.

I look forward to your answers.
X, thanks for the words of moral encouragement, much appreciated.

Read the paragraph "Dov Zakheim, remote control and the Pentagon" to see what I have on the subject.

The entire story is based on frustration with the official account, I just wanted to see how far I could get with an alternative hypothesis.

Remote control was 'in the air' so to speak in 2001.

Here is a US-patent, filed one month after 9/11:

US-patent 6,641,087

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...y=PN%2F6641087

Summary: Anti-hijacking system operable in emergencies to deactivate on-board flight controls and remotely pilot aircraft utilizing autopilot.

This document...

http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...msMonaghan.pdf

... is a peer-reviewed study about the possibility of 757/767 having had remote controlled systems anno 9/11.

Conclusion: Increasing the plausibility of precision automated control of the two aircraft striking the WTC, is
the fact that each aircraft struck precisely the only sections within each WTC tower reportedly
upgraded with thermal protection materials, suggesting a clandestine relationship between the
visually spectacular aircraft attacks upon the WTC and activity pre-September 11, 2001 within
each WTC aircraft impact region, initiating complete structural failure within these regions not
generated by the aircraft attacks themselves
.

One smoking gun obviously is Dov Zakheim. He is co-author of the central PNAC-document, with the new Pearl Harbor reference. Document completed 1 year before 9/11. At the time Zakheim had been CEO of SPC for 4 years, a company that produced amongst others specialized remote control systems of airplanes (up to 8 at a time!). It is very likely that Zakheim must have been aware which type of aircraft had remote control capability. In april 2001 we witnessed the first unmanned flight from Edwards Airbase to Australia.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/uav-01d.html

"It was in the air" so to speak.

The suspicion is of course that Dov Zakheim came to an luminous idea when this new Pearl Harbor idea was discussed during these meetings with his mainly zionist PNAC-pals. The idea was to find an excuse to invade the ME. This would be an implementation of the ideas as formulated in the Clean Break document (Israel benefactor), PNAC (US-empire and global supremacy) and the oil-motive; Cheney was at the time well aware of the impending peak-oil crisis, of which we have witnessed the first dark clouds earlier this summer.

Last edited by 9/11-investigator; 10th November 2008 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:31 PM   #220
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Please stop using the "new Pearl Harbor" phrasing until you respond to the posts by Dr Adequate and me that demonstrate why you are wrong in using it.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:31 PM   #221
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Quote:
Here is a US-patent, filed one month after 9/11:

US-patent 6,641,087

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...y=PN%2F6641087

Summary: Anti-hijacking system operable in emergencies to deactivate on-board flight controls and remotely pilot aircraft utilizing autopilot.
hmm, i wonder what could have prompted the filing of that patent only 1 month after 9/11....
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:33 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/atta.html

Father Mohamed Atta asked where his son is: "Ask the Mossad".

Father Mohamed Atta? I presume you mean Mohammed Atta's father Mohamed al-Amir Atta.

I would strongly recommend staying away from him as a viable source of information. He has given numerous interviews, and in each one the "fate" of his son changes:

19th September 2001 - New York Times
He claims his son went to the USA for education.
He claims his son had visited him in late 2000.
He claims his son is still alive.

24th September 2001 - Newsweek
He claims Mossad kidnapped his son and stole his identity.
He claims his son called him the day after the attacks.
He claims he last saw his son in late 1999.
He claims his son has never been to the USA.

2nd September 2002 - Bild am Sonntag Newspaper
He claims his son is still alive and hiding from US agents.
He claims 9/11 was the work of American Christians (not Mossad).

11th September 2004 - Associated Press
Blames 9/11 on Mossad and refuses to say whether he thinks his son is alive.

October 2004 - Egypt Today
He refuses to make any direct remarks about his son, but instead lists off a number of woefully false conspiracy theory claims about 9/11.

20th July 2005 - CNN
He claims that the 9/11 and London Bombing attacks are only the beginning of a 50 year religious war which will involve many more fighters like his son.
He demands $5,000 from CNN for another interview and says he will use that money to fund another attack like the July bombing.
(CNN declined and left).

Quite aside from his increasing radicalism and obvious anti-western attitude, his story changes dramatically from interview to interview. In the most recent, he claims his son is a fighter in a 50 year religious war, seemingly confirming that his son did commit 9/11. All talk of Mossad and inside jobs has vanished.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:37 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
hmm, i wonder what could have prompted the filing of that patent only 1 month after 9/11....
Are you really suggesting that you think it is possible that in one month time a remote control system was designed, tested and filed for patent?

It obviously was already around (and tested I might add malignantly), see Global Hawk.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:42 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Are you really suggesting that you think it is possible that in one month time a remote control system was designed, tested and filed for patent?

It obviously was already around (and tested I might add malignantly), see Global Hawk.
a global hawk is a far cry from a commercial airliner

and things dont have to be tested to get a patent, they barely have to be designed, filing for a patent is almost a joke
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:52 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
You're not paying attention are you? Senenmut just wrote post 185, stating that ICTS did passenger screening.
Could I point out that in your version of the Truth, the "hijackers" didn't even board the planes, much less smuggle anything on board.

The only thing your Truth has in common with Senenmut's Truth is that you both want to blame the Jews.
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Old 10th November 2008, 06:53 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Are you really suggesting that you think it is possible that in one month time a remote control system was designed, tested and filed for patent?

It obviously was already around (and tested I might add malignantly), see Global Hawk.
Designing a Global Hawk is nothing like retrofitting a 767 with fly-by-wire technology. Provide proof that it was tested or even designed beyond what the patent describes.

"Tested malignantly"? You're an idiot.

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Old 10th November 2008, 06:56 PM   #227
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why do truthers think there are only two possible culprits in 9-11?

the CIA..and the Jews.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:05 PM   #228
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So has mr investigator gone through every conspiracy cliche in this conspiracy burrito yet? The old conspiracy 2 step shuffle? Still hasn't bothered to use search yet I assume?

You see mr investigator, the way patents work is FIRST you get a patent, and THEN you build the product once you know it is safel protected (Except from China).
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:05 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Are you really suggesting that you think it is possible that in one month time a remote control system was designed, tested and filed for patent?
If you read the application, you will realize that they have neither designed, built, nor tested any such thing.

What they are doing is trying to patent the general idea of a remote-controlled anti-hijacking system. And yes, that could be done in a month, because the only skill required is a sufficiently vague use of language.

I mean, watch this:
The apparatus 200 includes a processor 202, such as a microprocessor, personal computer, workstation, or other processing machine, coupled to a storage 204. In the present example, the storage 204 includes a fast-access storage 206, as well as nonvolatile storage 208. The fast-access storage 206 may comprise random access memory ("RAM"), and may be used to store the programming instructions executed by the processor 202. The nonvolatile storage 208 may comprise, for example, battery backup RAM, EEPROM, one or more magnetic data storage disks such as a "hard drive," a tape drive, or any other suitable storage device. The apparatus 200 also includes an input/output 210, such as a line, bus, cable, electromagnetic link, or other means for the processor 202 to exchange data with other hardware external to the apparatus 200.

Despite the specific foregoing description, ordinarily skilled artisans (having the benefit of this disclosure) will recognize that the apparatus discussed above may be implemented in a machine of different construction, without departing from the scope of the invention. As a specific example, one of the components 206, 208 may be eliminated; furthermore, the storage 204, 206, and/or 208 may be provided on-board the processor 202, or even provided externally to the apparatus 200.
In English, this translates as:
If we built this thing, which we're not going to, we would definitely use some sort of computer. Anyone who actually builds one of these things and uses a computer in any way is stealing our idea and must pay us royalties! We thought of it first!
---

Do you have any evidence that anyone has ever actually designed, built, and tested one of these things?

---

On the "to do list" in your OP you missed the bit where they had to install and test this stuff on four planes without anyone noticing.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:13 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
We do not, of course know his precise role in Israeli intelligence, but given the fact that he was a mathematician with a PhD in computer science, you can pretty much guess that they didn't recruit him to turn him into a trained killer.
For what it's worth, I know a Ph.D. EE who was ex-Delta Force (and is Jewish to boot). I believe the progression from special forces sigint/crypto to computer science is not uncommon.

Having said that, Dr. Lewin's presence on the aircraft would seem to be an example of Logan's Law. In other words, the mysterious Jewish They have put fake Arabs on board the aircraft already. Why on earth would they put yet another operative on board, such an obvious one? Why would he be there at all? If he was, why not have a fake identity?

The obvious answer is, unless They are complete morons, neither he nor the Mossad had anything to do with it. The conspiracist position assumes that he is, in fact, Mossad, that he was involved, presumably in some way other than being killed, and that we're all too stupid to "put the dots together" even though They are literally shoving them in our face. Not bloody likely.

Regarding remote control of aircraft, to the OP whom I will shortly be Ignoring for your shocking anti-semitism and lack of sense, see this thread. I am an expert in autonomous flight control. It is not possible to retrofit Global Hawk controls for a 757 or 767 for a wide variety of reasons. It is also not possible to retrofit any 757/767 control that the pilot, co-pilot, and maintainers would not detect before taking off.

The whole theory, as is virtually everything else ever to come from Christopher Bollyn, is preposterously stupid. I pity those who are so feebleminded or so blinded by racial hatred that they can't figure this out for themselves.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:15 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I copied that wisdom from Bollyn.
See my sig.
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Old 10th November 2008, 07:27 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
For what it's worth, I know a Ph.D. EE who was ex-Delta Force (and is Jewish to boot). I believe the progression from special forces sigint/crypto to computer science is not uncommon.
My point is not that he wasn't in Sayeret Matkal (he was) but that given that he was highly qualified in maths and computer science his role in S.M. probably involved more sitting at a desk looking at a computer screen than fighting barehanded against five guys armed with knives and winning, a feat for which four years of cryptology (for example) is not the ideal preparation.
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:00 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
Whereas all the evidence suggests that he was stabbed.

You, I take it, would prefer to rely on a memo released at 5:31 p.m. on 9/11, and written by someone who wasn't even completely sure that flight 93 was a 757.

No, you made that up.

We do not, of course know his precise role in Israeli intelligence, but given the fact that he was a mathematician with a PhD in computer science, you can pretty much guess that they didn't recruit him to turn him into a trained killer.

No passenger says they were armed exclusively with boxcutters. In fact, only one passenger (Barbara Olsen) refers to box cutters at all, when, according to her husband "the only weapons she mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters".

Or, alternatively, how did an error get into a memo compiled mere hours after the event by someone who still hadn't acertained some of the most basic facts about 9/11?

That's much less of a puzzle.

By whom?
how do you think that faa memo got out?
from link-
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26676

"Danny was an officer in a secret unit of the Israeli army called 'sayeret matkal,'" said Yehuda Schwartzberg, a childhood friend from Jerusalem. "My guess is that he did something in some way to stand up against the hijackers, and was executed because of it."
The FAA memo's summary of the Flight 11 shooting incident, real or not, is the most detailed and specific -- not to mention shocking -- of the four hijacking summaries. It says Lewin, sitting in seat 9B, was "shot by passenger Satam al-Suqami," sitting behind him in seat 10B. (Both names match those on the manifest released by the airline.)

"One bullet was reported to have been fired," the memo states.
The 31-year-old Lewin, an Israeli citizen since a teen, was a captain in the Israel Defense Force and had extensive anti-terrorism training.
"Anyone who knows Danny knows that it was not his nature to go down without a fight," Schwartzberg said. "Maybe this (memo) shows that he died a hero."
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:15 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Having said that, Dr. Lewin's presence on the aircraft would seem to be an example of Logan's Law.
Daniel Lewin retired from Sayeret Matkal in 1996. But one doesn't have to think to hard to figure out why the co-founder of Akamai which has offices in Boston and Los Angeles was on a flight from Boston to Los Angeles. Any idiot truther that trys to claim Daniel Lewin on flight 11 has anything to do with Mossad or Israel is an anti-semitic waste of oxygen.

Last edited by ~enigma~; 10th November 2008 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 08:41 PM   #235
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I just wasted the last thirty minutes reading this thread.

Call me idealistic, but I was so hoping he'd actually address Gumboots, Hokulele's, and other's points... but nada.

Someone let me know if he ever answers any of the questions put to him, please; so far I have yet to see a legitimate response to the (mostly) polite questions put to him by the skeptics here.
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Old 10th November 2008, 09:36 PM   #236
Dr Adequate
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
how do you think that faa memo got out?
from link-
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26676

"Danny was an officer in a secret unit of the Israeli army called 'sayeret matkal,'" said Yehuda Schwartzberg, a childhood friend from Jerusalem. "My guess is that he did something in some way to stand up against the hijackers, and was executed because of it."
The FAA memo's summary of the Flight 11 shooting incident, real or not, is the most detailed and specific -- not to mention shocking -- of the four hijacking summaries. It says Lewin, sitting in seat 9B, was "shot by passenger Satam al-Suqami," sitting behind him in seat 10B. (Both names match those on the manifest released by the airline.)

"One bullet was reported to have been fired," the memo states.
The 31-year-old Lewin, an Israeli citizen since a teen, was a captain in the Israel Defense Force and had extensive anti-terrorism training.
"Anyone who knows Danny knows that it was not his nature to go down without a fight," Schwartzberg said. "Maybe this (memo) shows that he died a hero."
Would you like to respond to any of the points I made, or would you rather copy and paste without a single thought passing through your head?

Here's a quick rundown of why you're wrong.

* The claims of a shot are contradicted by all the other evidence.

* The claims of a shot are not based on any evidence, since both Madeline Sweeney and Betty Ong speak of people being stabbed, but don't mention anyone getting shot, and they were the only people in the passengers or crew who managed to phone out. How else do we know what happened on flight 11? Did the author of the FAA memo have psychic powers?

* The memo was hastily written a bare few hours after the hijackings.

* The situation at that point was so confused that the author wasn't sure what sort of plane flight 93 was.

* The FAA, based on the evidence, ultimately determined that he was stabbed.

* One mistake in one memo does not magically make reality go away.

Last edited by Dr Adequate; 10th November 2008 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 10th November 2008, 10:12 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Are you really suggesting that you think it is possible that in one month time a remote control system was designed, tested and filed for patent?

It obviously was already around (and tested I might add malignantly), see Global Hawk.
Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
and things dont have to be tested to get a patent, they barely have to be designed, filing for a patent is almost a joke


Speaking as someone who works in the Patent field, I would dispute the word "joke", but not too strongly.

I did a search for patents on remote-controlled planes and other anti-terrorist patent applications filed in the year after 9/11, and there were quite a few. You see this with lots of big public events - people start to think, "How could we have prevented that/made it better/made money off it?", and they start filing patent applications. Most of them never go anywhere.
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Old 10th November 2008, 10:18 PM   #238
Jonnyclueless
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
For what it's worth, I know a Ph.D. EE who was ex-Delta Force (and is Jewish to boot). I believe the progression from special forces sigint/crypto to computer science is not uncommon.

Having said that, Dr. Lewin's presence on the aircraft would seem to be an example of Logan's Law. In other words, the mysterious Jewish They have put fake Arabs on board the aircraft already. Why on earth would they put yet another operative on board, such an obvious one? Why would he be there at all? If he was, why not have a fake identity?

The obvious answer is, unless They are complete morons, neither he nor the Mossad had anything to do with it. The conspiracist position assumes that he is, in fact, Mossad, that he was involved, presumably in some way other than being killed, and that we're all too stupid to "put the dots together" even though They are literally shoving them in our face. Not bloody likely.

Regarding remote control of aircraft, to the OP whom I will shortly be Ignoring for your shocking anti-semitism and lack of sense, see this thread. I am an expert in autonomous flight control. It is not possible to retrofit Global Hawk controls for a 757 or 767 for a wide variety of reasons. It is also not possible to retrofit any 757/767 control that the pilot, co-pilot, and maintainers would not detect before taking off.

The whole theory, as is virtually everything else ever to come from Christopher Bollyn, is preposterously stupid. I pity those who are so feebleminded or so blinded by racial hatred that they can't figure this out for themselves.
You mean you can't get the 767 fly by wire update kit? That must be a real bummer for the conspiracy theorists.
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Old 11th November 2008, 12:08 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
You're being boorish again, gunboot. And we do not like that. Clean your act up otherwise you'll never get a girlfriend.

And you are completely missing the point: it is not about finding people who missed a flight and got flight93 as a second choice, it is about finding people who missed a flight and got flight93 as a second choice and made a phone call.

Try to let that sink in.
I don't see the problem.

Unless you are somehow trying to argue that the person in question wasn't there?
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Old 11th November 2008, 12:13 AM   #240
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I'm gonna go ahead and jump in here with my two bits.

Now, I don't know that much about the GlobalHawk remote operating system, but I assume it uses RF for its transmission of command orders and telemetry data. I also know from 6 years as an electronic warfare technician that RF has a limited range - this will be affected by frequency and atmosphere to some extent - but it is subject to degradation at any sort of distance. Therefore, I'm going to assume that this a satellite-downlinked control scheme. (just Wiki-ed it. This is correct.)

Now - where were these planes remote-controlled from? They would have had to have access to the encrypted satellite, and have a pretty sizeable operation complete with four different operator stations for each one of the planes.

If these planes were remote-controlled - where did they do it from? It's easy to just dismiss it away as being NORAD or Ft. Huachuca or some other controlled access place, but there are other employees in those SCIFs. People with a conscience, who are sworn to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. You'd better believe if I saw this happening, I would have blown the lid off of it.

So here's the problem I see with your whole argument, 9-11Investigator. This ain't a Journey album and you can't have it "Any Way You Want It." Terrorists flew the planes at the direction of the Mossad. Nobody flew the planes, they were remotely piloted into the towers. No planes hit the towers and Pentagon. At some point, you have to pick a ball and run with it, and you haven't been exactly clear about the specific mechanics of the attack itself. Gumboot has, and you haven't bothered to address his specific points.

But as I see it, here's the wobbly Ace of Spades at the very foundation of your upside-down house of cards theory.

Even though it has been downplayed by certain CIA officials who were no doubt engaged in high-level backside covering following the dismal intel failure that was 9-11 - There are very strong indications that the Mossad warned the U.S. multiple times of an impending operation against a "large scale target."

So please tell me. Why oh why...would the Mossad - who in your theory is able to engineer the entire 9-11 plot - warn the U.S. in advance of what was going to happen?

I await.
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