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Old 15th September 2017, 05:44 AM   #321
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What is tort law other than assigning blame for a problem?
But that is not the purpose of tort law. Tort law is not to punish. It is to allocate the damages from the victim to the one at fault.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:46 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
But that is not the purpose of tort law. Tort law is not to punish. It is to allocate the damages from the victim to the one at fault.
I didn't say purpose. I said what it it is. It needs to assign blame to identify damages.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:46 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Considering the hundreds of threads I have participated in here before this one even existed, we seem to have no issue discussing multiple things at once. I also had a conversation about boxing in a different thread that achieves even less. We are capable of multitasking and having enjoyable conversations with low stakes.
Didn't that result in your suspension? Perhaps it is an example better used as a cautionary tale.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:47 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Didn't that result in your suspension? Perhaps it is an example better used as a cautionary tale.
I was suspended for personal insults.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:49 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't say purpose. I said what it it is. It needs to assign blame to identify damages.
That's not accurate actually. First, blame is not about identifying the damages, but about determining if somebody other than the victim should bear a portion of those damages instead of the victim. Second, for some actions there is strict liability. It is not a question of blame. Products liability is also not about blame. It's about spreading the costs to consumers as a kind of insurance for all consumers.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:03 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
But that is not the purpose of tort law. Tort law is not to punish. It is to allocate the damages from the victim to the one at fault.
Er, some damages are called "punitive damages". That's a part of tort law intended to punish.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:32 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
That's not accurate actually. First, blame is not about identifying the damages, but about determining if somebody other than the victim should bear a portion of those damages instead of the victim. Second, for some actions there is strict liability. It is not a question of blame. Products liability is also not about blame. It's about spreading the costs to consumers as a kind of insurance for all consumers.
Awesome point. I amend my statement to some of tort law involves assigning blame.
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Old 15th September 2017, 07:15 AM   #328
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Meanwhile...








[/indent]




[indent]











Later...






Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited to reduce picture size. Please avoid disruptive posting by using the [img=400][/imgw] tags. The value may be adjusted. This post has been edited to 300. Thank you.

ETA: My editing has left two stray indent tags, for which I apologize.
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Old 15th September 2017, 09:44 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Er, some damages are called "punitive damages". That's a part of tort law intended to punish.
Punitive damage awards are very rare, and they are only available in the case of intentional torts. Not just intentional. The behavior has to be wanton, etc.
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Old 15th September 2017, 11:56 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Punitive damage awards are very rare, and they are only available in the case of intentional torts. Not just intentional. The behavior has to be wanton, etc.
Fair enough, but this suffices to show that what you said (tort law isn't about punishment) is false in some cases.

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Old 15th September 2017, 12:38 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Fair enough, but this suffices to show that what you said (tort law isn't about punishment) is false in some cases.

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Well, it's a doctrinal issue. Torts and contracts are common law doctrines, and the common law is not about punishment, but rather restitution. Law students get hit over the head with this repeatedly. That juries sometimes seek to punish in tort cases and/or contract cases is a practical reality, which is likely good as far as public policy goes, but it is not supposed to be the point. Rather than speak of punishment, judges tend to speak of having the defendant internalize the damages caused by his actions. The difference is a semantic fiction to a large extent, but that's still what every lawyer learns in law school.
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Old 15th September 2017, 12:42 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And we're back, as always, to justifying positions by ascribing motives to others. Those on your side, have good motives, those who aren't have bad motives.
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Browse through here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

Check out the number of times they endorse something not because of any policy result but just how they will infuriate liberals.
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Old 15th September 2017, 12:46 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Well, it's a doctrinal issue. Torts and contracts are common law doctrines, and the common law is not about punishment, but rather restitution. Law students get hit over the head with this repeatedly. That juries sometimes seek to punish in tort cases and/or contract cases is a practical reality, which is likely good as far as public policy goes, but it is not supposed to be the point. Rather than speak of punishment, judges tend to speak of having the defendant internalize the damages caused by his actions. The difference is a semantic fiction to a large extent, but that's still what every lawyer learns in law school.
No, this is just plain nonsense.

Sometimes a defendant is required to pay punitive damages. Hence sometimes civil suits include punishment.

This is just plain and simple and you can pretend it's otherwise, but everyone can see you're just funning.
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Old 15th September 2017, 02:10 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No, this is just plain nonsense.

Sometimes a defendant is required to pay punitive damages. Hence sometimes civil suits include punishment.

This is just plain and simple and you can pretend it's otherwise, but everyone can see you're just funning.
You know, a lot of people pay $150,000 for the education I'm giving for free. Although gratitude is perhaps too much to expect, civility isn't. What I wrote is accurate. We have lawyers on this board. Ask them.
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Old 15th September 2017, 02:13 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
You know, a lot of people pay $150,000 for the education I'm giving for free. Although gratitude is perhaps too much to expect, civility isn't. What I wrote is accurate. We have lawyers on this board. Ask them.
I'm pretty sure the sum total of your contributions on this forum, added to mine and phiwum's, aren't worth 150,000 dollars.
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Old 15th September 2017, 02:43 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm pretty sure the sum total of your contributions on this forum, added to mine and phiwum's, aren't worth 150,000 dollars.
Mine alone would be a higher sum.
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Old 15th September 2017, 02:56 PM   #337
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Ha ha ha. Hilarious.
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Old 15th September 2017, 04:43 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
You know, a lot of people pay $150,000 for the education I'm giving for free. Although gratitude is perhaps too much to expect, civility isn't. What I wrote is accurate. We have lawyers on this board. Ask them.
Uh huh. You said tort law isn't intended to punish. Sometimes it is. I don't think I'd pay tens of thousands of dollars for the education you offer.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:26 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Punitive damage awards are very rare, and they are only available in the case of intentional torts. Not just intentional. The behavior has to be wanton, etc.
Maybe there's context I've missed in this discussion, but clearly there is punitive damage in cases other than international torts.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:35 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Maybe there's context I've missed in this discussion, but clearly there is punitive damage in cases other than international torts.
Did you misread "intentional" as "international"?
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:53 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
...and my evaluation is wrong because.....
It's non-objective.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:55 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
The sarcasm would go much better if i had a clue what that even means.
How poignant.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:56 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Again, sane, intelligent people saw this coming a mile away.
Edited by Agatha:  Removed rule 12 breach. Do not personalise your arguments.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:01 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Ah, yes. Once again let's not blame those who put Trump into office. Let's blame Hillary for not winning!
Face it. If she couldn't beat Trump, she didn't deserve to win. I say that as a Trump antagonist.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:06 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Face it. If she couldn't beat Trump, she didn't deserve to win. I say that as a Trump antagonist.
Saying she didn't deserve to win is not the same thing as blaming her for Trump.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:07 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Browse through here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

Check out the number of times they endorse something not because of any policy result but just how they will infuriate liberals.
This isn't about the motives of people posting on reddit. And reddit posts don't demonstrate anything about the motives of any administration.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:43 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahFence
The sarcasm would go much better if i had a clue what that even means.
How poignant.
It's called dramatic irony
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Old 15th September 2017, 07:11 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Cartoon
Did you make this yourself?

Excellent!

I really appreciated it for calling out how some of us (including myself) have been condescending toward the "Bluecollarites" who voted for Trump. It really does point out an attitudinal rot in the Democratic party elite.

Thank You!

Nominated!!!!
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Old 15th September 2017, 07:32 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Did you make this yourself?

Excellent!

I really appreciated it for calling out how some of us (including myself) have been condescending toward the "Bluecollarites" who voted for Trump. It really does point out an attitudinal rot in the Democratic party elite.

Thank You!

Nominated!!!!
But blue collars are dumber than white collars. And a good demonstration of that is refusal to vote for someone smarter than you that calls you dumb. Have some aspirations.
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Old 15th September 2017, 08:45 PM   #350
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Looks like I have a new pet
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Old 15th September 2017, 08:59 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I can"t blame anyone for voting for Trump under those circumstances.
I can. They could've voted for an alternative party. There were more than two people on my ballot.
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Old 15th September 2017, 09:39 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But blue collars are dumber than white collars. And a good demonstration of that is refusal to vote for someone smarter than you that calls you dumb. Have some aspirations.
I don't see how it follows from this that "Whitecollarites" are smarter than "Blurcollarites."

Tell any color collar (except Catholic cleric), "You're deplorable," and you lose credibility.
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Old 16th September 2017, 12:03 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This isn't about the motives of people posting on reddit. And reddit posts don't demonstrate anything about the motives of any administration.
The motives of the administration are irrelevant to this discussion. I'm only concerned with the motives of those that put them there.

And ignoring that the motives of those that put them there are damned disgusting is pretty dangerous.
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Old 16th September 2017, 12:20 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
I can. They could've voted for an alternative party. There were more than two people on my ballot.
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Old 16th September 2017, 05:13 AM   #355
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Uh huh. You said tort law isn't intended to punish. Sometimes it is. I don't think I'd pay tens of thousands of dollars for the education you offer.
I'll leave it to our readers to determine whose description of the system is more illuminating and accurate, and whether my original claim is true. But, yes, punitive damages are meant to punish (hence the name), and they are awarded sometimes in tort cases (although very rarely). Here is a link with some statistics:

Quote:
Contrary to popular myth, punitive damages are rarely awarded.

In 2005, the most recent year studied by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ), punitive damages were awarded in only 5 percent of civil cases where plaintiffs prevailed at trial.

Punitive damages were awarded in only 3 percent of tort cases with plaintiff winners; for contract cases, it was 8 percent.

Medical Malpractice: In 2005, punitive damages were awarded in only 1 percent of cases where medical malpractice victims established liability at trial.5

Product Liability: In 2005, punitive damages were awarded in only 1 percent of product liability cases with a successful plaintiff.6 This includes asbestos and other product liability trials.
Notice that in only 3% of tort cases where the plaintiff wins, punitive damages are awarded. It is even lower for the most well-known of torts: medical malpractice and product liability. Of course, the most common tort action in the US is for car accidents.

Strangely enough, the % of cases where the plaintiff wins and punitive damages are awarded is even higher for contract cases. Historically, courts have been even more reluctant to include an element of punishment for breach of contracts than for torts.
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Old 16th September 2017, 05:17 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Maybe there's context I've missed in this discussion, but clearly there is punitive damage in cases other than international torts.
You're seriously citing the website of a personal injury lawyer? You have the whole internet available to you, and you go to a bottom feeder of the legal profession, who is trying to solicit new clients, as your authority?

Highly unimpressive.

Last edited by sunmaster14; 16th September 2017 at 05:20 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 16th September 2017, 05:29 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
You're seriously citing the website of a personal injury lawyer? You have the whole internet available to you, and you go to a bottom feeder of the legal profession, who is trying to solicit new clients, as your authority?

Highly unimpressive.
Er, you agree with the fact he's claiming (namely that punitive damages are sometimes awarded), so what point are you trying to make here? Just busting his balls because you might as well? Even though you accept his conclusion?
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Old 16th September 2017, 05:40 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
I don't see how it follows from this that "Whitecollarites" are smarter than "Blurcollarites."

Tell any color collar (except Catholic cleric), "You're deplorable," and you lose credibility.
Last thing first, you would be stupid to think someone is less credible because they call you deplorable. It is the perfect opportunity for self examination.

Things that contribute to the white collar advantage would be a number of related social and economic forces that lead to that career. Beyond the additional education of college, there is a multi generational aspect where the parents tend to so be wealthier and more educated contributing to attending better primary schools, having fewer stressors that affect learning while growing up, etc.
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Old 16th September 2017, 05:51 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
The motives of the administration are irrelevant to this discussion. I'm only concerned with the motives of those that put them there.
You made a specific claim about the administration's motives. Lest you forget:

Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Even if I accepted that the scandals were real, which I don't, at least her policies were designed to help as many people as possible whereas his are only designed to make liberals cry.
The administration designs its own policies, not voters. So this is absolutely a claim about the administration's motives. If you care to retract that claim, go ahead. But you don't get to pretend you didn't make the claim, or that I wasn't addressing that claim.

Quote:
And ignoring that the motives of those that put them there are damned disgusting is pretty dangerous.
And sampling reddit posts as your method of determining the motives of almost half the electorate is pretty stupid.
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Old 16th September 2017, 06:51 AM   #360
applecorped
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A majority of these complaints could be summed up as......waaaaaaaaa
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