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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:08 PM   #241
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- People changed religion. Even his books and names. Most Christians have even begun to worship the trinity, and this is paganism.

So it's not about before or after Muhammad.

The issue here is to get away from Islam.

True religion and truth only in Qur'an now.

I said "If they don't to attribute a partner to (God), and if they are good people." they will salvation.

But Many Christians worship the trinity.

Many Christians and Jewish rabbis see priests and saints as religious authorities. This is a company.They attribute partners to (God), this is paganism.

God is the only authority in the field of religion.

Real Islam is only in Quran.

2- When a person reads the Qur'an, he should be respect even if he is not a Muslim.

Who follow these details will always reach salvation in the Hereafter.

Sorry but you are not answering my questions here. I want you to think about this and not just make statements of faith.

Was there no truth before the Koran?

Did not people find salvation before the Koran?

What about those who had/have not heard of the Koran. Are they condemned because of their lack of knowledge?

The Koran recognises Jesus as a prophet before Muhammad. Is what he said not true or did it cease to be true just as Muhammad came on the scene?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:29 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Sorry but you are not answering my questions here. I want you to think about this and not just make statements of faith.

Was there no truth before the Koran?

Did not people find salvation before the Koran?

What about those who had/have not heard of the Koran. Are they condemned because of their lack of knowledge?

The Koran recognises Jesus as a prophet before Muhammad. Is what he said not true or did it cease to be true just as Muhammad came on the scene?

I answered very clearly.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:33 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I answered very clearly.
Via bald assertion. Yawn.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:39 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I answered very clearly.
Sorry. Not god; didn't read.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:03 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I answered very clearly.

You seem to be alone in that assessment.

As I explained to you before we are mostly skeptics here, and as skeptics we respond best to rational argument, and evidence based statements. Repetitious statements of faith don't cut it for us.

When on the outside of a religion and looking in certain anomalies become glaringly apparent to the non believer. When you are inside the religion, (in the bubble we sometimes say), for some reason these anomalies do not come to your attention.

Something I find intriguing is the reverence Muslims have for Muhammad. When Muslims pray they face Mecca because this is the burial site of Muhammad, correct? Why is this so when you are praying to Allah - is he not everywhere?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:38 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
You seem to be alone in that assessment.

As I explained to you before we are mostly skeptics here, and as skeptics we respond best to rational argument, and evidence based statements. Repetitious statements of faith don't cut it for us.

When on the outside of a religion and looking in certain anomalies become glaringly apparent to the non believer. When you are inside the religion, (in the bubble we sometimes say), for some reason these anomalies do not come to your attention.

Something I find intriguing is the reverence Muslims have for Muhammad. When Muslims pray they face Mecca because this is the burial site of Muhammad, correct? Why is this so when you are praying to Allah - is he not everywhere?
It does not matter if I'm alone.

I am right.

There is nothing about Muhammad.

Peace
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Old 23rd October 2017, 05:26 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
It does not matter if I'm alone.

I am right.

There is nothing about Muhammad.

Peace
Huh? You're right? Want to demonstrate it through scientific principles? The day you can, I'll convert.


Also, what does 'There is nothing about Muhammad' mean? From a literary view, that sentence is nonsensical.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:21 PM   #248
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Wink

[quote=Emre_1974tr;12046140]

blather snipped

Quote:
Most Christians have even begun to worship the trinity,
"Begun"? The doctrine of the Trinity was established in 325 CE.

Quote:
and this is paganism.
This is apparently some new use of the term paganism with which most of the world is unfamiliar.

Quote:
The issue here is to get away from Islam.
Seems to contradict most of your blather.

Quote:
True religion
No such animal.

Quote:
Many Christians and Jewish rabbis see priests and saints as religious authorities.
But Imams, of course, have no authority in Islam.

Other fallacies & blatant errors skipped for want of bed time.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 09:02 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
It does not matter if I'm alone.

I am right.

There is nothing about Muhammad.

Peace

Now listen Emre. You started this thread for what reason? Just to annoy people or do you want to make an impression, and convince others you have something worthwhile to say?

If the latter then you must engage in conversation and answer questions asked.
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Old 24th October 2017, 05:17 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Now listen Emre. You started this thread for what reason? Just to annoy people or do you want to make an impression, and convince others you have something worthwhile to say?

If the latter then you must engage in conversation and answer questions asked.
I am happy that Emre and Co. are the best Allah's got. Crack troops like that leave religion's demise certain.
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Old 24th October 2017, 06:52 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I am right.
No.
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Old 24th October 2017, 09:42 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
No.
Irony in three characters.
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Old 24th October 2017, 10:46 AM   #253
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I cannot believe that there is any being in this universe who has created a human soul for eternal pain. I would rather that every god would destroy himself; I would rather that we all should go to eternal chaos, to black and starless night, than that just one soul should suffer eternal agony.
Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-99):

I am with Ingersoll on this.
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Old 24th October 2017, 01:21 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I cannot believe that there is any being in this universe who has created a human soul for eternal pain. I would rather that every god would destroy himself; I would rather that we all should go to eternal chaos, to black and starless night, than that just one soul should suffer eternal agony.
Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-99):

I am with Ingersoll on this.

So You don't go with Revelation 21:8, Matthew 25:46, Psalm 9:17, etc, etc, etc. From the book you like to quote?
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Old 24th October 2017, 05:34 PM   #255
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[quote=Peregrinus;12046453]
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post



But Imams, of course, have no authority in Islam.
No, of course.

There is no imam in true Islam in the Qur'an.
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Old 24th October 2017, 05:47 PM   #256
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[quote=Emre_1974tr;12047645]
Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post

No, of course.

There is no imam in true Islam in the Qur'an.
'True Islam' is an oxymoron.
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Old 25th October 2017, 02:09 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
They attribute partners to (God), this is paganism.

God is the only authority in the field of religion.
This also is not true. Have you actually read the Quran?

Quote:
Have you thought of al-Lāt and al-‘Uzzá
and Manāt, the third, the other?
These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for.
(Sura 53, 19-20)
These are the so-called Satanic Verses that got Salman Rusdie into so much trouble. The tragic irony is that he was right: there names are still in the Quran.
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Old 25th October 2017, 07:17 AM   #258
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[quote=Emre_1974tr;12047645]
Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post

No, of course.

There is no imam in true Islam in the Qur'an.
Imams are a bunch of liars. First they say you need them to interpret the Quran, then they make up complete lies to justify the rubbish in it. The
classic example is they say when the Quran says the sun has an orbit, this is a great revelation because it means Muhammad knew the sun had an obit in the galaxy. But the truth is the Quran really means the sun obits the earth.
Thereby proving it is not a message from God.
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Old 25th October 2017, 07:52 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Imams are a bunch of liars. First they say you need them to interpret the Quran, then they make up complete lies to justify the rubbish in it. The
classic example is they say when the Quran says the sun has an orbit, this is a great revelation because it means Muhammad knew the sun had an obit in the galaxy. But the truth is the Quran really means the sun obits the earth.
Thereby proving it is not a message from God.
A bit like talking donkeys in the bible then?
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Old 25th October 2017, 12:51 PM   #260
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[quote=Scorpion;12048387]
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post

... this is a great revelation because it means Muhammad knew the sun had an obit in the galaxy....
In Muhammed's day there was zero knowledge of our being part of a galaxy.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:28 PM   #261
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NECM

19.Have ye seen Lat. and ´Uzza

20.And another, the third , Manat?

21.Are yours the males and His the females?


22.Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

23.These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

.....

The Quran says Lat, Uzza and Menat are fake gods that people make up.

Just like saying the trinity is a fake.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:46 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post

Something I find intriguing is the reverence Muslims have for Muhammad. When Muslims pray they face Mecca because this is the burial site of Muhammad, correct? Why is this so when you are praying to Allah - is he not everywhere?
No, in the time of the Prophet Muhammad it was also the qible Kabe.

Bakara 144. "We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces when ye pray) toward it. Lo! those who have received the Scripture know that (this Revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."

The last prophet's grave is kept secret. It is unknown where it is. Thus, people are prevented from sanctifying the place.
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Old 25th October 2017, 06:18 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
NECM

The Quran says Lat, Uzza and Menat are fake gods that people make up.

Just like saying the trinity is a fake.
Just like saying any concept labelled as a divinity is a fake. Not a shred of convincing evidence for the pack of them. Your special pleading* gains you no Get Out of Jail Free card.

*One of your more frequently repeated logical fallacies.
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Old 25th October 2017, 06:42 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, in the time of the Prophet Muhammad it was also the qible Kabe.

Bakara 144. "We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces when ye pray) toward it. Lo! those who have received the Scripture know that (this Revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."

The last prophet's grave is kept secret. It is unknown where it is. Thus, people are prevented from sanctifying the place.
Seriously Emre,

Why should we care about Muhammad or the Quran anymore than Gandalf and The Lord of the Rings? You don't have a shred of evidence that any of it is true. Why do you care what is in a dusty old book? Why should we care when you can't prove it is true anymore than any other religions can prove their God or gods are true?

Don't you see that the only thing that sets this apart for you is that you were raised to believe it? If you can't see it, taste it, feel it or detect it with any instrument, how is it different than an illusion?
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Old 25th October 2017, 08:47 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, in the time of the Prophet Muhammad it was also the qible Kabe.

Bakara 144. "We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces when ye pray) toward it. Lo! those who have received the Scripture know that (this Revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."

The last prophet's grave is kept secret. It is unknown where it is. Thus, people are prevented from sanctifying the place.

Oh my mistake as I read now Mecca (qible Kabe?) was the place Muhammed was born not died. Also:

Quote:
It needs to be noted that Arabs had been making the pilgrimage to Mecca-to the enormous granite Ka'aba, the old shrine at the center of the city-for hundreds, possibly thousands of years, before Islam to pay tribute to these 360 gods represented inside the Ka'aba's walls. Muhammad destroyed all but two - that of the Virgin Mary, and that of Christ. However, even those representations would eventually be banned under Islam's subsequent prohibition of images. This prohibition was not endorsed by the Prophet.
So what happened to those images of the Virgin Mary and Christ then, and were those guys wrong in their prohibition?

It seems somewhat opportunistic to grab the Ka'aba for Islam when it was a shrine for the worship for those other 360 gods.
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Old 26th October 2017, 06:19 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
It seems somewhat opportunistic to grab the Ka'aba for Islam when it was a shrine for the worship for those other 360 gods.
But ... but ... but ... don't you see that demonstrates the inclusivity of Islam?
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Old 26th October 2017, 06:26 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, in the time of the Prophet Muhammad it was also the qible Kabe.

Bakara 144. "We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces when ye pray) toward it. Lo! those who have received the Scripture know that (this Revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."

The last prophet's grave is kept secret. It is unknown where it is. Thus, people are prevented from sanctifying the place.
Emre, please put the surah numbers, not the name of the surah. I know that Bakara is supposed to be Al-Baqarah ,(surah 2 the cow), but not many people would know that, so if they want to look up your Quran quotes they can't do it.
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Old 26th October 2017, 07:12 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Emre, please put the surah numbers, not the name of the surah. I know that Bakara is supposed to be Al-Baqarah ,(surah 2 the cow), but not many people would know that, so if they want to look up your Quran quotes they can't do it.
It's 2:144. There is a lot of odd stuff in Sura 2.
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Old 26th October 2017, 02:31 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
But ... but ... but ... don't you see that demonstrates the inclusivity of Islam?

The 360 figure is close to 365 or 365 & 1/4 so I wonder if this is a coincidence. Maybe some divine revelation telling us how many days are in the year?

Not very accurate of course but we get to expect that from divine sources. Can't make it too easy to believe in the existence of gods can we.
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Old 26th October 2017, 05:02 PM   #270
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I have said that Islam has existed since the first people.

Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad are all prophets of Islam. There is only one holy religion.

As people changed religion and the book, the prophet and the book were sent again from God.

The Kaaba is also the first Islamic temple in history.

Quran 3:96. "Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Mecca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples;"

After, People degenerated and changed the Kabe and prayer.

Through the Prophet Muhammad, the Qur'an came and Islam was once again transformed into its original form.

The Kaaba is purified from idols.

In short, as people and other beings changed their path of salvation, Islam came again.
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Old 26th October 2017, 05:37 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I have said that Islam has existed since the first people.

Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad are all prophets of Islam. There is only one holy religion.

As people changed religion and the book, the prophet and the book were sent again from God.

The Kaaba is also the first Islamic temple in history.

Quran 3:96. "Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Mecca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples;"

After, People degenerated and changed the Kabe and prayer.

Through the Prophet Muhammad, the Qur'an came and Islam was once again transformed into its original form.

The Kaaba is purified from idols.

In short, as people and other beings changed their path of salvation, Islam came again.
Blessed are those who came, especially if they came twice or three times.

Your version of religious claptrap isn't any different from any other brand of religious claptrap. .

It all comes down to Hurrah for me! and **** You!
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Old 26th October 2017, 06:02 PM   #272
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I have said that Islam has existed since the first people.

Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad are all prophets of Islam. There is only one holy religion.

As people changed religion and the book, the prophet and the book were sent again from God.

The Kaaba is also the first Islamic temple in history.

Quran 3:96. "Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Mecca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples;"

After, People degenerated and changed the Kabe and prayer.

Through the Prophet Muhammad, the Qur'an came and Islam was once again transformed into its original form.

The Kaaba is purified from idols.

In short, as people and other beings changed their path of salvation, Islam came again.

So Abraham, Noah, and Jesus were all prophets of Islam but man screwed it all up you say.

What makes you so sure man hasn't screwed it up again after Muhammad?

Oh wait, I think I have an answer to that...... Man has screwed it up but you Emre are right on the ball.
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Old 26th October 2017, 06:03 PM   #273
Peregrinus
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I have said that Islam has existed since the first people.

Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad are all prophets of Islam. There is only one holy religion.

As people changed religion and the book, the prophet and the book were sent again from God.

The Kaaba is also the first Islamic temple in history.

Quran 3:96. "Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Mecca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples;"

After, People degenerated and changed the Kabe and prayer.

Through the Prophet Muhammad, the Qur'an came and Islam was once again transformed into its original form.

The Kaaba is purified from idols.

In short, as people and other beings changed their path of salvation, Islam came again.
Again the cart before the horse*. And please, no more strained metaphors. You have little or no competence with declarative sentences, rational thinking or an unblinkered world view. Gibberish repeated - readily disproven gibberish - remains gibberish.**

*Not to mention several and varied logical fallacies and fanciful historical impossibilities.

**Now, if it turns out you've found some new and wondrously influential psychotropic drugs we might invite you to the party - be sure to bring your own hookah.
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Old 27th October 2017, 01:33 AM   #274
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
**Now, if it turns out you've found some new and wondrously influential psychotropic drugs we might invite you to the party - be sure to bring your own hookah.
Religion is its own Opium.
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Old 27th October 2017, 01:41 AM   #275
Hungry81
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I have said that Islam has existed since the first people.

Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad are all prophets of Islam. There is only one holy religion.

As people changed religion and the book, the prophet and the book were sent again from God.

The Kaaba is also the first Islamic temple in history.

Quran 3:96. "Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Mecca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples;"

After, People degenerated and changed the Kabe and prayer.

Through the Prophet Muhammad, the Qur'an came and Islam was once again transformed into its original form.

The Kaaba is purified from idols.

In short, as people and other beings changed their path of salvation, Islam came again.
Ha ha ha. You are back to your " No, my religion really was the firstest." hahahaha, Bull-**** . How infantile.
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Old 27th October 2017, 06:14 AM   #276
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Allah save me from Allah's apologists!
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Old 27th October 2017, 06:48 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
the prophet and the book were sent again from God.
.
I keep telling ya that the Quran is all stolen from the bible. No wait it, was also stolen from a book of fables.

You have yet to explain, as has every other Muslim I have asked, how the story of Jesus bringing a clay bird to life got into the Quran.
See the Quran verses 3.49 and 5.110
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Old 27th October 2017, 06:51 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I keep telling ya that the Quran is all stolen from the bible. No wait it, was also stolen from a book of fables.
Tautology.
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:27 AM   #279
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post

the sun obits the earth.
No,

38- And the Sun moves on to its destination.
That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower.
(36- Ya-Seen, 38)


http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/03...o-moves-along/

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 27th October 2017 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:49 AM   #280
Peregrinus
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No,

38- And the Sun moves on to its destination.
That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower.
(36- Ya-Seen, 38)


http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/03...o-moves-along/
The Sun has no destination. It matters not how much esteem you might have for the Qur'an - if it makes a statement that is simply not in accord with reality, that statement is not in accord with reality.
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