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Tags 2017 elections , Alabama elections , Alabama politics , roy moore

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Old 10th November 2017, 01:54 PM   #161
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I find it odd that some think a man in his 30s going after teenagers is okay just because he didn't rape them and in some cases asked for parental permission.
I find it odd that people think it's not okay if it's perfectly consensual and legal. Why is it that some "liberals" come off as just as terrible moralists as Roy Moore?

Quote:
Does this mean 30 something men can now flood Alabama and ask out 14 year olds?
No <snip> Did you bother reading the post article? The age of consent in Alabama is (and was) 16. Only one of the girls was under that age when he asked them out.

Quote:
I suspect a great many will object when its their daughter that much older men are perving on.
I'm also sure they would be. Doesn't matter if it's perfectly legal and consensual.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rule 0/12
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Last edited by Loss Leader; 10th November 2017 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:55 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Amazing to see the party that wrote anti-trans bathroom bills to “protect young girls from predatory pedophiles” is now defending Roy Moore.
It actually makes a lot of sense. This speaks to the observation that people who are the most concerned about others committing a "sin" often secretly want to commit that sin themselves. The gay-bashing politician who is found in the airport restroom with a "wide stance." The judge who is so intent on forcing others to follow their Old Testament view of morality who is secretly dreaming of bedding 14 year olds. Not a surprise to me.

Who would even think of a person pretending to be trans-gendered to get into a restroom to watch girls peeing? In addition to this being a difficult thing to do in practice (there are stalls you know) I suspect one would have to have been contemplating this oneself to even have the idea that anyone else would try it!

I have observed the truth of this general concept in my own life: the person in one of my former colleges who was most concerned about others embezzling funds was, yes you guessed it, later arrested for embezzlement.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:07 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Amazing to see the party that wrote anti-trans bathroom bills to “protect young girls from predatory pedophiles” is now defending Roy Moore.
Only if you think the party in question is a cohesive whole. A number of prominent Republicans have also condemned Moore.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...l-figures.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.a6feeffa358f

That being said, the fundies have a real weird attitude to underage sex. Remember that story from a year or so ago about underage marriage in the US. 200000 marriages with mostly the bride being married to an adult groom in the last 15 years. Mostly the same folks who seem to think sex is only slightly less bad if you're married so they willingly sign over daughters to their rapists.

Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I find it odd that people think it's not okay if it's perfectly consensual and legal. Why is it that some "liberals" come off as just as terrible moralists as Roy Moore?
I find it odd that anyone thinks its at all ok for a 30 year to have a sexual relationship with a 16 year old just because its legal and the 16 year old consented. Aside from that, I generally hold the people I vote for to a higher standard than, "they haven't been convicted of a crime."

Last edited by ahhell; 10th November 2017 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:29 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I find it odd that people think it's not okay if it's perfectly consensual and legal.
Just because something is legal and consensual doesn't make it morally okay or not repugnant.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:40 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Just because something is legal and consensual doesn't make it morally okay or not repugnant.
Of course. Many share this mindset with Roy Moore including people in this thread who apparently treat dating a 16 or 17 year old as equivalent to sexually assaulting a 14 year old.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:54 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Of course if more women do come forward, they're just jumping on the bandwagon with unsubstantiated "me too!" stories. It seems that you need exactly the right number of alleged victims.

Too few and it's ridiculous that so voracious a predator could have had so few victims, too many and it's ridiculous that he could have escaped detection for so long .

The allegations about Jimmy Saville didn't become public until after his death. Those about Rolf Harris until he was in his 80's. I don't think it's at all unreasonable that it could take 40 years until someone had the nerve to come forward.
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Okay.

Why would that behavior stop?

Why did this talk amongst teenage girls not reach a lot more people at the time? that sort of thing has a way of spreading like a wildfire.

It seems like the sort of info a political rival would love to have and use to stop Moore from running for office or to get him removed?
See The Don's post immediately above yours - or eeyore1954's post

Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Surprising maybe but the number of accusations of sexual assault in the movie industry many which are not being denied show that for whatever reason people do keep these things secret.
To which one could also add Bill Cosby.




Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Does it make sense to call anyone except the 14 year old a "victim"? I haven't followed this closely, but my understanding is that all of the other women were above the legal age of consent, and that no non-consensual sex occurred.

So.....victim? Of what?

The 14 year old is, obviously, a separate case. Her allegations are indeed very serious.

ETA: I'm no fan of Moore, but I'm just interested in the way these things are spun.
There is also a power difference. In the UK the law changed so that although the age of consent is 16, it is still an offence for a teacher to have sex with a 17year old student that they are in a position of power over them. That seems sensible.

Moore was going after people where there was a power imbalance. If he had only had a relationship with one seventeen year old, then it might be a bit creepy but no more. However, given his behaviour with the fourteen year old and other teenagers, it goes beyond that.

Context is important. A silly analogy:
I sometimes buy eggs and flour - and I cook with them, which is unsurprising.

If I had had a history of vandalising property and throwing eggs at people's houses, then it seeing me buy four dozen eggs would be suspicious.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:56 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Of course. Many share this mindset with Roy Moore including people in this thread who apparently treat dating a 16 or 17 year old as equivalent to sexually assaulting a 14 year old.
The biggest issue with a 30+ year old dating a 16 or 17 year old, especially when the 30+ year old has a powerful job, is that it puts them in a position of power over the person that they are dating. The makes people think that they need to submit to whatever the older and more powerful person wants to do, takes away their freedom of choice, and yes, is a type of abuse.

We can see this in the accusations against US comedian Louis CK, where he asked woman is they wanted to see his penis, but because of his position of power over them they felt they weren't able to reject such things. Similarly the whole Trump thing where he notes that "When you are rich and powerful they let you do these sorts of things." No, it's because when confronted by a rich and powerful man (or woman) who has the ability to control you and make your life miserable if you refuse to go along with their desires, people are more likely to allow the abuser to exert that power over them by surrendering their own will in the matter. And that is a form of abuse, and one that people in positions of power need to understand and be aware of when they approach others for intimate relationships.
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Old 10th November 2017, 03:16 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The biggest issue with a 30+ year old dating a 16 or 17 year old, especially when the 30+ year old has a powerful job, is that it puts them in a position of power over the person that they are dating. The makes people think that they need to submit to whatever the older and more powerful person wants to do, takes away their freedom of choice, and yes, is a type of abuse.

We can see this in the accusations against US comedian Louis CK, where he asked woman is they wanted to see his penis, but because of his position of power over them they felt they weren't able to reject such things. Similarly the whole Trump thing where he notes that "When you are rich and powerful they let you do these sorts of things." No, it's because when confronted by a rich and powerful man (or woman) who has the ability to control you and make your life miserable if you refuse to go along with their desires, people are more likely to allow the abuser to exert that power over them by surrendering their own will in the matter. And that is a form of abuse, and one that people in positions of power need to understand and be aware of when they approach others for intimate relationships.
Yet none of the victims aged 16-18 felt pressured or coerced into going along with him on the dates or being in a relationship. Even the 14 year old, according to her own testimony, resisted his advances and told him she wanted to be driven home which he did.

Despite this people seem to think that him dating people aged 16-18 not only makes them victims of sexual abuse but is somehow evidence of him sexually assaulting a 14 year old.

Is someone dating a 43 year old woman evidence that they raped a 37 year old woman? This thread has convinced me that it is more than enough evidence to support that conclusion.
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Old 10th November 2017, 03:47 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yet none of the victims aged 16-18 felt pressured or coerced into going along with him on the dates or being in a relationship.
As a matter of power dynamic, their opinion doesn't matter. In the most extreme example, a slave in a consenting relationship with the slave master is a victim of the power dynamic.
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Old 10th November 2017, 04:04 PM   #170
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Mike Lee has withdrawn his endorsement.

ETA: Steve Daines as well.

Last edited by Stacko; 10th November 2017 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 04:05 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yet none of the victims aged 16-18 felt pressured or coerced into going along with him on the dates or being in a relationship. Even the 14 year old, according to her own testimony, resisted his advances and told him she wanted to be driven home which he did.

Despite this people seem to think that him dating people aged 16-18 not only makes them victims of sexual abuse but is somehow evidence of him sexually assaulting a 14 year old.

Is someone dating a 43 year old woman evidence that they raped a 37 year old woman? This thread has convinced me that it is more than enough evidence to support that conclusion.
The story of the 14 year old, if true, is one of a sex crime committed by Moore under Alabama law - and an unethical act according to the ethics standards of many conservative, xtian Americans that traditionally form the GOP voter base.

But is the story true? Is that behaviour something Moore would likely have done? We don't have videos, no photos, not even a diary. Do we have other witnesses?

Yes.

The three other romantic affairs, while in themselves not illegal and perhaps less of an ethical concern for the same conservative base, establish a pattern: obviously, Moore had a knack for seducing teenagers when he was in his early 30s. This strengthens the credibility of the former 14yo's account, and that is IMO the main reason the WaPo reported on these incidents.
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Old 10th November 2017, 04:09 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Of course. Many share this mindset with Roy Moore including people in this thread who apparently treat dating a 16 or 17 year old as equivalent to sexually assaulting a 14 year old.
Oh yes, and how many of those same people condemned the 18 yr old lesbian with the 16 yr old girlfriend? State law is the final arbitrator of morality?
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Old 10th November 2017, 04:13 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The story of the 14 year old, if true, is one of a sex crime committed by Moore under Alabama law - and an unethical act according to the ethics standards of many conservative, xtian Americans that traditionally form the GOP voter base.

But is the story true? Is that behaviour something Moore would likely have done? We don't have videos, no photos, not even a diary. Do we have other witnesses?

Yes.

The three other romantic affairs, while in themselves not illegal and perhaps less of an ethical concern for the same conservative base, establish a pattern: obviously, Moore had a knack for seducing teenagers when he was in his early 30s. This strengthens the credibility of the former 14yo's account, and that is IMO the main reason the WaPo reported on these incidents.
She also told people at the time and WA Po got testimony from those people.
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Old 10th November 2017, 05:04 PM   #174
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Didn't see this posted already, but this is hardly the worst fact of this case. Aside from the fact that a big chunk of the GOP and its rabid supporters are trying to justify this, there's also the disturbing fact that Moore refused to convict a man who raped a 12 year old adolescent child.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...ing-out-to-you

Excerpt:
Quote:
It was an open and shut case. A daycare center employee, Eric Higdon, raped a 12-year old child. He was found guilty under a sodomy statute specific to minors by all members of the 9-judge panel supreme court in Alabama.

Actually, make that all 9 members except one.

Judge Roy Moore.

Moore stated there was “no evidence in this case of an implied threat of serious physical injury.” A child was raped. What kind of “judge” says that?

The exact same judge who sexually assaulted a 14-year old girl in a court custody case!

It’s not like Alabama GOP voters didn’t know about Moore’s awful decision: his primary opponent blanketed the airwaves with ads attacking him for it. Alabama GOP voters just didn’t give a ****. They voted for him overwhelmingly anyway.

And some of his supporters are defending his actions, saying a paedophile in office is preferable to voting for a Democrat. Others are just doing the usual victim blaming, saying that the 14 year old girl "made bad decisions". And he still has strong support from local evangelical Christians.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928734837887954950
https://twitter.com/CarrollBryant/st...63150820642816

Tell me again how we need to "understand" and "reach out to" Republicans?
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Old 10th November 2017, 05:08 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Didn't see this posted already, but this is hardly the worst fact of this case. Aside from the fact that a big chunk of the GOP and its rabid supporters are trying to justify this, there's also the disturbing fact that Moore refused to convict a man who raped a 12 year old adolescent child.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...ing-out-to-you

Excerpt:



And some of his supporters are defending his actions, saying a paedophile in office is preferable to voting for a Democrat. Others are just doing the usual victim blaming, saying that the 14 year old girl "made bad decisions". And he still has strong support from local evangelical Christians.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928734837887954950
https://twitter.com/CarrollBryant/st...63150820642816

Tell me again how we need to "understand" and "reach out to" Republicans?
It seems to me that most of the Republican leadership in DC hasn't had the truly horrible reactions we see from many of Alabama's GOP leadership. Perhaps they haven't said as forcefully as one would like that Moore should drop out, but they also haven't said that he is the better candidate regardless of whether the story is true or not, as some Alabamians have.
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Old 10th November 2017, 05:10 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As a matter of power dynamic, their [a legally consenting 16 or 17 year old's] opinion doesn't matter. In the most extreme example, a slave in a consenting relationship with the slave master is a victim of the power dynamic.

Moore is an idiot and a perv, but this is the most bizarre analogy I've ever seen -- free people freely choosing to do something vs. a god damned slave?!?!?

What.
The.
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Old 10th November 2017, 05:13 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
It seems to me that most of the Republican leadership in DC hasn't had the truly horrible reactions we see from many of Alabama's GOP leadership. Perhaps they haven't said as forcefully as one would like that Moore should drop out, but they also haven't said that he is the better candidate regardless of whether the story is true or not, as some Alabamians have.

Given the number of DC GOP staffers who have been caught soliciting underage sex, all that means is that they're somewhat more politically savvy than the inbred hicks who support Moore more vehemently.
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Old 10th November 2017, 05:26 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
It seems to me that most of the Republican leadership in DC hasn't had the truly horrible reactions we see from many of Alabama's GOP leadership. Perhaps they haven't said as forcefully as one would like that Moore should drop out, but they also haven't said that he is the better candidate regardless of whether the story is true or not, as some Alabamians have.
It's pretty telling that his biggest Alabama GOP defenders seem to assume it’s true but just don’t care. Almost like they expected the news to drop at some point.
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Old 10th November 2017, 05:32 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Of course. Many share this mindset with Roy Moore including people in this thread who apparently treat dating a 16 or 17 year old as equivalent to sexually assaulting a 14 year old.
I have no such confusion and I don't observe anyone else making that assertion.

My particular objection is that imo, any 30 something adult of any persuasion that was pursuing 14 year olds (where lawful or otherwise) rather than like age partners has issues. Even where legal. Whatever floats their boat is their business, but that wouldn't be likely to be someone I'd welcome as a friend or colleague.

And FWIW, I'd look at someone in my age group pursuing a 30 something partner as both ludicrous and creepy. I've seen it in the RW and it's amazing to see some old duffer try to chat up a 20 or 30 something woman - note to creepy 60 + year old men - the beautiful 30 something cashier at Trader Joe's is not looking for you unless she's trying to give you back the bifocals you forgot at her check stand.
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:19 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Moore is an idiot and a perv, but this is the most bizarre analogy I've ever seen -- free people freely choosing to do something vs. a god damned slave?!?!?

What.
The.
Hell.



Being fwee is dangewus and vewy scawy, huh? Gobberment should end it for our own good!


Freedom is slavery!


You are free...to do as we tell you! You are free...to do as we tell you!
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It is quite an impressive jump to take a statement about power dynamics as somehow an endorsement of intervention. As a matter of fact, I have a history of being completely accepting of mismatched power dynamics being outside the realm of the state.
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:45 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
One must also consider state laws vary. A 30 yr old with a 17 or younger is considered statutory rape in some states. Does that make a difference?
If something is illegal in one state, but you do the same thing in a different state, you aren't breaking the law.

Even back when I was 30, or 32, there's no way I would have "dated" a 16 year old, even if we stuck to the literal, as opposed to euphemistic, meaning of the word, but I have a hard time getting all outraged about it. There are lots of sexual activities that some people really enjoy that I have no intention of ever doing. I just can't find it in myself to get up in arms about them. If you think it is outrageous that people have sex with sixteen year olds, lobby for a law making it illegal to have sex with sixteen year olds.

If not, meh. I find it creepy. I suppose most people do.

Quote:
Also let's not leave out the fact Moore picked up this 14 yr old in the courthouse he worked in. That is unethical on its face. And he met her a block from her house, he didn't go to the door. That is pretty good evidence he knew better.
The 14 year old is a separate case. I was only addressing the characterization of those over the age of consent as "victims". Of what?

Quote:
Just out of curiosity Meadmaker, if we went back to the old Bill Clinton threads, would we find you condemning Bill Clinton for his unethical consensual sex with a 23 yr old Monica?
No. I might have said something like "tacky", or maybe even "creepy", but no. Personal business.

Now, there were other allegations that were far more serious, because they involved non-consensual activities, but those were allegations. Substantiate them, and I would condemn Bill Clinton.

Remember the House of Representatives intern scandal? Gerry Studds and Dan Crane discovered to be boinking teenage interns. I shrugged my shoulders. No law against it. Studds got reelected. Crane, who was my congressman at the time, was defeated. Like Moore, Crane was a big "family values" guy. (That was the buzzword at the time.) The hypocrisy was what did him in.
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:49 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If something is illegal in one state, but you do the same thing in a different state, you aren't breaking the law.

Even back when I was 30, or 32, there's no way I would have "dated" a 16 year old, even if we stuck to the literal, as opposed to euphemistic, meaning of the word, but I have a hard time getting all outraged about it. There are lots of sexual activities that some people really enjoy that I have no intention of ever doing. I just can't find it in myself to get up in arms about them. If you think it is outrageous that people have sex with sixteen year olds, lobby for a law making it illegal to have sex with sixteen year olds.

If not, meh. I find it creepy. I suppose most people do.



The 14 year old is a separate case. I was only addressing the characterization of those over the age of consent as "victims". Of what?



No. I might have said something like "tacky", or maybe even "creepy", but no. Personal business.

Now, there were other allegations that were far more serious, because they involved non-consensual activities, but those were allegations. Substantiate them, and I would condemn Bill Clinton.

Remember the House of Representatives intern scandal? Gerry Studds and Dan Crane discovered to be boinking teenage interns. I shrugged my shoulders. No law against it. Studds got reelected. Crane, who was my congressman at the time, was defeated. Like Moore, Crane was a big "family values" guy. (That was the buzzword at the time.) The hypocrisy was what did him in.
That's not quite correct.

The Mann Act:

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/...oryId=88104308
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:51 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
If I had had a history of vandalising property and throwing eggs at people's houses, then it seeing me buy four dozen eggs would be suspicious.
[/indent]
The fact that he had dates with 16 and 17 year olds does, in my mind, lend credibility to the allegations that he committed lewd acts with a 14 year old, but they are still allegations.

By the way, I heard Moore himself being interviewed on Sean Hannity today, and in my not very humble opinion, the dude was lying like a rug. He didn't really remember if he dated any 16 year old girls, but he was sure he had their parents' permission. That sort of thing. I am strongly inclined to believe the woman who claims to have been 14 when he fondled her, just because he was so obviously lying about everything else in the interview.
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:53 PM   #185
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Moore might be the millstone Democrats can hang around Republican necks next fall. Maybe a few more will resign instead of risking the association with Moore and themselves. Before Dems get all indignant, they should appreciate the gift they're being given.
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Old 10th November 2017, 06:54 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I find it odd that people think it's not okay if it's perfectly consensual and legal. Why is it that some "liberals" come off as just as terrible moralists as Roy Moore?



No <snip> Did you bother reading the post article? The age of consent in Alabama is (and was) 16. Only one of the girls was under that age when he asked them out.



I'm also sure they would be. Doesn't matter if it's perfectly legal and consensual.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rule 0/12
I find it odd that you cannot understand that adult to 14 year-old relations cannot be fully consensual.
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Old 10th November 2017, 07:07 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
This strengthens the credibility of the former 14yo's account, and that is IMO the main reason the WaPo reported on these incidents.
I'm pretty sure the people at the Washington Post knew exactly what they were doing. They are not stupid, they are some of the best journalists and writers in the world.

Mentioning that he was dating teenagers wasn't objectionable by itself rather it was the way it was done. It wasn't solely to corroborate that he had been dating people at the same time, it was also about playing on the public taboo found, especially throughout the US, of age-differences in relationships especially if they happen to be with teenagers. Trying to vilify people by playing on their homosexuality in places where homophobia is common is just as terrible.

Considering the kind of unhinged people wanting his head crushed under train-wheels or some other form of senseless violence enacted upon i think they were very successful.
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Old 10th November 2017, 07:10 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I'm pretty sure the people at the Washington Post knew exactly what they were doing. They are not stupid, they are some of the best journalists and writers in the world.

Mentioning that he was dating teenagers wasn't objectionable by itself rather it was the way it was done. It wasn't solely to corroborate that he had been dating people at the same time, it was also about playing on the public taboo found, especially throughout the US, of age-differences in relationships especially if they happen to be with teenagers.

Considering the kind of unhinged people wanting his head crushed under train-wheels or some other form of senseless violence enacted upon i think they succeed in vilifying him very effectively.
How convenient, cherry pick the extreme reactions to Moore and paint him as a persecuted soul. **** off with that ****. This ******** should be in no position of public power.
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Old 10th November 2017, 07:11 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Moore might be the millstone Democrats can hang around Republican necks next fall. Maybe a few more will resign instead of risking the association with Moore and themselves. Before Dems get all indignant, they should appreciate the gift they're being given.
I think we have to be careful in what we wish for. I can remember thinking that the election of a Gohmert or King was just wonderful because it made the Crazy Wing of the GOP that much more visible. The problem is that it gives us another seat for the GOP, or two more, or even the White House.

The good thing is that this is a tight timeframe. This story will not die in thirty days. Republicans faced with a Hobson's choice may opt to stay home. I don't want Moore as another millstone (they've got Trump and Jefferson The Traitor Elf and Pence and Betsy and Rex and Clarke and Arpaio and Cruz and all those other reprehensible *****).

It's time for a good old-fashioned dirty mud-slinging campaign. Run ads in local papers challenging the religious right to live up to their supposed morality.....

Radio Ad:

Southern belle voice: Darrell, we can go to the Tompkins' barbecue after all, I found a babysitter to watch the girls.
Good old boy: That's great, sugar! Who's helpin' out?
Southern belle: Judge Roy
(sound of jug of sun tea breaking)
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Old 10th November 2017, 07:12 PM   #190
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Old 10th November 2017, 07:16 PM   #191
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What is the ratio of 30 year olds that date teenagers that you would consider well put together.

Anyone who says ,"she is mature for her age" probably isn't mature for their age.
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Old 10th November 2017, 07:29 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Radio Ad:

Southern belle voice: Darrell, we can go to the Tompkins' barbecue after all, I found a babysitter to watch the girls.
Good old boy: That's great, sugar! Who's helpin' out?
Southern belle: Judge Roy
(sound of jug of sun tea breaking)
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:24 PM   #193
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My grandfather and grandmother were something like 29 and 16 when they were courting - my grandmother had my mother at 17, about a month shy of her 18th birthday. And my grandfather was from Alabama. A lay minister. Not a powerful man, but probably more powerful than her.

I remember when a schoolteacher (male) ran off with a 14-year-old student my grandmother said they were married in the eyes of the Lord and people should leave him alone. However, she also believed that you were married in the eyes of the Lord to the first person you had sex with, and everything after that was adultery.

Something I'm curious about with Moore - did he just want to get into their pants or did he see himself as pursuing their hands in marriage?

There are so many things I dislike about this man that his attraction to 16-year-olds would not be *the* deal-breaker, but the 14-year-old is another story. I can't unsee in my imagination the image of him in his tighty whities trying to get her to feel his boner. To me, it's more pathetic than creepy, and good for her for asserting herself.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:10 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
After they forgave Trump for his pussy grabbing comments i think the people of Alabama would be perfectly fine with this.
Whadya mean "forgave him"? They loved him for it. All of these so called "traditional values" Trump's cheerleaders prattle on about is all a bunch of ********* they use to attack the weak and anyone they consider enemies.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:20 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I see it like this: the hardcore base will vote for him still because they hate Liberals winning more than their guy being a degenerate. Another faction of Republicans will continue to say they endorse him leaving him with high poll numbers.

But on election day the latter may just stay home in the way that many Republicans did in Virginia and in that case if the Democrats can just turn out the vote they could win even though polls will predict otherwise.
What makes you think they hate their guy being a degenerate at all?
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:51 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Whadya mean "forgave him"? They loved him for it. All of these so called "traditional values" Trump's cheerleaders prattle on about is all a bunch of ********* they use to attack the weak and anyone they consider enemies.
That is a fair interpretation given the hypocrisy seen repeatedly.
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Old 11th November 2017, 03:23 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I find it odd that people think it's not okay if it's perfectly consensual and legal. Why is it that some "liberals" come off as just as terrible moralists as Roy Moore?



No <snip> Did you bother reading the post article? The age of consent in Alabama is (and was) 16. Only one of the girls was under that age when he asked them out.



I'm also sure they would be. Doesn't matter if it's perfectly legal and consensual.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rule 0/12
I don't care if it was legal. I'm of the mind that teenagers can bang each other all they want. Someone twice their age getting in on the action? No. I don't approve.
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Old 11th November 2017, 03:50 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I'm pretty sure the people at the Washington Post knew exactly what they were doing. They are not stupid, they are some of the best journalists and writers in the world.

Mentioning that he was dating teenagers wasn't objectionable by itself rather it was the way it was done. It wasn't solely to corroborate that he had been dating people at the same time, it was also about playing on the public taboo found, especially throughout the US, of age-differences in relationships especially if they happen to be with teenagers. Trying to vilify people by playing on their homosexuality in places where homophobia is common is just as terrible.

Considering the kind of unhinged people wanting his head crushed under train-wheels or some other form of senseless violence enacted upon i think they were very successful.
If that's how you read the WaPo article, well who am I to second-guess your perception. It feels slightly unhinged though. Doesn't the WaPo itself point out that the other three relationships weren't illegal? That Moore didn't force or coerce them to anything? That no sex took place?

It is rather obvious in my opinion that the WaPo brings up the other teenagers mainly as an argument that strengthens the serious allegation of Statuatory Rape of a 14yo by establishing the veracity of a pattern of conduct by Moore at the time.

Where you see motives beyond that, they are on you.
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Old 11th November 2017, 07:17 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
They try to show respect and dignity to a despised minority and you still slag them off? No winning, is there?
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Old 11th November 2017, 07:27 AM   #200
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In my view Moore is guilty as accused. But 1) it happened 30 years ago, & 2) he can't be removed from the ballot, & 3) electing a Dem strengthens a party that defends these criminals: Obama, the Clintons, Holder, Lynch, Abedin, Cheryl Mills etc. &their crimes are far far worse
What are the crimes of Obama, the Clintons, Holder, Lynch, Abedin, Cheryl Mills etc.?

Apart from being Obama being Kenyan and thus ineligible to be president. And Clinton being a transvsetite murderer? And Holder being guilty of running the DoJ whilst black?

Anyone who still supports the current GOP* is a deplorable.


*Unless it is a candidate who has denounced these and has also shown by their votes or action that they condemn them.
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