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Tags 2017 elections , Alabama elections , Alabama politics , roy moore

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Old 13th November 2017, 06:59 AM   #321
logger
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Maybe sharia law would fit right in Alabama after all...
I have no doubt that respecting a persons family is the same as sharia to many on the left.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:02 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I have no doubt that respecting a persons family is the same as sharia to many on the left.
Asking a family to marry their daughter is a horrible, barbaric practice.

I don't ask your permission to go to the store. The reason is you have no role in that decision. The same is for a person deciding to marry. That is a decision exclusive to the two people involved.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:08 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I have no doubt that respecting a persons family is the same as sharia to many on the left.
So, what is it? He didn't do it, or he did do it, but that's okay because he respectfully asked their parents?
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:23 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
I'd say you have an unhealthy interest in picking up lots of underage chicks.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:25 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Asking a family to marry their daughter is a horrible, barbaric practice.

I don't ask your permission to go to the store. The reason is you have no role in that decision. The same is for a person deciding to marry. That is a decision exclusive to the two people involved.
Barbaric? That's a little extreme, isn't it?
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:25 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
asking the parents for their brides hand in marriage.
Which is obviously not what we're talking about here.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:27 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You don’t get to write the rules. If I lose the debate by default then maybe I won’t have to answer anymore stupid questions?
He didn't write the rules. You assert the facts point to one conclusion. The onus is on you to specify which facts, together with how they point to that conclusion.

This is how dialogue works.

Or you just keep saying lol and pretending that's a win.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:28 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol
I remember to post my qualifiers. :

Because it isn’t anywhere near 30 or 40. You can look it up, I already know what it is.
Then give the number with a source.

Else, your assertion means nothing in this conversation.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:29 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Dating? I wouldn’t call him asking someone out dating, oh but the accuser would call it dating, yes that’s it.
In the modern world, "dating" is used as a euphemism for "having sex with". In 1979 "dating" meant "dating", as in "going on dates" as in "asking someone out".

But there was always an implied romantic interest. When a young* man asked a young woman to join him for entertainment or food consumption, it was a way of signaling to the young woman that he wanted to jump her bones was interested in getting to know her better. That part hasn't changed since 1979, or in the centuries before that.

*Or middle aged

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Old 13th November 2017, 07:30 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Barbaric? That's a little extreme, isn't it?
It's antiquated and treats the daughter as though she's property of the father. Not barbaric but an anachronism for sure.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:31 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
It’s because you’re ignorant of the way things were done back then and still done in many Christian circles. Asking the parents permission is a sign of respect for her parents and her.
No one dating a woman in her mid-twenties does such a thing. It is evidence that he was dating quite young women.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:36 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No one dating a woman in her mid-twenties does such a thing. It is evidence that he was dating quite young women.
Yes, people do it. I did it and we were 27 and non religious.
The difference is she asked me to.

ETA: wait, you are talking dating? I meant marriage.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:37 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Which is obviously not what we're talking about here.
Why is the left so obsessed with a stupid thing like facts??!?
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:40 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

No you’re wrong again. I know plenty of older Christians asking the parents for their brides hand in marriage. Once again it’s still common practice for civilised normal people. It’s a sign of respect. Also once again I wouldn’t call asking a person out dating.
Was Mr. Moore asking these girls' hands in marriage? Why change the goal posts here? He was asking them on dates. Whether today or in 1979, the only time you asked a parents' permission to go on a date was if she lived with her parents, and it would be very, very rare even then unless she lived with her parents AND was still in high school.


To reiterate, there was no question of marriage. The fact that he remembers asking their parents' permission is corroboration that he was dating high school girls.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:41 AM   #335
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I love how conservative virtue signalling is a never ending stream of self owns.

Quote:
Numerous advertisers pulled out from Sean Hannity’s Fox News show this week after Hannity urged his viewers to treat claims Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore sexually molested minors decades ago with entirely too much skepticism. Among them were Realtor.com, 23andMe, and ELOQUII, but most notable was Keurig, which makes an eponymous brand of single-serving coffee pod machines.

Keurig moved to pull its advertising after being flagged on Twitter by Angelo Carusone of progressive group Media Matters. In response, at least a few of Hannity’s fans have lost their freaking minds and declared their intention to #BoycottKeurig.

This predictably escalated even further and now Twitter is filled with amazing videos of right-wingers smashing their costly home coffee machines. The intent is apparently to intimidate Keurig into once again sponsoring Hannity’s show, lest he fall victim to the same fate that awaited accused abuser Bill O’Reilly.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:42 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
So, what is it? He didn't do it, or he did do it, but that's okay because he respectfully asked their parents?
In addition, since we know that Moore took the young lasses to his remote cabin in order to get into their panties, which, I am quite sure was not included in the parents' permission, I don't get how abusing the parents' trust in this "good, respectable" christian DA improves his case.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:46 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, people do it. I did it and we were 27 and non religious.
The difference is she asked me to.

ETA: wait, you are talking dating? I meant marriage.
And of course, what you were doing was engaging in a quaint throwback ritual. It was all part of ancient custom that we still give a nod toward, but we don't actually respect. If her father had said no, you would have still married her. The idea that someone would actually think that a parent ought to have the right to refuse her daughter's choice of husbands is indeed, as you pointed out, barbaric.
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Old 13th November 2017, 08:29 AM   #338
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Friends, when Roy “Did He or Dinty” Moore came back into the room, clad in his tighties, his intentions were clear: he just wanted to have some cosplay fun. Him, as Captain Underpants, and her as a 14-year-old girl dressed in nothing but her bra and panties, like, y’know, a porn star. Why, it couldn’t be more innocent.

Never underestimate the power of underwear!
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Old 13th November 2017, 08:37 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Asking a family to marry their daughter is a horrible, barbaric practice.

I don't ask your permission to go to the store. The reason is you have no role in that decision. The same is for a person deciding to marry. That is a decision exclusive to the two people involved.
It happens so rarely that it's worth flagging up when I agree with Bob.

'Asking permission' is a horrible practice.
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Old 13th November 2017, 08:48 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I have no doubt that respecting a persons family is the same as sharia to many on the left.
The "respect" or "honor" that you're referring to is the exact kind of barbaric notion that leads to parents throwing their children off of balconies for bringing disrepute onto their family name.

Those ignorant fools and gap toothed yokels than still adhere to such notions, and take upon themselves the right to dictate their children's lives as if they were property, even though they are old enough to take responsibility for themselves, have more in common with the Muslims they so hate than not.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:29 AM   #341
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LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) — Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell: Roy Moore "should step aside" in light of sexual contact allegations with girl.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:31 AM   #342
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The BBC mentions #MeAt14, which I guess is a social media push back on the idea that a 14 year old can consent:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41967461

I fear that Moore supporters will take this the wrong way.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:48 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Link.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:16 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The BBC mentions #MeAt14, which I guess is a social media push back on the idea that a 14 year old can consent:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41967461

I fear that Moore supporters will take this the wrong way.
What, as a way to find dates?
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:21 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
.... The really serious charge, the one about the 14 year old, that one is uncorroborated, and I'm reluctant to declare him guilty without corroboration. ...
So you dismiss her friends who said they knew about it at the time? And she described his house having a gravel driveway and being a 30 minute drive which was correct.

More people are coming forward today who knew about Corfman's story.

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Old 13th November 2017, 10:24 AM   #346
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http://wiat.com/2017/11/13/another-r...e-was-a-minor/

Famed attorney Gloria Allred says she and a new accuser who alleges Roy Moore sexually assaulted her as a minor will hold a press conference Monday afternoon.

According to the release from Allred’s office, she and the new accuser will speak in the Lotte New York Palace Hotel. Allred says the woman wants to state what she alleged Moore did to her without consent.



There goes the ****** "it's not true because if it were really true more people would be stepping forward" argument
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:25 AM   #347
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#BoycottKeurig
Smash the item you already own.
Keurig already has your money.
Plato, Aristotle, people smashing an item they already own and the company they want to boycott already has their money? Morons.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:28 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
#BoycottKeurig
Smash the item you already own.
Keurig already has your money.
Plato, Aristotle, people smashing an item they already own and the company they want to boycott already has their money? Morons.
Just a guess, but keurig probably makes more money on people buying k-cups than the actual brewer.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:33 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
#BoycottKeurig
Smash the item you already own.
Keurig already has your money.
Plato, Aristotle, people smashing an item they already own and the company they want to boycott already has their money? Morons.
Sean Hannity is buying 500 of them to give away so his fans can smash them. Nothing self-owns like conservative virtue signalling.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:36 AM   #350
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Is anyone (e.g. Logger) actually denying that Moore dated teenage girls when he was in his 30s? Moore's own words are just as damning as the accusations, straight from the OJ "if I did it" playbook...
Hannity: Would it be unusual for you as a 32 year old guy to have dated a woman as young as 17? ... Do you remember dating girls that young at the time?

Moore: Not generally, no. If I did, you know, I'm not going to dispute anything, but I don't remember anything like that.
The only way it could be made any clearer that Moore is lying is if he had a sign around his neck that said I'm lying.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:36 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Sean Hannity is buying 500 of them to give away so his fans can smash them. Nothing self-owns like conservative virtue signalling.
That's not what that tweet says. He's saying he's bought 500 from a different company and will give them away to the people who post the best videos of them smashing their already-owned Kreuig ones.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:49 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So you dismiss her friends who said they knew about it at the time? And she described his house having a gravel driveway and being a 30 minute drive which was correct.

More people are coming forward today who knew about Corfman's story.
These things take time. I don't follow it all that closely. It's all over the news, so you can't miss it, and I happened to hear his Hannity interview the other day, which was, all by itself, enough to convince me he was a lying creep.

As more corroboration comes forward, Moore will have to change his story, or forget a few more things.

I'm strongly inclined to believe the woman who says he felt her up at 14, but "strongly inclined to believe" just means that I find the allegation credible, but it's still an allegation.

What worries me is that it is so easy to make up allegations, or to embellish things that have a grain of truth with something beyond what really happened, and turn something that is completely innocent, or mostly innocent, into something more damning.

I have been involved with several youth related activities for which I had to take youth protection training. (Scouting, robotics, sports) They all emphasized that under no circumstances should you ever be alone with an underage person. This was, of course, to protect the child, but they knew that the vast majority of people taking the training were people who had no inclination or interest in molesting children/teens. The training always emphasized that one of the most important reasons to follow the "2 deep" guidelines was that it protects the adult from false accusations, because false accusations are often made, and sometimes believed.

So, based on what I have read so far, the story about the 14 year old is unverified. I tend to believe it, but that's a different story. I'm not extremely confident in that belief. That might change if I read more.

On the other hand, I think the stories about the teenagers who were at least 16 have been proved to my satisfaction. The dude was dating high school girls.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:52 AM   #353
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Wink

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
http://wiat.com/2017/11/13/another-r...e-was-a-minor/

Famed attorney Gloria Allred says she and a new accuser who alleges Roy Moore sexually assaulted her as a minor will hold a press conference Monday afternoon.

According to the release from Allred’s office, she and the new accuser will speak in the Lotte New York Palace Hotel. Allred says the woman wants to state what she alleged Moore did to her without consent.



There goes the ****** "it's not true because if it were really true more people would be stepping forward" argument
Yep, now it's a "too many are coming forward" argument
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:56 AM   #354
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Gloria Allred getting involved might help Moore.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:58 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yep, now it's a "too many are coming forward" argument
Too much evidence of his guilt means he's innocent.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:59 AM   #356
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His former colleagues at the time seem to think they all knew he was dating high school girls. So take from that what you want of the DA's office there.
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Old 13th November 2017, 11:07 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Sean Hannity is buying 500 of them to give away so his fans can smash them. Nothing self-owns like conservative virtue signalling.
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's not what that tweet says. He's saying he's bought 500 from a different company and will give them away to the people who post the best videos of them smashing their already-owned Kreuig ones.
Ugh. You made me go look at Hannity's Twitter. I need a shower.
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Old 13th November 2017, 11:08 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's not what that tweet says. He's saying he's bought 500 from a different company and will give them away to the people who post the best videos of them smashing their already-owned Kreuig ones.
You're right. That's slightly better?
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Old 13th November 2017, 11:08 AM   #359
kookbreaker
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
These things take time. I don't follow it all that closely. It's all over the news, so you can't miss it, and I happened to hear his Hannity interview the other day, which was, all by itself, enough to convince me he was a lying creep.

As more corroboration comes forward, Moore will have to change his story, or forget a few more things.

I'm strongly inclined to believe the woman who says he felt her up at 14, but "strongly inclined to believe" just means that I find the allegation credible, but it's still an allegation.

What worries me is that it is so easy to make up allegations, or to embellish things that have a grain of truth with something beyond what really happened, and turn something that is completely innocent, or mostly innocent, into something more damning.

I have been involved with several youth related activities for which I had to take youth protection training. (Scouting, robotics, sports) They all emphasized that under no circumstances should you ever be alone with an underage person. This was, of course, to protect the child, but they knew that the vast majority of people taking the training were people who had no inclination or interest in molesting children/teens. The training always emphasized that one of the most important reasons to follow the "2 deep" guidelines was that it protects the adult from false accusations, because false accusations are often made, and sometimes believed.

So, based on what I have read so far, the story about the 14 year old is unverified. I tend to believe it, but that's a different story. I'm not extremely confident in that belief. That might change if I read more.

On the other hand, I think the stories about the teenagers who were at least 16 have been proved to my satisfaction. The dude was dating high school girls.
While I get what you are saying, I find that the allegations are much more credible in my mind since Moore's 'denials' have been so painfully weak. I'd expect much more of a "what?! no!" reaction than what we are seeing.
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Old 13th November 2017, 11:12 AM   #360
crescent
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In it's efforts to discredit the story, Breitbart ended up confirming some of the facts alleged by the story.

Breitbart tried to help Roy Moore, but bolstered Washington Post reporting instead


Quote:
But all the Breitbart story found was that Leigh Corfman, who accused Moore of making sexual advances toward her when she was 14, did not have her own, personal telephone in her room, as she recalled with journalists from the Post.

Breitbart later reported that the Post "worked to convinced [Corfman] to give an interview" about her interactions with Moore years ago. A bizarre tidbit, considering they were only confirming the Post's reporting. The Washington Post already informed its readers that it sought out the accusers, rather than them coming forward unprompted.
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