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Old 12th November 2017, 06:45 PM   #41
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
The whole ideology of liberalism is based on emotion, an inconvenient fact.
Yes, if only liberals had the same rigid adherence to facts as conservatives.
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Old 12th November 2017, 06:50 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes, if only liberals had the same rigid adherence to facts as conservatives.
I suppose finding one video that I certainly would be bored watching is supposed to negate the fact that liberalism is based on emotion?
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Old 12th November 2017, 06:52 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
The existence of global warming, anthropogenic in cause, is the scientific consensus.

Ditto on evolution.

Debating the science of these things is, well, science. Not politics.
Hellooo, we aren’t debating the science of it, we are debating the politics of it!
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Old 12th November 2017, 06:58 PM   #44
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Denying reality is not a political decision. It is a personal flaw.

Debating whether something is real according to science belongs in science.

According to scientific consensus, anthropogenic global warming is real, as is evolution.
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Old 12th November 2017, 07:52 PM   #45
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Modern day Republicans absolutely thrive on the emotions of fear and anger; their propaganda relies heavily on scapegoating the usual bogeymen: Muslims, Illegal Immigrants, Welfare Queens, and, of course, Libtards. (I'm sure I've left many out).
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Old 12th November 2017, 07:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Modern day Republicans absolutely thrive on the emotions of fear and anger; their propaganda relies heavily on scapegoating the usual bogeymen: Muslims, Illegal Immigrants, Welfare Queens, and, of course, Libtards. (I'm sure I've left many out).
Lol
Thatís because the left is so easy to manipulate by their emotions.
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Old 12th November 2017, 07:59 PM   #47
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??? Republicans being manipulated by fear mongering and anger inducing right wing propaganda has nothing to do with what may or may not manipulate left wingers.

Is your reading comprehension functional?
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Denying reality is not a political decision. It is a personal flaw.
Lol
A personal flaw, every human being alive denies reality in some way
Quote:
Debating whether something is real according to science belongs in science.
Lol
Unless it is so heavily politicized by emotional people that demands a political solution?
Quote:
According to scientific consensus, anthropogenic global warming is real, as is evolution.
Until the new consensus comes along. Meanwhile, they want a political answer.
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
??? Republicans being manipulated by fear mongering and anger inducing right wing propaganda has nothing to do with what may or may not manipulate left wingers.

Is your reading comprehension functional?
Well your post was so fun I thought I’d join in. I don’t know any republicans who fear all the bogeymen you just posted, they’re just tired of paying for them.

Last edited by logger; 12th November 2017 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:08 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Well your post was so fun I thought Iíd join in. I donít know any republicans who fear all the bogeymen you just posted, theyíre just tired of paying for them.
Well, that would be the anger part.

And it's a demonstrable fact that many Republicans (perhaps you don't know them personally) fear some of these bogeymen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYAfQURHROI

Just one of many documented cases of this phenomenon.

QED
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Well, that would be the anger part.

And it's a demonstrable fact that many Republicans (perhaps you don't know them personally) fear some of these bogeymen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYAfQURHROI

Just one of many documented cases of this phenomenon.

QED
Lol

That settles it, we on the right are all in fear of ISIS killing us. Thatís the best bit of critical thinking Iíve seen this week!
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:39 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

That settles it, we on the right are all in fear of ISIS killing us. Thatís the best bit of critical thinking Iíve seen this week!
A significant portion are--Or, at least were, when President Obama was demonized through right wing propaganda fomenting the usual fear and anger against him. After all, remember--He FOUNDED ISIS. Trump said so himself.

Just like right wing propaganda has promoted fear and anger against the NFL, mainstream media, or our liberal-infiltrated public school system.


It's really quite pervasive, and you're either blind or disingenuous if you say you don't see it.
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:58 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
A significant portion are--Or, at least were, when President Obama was demonized through right wing propaganda fomenting the usual fear and anger against him. After all, remember--He FOUNDED ISIS. Trump said so himself.
You donít understand why he said that do you?
Quote:
Just like right wing propaganda has promoted fear and anger against the NFL, mainstream media, or our liberal-infiltrated public school system.
That was just anger.

Quote:
It's really quite pervasive, and you're either blind or disingenuous if you say you don't see it.
Couldnít be any other way could it? Lol
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:17 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You donít understand why he said that do you?
Well it's a side point (the main point being the fear mongering Republicans engage in regarding Islamic terrorism, which is quite obvious to see, really) but: What do you think he meant? I think it was a simple emotional appeal to anger.

Quote:
That was just anger.
You are quite right. That's why I said "fear and anger" to begin with. I'm glad you're at least beginning to see the light.


Quote:
Couldnít be any other way could it? Lol
I'm not aware of any other explanation that fits my observations. Have you got one?
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:28 PM   #55
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Or, for more examples of right wing anger and fear mongering, simply witness any of the recent NRA spots featuring Dana Loesch.

Now, to be clear: When I say "fear and anger"--Sometimes it's just fear, sometimes it's just anger (and you've already acknowledged this one), and sometimes it's a combination of the two.

And I absolutely stand by my claim: If you don't see right wing propaganda preying on the twin emotions of fear and anger, you're either not paying attention or you're being disingenuous.
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:44 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post

And I absolutely stand by my claim: If you don't see right wing propaganda preying on the twin emotions of fear and anger, you're either not paying attention or you're being disingenuous.
I wouldnít expect you to stand on anything else!
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Old 12th November 2017, 10:41 PM   #57
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Usually, the persons with the better intelligence has the upper hand; in this case, it is the person who uses the better intelligence instead of ignoring it.
Notably, companies are very aware of actual facts that can impact the bottom line, as is the military.
Politicians can often get away with fantasies because they only have to plan until the next election, not the next decade or century.
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Old 13th November 2017, 01:31 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I wouldnít expect you to stand on anything else!
And, as I expected, you are no longer able to support your own position.
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Old 13th November 2017, 06:47 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
And, as I expected, you are no longer able to support your own position.
Actually itís a lost cause, Iím not going to waste time trying to convince you. Iím not interested in doing that with liberals, Iíd rather them stay where they are.
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Old 13th November 2017, 06:51 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Modern day Republicans absolutely thrive on the emotions of fear and anger; their propaganda relies heavily on scapegoating the usual bogeymen: Muslims, Illegal Immigrants, Welfare Queens, and, of course, Libtards. (I'm sure I've left many out).
Here is your bit of unhinged thinking. How is anyone going to explain these issues to a person who says that? Clearly everything from the right is about fear to you. Iím only in it to have some fun with your emotions.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:03 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I suppose finding one video that I certainly would be bored watching is supposed to negate the fact that liberalism is based on emotion?
While I agree on the value of a Youtube link, fear, which is often used by the right, is also an emotion.

Both sides use emotions. Too much, that's the problem.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:04 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I suppose finding one video that I certainly would be bored watching is supposed to negate the fact that liberalism is based on emotion?
Liberalism is based on fact and reason. The emotion comes into play when you people refuse to acknowledge basic common knowledge.

Its frustration in the impenetrable brick wall that comes between the edge of a conservative skull and that gelatinous mess that is supposed to pass for a brain on the other side of the skull.
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Old 13th November 2017, 07:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Well your post was so fun I thought Iíd join in. I donít know any republicans who fear all the bogeymen you just posted
Really? Remember how gay marriage was going to turn people gay? Or how allowing trans people to choose the restroom they want would allow perverts to molest women in those restrooms? Or how mexicans are stealing your jobs? That's fear and anger. Emotions. As you said, everyone has that flaw.
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Old 13th November 2017, 08:20 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Evidence?

You really think people will not want a fast and convenient ride from one city to another?
The problem with "high speed rail" it that people already have a fast an convenient ride from LA to SF. High speed rail will be slower and less convenient, it wont actually be high speed either. It was sold to CA on a lie, that it would cost 30billion but independent estimates said it would be 90, surprisingly shortly after the bonds were passed, the official estimate was raised to 90billion.

Its now being planned based on the sunk cost fallacy. The are building the first leg between two cities in the central valley that nobody actually want's a fast and convenient ride between. But when they've got that built, they come back to the people for more money and saying, We've built this much already.

They treat funding like they do water. In good times they have plenty so the spend profligately then bad times hit and they teeter ever closer to bankruptcy. The unfunded pension liability will bankrupt the state, its just a matter of time. That is directly related to left wing denial of reality. They haven't built any water storage in 20-30 years, in the same amount of time, the population has doubled.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:19 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Actually itís a lost cause, Iím not going to waste time trying to convince you. Iím not interested in doing that with liberals, Iíd rather them stay where they are.
It's always more comfortable inside your bubble. Indeed, it can be quite frightening for many to step outside of it.

Those pesky emotions again.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:25 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Or, for more examples of right wing anger and fear mongering, simply witness any of the recent NRA spots featuring Dana Loesch.

Now, to be clear: When I say "fear and anger"--Sometimes it's just fear, sometimes it's just anger (and you've already acknowledged this one), and sometimes it's a combination of the two.

And I absolutely stand by my claim: If you don't see right wing propaganda preying on the twin emotions of fear and anger, you're either not paying attention or you're being disingenuous.
Tu toque

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/va-at...ry?id=50821176

Dems mong fear just as easily as Reps.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:34 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Tu toque

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/va-at...ry?id=50821176

Dems mong fear just as easily as Reps.
I actually thought that ad was a parody of liberals made by conservatives when I first saw it (didn't have any context at the time). I'll readily admit that no one side has a monopoly on manipulating people using fear and hate. I happen to think that Republicans are doing a better job of it right now because of how well they performed last November. No way to predict how that will play out going forward.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:37 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Tu toque

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/va-at...ry?id=50821176

Dems mong fear just as easily as Reps.
You miss my point.

I never claimed liberals can't be or aren't manipulated through emotion.. Logger, on the other hand, seems to imply that reasoning through emotion is a uniquely liberal behavior.

Logger is wrong--Susceptibility to emotions is damn near universal among people.

That is my point.
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Old 13th November 2017, 09:40 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
You miss my point.

I never claimed liberals can't be or aren't manipulated through emotion.. Logger, on the other hand, seems to imply that reasoning through emotion is a uniquely liberal behavior.

Logger is wrong--Susceptibility to emotions is damn near universal among people.

That is my point.
I certainly did miss your point then, sorry about that.

Edit to add,

The evidence is pretty clear actually. Almost everybody comes to conclusions based on emotional responses driven by deep seated predispositions and then looks for evidence to justify those conclusions. Almost nobody looks at the evidence and then decides what is the correct policy. The best we can hope for is that we can overcome our original choice when the evidence mounts against it, even that is rare. Which, in my opinion, is the whole point of skepticism. It takes hard work to overcome bias and we should all acknowledge that and that we aren't always aware of our biases.

Last edited by ahhell; 13th November 2017 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:04 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
My crack pot hypothesis is that there are a couple of issues that really hit to the heart of some conservatives world view where the nonscience of the left is more on the fringe of their thought. Fundies are conservatives, fundies believe bible is literally true, therefore **** science. Global warming has weaseled its way into this for the pro-business right.

Alt-Med and GMOs just don't get to the core of the a liberals world view in the same way.
Indeed. Creationism, climate change denial (and general anti-environmentalism), trickle-down economics, abstinence only education, etc. are all common among elected conservative politicians.

Are there anti-science views that are common among elected liberals? I'm hard pressed to think of any.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:07 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Indeed. Creationism, climate change denial (and general anti-environmentalism), trickle-down economics, abstinence only education, etc. are all common among elected conservative politicians.

Are there anti-science views that are common among elected liberals? I'm hard pressed to think of any.
Alt med and anti vax are often held up as such, though many of the biggest name supporters of those are on the right side of the aisle.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:22 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Alt med and anti vax are often held up as such, though many of the biggest name supporters of those are on the right side of the aisle.
Here in SoCal the anti-GMO movement seems very firmly left wing. I hear the word Monsanto used as a bogeyman in a manner reminiscent of the way the alt-right uses the name Soros. Nationwide, though, it seems like there are plenty of folks on the right who are anti-GMO. I know Alex Jones has ranted about that sort of thing.
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Old 13th November 2017, 01:13 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
While it no doubt crosses party lines and there are plenty of 'liberal' nutters, the GOP does seem to have climbed in bed with the science denial crowd.
Don't you mean the neoliberals who hijacked the GOP? Oh an btw: You you would be very naive to think that these neoliberals are in bed with the denialist nutters by the crap they spew. Be sure it is simply a obfuscation strategy developed by "the merchants of doubt". The think tanks that come up with this stuff are paid to write these denialist fictions. They know they are BS from the start. In fact they even have ai programs spewing out variations of each denialist argument! The idea is to so cloud the online environment with meaningless chaff that anyone attempting to target them hits the chaff cloud instead of them.

You can be sure though, these people pulling the strings are neither conservative nor classical liberals.
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Old 13th November 2017, 02:38 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
While I agree on the value of a Youtube link, fear, which is often used by the right, is also an emotion.

Both sides use emotions. Too much, that's the problem.
The highlighted part is the important partl

If you don't have emotion, then you can't function. You can't decide whether it is worthwhile to cause some minor inconvenience that will save a thousand lives.
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Old 13th November 2017, 02:46 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It's fine to debate, say, how much tax money should be spent reducing CO emissions, or how big a reduction industries should be required to pay for; it's ridiculous to claim that climate change is just a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese.
Is CO the primary issue or CO2?
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Old 13th November 2017, 04:02 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Is CO the primary issue or CO2?
Of course it's CO2. Insert 2 as needed.
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Old 13th November 2017, 04:14 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Really? Remember how gay marriage was going to turn people gay? Or how allowing trans people to choose the restroom they want would allow perverts to molest women in those restrooms? Or how mexicans are stealing your jobs? That's fear and anger. Emotions. As you said, everyone has that flaw.
Really? I donít remember any of that. The definition of marriage is man and women.
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Old 13th November 2017, 04:15 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
It's always more comfortable inside your bubble. Indeed, it can be quite frightening for many to step outside of it.

Those pesky emotions again.
Well, when you can offer up proof on such a subjective issue? For now your opinion is just that.
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Old 13th November 2017, 04:16 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
You miss my point.

I never claimed liberals can't be or aren't manipulated through emotion.. Logger, on the other hand, seems to imply that reasoning through emotion is a uniquely liberal behavior.

Logger is wrong--Susceptibility to emotions is damn near universal among people.

That is my point.
Lol
Your point was that anything right was fear and anger.
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Old 13th November 2017, 04:17 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Alt med and anti vax are often held up as such, though many of the biggest name supporters of those are on the right side of the aisle.
Except when you add in the hippie left, nice try.
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