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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 2nd December 2019, 03:46 PM   #1921
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Cult that defines Trump's power is just a few scratches away from the surface in Australia

Quote:
Mostly what Scott Morrison has adopted from Trump is the arrogance and utter refusal to concede error even in the face of overwhelming evidence

This week Rick Perry, former governor of Texas and Donald Trump’s energy secretary, told Fox News that he believed Trump was “the chosen one” – chosen by God to lead the United States.

Also this week we saw yet another example of Trump supporters being interviewed. These people told Fox News they supported Trump because “it’s really quite simple ... Family values, honesty, integrity, character and that is everything that president Trump represents.”

Not even anyone in Trump’s own family would honestly think Trump has family values. But then no one in Trump’s family would ever have the integrity to honestly state that Trump’s character is the complete anathema to traditional family values.

And yet here we are. A man who has not only been accused of rape and sexual misconduct by multiple women, and who paid Stormy Daniels to keep quiet about his infidelity, but who has also been found to have used his charity to boost his own election campaign is seen as some kind of salt of the earth type.

The chosen one of God.

It is time – nay, well past time – to realise the Republican party is no longer a political party: it is a cult. And given the policies pursued by Trump do harm to low income earners and the planet as a whole, it is a death cult.

The big problem for us is that inevitably the conservatives in Australia follow the lead of the US.
A good read, and a reminder that we in this thread aren't the only ones concerned.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 05:07 PM   #1922
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Jacquie Lambie just cried in Parliament as she made a speech explaining that she couldn't say why she's voting for the Medevac repeal because of national security reasons.

There is fury in the chamber.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 05:28 PM   #1923
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And the medevac repeal is passed. This vote will kill people.

A summary from Stirling Griff of the Centre Alliance:

Quote:
A government that has no empathy for people in need of critical medical care is a government that doesn’t deserve to govern.

This repeal is all about a government desperate for a win - any win - ahead of the summer break.

Prior to Medevac there were many deaths in detention. There have been none since Medevac came into force.

This repeal will damage lives. It is a heartless action that shows complete disdain for humanity.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 07:04 PM   #1924
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Jacquie Lambie just cried in Parliament as she made a speech explaining that she couldn't say why she's voting for the Medevac repeal because of national security reasons.

There is fury in the chamber.
I had some sympathy for Lambie...up until this bastard act. Cry all you want, Jacquie. I expected this sort of behaviour from dead-***** like Dutton. But this was a low and cruel act you enabled, and you are refusing to justify why to the public you supposedly serve. Shame on you.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 07:44 PM   #1925
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Bizzare! Senator Lambie claims that the government agreed to a secret deal in return for her support of the Medivac repeal bill while Mathias Cormann denies it emphatically.
Quote:
"I put up to the Government a proposal to work with me on to secure my support for the passage of the repeal of medevac," Senator Lambie said.

"I'm not being coy or silly when I say I genuinely can't say what I proposed.
Quote:
"Let me just make the most important point right up front — there is no secret deal," the Government's leader in the Senate, Mathias Cormann, told the Parliament.

"Let me repeat that again. There is no secret deal."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-...epeal/11745704

Clearly, one of them is telling a bald faced lie to parliament.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:51 PM   #1926
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Bizzare! Senator Lambie claims that the government agreed to a secret deal in return for her support of the Medivac repeal bill while Mathias Cormann denies it emphatically.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-...epeal/11745704

Clearly, one of them is telling a bald faced lie to parliament.
Or it could be both of them.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 11:21 PM   #1927
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Everyone's talking about a "secret deal". Lambie has never said she had a "secret deal". She said that she's been in communication with the Libs, and after that she decided to support the repeal for what she said were reasons of national security. Calling it a "secret deal" makes the whole thing sound a lot more sinister.

Yeah, it was a terrible thing to do, but she was very upset about it so clearly she did it for reasons that she saw as important. And people are demonising her for it. She must have known that was going to happen.

And yet, people are going to die because of it, so despite all that I can't muster much sympathy for her.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 11:24 PM   #1928
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Duplicate post for no reason.
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Old 4th December 2019, 04:51 AM   #1929
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Or it could be both of them.
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Old 4th December 2019, 04:11 PM   #1930
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Senator Lambie and Mathias Cormann psion. I know Norman should have kept it really, really, simple for your sake.
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Old 4th December 2019, 07:34 PM   #1931
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Senator Lambie and Mathias Cormann psion. I know Norman should have kept it really, really, simple for your sake.
LOL one says "yes" and the other says "no" and you call me the stupid one for not believing that they are both lying?
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Old 4th December 2019, 08:02 PM   #1932
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Senator Lambie and Mathias Cormann psion. I know Norman should have kept it really, really, simple for your sake.
Thank you, yes. And I thought I did. But I will have to try harder next time.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
LOL one says "yes" and the other says "no" and you call me the stupid one for not believing that they are both lying?
Please don't be dense. You are not very convincing at it.
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Old 4th December 2019, 08:10 PM   #1933
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Please don't be dense. You are not very convincing at it.
Dunning and Kruger would be proud of both of you.
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Old 4th December 2019, 08:17 PM   #1934
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To be fair, it's hard to see how both could simultaneously be false.
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Old 4th December 2019, 10:07 PM   #1935
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Dunning and Kruger would be proud of both of you.
OK, I'll spell it out for you. I shouldn't have to, but...

1. Lambie could have been lying saying it was some "Can't Say security deal" to get her support. It could have been some other reason entirely - plenty of logical alternatives abound, ranging from personal political gain to forcing the government's hand with a New Zealand extradition.

2. Corman could have been lying saying there was no "Can't Say security deal". There could very well have been a deal, just not the sooper-secret one described by Lambie in the media.

So there you are. Both could have lied.
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Old 5th December 2019, 12:29 AM   #1936
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
OK, I'll spell it out for you. I shouldn't have to, but...

1. Lambie could have been lying saying it was some "Can't Say security deal" to get her support. It could have been some other reason entirely - plenty of logical alternatives abound, ranging from personal political gain to forcing the government's hand with a New Zealand extradition.

2. Corman could have been lying saying there was no "Can't Say security deal". There could very well have been a deal, just not the sooper-secret one described by Lambie in the media.

So there you are. Both could have lied.
In your scenario, Cormann would be telling the truth.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:55 PM   #1937
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Hi Aussies.

Anyone know about this business?

Discovery of man tried and imprisoned in secret puts secrecy laws back on the agenda 10 years after last review

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The fluke discovery of a man tried and imprisoned in secret has prompted a call for Government to revisit reform of secrecy law, almost 10 years since the last major investigation occurred.

An ACT court judgment handed down earlier this month concerning the treatment of a man in prison obliquely revealed he had been tried and imprisoned in secret.

Law Council of Australia president Arthur Moses SC said open justice was one of the fundamental attributes of a fair trial.

"The Law Council believes a thorough review of all existing secrecy offences across federal legislation should be conducted," he said.

Mr Moses said any review should expand on the work undertaken by the Australian Law Reform Commission for its report, Secrecy Laws and Open Government in Australia.

March next year represents the 10-year anniversary of that report, the result of a 15-month inquiry that identified 506 secrecy provisions in 176 pieces of Commonwealth legislation, including 358 criminal secrecy offences.

"Secrecy or suppression is only ever appropriate where the rare exceptions to open justice have been appropriately considered and applied," Mr Moses said.
Are they claiming the need for secrecy due to national security reasons? I wonder what the alleged crime was?

It sounds a bit like in China, where a person can simply "disappear" without any sort of public acknowledgement by authorities that the person is in custody or what the alleged crime was.
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Old 5th December 2019, 09:01 PM   #1938
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I started a thread about it in Trials and Errors. Hang on, I'll go get the link.

Here you go:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=340732
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Old 5th December 2019, 09:58 PM   #1939
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Thanks. I'll direct further inquiries to that thread.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:15 PM   #1940
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Old 9th December 2019, 06:14 PM   #1941
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Controversial religious discrimination bill overhauled as Government releases new draft

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The Federal Government has overhauled its proposed religious discrimination laws in an effort to win over faith leaders who rebuked the Coalition's earlier attempts.

Attorney-General Christian Porter outlined 11 changes to the draft bill, which the Government opted against introducing to Parliament last month after facing criticism from religious and groups advocating for racial and sexual equality, and for those with disabilities.

As flagged, the new bill will allow religious bodies — such as hospitals and aged care providers — to continue to hire people on the basis of their religion.
This is the bit that's bothering me:

Quote:
The Coalition has also changed health practitioner laws, which narrows the health professions to medicine, midwifery, nursing, pharmacy and psychology.

These workers could object to carrying out procedures that were against their faith but they could not object to treating a patient based on that patient's faith.
What does this mean? It means that they can't be forced to perform an abortion if their religion says they can't, clearly, but does the second part mean that they're not allowed to save a patient's life by giving them a blood transfusion if that patient's religion says that they can't receive it?
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:48 PM   #1942
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
What does this mean? It means that they can't be forced to perform an abortion if their religion says they can't, clearly, but does the second part mean that they're not allowed to save a patient's life by giving them a blood transfusion if that patient's religion says that they can't receive it?
I don't know if that will be the case but it bothers me that you believe that doctors should override the wishes of informed patients.
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:50 PM   #1943
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I don't know if that will be the case but it bothers me that you believe that doctors should override the wishes of informed patients.
I didn't say that I did. That's you assuming.
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:56 PM   #1944
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I didn't say that I did. That's you assuming.
You are the one who mentioned "not allowed to save a patient's life by giving them a blood transfusion if that patient's religion says that they can't receive it". Why would you do so if you didn't disagree with it?
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:58 PM   #1945
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You are the one who mentioned "not allowed to save a patient's life by giving them a blood transfusion if that patient's religion says that they can't receive it". Why would you do so if you didn't disagree with it?
I was asking whether that's what the draft legislation means. Because it seemed ambiguous to me.

Anyway, LGBT groups have denounced the new draft as "worse than the first", so I'm not expending a lot of effort on it.
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Old 10th December 2019, 06:31 PM   #1946
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I'll expend this though:

Vinnies refuses to be 'used' to promote Coalition's new religious discrimination bill

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St Vincent de Paul Society says it has no need to discriminate against prospective staff based on religion


The St Vincent de Paul Society has asked not to be “used” to promote a new Coalition proposal to allow “public benevolent institutions” to discriminate against prospective staff based on religion, stating that it has no need to do so for its commercial activities.

While unveiling a suite of changes to the government’s religious discrimination bill on Tuesday, attorney general Christian Porter cited Vinnies – a lay Catholic organisation which runs charity op-shops – as an example of an institution that would benefit from extending exemptions to allow religious organisations to preserve their “religious ethos”.

The new bill provoked a mixed reaction – it was praised by conservative religious groups, cautiously welcomed by employer groups which want further changes, and denounced by human rights, LGBTI groups and the Greens, which all warned it increases religious bodies’ powers to discriminate.
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Old 11th December 2019, 12:58 AM   #1947
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It appears that to function in society some religious organisations need to do things that would be illegal for similar non religious organisations to do.
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