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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 8th March 2020, 12:57 PM   #201
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
What would you count as evidence? If I posted a sourced quote from a real MD saying that Joe Biden likely has dementia would that count as evidence?
That would certainly help. But I'd need to know on what he's basing his statement, what his qualifications are, etc.

The following former candidates, all having interacted with Biden, have endorsed him for POTUS. Do you seriously think they believe Biden has dementia?

Sen. Kamala Harris
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Gov. Deval Patrick
Rep. John Delaney
Mayor Michael Bloomberg
Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Rep. Beto O'Rourke
Rep. Seth Moulton
Rep. Tim Ryan
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:05 PM   #202
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That would certainly help. But I'd need to know on what he's basing his statement, what his qualifications are, etc.
His qualifications are that he is a Geriatric psychiatrist with expertise in dementia. If I provide the sourced quote, will you admit that this is evidence?

Quote:
The following former candidates, all having interacted with Biden, have endorsed him for POTUS. Do you seriously think they believe Biden has dementia?

Sen. Kamala Harris
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Gov. Deval Patrick
Rep. John Delaney
Mayor Michael Bloomberg
Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Rep. Beto O'Rourke
Rep. Seth Moulton
Rep. Tim Ryan
I would bet that some of them suspect it. Do you really think that would prevent them from endorsing a candidate?
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:09 PM   #203
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Does it matter, if it gets Trump out of office?

Who would you rather have as president? Dementia Joe or Crazy Donald?

At least Dementia Joe's cabinet could be trusted to apply a 25th Amendment solution and keep the country on track. Seems like there's all kinds of good reasons for good Democrats to downplay Biden's limits in the middle of election season.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:10 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Just another part of the misinformation campaign coming from Russia.
I never said it was coming from Russia; I merely wondered as the memo presents itself as being an official campaign communique but the Sanders campaign had disavowed it. So if the Sanders campaign isn't behind it, who is?

Do you want to claim that Russia isn't engaging in a misinformation campaign directed at the election? If you aren't, then why isn't it quite possible that this is part of that campaign? As we already know, Russia was behind the Crowdstrike DNC server-Ukraine hoax.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:16 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
His qualifications are that he is a Geriatric psychiatrist with expertise in dementia. If I provide the sourced quote, will you admit that this is evidence?
I'd be happy to see it. Please do so.


Quote:
I would bet that some of them suspect it
.

Then I suggest you refrain from gambling.

Quote:
Do you really think that would prevent them from endorsing a candidate?
Why, yes. Yes, I do. You are seriously claiming that all these people would knowingly endorse someone with dementia for POTUS? Unbelievable.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:31 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That would certainly help. But I'd need to know on what he's basing his statement, what his qualifications are, etc.

The following former candidates, all having interacted with Biden, have endorsed him for POTUS. Do you seriously think they believe Biden has dementia?

Sen. Kamala Harris
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Gov. Deval Patrick
Rep. John Delaney
Mayor Michael Bloomberg
Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Rep. Beto O'Rourke
Rep. Seth Moulton
Rep. Tim Ryan
I seriously believe it wouldn't matter to them whether he was compos mentis or not. He could be a drooling vegetable and they'd endorse him just to preserve party unity. The only alternative is Sanders and his socialism.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Why, yes. Yes, I do. You are seriously claiming that all these people would knowingly endorse someone with dementia for POTUS? Unbelievable.
Look at how many people knowingly endorsed Trump.

Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 8th March 2020 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:38 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Why, yes. Yes, I do. You are seriously claiming that all these people would knowingly endorse someone with dementia for POTUS? Unbelievable.
What of Reaganís second run and term?
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:39 PM   #208
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I'm pretty sure Biden meant that only a mainstream lifelong Democrat can defeat Trump, not people who sometimes have and "R" or "I" after their name. Trump similarly utters sentences that get away from him completely, but probably not as politically suicidable.

Heightened visibility is probably not going to help him, but he will be getting some high-octane surrogates on his team.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:43 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I never said it was coming from Russia; I merely wondered as the memo presents itself as being an official campaign communique but the Sanders campaign had disavowed it. So if the Sanders campaign isn't behind it, who is?

Do you want to claim that Russia isn't engaging in a misinformation campaign directed at the election? If you aren't, then why isn't it quite possible that this is part of that campaign? As we already know, Russia was behind the Crowdstrike DNC server-Ukraine hoax.
The videos of Biden are real but if you talk about his odd behaviour you are engaging in a Russian misinformation campaign.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:48 PM   #210
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The difference between Biden's and Trump's gaffes are that Biden has a long history of misspeaking in the moment and later apologizing or deferring to more capable people on the matter, while Trump has a long history of misspeaking in the moment and then doubling down and insisting he was right all along and everyone else was wrong no matter how insane his interpretation happened to be.

I would have preferred to entirely avoid any situation where I have to weigh the ramblings of one crazy white grandpa with another in considering which should be President, but they're certainly very different beasts.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:54 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
"We can not win this election. We can only re-elect Donald Trump.Ē

-- Joe Biden
Yes, he misspoke, that totally justifies your supporting a wannabe dictator like Trump.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:55 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
The difference between Biden's and Trump's gaffes are that Biden has a long history of misspeaking in the moment and later apologizing or deferring to more capable people on the matter, while Trump has a long history of misspeaking in the moment and then doubling down and insisting he was right all along and everyone else was wrong no matter how insane his interpretation happened to be.

I would have preferred to entirely avoid any situation where I have to weigh the ramblings of one crazy white grandpa with another in considering which should be President, but they're certainly very different beasts.
Or you could just vote for the lucid guy who wants a fairer America for everyone.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:56 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
The difference between Biden's and Trump's gaffes are that Biden has a long history of misspeaking in the moment and later apologizing or deferring to more capable people on the matter, while Trump has a long history of misspeaking in the moment and then doubling down and insisting he was right all along and everyone else was wrong no matter how insane his interpretation happened to be.

I would have preferred to entirely avoid any situation where I have to weigh the ramblings of one crazy white grandpa with another in considering which should be President, but they're certainly very different beasts.
Trump doesn't make gaffes, he simply says whatever will boost his ego and heaven help anyone who dares contradict him.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:01 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Or you could just vote for the lucid guy who wants a fairer America for everyone.
And if Sanders is the Democratic candidate that is exactly what they should do, but the same applies in reverse. If people throw a tantrum because their perfect candidate didn't get the nomination and fail to get out and vote, well then they will have no one to blame but themselves if the USA winds up with a 2nd Trump term.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:03 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Lots of potential presidents make gaffes, and yet they still become the President.

For example, does anyone else recall Volume 1 of "Bushisms" that was published even before he became the President?
Well fortunately Biden isnít president. America is in its first stage of weeding out flakes. It is bizarre that he is being touted here as the best DP candidate. Itís crazy.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:05 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Or you could just vote for the lucid guy who wants a fairer America for everyone.
Don't be silly, no one in swing states wants that guy. You've got your spot in the corner next to the Greens, go back and wait there, we'll get around to possibly considering your policies someday. And please remember to raise your hand and wait to be called on before speaking, these are the rules that the whole party voted on, mkay?

Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Trump doesn't make gaffes, he simply says whatever will boost his ego and heaven help anyone who dares contradict him.
No, he parrots people and gets it wrong, but insists he didn't. Like that hurricane which he was told something like "could impact places as far as Alabama," that he interpreted as "it could hit Alabama," and went so far as drawing a track hitting Alabama on a NOAA prediction map with a sharpie, just to avoid having to admit he misspoke.

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Old 8th March 2020, 02:09 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
It is bizarre that he is being touted here as the best DP candidate. It’s crazy.
Let's be honest though - one of his primary qualifications as compared to those who have already dropped out was "ability to raise campaign money". At least if we are to take their word for it at face value. And yeah, that's a pretty insane criterium for choosing a candidate when you think about it.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:09 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And if Sanders is the Democratic candidate that is exactly what they should do, but the same applies in reverse. If people throw a tantrum because their perfect candidate didn't get the nomination and fail to get out and vote, well then they will have no one to blame but themselves if the USA winds up with a 2nd Trump term.
Trump as the more experienced fool will destroy Biden.

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Old 8th March 2020, 02:12 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Let's be honest though - one of his primary qualifications as compared to those who have already dropped out was "ability to raise campaign money". At least if we are to take their word for it at face value. And yeah, that's a pretty insane criterium for choosing a candidate when you think about it.
Money from billionaires who are scared of Sanders putting the interests of American workers before theirs.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:18 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Trump as the more experienced fool and will destroy Biden.
No, that kind of glib nonsense doesn't get people off the hook. Trump won last time because a bunch of Democratic voters who weren't keen on Clinton convinced themselves that she was bound to win so they could sit home or register a protest vote. There are no excuses this time. Biden, Sanders, doesn't matter, they will still be infinitely preferable to Trump and if you convince yourself otherwise, then you are complicit in a 2nd Trump term.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:20 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
"We can not win this election. We can only re-elect Donald Trump.Ē

-- Joe Biden
It sounds from the video like he was trying to express a thought along the lines of "If Democrats don't put aside our differences and work together, we will only re-elect Donald Trump." He obviously fumbled some words in the moment, but not cause for alarm yet.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:23 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Money from billionaires who are scared of Sanders putting the interests of American workers before theirs.
Lack of connections and/or public familiarity factored into it as well, I'm sure. I'd personally have voted for ANY of the others (with the possible exceptions of Bloombergy and Steyer) before Biden - Bennet, Booker, Buttigieg, Harris, Klobuchar, Warren, Sanders, even Gabbard.

Of course, I'll still support and even campaign for Biden if it comes down to a match between him and Trump.

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Old 8th March 2020, 02:24 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It sounds from the video like he was trying to express a thought along the lines of "If Democrats don't put aside our differences and work together, we will only re-elect Donald Trump." He obviously fumbled some words in the moment, but not cause for alarm yet.
Maybe talking heads on CNN can fill this role of turning word salad into some kind of sense just like Fox does for Trump?
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:39 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I seriously believe it wouldn't matter to them whether he was compos mentis or not. He could be a drooling vegetable and they'd endorse him just to preserve party unity. The only alternative is Sanders and his socialism.

I don't think you really do believe that. You can't explain away their endorsements without admitting they don't think Biden has dementia so you go for the absurd.
Quote:
Look at how many people knowingly endorsed Trump.
No one was accusing Trump of having dementia. Of being a bully, a liar, a narcissist? Yes. But not of being non compos mentis.
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Old 8th March 2020, 02:44 PM   #225
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You guys just better hope Dr Lee, et al, come out and clear Biden. Didnít she say her new organization would be vetting candidates in the future? They seem pretty quiet so far.

OR: Maybe we can agree that speculation about mental illness in political candidates a professional has never met is, perhaps, medically inappropriate, unethical and prone to problems with bias?
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:03 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
What of Reaganís second run and term?
Would you like to present evidence that Reagan was exhibiting signs of Alzheimer's during his second run for office in 1984? He wasn't diagnosed with the disease until 1993, nine years later.

Even if we assume that he may have been showing some symptoms during the last year of his presidency, it would likely have been seen as just the typical effects of him aging. Also, remember that he was already the POTUS and he would have had to be removed through the 25 Amendment which requires him be 'unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office'. He would have to be displaying more than just the gaffes that Biden does to reach that standard.

Let's next assume that he became worse towards the very end of his term. Was it bad enough to actually remove him or just let the VP handle things behind the scene and let a very popular president retire with grace?

What you are suggesting is that all those endorsing ex-candidates are conspiring to PUT INTO the presidency a man already with dementia.

If you cannot see just how absurd that is, then I can't help you.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:07 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No one was accusing Trump of having dementia. Of being a bully, a liar, a narcissist? Yes. But not of being non compos mentis.
I was. I think Trump's madder than a loon, and getting worse every day.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:15 PM   #228
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Good thing Trump, never firing on all cylinders, was president first. Reminds me of Daddy Bush talking. But others will not remember this. So Trump talking in disjointed words and phrases will prepare us. We will barely notice the change to slghtly demented Biden.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:20 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Good thing Trump, never firing on all cylinders, was president first. Reminds me of Daddy Bush talking.
.....
More so the younger Bush. He often went off on tangents where it looked like he was moving to another thought before he finished the first one. People might have thought he was dumber than he was, but nobody thought he was senile.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:21 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I never said it was coming from Russia; I merely wondered as the memo presents itself as being an official campaign communique but the Sanders campaign had disavowed it. So if the Sanders campaign isn't behind it, who is?

Do you want to claim that Russia isn't engaging in a misinformation campaign directed at the election? If you aren't, then why isn't it quite possible that this is part of that campaign? As we already know, Russia was behind the Crowdstrike DNC server-Ukraine hoax.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
The videos of Biden are real but if you talk about his odd behaviour you are engaging in a Russian misinformation campaign.
I see the problem now: you have a reading comprehension problem.

I most certainly never said, nor implied, that "if you talk about his odd behaviour you are engaging in a Russian misinformation campaign."

What part of "I never said it was coming from Russia," are you not understanding? What is confusing you about "why isn't it quite possible that this is part of that campaign"?

Does the Sanders campaign deny they sent out this memo? Yes or no?

Do you accept that there is a Russian misinformation campaign? Yes or no?

If you answer 'yes' to both these questions, then can you deny that it is a possibility that Russia is behind the memo?
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:31 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Or you could just vote for the lucid guy who wants a fairer America for everyone.
There is the source of your problem. You want Sanders to win. Fine. You are entitled to your opinion. But in your zeal for Sanders, you willingly embrace and repeat the unsubstantiated 'Biden has dementia' rumor because it fits your bias.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:38 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
There is the source of your problem. You want Sanders to win. Fine. You are entitled to your opinion. But in your zeal for Sanders, you willingly embrace and repeat the unsubstantiated 'Biden has dementia' rumor because it fits your bias.
Would the irony of calling the pointing out of Bidenís obvious flakey behaviour ďfake newsĒ cause an overload?
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:39 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
The videos of Biden are real but if you talk about his odd behaviour you are engaging in a Russian misinformation campaign.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Or you could just vote for the lucid guy who wants a fairer America for everyone.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Well fortunately Biden isnít president. America is in its first stage of weeding out flakes. It is bizarre that he is being touted here as the best DP candidate. Itís crazy.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Trump as the more experienced fool will destroy Biden.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Money from billionaires who are scared of Sanders putting the interests of American workers before theirs.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Maybe talking heads on CNN can fill this role of turning word salad into some kind of sense just like Fox does for Trump?
You have no idea that you have lost all objectivity and only see things through your own bias, do you?

Let me ask you this: if Biden does become the nominee, will you vote for him?
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:41 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I was. I think Trump's madder than a loon, and getting worse every day.
We were talking about those who endorsed Trump.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:48 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Would the irony of calling the pointing out of Bidenís obvious flakey behaviour ďfake newsĒ cause an overload?
Would you care to actually present some evidence of Biden having dementia?

Your repeated say so doesn't rise to that level.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:52 PM   #236
Sideroxylon
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You have no idea that you have lost all objectivity and only see things through your own bias, do you?

Let me ask you this: if Biden does become the nominee, will you vote for him?
I canít vote for Biden because Iím Russian.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:53 PM   #237
Delvo
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
1992? 1996? 2008? 2012?
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Yes, campaign slogans like "A vote for me is a vote for change!" and then "Hope & change!" plus even "My Presidency will be remembered as the time when everything in the whole world started getting better because of all my change!" can work, even when they come from someone who won't end up following through on them.

This is evidence that Biden could win the general election if he were to campaign on the same pretense at progressiveness that those guys did. But he isn't. His pretense at being like Bernie is limited to making up stories for his past, not campaigning as if he were progressive now.
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Are those all actual quotes?
The first two are word for word, and the third is boiled down from of a list of ways that Obama claimed his Presidency would be remembered as improving a list of things about the world (which famously included even the rising ocean settling back down).

But for the sake of discussion, let's go with a pretend-world where those didn't happen, or even where I can seriously believe anybody who was around somehow missed them even though they were so thoroughly everywhere they became clichť (especially when MTV played one of them between its own catchphrases about a "music revolution")... How would that help the case for those who claim that a Democrat can't win unless (s)he essentially acts enough like a Republican and a progressive is sure to lose? Even granting this alternative scenario, you'd still have a world where only one approach, the "try to look & sound enough like a Republican" approach, has ever been tried, and it's worked sometimes and failed sometimes, but then there'd still be no progressive examples on which to base the claim that that couldn't have worked if it had been tried.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What you are suggesting is that all those endorsing ex-candidates are conspiring to PUT INTO the presidency a man already with dementia.
Yes.

...Either because they somehow buy into the above myth that only a republican in Democrats' clothing can win, or because they're just as much a part of standard Washington bribe-taking corruption as so many others are so they don't want us to elect somebody who might actually do something about it.

Last edited by Delvo; 8th March 2020 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 8th March 2020, 03:56 PM   #238
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I canít vote for Biden because Iím Russian.
And on that note, I see any further attempt at having an adult conversation with you is futile. Buh-bye.
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Old 8th March 2020, 04:04 PM   #239
Stacyhs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
What you are suggesting is that all those endorsing ex-candidates are conspiring to PUT INTO the presidency a man already with dementia.
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Yes.

...Either because they somehow buy into the above myth that only a republican in Democrats' clothing can win, or because they're just as much a part of standard Washington bribe-taking corruption as so many others are so they don't want us to elect somebody who might actually do something about it.
Uh-huh. I see. Well, not really.
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Old 8th March 2020, 04:10 PM   #240
Sideroxylon
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And on that note, I see any further attempt at having an adult conversation with you is futile. Buh-bye.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...577ef6e372.jpg
I worked it out when you started insulting me.
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