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18th January 2010, 03:24 PM | #361 |
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*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together *A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' |
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18th January 2010, 03:30 PM | #362 |
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8 years and the massive pile of ample evidence for 911 truth is the empty set; 8 years of lies and failure personified by guess who as she posts off topic woo |
18th January 2010, 03:36 PM | #363 |
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18th January 2010, 03:37 PM | #364 |
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I suppose it doesn't matter, but this is a clear example of why the Truth Movement has failed. You may feel this makes you clever and 'smart', but all it does is demonstrate how the original purpose of this thread is meaningless.
The purpose of the thread was to discuss evidence presented by Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl. His work was linked to as an example of research that does not support NIST and other commonly held interpretations that planes and fires ultimately led to the collapse of the 3 WTC buildings. Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl himself does not believe his evidence supports any such conclusion. It is not clear to the general engineering research community how his work contradicts these generally held ideas. It would therefore be up to you to demonstrate how it does. Otherwise, it is just another piece in what you call the 'official story' that provides reason to accept the planes and fires explanation. OK, so you're a bunch of clever high school kids who can talk circles about all these guys with diplomas on the wall. Sure thing. But until you answer this point, the 911 Truth Movement will continue to be a bunch of high school kids who post on the net. |
18th January 2010, 03:44 PM | #365 |
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*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together *A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' |
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18th January 2010, 03:48 PM | #366 |
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*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together *A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' |
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18th January 2010, 03:49 PM | #367 |
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So did anybody work out what temperature fireproofing melts at as reported by Doctor A-Asl ?
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*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together *A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' |
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18th January 2010, 03:54 PM | #368 |
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Ironically Bill, the utter stupidity of the current batch of Truther heroes posting now on JREF has made me nostalgic for you. At least there's a logic to your posts. These idiots seem to feel that confusing someone is winning the fight. In fact, confusion seems to be their main 'weapon' in dealing with science.
As you know, I think you are a misguided little one. But I am being forced to grow fond of you. Doesn't it bother you that your 'social movement' seems to be made up of morons and the mentally ill? |
18th January 2010, 03:56 PM | #369 |
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Remember the Dali 'melting clocks' analogy to the steel at the WTC ? Check this out
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/621352...es_bent_steel/ |
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18th January 2010, 03:59 PM | #370 |
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Some truthers are unable to learn and prefer your kind of negative learning and dirt dumb delusion quest. At least one truther post videos which debunk their delusions... oops Remember the old days when delusions from Jones were the new smoking gun. Jones used this photo as his evidence of thermite; the truth, it was cut after 911 to help search and rescue by clearing debris. The loyal truthers are trying but failing to apologize for terrorists. When will truthers bring evidence for this failed truther thread? Forgot, they have zero evidence; never mind |
18th January 2010, 04:04 PM | #371 |
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*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together *A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' |
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18th January 2010, 04:17 PM | #372 |
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Why on Earth would "think they are doing very well."? Nothing they say would convince anyone who doesn't already accept this horse p*ss of an argument. All it would look like was they switched the topic. I can understand you might think it's great they're so indocrinated into this position they don't even have to address what they think is important.
There's still no explanation as to why Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl's work was originally linked to. Sure, you can believe all you want about rivers of molten steel and thermite, but that's got nothing to do with anything Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl wrote about. Or it may. I don't know. But certainly the link has not been made and when this point was asked for clarification, the Truther heroes just switched topic. |
18th January 2010, 04:40 PM | #373 |
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18th January 2010, 04:43 PM | #374 |
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18th January 2010, 04:52 PM | #375 |
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*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together *A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough * To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal' |
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18th January 2010, 05:38 PM | #376 |
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Failed to expose much more than ignorance on your part; bringing delusions and the delusion you exposed lies. Cool, you bring back a thread where an engineer thinks 911 truth ideas are poppycock, declare victory; run away and celebrate your continued evidence free victory in your own mind posting in other threads to repeat your insane claim of victory as you post more lies.
Fail, declare victory and move on to fail again. Be happy, your delusions have company |
18th January 2010, 09:00 PM | #377 |
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18th January 2010, 09:11 PM | #378 |
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I also often wonder at what temperature fireproofing melts
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18th January 2010, 09:16 PM | #379 |
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Scott is right. Too much is made of irrelevent issues and not of the overall picture the evidence - all of the evidence - builds. What matters is that truthers are attempting to use Astaneh-Asl's work to buttress conspiratorial fantasies. This work is being misquoted and misused regardless of whether the truthers themselves believe Astaneh-Asl believes in the conspiracy fantasy (which he has clearly stated he does not).
All that is being obsfucated by the silly obsession on minutiae and argumentative "When did Truthers say ''X''?", and all that does is lead to the irrelevant. What matters is what the proper analysis of Astaneh-Asl's work is. And frankly, conspiracy addicts are not properly understanding, much less properly interpreting his observations and statements. |
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18th January 2010, 09:23 PM | #380 |
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Blaze-Shield II specifications
As it is composed primarily of Portland cement, its melting temperature is probably around 1300oC. However, keep in mind that it conducts heat very poorly and, in a typical fire situation, will ablate and only melt at the surface, if at all. It's not just temperature, it takes temperature plus time. |
19th January 2010, 12:14 AM | #381 |
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It's issues like this that make me think JREF is fundamentally a waste of time. There's something wrong with most of the people advocating 911 Truth here and on other forums. Some of them are clearly deranged and in need of medical or legal intervention. The largest group is most likely young boys who can't tell the difference between confusing the issues and winning an argument. As I've said repeatedly here, most of the group that does those 911 protests at Ground Zero is in high school. Almost everyone else is still in college. There's only a handful of them over 25 and they're either making money or in serious need of medication.
The Internet does make it more offensive when someone claims that no one really died on 911. But nothing much is going with these guys anymore. No one listens to them. The facts are all up here and other places to be found by truely interested people. I guess it keeps me thinking when my mind is wandering, but most of what goes on here is equivilant to answering children's questions about why the sky is blue or how a match can burn. It doesn't matter how you explain it, they just can't understand it. It's not a matter of won't; they just can not comprehend what's being said. That's OK. They're just young and you can't get mad. But answering them over and over again...why bother? |
19th January 2010, 01:51 AM | #382 |
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19th January 2010, 08:18 AM | #383 |
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19th January 2010, 08:49 AM | #384 |
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The funny part is you are right and wrong.
You are right that most truthers don't come out and declare that Dr. A is a truther. Most truthers aren't that stupid. Becaues anyone can find his declarations on how stupid and retarded CD theories are. Instead you twoofs do the datamined quotes, and then try to use those quotes to support your position. So instead of actually reading for comprehension and understanding that those datamined quotes you take them and twist them to support the bs you are spewing. Dr. A is a great example. So instead of making the claim outright, you dodge and are weasely about it. So if you want to use Dr. A's claims, great. Lets use ALL of his claims. Are you up for that? How about Danny J? Do you want to use ALL of his quotes? I am more than happy to accept ALL of both of their testimonies...shall we? |
19th January 2010, 09:13 AM | #385 |
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So even though Dr. Astaneh-Asl's observations appear to corroborate the many eye-witness reports of molten steel at GZ, we should just ignore that because Dr. Astaneh-Asl doesn't believe there was a government conspiracy? Is that your idea of an "overall picture of evidence"? |
19th January 2010, 09:15 AM | #386 |
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The key word is "appear." To you, they may "appear" to corroborate the idiotic idea that there were masses of molten steel everywhere... but they don't.
Just talk to the man, he'll set you straight. And quick. |
19th January 2010, 09:28 AM | #387 |
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19th January 2010, 09:34 AM | #388 |
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19th January 2010, 10:15 AM | #389 |
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19th January 2010, 10:18 AM | #390 |
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So you understand fully the role of iron-sulphur eutectics in lowering the melting point of steel to temperatures accessible to a normal hydrocarbon fire with unforced draught? If so, could you please explain it to everybody else in the truth movement, because they are in serious confusion about what it meant.
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19th January 2010, 10:31 AM | #391 |
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19th January 2010, 10:36 AM | #392 |
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And you are unable to contact him for an explanation because ... ?
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19th January 2010, 10:37 AM | #393 |
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19th January 2010, 10:40 AM | #394 |
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Yes, so Astaneh-Asl said something had happened that could not possibly have happened - namely, the reduction of a steel plate in thickness, and the acquisition of a sharp edge by that plate, by vaporisation of the steel. No truther has been able to suggest a plausible mechanism by which such a thing could happen at all, let alone one that suggests an unknown cause of the structural collapses. So what I understand perfectly well is that Astaneh-Asl was not using language as precisely as truthers like to think. Since you're trying to create the illusion of an argument (and no more, because you don't have any idea how to construct an actual argument) based on an over-literal interpretation of a small part of Astaneh-Asl's comments taken out of context, that observation is fatal to your position.
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19th January 2010, 10:53 AM | #395 |
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I don't understand why you believe it's an "idiotic idea" - there were numerous eye-witness accounts of molten steel: http://history-bytes.blogspot.com/20...tal-magic.html ..and Dr. A-Asl saw the "melting of girders". Do you believe this is all explainable (e.g., eutectic mix), or are you suggesting that the eye-witnesses were all mistaken? (or something else entirely?) |
19th January 2010, 10:59 AM | #396 |
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You read what Ryan wrote:
And then go do a forum search for the term "eutectic". Yes, my idea of an "overall picture of evidence" includes his observations, as well as Biederman, Sisson, and Barnett's. And ALL of that put together doesn't corroborate the supposed reports of molten steel, it negates it. This is where you fail, Deep. You did exactly what I said above and in previous posts: You concentrated on only a single aspect of Astaneh-Asl's observation, you failed to include the followups that Worchester did, and you delved into unrelated eyewitness accounts about molten metal to make the charge that molten steel was present. If you had truly understood Astaneh-Asl's observation as well as the Biederman, Sisson, Barnett research afterwards, you would not have made that post. Then again, had you understood all those men, you wouldn't be defending the conspiracy fantasy. So I guess this is no surprise you try to make that argument. ------- For others who are unfamiliar with the background: Astahen-Asl had made a few observations about the WTC steel debris, some of which conspiracy peddlers latch on to as a supposed anomaly indicating a collapse narrative at odds with the one NIST published. You can bet that where someone's talking about molten steel, they're leading to thermite and intentional destruction of the Twin Towers. Problem is, they're wrong. They correctly cite Astaneh-Asl's observation about "vaporized" steel, but they fail to follow up and understand that:
The irony here is that Deep is trying to nail me for my statement about the "overall picture", yet it is he who's withholding crucial elements of the picture, those elements leading away from conspiratorial fantasies. Go figure. Typical truther distortion. |
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19th January 2010, 11:01 AM | #397 |
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Oh, not this again! See above. Astaneh-Asl made an initial observation, but subsequent resesarch shows that this was not vaporization, but sulfidation!
You, too, are not comprehending the overall picture. Go do a search for "eutectic" in this forum; you need to do this before you rehash ground that's been covered ad-nauseum already. |
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19th January 2010, 11:21 AM | #398 |
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Who cares whether Dr. A-Asl is a Truther or not. Personally I only care what he is documented as having said, not whether he is an active supporter of 9/11 Truth or not.
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19th January 2010, 11:30 AM | #399 |
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With the single exception of Dr. A, all the people you refer to make statements that are second-hand reports. Nobody saw molten steel first hand.
There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile. There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks. Given that there is no evidence and no science, we can dismiss the second-hand stories as hyperbole. We can also explain Dr. A's statement as a moment of exaggeration. |
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19th January 2010, 11:34 AM | #400 |
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