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25th February 2008, 04:13 PM | #41 |
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Is this an admission that all the steel wasn't immediately shipped to China?
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25th February 2008, 04:16 PM | #42 |
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25th February 2008, 04:18 PM | #43 |
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25th February 2008, 04:19 PM | #44 |
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I can say with 100% honesty and integrity that I have never seen or heard any factual, logical, or evidentiary data that makes me suspect anything other than the popular account of the events of 9/11 took place. Scouts honor. I'd swear and sign my name to it.
Can you say the same about the trooth? |
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25th February 2008, 04:20 PM | #45 |
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wildcat wrote:
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This reminds me of the Lee report in so many ways. |
25th February 2008, 04:21 PM | #46 |
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It's time to cut the BS. Astaneh-Asl does not support the truther side:
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His complaint regarding the WTC tragedy is related to building codes:
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25th February 2008, 04:22 PM | #47 |
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Opinion
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25th February 2008, 04:23 PM | #48 |
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Quote:
Way to "Stick to his actual quotes"! |
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25th February 2008, 04:24 PM | #49 |
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Good idea! Here ya go Red: astaneh@ce.berkeley.edu
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25th February 2008, 04:25 PM | #50 |
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Easy one. Yup, I can guarantee you that I am not 100% of the entire official story. I have no doubt that in 20 years the official story will have changed in many minor details. What I will also tell you, is that 50 years from now the who, how, when, and why of the attacks WILL NOT HAVE CHANGED.
There is nothing to debunk Red. Who here has DENIED the presence of HIGH TEMPERATURES with regard to the WTC attacks?? TAM |
25th February 2008, 04:25 PM | #51 |
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25th February 2008, 04:25 PM | #52 |
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Wil cat:address thread 45
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25th February 2008, 04:26 PM | #53 |
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25th February 2008, 04:27 PM | #54 |
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25th February 2008, 04:28 PM | #55 |
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When it comes to burden of proof, argumentum ad populum works just fine for me. Especially when the vast majority of people in the legitimate scientific and engineering community concur.
As I said earlier, you cannot DEBUNK observations...they are what they are, observations. Why don't you try and debunk the CONCLUSIONS this same engineer has made after making his OBSERVATIONS!!! TAM |
25th February 2008, 04:28 PM | #56 |
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25th February 2008, 04:28 PM | #57 |
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that isn't a derailment sizzler. its a legitimate question
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25th February 2008, 04:28 PM | #58 |
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25th February 2008, 04:29 PM | #59 |
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25th February 2008, 04:30 PM | #60 |
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25th February 2008, 04:30 PM | #61 |
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25th February 2008, 04:31 PM | #62 |
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25th February 2008, 04:33 PM | #63 |
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25th February 2008, 04:34 PM | #64 |
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25th February 2008, 04:39 PM | #65 |
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25th February 2008, 04:42 PM | #66 |
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25th February 2008, 04:43 PM | #67 |
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Why, too, does 9/11 blogger choose his earlier assessment of the WTC, instead of the later one??
SFGate, Oct. 22, 2001
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People need to stop misrepresenting his work. His suspicions vis-a-vis the Twin Towers collapse are that the building codes were insufficient. There's no conspiracy fantasy there in his work. Again, he has come out and said he does not support any narrative other than that involving impacts and fires. In fact, he like NIST and other researchers, believes that if it weren't for the fires, the buildings would have remained:
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25th February 2008, 04:44 PM | #68 |
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RedIbis -
Could you please explain what needs to be debunked and why? |
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25th February 2008, 05:00 PM | #69 |
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Based upon the chemical content of the thinned-out metal of WTC 7, one can concluded that the damage was done by sulphuric acid. There was a lot in the environment of the rubble pile. It was abundant in the building before the attack.
Not a thing in the report even suggests thermite of explosives. He would have mentioned the signitures of explosives had he seen them. It is possible for a Class A fire to achieve 2000F locally. So, what's to denunk about the report? What needs debunking is 911 Boogger. |
25th February 2008, 05:09 PM | #70 |
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Astaneh-Asl's observations were that fire after the jets impacts caused failure of the structure.
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His argument is that the structure should have been better designed.
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There's nothing to debunk. He agrees with the NIST narrative of fires leading to structural failure. If anything, truthers are missing something to investigate right there in what he asks! Was the towers' design faulty? Did the designers violate "practice and code"? Why do truthers insist on missing the point of these researchers work? Quintierre discusses a glossing over of defects in the building fire codes. Astaneh-Asl discusses potential issues with the design. I don't have the architectural knowledge to know if either researcher is on base or not, but why do people who think they're obsessed with discovering truth continually miss the truth of these researchers work? If there are questions to ask, the ones those researchers ask are the ones! Not this continual purporting of steel melting, or this obsession with the fact the steel was supposedly shipped out too quickly. Jesus, people, Quintierre and Astaneh-Asl do not support the so-called "Truth" movement. Read their work. Understand what it is they're truly challenging. ----- Aside from the rant, do any of the engineering or architectural gurus here (Architect, Newton's Bit, rwguinn, R.Mackey, and others) have any opinion over the real questions Astaneh-Asl raises? I do not have the knowledge to analyze his charge that the actual implementation of the Twin Towers design violated codes and practices. Do you guys have any commentary? |
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25th February 2008, 05:10 PM | #71 |
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This is what the "movement" is left with? Pretty sad.
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25th February 2008, 05:19 PM | #72 |
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25th February 2008, 05:28 PM | #73 |
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And why did 9/11 Blogger juxtapose Astaneh-Asl with the argument that the steel was shipped off too quickly? Yes, I know that CBS is the source of the quote, "As a result, Astaneh has almost certainly missed seeing crucial pieces before they were cut up and sent overseas...", but 9/11 Blogger tries to use Astaneh-Asl as proof that there was insufficient investigation of the steel debris.
Funny, but he doesn't agree:
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Does he know for certain if all the investigations "have been able to collect sufficient data"? No; that's why he says "may". But he doesn't say that the shipping out was an impediment to his investigation; he instead says that his lack of access to documents - remedied in 2002 - was the real problem. Again, his work is being misrepresented. His complaints and challenges do not point at a conspiracy. He supports the narrative of impacts + fires = collapse. There's just nothing to debunk there. Nothing at all. What needs debunking is the fantasists interpretation of his work. I'm done. It's dinnertime where I'm at. I'll check back later to see if any of the truthful, rational, sane architect-ing/engineering heads here have anything to say about Astaneh-Asl's charge. Until then, I think we can put to rest any notion that his work somehow supports the conspiracy fantasy. |
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25th February 2008, 05:28 PM | #74 |
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25th February 2008, 05:29 PM | #76 |
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Just out of interest, were the samples Astaneh-Asl commented on exposed to high temperatures before or after the collapses? Remember, RedIbis, those inconvenient fires that burned for weeks in the rubble piles. How hot did they get? And also out of interest, how many of these "evaporated" samples were the same ones that were then analysed and found to have been eroded by eutectic reactions with sulphur, which proceed at a much lower temperature than the melting point of structural steel?
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25th February 2008, 05:30 PM | #77 |
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25th February 2008, 05:34 PM | #78 |
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25th February 2008, 05:34 PM | #79 |
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25th February 2008, 05:34 PM | #80 |
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