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25th February 2008, 07:47 PM | #121 |
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25th February 2008, 07:49 PM | #122 |
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25th February 2008, 07:50 PM | #123 |
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25th February 2008, 08:10 PM | #124 |
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25th February 2008, 08:21 PM | #125 |
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Correct. Especially the part where he says:
"If you remember the Salvador Dali paintings with the clocks that are kind of melted--it's kind of like that." He added, "That could only happen if you get steel yellow hot or white hot--perhaps around 2,000 degrees." [6] • In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]
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25th February 2008, 08:23 PM | #126 |
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25th February 2008, 08:25 PM | #127 |
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25th February 2008, 08:26 PM | #128 |
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25th February 2008, 08:26 PM | #129 |
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25th February 2008, 08:26 PM | #130 |
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So you admit Mohammed Atta killed hundreds of innocent people and you still keep him as your avatar? Disgusting.
If you're so sure the CIA did this why don't you man up and start naming some names so we can get a libel lawsuit going? If you're right it will come out in court and you'll have single-handedly brought the NWO (or whoever your pet boogeyman is) crashing down. |
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25th February 2008, 08:29 PM | #131 |
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I find it extraordinarily interesting that RedIbis is defending a claim that steel temperatures reached 2000oF, or about 1100oC -- a temperature wholly consistent with the NIST report...
... while over here, realcddeal is vigorously opposing the notion that steel could have gotten nearly that hot. Make Up Your Minds already! This is why you guys need to formulate a hypothesis. No more excuses. Do it. It will clear your mind enormously. |
25th February 2008, 08:31 PM | #132 |
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Wrong, wrong, and wrong. The two statements do not imply the third.
Melting of girders, perhaps. But only melting of eutectics. Dr. Astaneh-Asl's other comments make it crystal clear that he does not believe temperatures ever existed to melt steel. Steel-sulfur compounds, yes. Steel, no. Contact him if you don't believe me. |
25th February 2008, 08:32 PM | #133 |
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25th February 2008, 08:33 PM | #134 |
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They don't have to agree, or be unified, they just have to keep looking for loose ends to pull from the cloth...they do not care whether the ends lead to something of significance (which they do not), or simply end the second they pull on them.
And that is your daily Metaphor. TAM |
25th February 2008, 08:33 PM | #135 |
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Red Ibis please respond to post #44.
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25th February 2008, 08:35 PM | #136 |
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Sizzler are the clocks in the Dali painting melting? Are they molten?
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25th February 2008, 08:35 PM | #137 |
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25th February 2008, 08:37 PM | #138 |
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25th February 2008, 08:37 PM | #139 |
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25th February 2008, 08:38 PM | #140 |
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No. I cannot say that I 100% know the twoofy twoof. You would have done better to leave this alone.
Do you think the official story is falsifiable? If you don't answer this question, I will do something I've never done and obnoxiously hound you to answer it, as you have done to me. |
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25th February 2008, 08:40 PM | #141 |
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25th February 2008, 08:40 PM | #142 |
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If there was only some way that the seemingly curious CTers in this thread could get clarification on what Astaneh-Asl meant.
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25th February 2008, 08:40 PM | #143 |
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25th February 2008, 08:42 PM | #144 |
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Quote:
However, he uses the word MELTED for the girders, a completely different term, and thus meaning. |
25th February 2008, 08:44 PM | #145 |
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25th February 2008, 08:45 PM | #146 |
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^are you drunk?
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25th February 2008, 08:46 PM | #147 |
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What did he mean by it? Have you contacted him, or tried to contact him?
If he has seen these things, why has he not drawn the same conclusions as you? Has he blatantly overlooked something? He has come to a conclusion, that the building collapsed due to the structural damage and the subsequent fires, based on his findings. What is he missing in his analysis, that you have found? |
25th February 2008, 08:47 PM | #148 |
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25th February 2008, 08:47 PM | #149 |
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I know this question was directed at cisco, but the answer is so bloody obvious, I couldn't help but chime in.
OF COURSE THE OFFICIAL STORY IS FALSIFIABLE You want to falsify it to me? Then just provide an alternative hypothesis that fits all the evidence, and I'll be at Ground Zero in a black t-shirt and brandishing a bullhorn next weekend. |
25th February 2008, 08:49 PM | #150 |
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25th February 2008, 08:54 PM | #151 |
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That's mean. And you are drunken!
Just kidding. No, I'm not. Dr. Astaneh-Asl is a scientist. Scientists use precise language. So did he. He gave a temperature estimate -- 2000oF. I don't have a problem with that estimate. You guys are ignoring that figure, seizing upon figures of speech. The vaporization temperature of steel is way higher than that -- but, sure enough, I've got RedIbis on the hook, defending vaporization. It's nonsense. Do you know where Dr. Astaneh-Asl got his steel from? And once you've answered that, do you know what happened to the steel before he saw it? Here's a hint: He described this to Congress in 2002. Once you've got that, keep the word "eutectic" in mind, and it will all make sense. If you want it to, that is. I welcome you, as I have for some time, to propose an alternate hypothesis. I'll enjoy poking holes in it and helping you refine it. |
25th February 2008, 08:58 PM | #152 |
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25th February 2008, 09:01 PM | #153 |
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25th February 2008, 09:04 PM | #154 |
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Why are we talking about molten steel again? Only one video puts any mention of molten metal on the day of the event itself, and there's no proof that the metal in that video is steel.
Every other sighting that I'm aware of involving molten metal took place on the order of days to weeks after the collapses, and even if the metal in those sightings was steel, any molten state or stage towards melting can be explained by the burning of fires underneath the mounds of rubble. The intensity of these fires is documented. So is the length of time they burned. The only sighting of molten metal actually flowing from the towers prior to collapse is that video all over YouTube, and not only is it not proven to be steel, it's more likely to be aluminum, lead, or some combination of metals present in the building. So why is steel being discussed again?
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9/11 Blogger is merely making an assumption about Astaneh-Asl's observations being a result of the temperature ranges Eager states occurred in the towers. The pre-collapse tower fires were not the only fires the steel structures were exposed to; the post collapse burning rubble piles also affected these steel components. Remember, the Bechtel SH&E article in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine reported measurements of up to 2,800 F in the rubble piles. Given that amount of energy, plus that amount of time, why is there any surprise at molten metal sightings days after the fact? That's one possible explanation right there: Exposure to post-collapse fires. ETA: Mackey got a post in while I was composing. Pay attention to what he's saying; he's sharper on the details of this topic than I am. And yes, consider the eutectic reaction. |
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25th February 2008, 09:14 PM | #155 |
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25th February 2008, 09:23 PM | #156 |
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MACKEY MUST BE DRUNK:
In an interview about the "Collapse of Overpass in California Becomes Lesson in Construction"; http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/scien...ass_05-10.html
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Mackey is drunk. |
25th February 2008, 09:24 PM | #157 |
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What Hassan Astaneh Really thinks about the FEMA and NIST Reports
Here is part of an e-mail HA wrote to me back in Sept 2007:
When scientists and engineers outside civil engineering, such as yourself , learn about what I have called "moral corruption" in our profession, they cannot believe it! It is worst than what it looks like. For example, I have attached a page from the ASCE/FEMA report which lists the names of people who were on the ASCE/FEMA Building Performance Assessment Team (BPAT) that produced the FEMA 403 Report. ASCE was paid about $1.0 million of taxpayer's money to investigate the performance of these buildings and their collapse. The list of participants in the investigation includes two names: Jon Magnusson and Saw -Teen See. You may not know these individuals, but here is who they are: 1. Jon Magnusson: He is listed in ASCE/FEMA report as Partner in Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire Inc. He is actually one of the main owners and managers of the firm. Skilling, Barkshire Ward Magnusson, which was called Skilling Helle Christiansen Robertson, was the structural engineering firm (located in Seattle and still there) that did the structural engineering and design of the WTC towers. Leslie E, Robertson, one of the younger partners at the time moved to New York after WTC design and opened up his own structural engineering firm which still is there called Leslie E. Robertson and Associates. Leslie E. Robertson was the structural engineer of the record for the structural design of the WTC towers and all structural drawings have his stamp and signature on them. Having Jon Magnusson from Skilling on the team that is investigating the structure designed by his firm and has collapsed killing thousands of people is beyond belief and I am sure in violations of some laws. You cannot be on the team paid by taxpayers to investigate why the buildings that you had designed (or your firm had designed) collapsed. Your own building! 2. Saw-Teen See: She is listed in ASCE/FEMA report as the Managing Partner, Leslie E. Robertson and Associates, LLP. Of course Leslie E. Robertson was the structural engineer of the record for design of towers. In addition, Saw-Teen See is not only the manager of Leslie E. Robertson and Associates , but she is the wife of Leslie E. Robertson! So, the wife of the structural engineer who designed the WTC towers, who is also the head of the firm Leslie E. Robertson was sitting on the team to investigate the design and performance of the WTC towers and why they failed! No wonder when you read the ASCE/FEMA -403 report, there is only praise ( unbeleivable right?) for the structural design of the WTC Towers. The "moral corruption" is here, where , not only ASCE, but, all other members of the ASCE/FEMA BPAT allowed these two individuals to become the member of the team and did not demand their expulsion or did not resign. I was invited to be amember of this ASCE/FEMA team and I had accepted. When the first kick-off meeting was held which for many including myself being in New York was via conference call, I realized what is going on and resigned from the ASCE/FEMA team right after the first meeting. There was an article in Chronicle of Higher Education last September (2006) that talked a little bit about these issues while discussing my efforts to find the "Truth" about these towers. The URL is: http://chronicle.com/free/v53/i03/03a02901.htm an earlier article by the Chronicle of Higher Education on my WTC work appeared in 2001: http://chronicle.com/weekly/v48/i15/15a02701.htm As for the NIST report, the situation is not better. When NIST got the funding to do the multi-million dollar (I think it was more than $12M) WTC studies, they divided the money and instead of doing it, which they really did not have much expertise in structural engineering, they contracted it out. The first contract for structural modeling and analysis was given to none other than Leslie E. Robertson firm! No wonder again that the NIST report does not say anything (almost) remotely negative about the structural design. So, here we are with this corrupt profession of mine (civil and structural engineering) in charge of public safety. |
25th February 2008, 09:27 PM | #158 |
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25th February 2008, 09:29 PM | #159 |
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25th February 2008, 09:30 PM | #160 |
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Sizzler, please respond to post #136.
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