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27th June 2013, 02:02 PM | #121 |
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27th June 2013, 02:07 PM | #122 |
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27th June 2013, 02:15 PM | #123 |
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27th June 2013, 02:35 PM | #124 |
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28th June 2013, 04:50 AM | #125 |
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The two guys who got trapped in WTC7 did. They were rescued by firemen.
http://barryjenningsmystery.blogspot.com/ |
28th June 2013, 05:04 AM | #126 |
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28th June 2013, 05:39 AM | #127 |
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28th June 2013, 05:44 AM | #128 |
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28th June 2013, 07:42 AM | #129 |
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28th June 2013, 07:45 AM | #130 |
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28th June 2013, 10:26 AM | #131 |
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Ooops....missed that hint.
1) I cannot say definitely. Yes the moment frame set up would make it stronger. But how much stronger is the question. 2) I doubt it would need "...to blow the columns at nearly every floor..." but how much more I cannot guesstimate. 3) I have over the years thought through how I would take down the Twins either by using CD assistance to aircraft damage or without the aircraft assistance. (Military engineering maxim - "think like the enemy". ) 4) I have never gone into the details for WTC7 5) Reasons - there was no CD - nor any reasoned claim to prima facie standard from any genuine truther. And I rarely waste time responding to trolling - plus the variables for hypothetical scenarios are too wide. Bottom line - your guess is probably as good as mine. |
28th June 2013, 10:54 AM | #132 |
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28th June 2013, 11:05 AM | #133 |
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ok another hard evidence free kook website CM got any REAL proof and evidence?
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28th June 2013, 12:53 PM | #134 |
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This view of WTC7's south side, viewing from the SE corner indicates a primarily inward collapse.
The collapse sequence below shows the prolonged vertical stability of the collapse. Because of damage to the SW corner and the gouge in the middle of the south face of WTC7, it was not surprising that later in the global collapse the remaining structure would lean south. MM |
28th June 2013, 01:03 PM | #135 |
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28th June 2013, 01:57 PM | #136 |
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28th June 2013, 02:16 PM | #137 |
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28th June 2013, 02:18 PM | #138 |
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CM its pretty obvious there were no explosions until the planes were crashed into the buildings, no fantasy youtube video will change that reality.
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28th June 2013, 04:26 PM | #139 |
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Its not obvious they were explosions, and if you want to argue that go back to the thread for it. Your pal ergo went around the blocks several times on it, and a timeline of sorts was hashed out.
In any case, unless you can tie what Jennings reported, directly to the collapse hours later, then just stay out of the discussion. The discussion, I must remind you again, is whether free fall means CD. If you cannot establish that it does, and you keep publishing things that have nothing to do with it, you are only derailing the discussion. |
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28th June 2013, 04:56 PM | #140 |
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You and I clearly have different definitions of the word "another"
Here, I'll help: WTC 7 was a collapse that waited for hours after the explosions to collapse. ____ was the other building that waited for hours after the explosions to collapse. CLAYTON MOORE: You need to fill in that blank, for a cool grand. AND.... GO! |
28th June 2013, 04:59 PM | #141 |
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I asked you for another example, it's pretty damn obvious that you don't have one.
There's a reason for that - There are ZERO examples of controlled demo that have explosives going off, and the building stands for hours after. You can't find one that stands for more than 30 seconds after the initial blasts ffs. STOP LYING |
29th June 2013, 09:12 AM | #142 |
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A view of the SE corner shows where the western section of the building went?
How about a pic of that instead. Are you dishonest or delusional?
Quote:
Quote:
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29th June 2013, 01:39 PM | #143 |
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I guess CM doesn't need the money.
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29th June 2013, 04:53 PM | #144 |
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Yes. You can see down to the SW corner of WTC7 with only a bit of the base cropped. It is obvious the collapsing south side was not predominantly in the street as you would have everyone believe. 8 storeys of freefall collapse and the frame does not break up, even when its speed is reduced by collision with the mounting debris pile. WTC7 covered a city block in NYC about the size of a football field. It was surrounded by perimeter columns which were a major part of that moment frame. A moment frame that we know had SW corner damage and a multi-storey center gouge on its south side. The view of the north side of WTC7 during its collapse, shows that whatever was happening on the lower floors, it was happening synchronously and at a speed that was removing all the perimeter columns as if they were not there. I agree that in other views, later in the collapse, the remaining WTC7 begins to lean south. But what significance does this hold when considering WTC7's incredible collapse speed and vertical stability, while being totally destroyed in seconds? Why would floor by floor, all the perimeter columns suddenly offer no resistance? On the northern, western and eastern sides of WTC7, there was little known physical damage to the perimeter columns. But at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, all the perimeter columns for 8 floors, behaved as if they were removed by human intervention. WTC7 could not miraculously transfer vertical load to the perimeter columns with such orchestrated perfection as to make all 4 sides of WTC7 drop for 8 storeys with such vertical precision. Office furnishing's fires did not create this. MM |
29th June 2013, 05:24 PM | #145 |
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29th June 2013, 06:41 PM | #146 |
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29th June 2013, 06:45 PM | #147 |
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You do realise that that part of the SE corner that's visible isn't the lower SE corner in the "as built" location don't you? Those corner windows only started on the seventh floor.
ETA- In fact looking at it closely those look like the double height windows in the middle of the building so the lowest window there will be the 20th floor. |
30th June 2013, 09:07 AM | #148 |
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He said "go figure". That mean's it's everyone else's job to do the figures to back up his assertion. Weren't you paying attention?
I'll double it. Even if any did exist, I strongly doubt Clay's ability to find them. Is this the current version of "straight down"/"in its own footprint"? Another technical-sounding but ultimately meaningless phrase? Except for the parts where it wasn't falling at freefall speed, which is not necessarily evidence of actual free fall, despite frequent truther attempts to conflate the two. Oh boy, I wonder how MM is going to ignore this one! |
1st July 2013, 09:34 PM | #149 |
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Um...
You might want to look closely. It appears that the south side of the collapsed building is mostly... in the street. Those guys are standing... in the street. You need to give fire a lot more respect. You don't (or refuse to) understand what an animal it really can be. |
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"I joined this forum to learn about the people who think that 9/11 was an inside job. I've learned that they believe nutty things and are not very good at explaining them." - FineWine "The agencies involved with studying the WTC collapse no more needed to consider explosives than the police need to consider brain cancer in a shooting death." - ElMondoHummus |
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2nd July 2013, 07:44 AM | #150 |
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2nd July 2013, 07:54 AM | #151 |
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Do you want to make an actual direct assertion and support it, or just make arguments by implication?
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2nd July 2013, 08:01 AM | #152 |
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2nd July 2013, 09:02 AM | #153 |
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It had "prolonged vertical stability". Pay attention!
(Note how I don't actually contradict you, leaving open the possibility that those are the same thing.) |
2nd July 2013, 12:53 PM | #154 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcb37yyHgT8 If you watch this CD here, there is a brief period of silence between the initial explosions and the explosions in which the building starts to fall. What would happen to the building if the final explosives didn't go off? I'm guessing it would sit there all day, maybe leaning or bulging a bit but would still be standing......and would need very little to finish the job. Were explosions going off 'slowly' throughout the day? who knows. Did the majority of explosions occur whilst the towers were collapsing? who knows. The above could explain why very little explosives would be needed to finish the job so to speak and I'm yet to see a video of 7 going down that has a clear sound recording. |
2nd July 2013, 01:15 PM | #155 |
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Quote:
Who knows?? I do. Rational people do. How do we know? You didn't happen to notice the hundreds (thousands?) of people in the immediate vicinity of WTC 7 all day, did you? Don't you suppose they would have heard explosions going off periodically during the day? I think someone may have said something by now if there were. Or are we back on "hush-a-boom" explosives that don't make any sound? |
2nd July 2013, 01:58 PM | #156 |
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No explosives were used. The above explains gravity is used as the primary energy to destroy building in CD. Not to explain woo of 911 truth.
CD of WTC 7? lol, there were zero explosives used on 911. No explosives were needed because fire did it. Fire, heat energy, things 911 truth can't understand because they can't think for themselves. Fire can't beat steel. 911 truth's insane claims of super steel, can't fail in fire. Wood is laughing. 12 years of failure, coming in September. How will you celebrate 12 years of failure? Silk/Linen or Pearls? |
2nd July 2013, 02:58 PM | #157 |
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You still fear showing the aerial pic that has wtc7 draped across WTC 7?
Those exterior panels lying on top of the rubble, north face panels lying on top of debris south of the building MM. Shows that the major part of the building fell south North perimeter columns below the transfer trusses were shoved north as the south end of those trusses collapsed when the columns of the core failed. That resulted in no ability of the north side to be supported. There is NO sustained descent at g which would be required in your scenario. Instead acceleration ramps up to and exceeds g. Your assertions cannot explain that at all. Basically yours is nothing but bare assertion with no technical backing whatsoever. Isn't it about time that AE911T actually did an engineering study , an FEA, to determine if their bald claims have any weight. Talk about insufficient support....... |
2nd July 2013, 03:00 PM | #158 |
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Every 6 months these subjects reappear and the same arguments are rehashed. Except the more they repeat the less technical the detail.
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2nd July 2013, 03:16 PM | #159 |
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Exactly!
AE911T has made claims about, for instance, Wtc7' fire spread, claiming it could not follow the path that the NIST fea indicated it did. Instead of running their own fea they backed the utterly simplistic musings of a carpenter who seems to have used MSPaint to produce illustrations of how he , with no experience and no technical backing, assumes the fire would spread. So one wonders why a cadre of engineers would not only wait a decade, but also back such a ridiculously flawed report (random musings). Much the same can be said of the claim that FFA = CD. This is the musing of a high school physics teacher that no engineer has bothered to investigate in technical form. Instead AE911T chooses to simply accept such a claim as does the video editor above, MM. |
2nd July 2013, 03:53 PM | #160 |
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I specifically started this thread to address the free fall claim separately, so whenever it comes up elsewhere on a derail, the offending slice of Gish gallop can be referenced back here. It also serves as an easy reference solely for the free fall claim, which seems to be a core tenet of the Truther creed.
Yes, it is simple. And a high school physics teacher should be able to tell that a bouncy acceleration graph is not proof of constant free fall. |
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