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Old 22nd January 2014, 08:40 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
LOL, there is more evidence they were planted than there is they came from a 757.
Then by all means please show us this proof.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 09:09 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The OP didn't specify the Pentagon. The proof I was referring to was for NYC. Now that the Pentagon is specified, I'd like to know if you have any evidence the plane parts weren't planted.

For example, the dudes that were allegedly picking up the parts from the lawn, is that normal practice; to pick up the pieces before they're categorized and photographed, or does that only happen on the TeeVee?
Is it normal practice for conspirators to engage in conspiratorial behavior like planting large bits of planes in broad daylight where news media might be aiming their very large lensed cameras at them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely your picture of men in white shirts was taken and published by the news media, right?

On them not wearing gloves: does the FAA dust every last little scrap of a plane crash for fingerprints? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, they don't. All of the time, in an accidental plane crash, the FAA will document the wreckage to determine what caused the plane to crash. In the event the reason is clear, as is the case on 911, there is little need to document the scene.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 06:07 AM   #83
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Mod WarningContinuing to post personal attacks and derails immediately after a couple of pages of posts are removed to AAH probably isn't the best idea. Cut it out.
Responding to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By:Cuddles
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Old 23rd January 2014, 06:59 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
Mod WarningContinuing to post personal attacks and derails immediately after a couple of pages of posts are removed to AAH probably isn't the best idea. Cut it out.
Responding to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By:Cuddles
Baiting should be against the MA as well.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 07:32 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by kid meatball View Post
Is it normal practice for conspirators to engage in conspiratorial behavior like planting large bits of planes in broad daylight where news media might be aiming their very large lensed cameras at them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely your picture of men in white shirts was taken and published by the news media, right?
This appears to go to the heart of the matter.

Whatever task those two men were performing it, the photograph tells us they were doing it in broad daylight in front of witnesses with cameras. Is it conceivable that they were actually placing fake wreckage and just hoping that if they brazen it out, nobody watching would ever ask why they were doing it? No. Obviously it isn't. It's beyond ridiculous.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 08:15 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Deleted.

I started to write a response detailing "evidence" like the removal of bomb-sniffing dogs from the WTC in the days before the attack. But none of the "evidence" that is consistent with a conspiracy theory is inconsistent with the hijackings. So, it's all irrelevant. There has been no demonstration of any evidence that could not have been true had the towers fallen due to the hijackings.
Truthers act like the conspiracy is the Null Hypothesis, not hijackings, despite the fact that they can't even decide which conspiracy. All they have to do is poke holes in the "Official Story" to "win".

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
This appears to go to the heart of the matter.

Whatever task those two men were performing it, the photograph tells us they were doing it in broad daylight in front of witnesses with cameras. Is it conceivable that they were actually placing fake wreckage and just hoping that if they brazen it out, nobody watching would ever ask why they were doing it? No. Obviously it isn't. It's beyond ridiculous.
Once again, the bad guys in a conspiracy need to have Schrodinger's Competence; both smart and dumb at the same time.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 09:55 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
This appears to go to the heart of the matter.

Whatever task those two men were performing it, the photograph tells us they were doing it in broad daylight in front of witnesses with cameras. Is it conceivable that they were actually placing fake wreckage and just hoping that if they brazen it out, nobody watching would ever ask why they were doing it? No. Obviously it isn't. It's beyond ridiculous.
There are Truthers who think the photos are fakes
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Old 23rd January 2014, 09:58 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by 000063 View Post
Truthers act like the conspiracy is the Null Hypothesis.....
david watts has actually come right out and made that exact claim
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Old 23rd January 2014, 10:01 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Titanic Explorer View Post
There are Truthers who think the photos are fakes
Actual photo of placing evidence, complete fakes, what's the difference, as long as the claim disputes the commonly accepted history of events.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 10:02 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by 000063 View Post
Schrodinger's Competence; both smart and dumb at the same time.
I like that. Is that yours, or is it borrowed?

It may become my new sig.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 10:40 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Titanic Explorer View Post
There are Truthers who think the photos are fakes
Truthers who think the photographic evidence provided by yankee451 is fake? Well if that were the case then he would have no evidence at all, instead of having evidence which actually depicts the opposite of what he claims. And then where would we be? In want of a coherent alternative story, i suppose.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 04:19 PM   #92
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Yankee, I love your Avatar picture, which shows how incredibly light the construction of the WTC Towers were (relative to their size). 95% air, structurally sound but not impervious to unfought fires etc! I use that berautiful picture to rebuit Gage's claim that the buildings are these unbelievably strong structures. They were actually famous for the amount of open space they created for offices. But in answer to your question about talking to Pentagon librarians... do you now believe that low-level government employees down to the level of librarians are in on the conspiracy? And yes, they are very much worth talking to. In my research I have had phone conversations with NIST and Richard Gage on the same day. That's how you start learning the truth, by talking to EVERYONE.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 04:43 PM   #93
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Quote:
do you now believe that low-level government employees down to the level of librarians are in on the conspiracy?
I don't think most Truthers think through the consequences of these claims. Yankee451, like many, reject whole swaths of evidence based on suspicion of complicity without realizing how many different people would be required to maintain the secrets.
  • The Purdue FEA? "Purdue made it up" is the response, even though that implicates the entire CS department of a major university.
  • Pictures of airplane parts? Taken by the NYPD (false, but don't look behind that curtain), and because a couple of people have attempted to get financial recompense via comp claims the Entire NYPD is suspect, so the airplane parts get rejected.
  • Video? You saw it on "TeeVee" and who's dumb enough to believe that? Thus, the entire news media is implicated.
  • Librarians at the Pentagon: are you serious? Every single man, woman and Civil Servant in there is guilty
  • Military? Oh, yeah, like you can believe what THEY say, adding another couple million mouths that have magically stayed shut for 13 years.
  • Eye witnesses on the streets of NY? They "look like movie extras" so there must not be any witnesses at all in a city of millions.

Pretty soon everyone but the Conspiracy Theorist is, by implication, in on the secret.

Last edited by Jrrarglblarg; 23rd January 2014 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 04:50 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by fess View Post
Why would they be planting evidence after the crash?
It's simple, they are planting the debris after the explosion and the fire department has arrived. You are much less likely to be spotted planting large pieces of aircraft aluminum with dozens of first responders on scene and the rush hour traffic at a stand still looking at the site. That is a far more reasonable conclusion than they are actually moving the debris from an actual plane. It makes sense if you don't think about it.
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Old 24th January 2014, 05:57 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
I don't think most Truthers think through the consequences of these claims. Yankee451, like many, reject whole swaths of evidence based on suspicion of complicity without realizing how many different people would be required to maintain the secrets.
  • The Purdue FEA? "Purdue made it up" is the response, even though that implicates the entire CS department of a major university.
  • Pictures of airplane parts? Taken by the NYPD (false, but don't look behind that curtain), and because a couple of people have attempted to get financial recompense via comp claims the Entire NYPD is suspect, so the airplane parts get rejected.
  • Video? You saw it on "TeeVee" and who's dumb enough to believe that? Thus, the entire news media is implicated.
  • Librarians at the Pentagon: are you serious? Every single man, woman and Civil Servant in there is guilty
  • Military? Oh, yeah, like you can believe what THEY say, adding another couple million mouths that have magically stayed shut for 13 years.
  • Eye witnesses on the streets of NY? They "look like movie extras" so there must not be any witnesses at all in a city of millions.

Pretty soon everyone but the Conspiracy Theorist is, by implication, in on the secret.
As an aside on the "they look like movie extras" bit, isn't that kind of the POINT of movie extras? That they're supposed to look like Joe Average to give the movies some realism? So what, exactly, is the problem with the inverse being true - that a crowd of Joe and Jane Averages looks like movie extras?
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Old 24th January 2014, 06:19 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by thedopefishlives View Post
As an aside on the "they look like movie extras" bit, isn't that kind of the POINT of movie extras? That they're supposed to look like Joe Average to give the movies some realism? So what, exactly, is the problem with the inverse being true - that a crowd of Joe and Jane Averages looks like movie extras?
Oh crap. That means anybody who looks like an average person might actually be a movie extra.
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Old 24th January 2014, 07:29 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Oh crap. That means anybody who looks like an average person might actually be a movie extra.
On the bright side, it's something else to add to your c.v. "Average person" = "Fully qualified movie extra". Probably pays better than "paid shill for big (delete as appropriate)...".
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Old 24th January 2014, 07:31 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Oh crap. That means anybody who looks like an average person might actually be a movie extra.
And now that you know the NWO's dirty little secret, you must die.

Or become an operative, which is less painful in the short term but quite a bit more so in the long term.
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Old 24th January 2014, 10:38 AM   #99
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Wonder if Gage's organization helps foster this kind of fantasy. Who is dumbed down enough to believe this tripe? Boston Bombers.

Anti-intellectual claptrap like this is against the charter of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America..._of_Architects

Gage is a member of AIA; why has AIA failed to drop him. They hold education and professionalism as part of their charter.

memberservices@aia.org
I asked them why they allow their member to spread lies about the USA.

Quote:
Thank you for contacting the American Institute of Architects, Member & Component Support Department.

One of our associates will respond to you as quickly as possible.

For your records, please retain your ticket number for future reference.

Our goal is to respond to your email within 24-48 hours.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,

AIA Member & Component Support
Ticket Information:Ticket #:10338154Date Created:1/24/2014 12:12 AM ESTSummary:Fraud and lies about 911Details:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archite...for_9/11_Truth


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archite...for_9/11_Truth
Why is Gage's hero page free of the fraud and lies he spreads, the core of his existence as a snake oil salesman.
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Old 24th January 2014, 11:01 AM   #100
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It will be interesting to see how they spin the answer.
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Old 24th January 2014, 11:06 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archite...for_9/11_Truth
Why is Gage's hero page free of the fraud and lies he spreads, the core of his existence as a snake oil salesman.
I found an error in the first sentence:

Quote:
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth) is an American non-profit[1][2] organization of architects, engineers, and demolition experts who dispute the results of official investigations into the September 11 attacks,
Shouldn't that be "expert" singular? If I recall. they only have one that claims to have this experience (and I'm being generous giving him that).
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Old 24th January 2014, 12:31 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I found an error in the first sentence:



Shouldn't that be "expert" singular? If I recall. they only have one that claims to have this experience (and I'm being generous giving him that).
Fixed
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Old 24th January 2014, 11:13 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Yankee, I love your Avatar picture, which shows how incredibly light the construction of the WTC Towers were (relative to their size). 95% air, structurally sound but not impervious to unfought fires etc! I use that berautiful picture to rebuit Gage's claim that the buildings are these unbelievably strong structures. They were actually famous for the amount of open space they created for offices. But in answer to your question about talking to Pentagon librarians... do you now believe that low-level government employees down to the level of librarians are in on the conspiracy? And yes, they are very much worth talking to. In my research I have had phone conversations with NIST and Richard Gage on the same day. That's how you start learning the truth, by talking to EVERYONE.
Everyone not actively fighting it is in on the conspiracy.
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Old 25th January 2014, 12:12 AM   #104
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whateves, troll

[/yankee451 even pretending]
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Old 25th January 2014, 07:16 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Everyone not actively fighting it is in on the conspiracy.
If you're not with us, you're against us
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:28 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
If you're not with us, you're against us
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:00 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
So your recommendation is to talk to the librarians at the library of the headquarters of the military to get the truth about information that was supplied by the military and only furthers the plans of the military?

I can't imagine very many people at the Pentagon don't have some connection to the US military, so if that's all it takes for you to discount their testimony, then you've got a convenient way of discounting the testimony of all the Pentagon witnesses.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:09 AM   #108
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Truthers collectively couldn't with their combined resources and efforts couldn't prove water can turn into ice. They are that inept.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:12 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I can't imagine very many people at the Pentagon don't have some connection to the US military, so if that's all it takes for you to discount their testimony, then you've got a convenient way of discounting the testimony of all the Pentagon witnesses.
Let's think about this for a moment.

A secretary, librarian, guard or other lower lever employee at the Pentagon runs to the scene and sees no sign of a jet crash but smells cordite and actually says as much in an interview at the scene. These employees know there was no 757 crash but when they go home they flick on the TeeVee and see the media, the Preznit, the SecDef, the Joint Chiefs and the media's military "analysts" all talking about the plane that hit the Pentagon. Being Pentagon employees these folks aren't stupid people, so it would be obvious that it would be best for their continued employment (to say the least) to hop on the "planes dunnit" bandwagon.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:15 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Truthers collectively couldn't with their combined resources and efforts couldn't prove water can turn into ice. They are that inept.
Most of the truth movement is there to ensure there will never be any combined resources. I'm betting those are the only "truthers' you've ever met.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:40 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Let's think about this for a moment.

A secretary, librarian, guard or other lower lever employee at the Pentagon runs to the scene and sees no sign of a jet crash but smells cordite and actually says as much in an interview at the scene. These employees know there was no 757 crash but when they go home they flick on the TeeVee and see the media, the Preznit, the SecDef, the Joint Chiefs and the media's military "analysts" all talking about the plane that hit the Pentagon. Being Pentagon employees these folks aren't stupid people, so it would be obvious that it would be best for their continued employment (to say the least) to hop on the "planes dunnit" bandwagon.
That really makes sense to you?

Every one of thousands of people are so insecure in life, so dependent on their employment with the Pentagon that they fall in step with a huge conspiracy that involves the murder of thousands, without even needing to be briefed and told this is what is expected of them?

These people are "not stupid", as you say, implying they'd have to be stupid not to go along with the conspiracy, but people are stupid all the time. Even smart people can act stupid, or do stupid things because they are traumatized. You're claiming that every one of thousands of people had the exact same reaction, a sudden unspoken realization that they needed to play along or suffer dire consequences.

Further, in the subsequent dozen years, not one whistle-blower among them has come forward?!

Sorry, dude. Just doesn't seem even remotely plausible to me.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:43 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
One person said it's impossible and I'd like to know why.

Do you have any proof the plane parts weren't planted?
I actually do.

Lots and lots of video and eye-witnesses that show the airplanes hitting the buildings.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Impossible because someone would report it?

Who would they report it to, praytell?
The media, if no one else.
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Old 25th January 2014, 01:18 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Why would they touch any of the plane parts. Wasn't there an effort to photograph the crime scene as it was? Why did cleanup commence prior to rescue efforts?
You seem to think that having a lot of questions about how things happened is the same as having evidence that they happened your way. It's not. It only demonstrates that you don't understand everything that was going on. That's normal, I'm sure most people don't, but not understanding everything is not evidence of a conspiracy.

I'm certainly not an expert, but looking at your questions:

1) I can't think of any reason not to touch the plane parts.

2) There may or may not have been an effort to photograph the "crime scene", but it seems to me doing so would have been a low priority. If you come upon a crime scene where there were no witnesses, then yeah, you take a lot of pictures so you can piece together what happened. When something crashes into a building, pictures of every scrap of wreckage doesn't seem (to me) to be particularly helpful.

3) I don't know that cleanup did commence prior to rescue efforts. I don't see why cleanup and rescue couldn't be done at the same time. One person even suggested that picking up plane parts may have been done to facilitate rescue by clearing a path for emergency vehicles.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
True believers are pushovers for authority to manipulate. They believe authority by virtue of their authority. Power corrupts sure, but the more important lesson is the corrupt seek power.
On the other hand, if you believe authority is always corrupt just because it is authority and always disbelieve what authority tells you, doesn't that make you a "true believer" too?

I personally can think of many examples where authority has been deceitful, but that doesn't mean it's always deceitful or even mostly deceitful. You need evidence, not just speculation.
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Old 25th January 2014, 01:43 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Let's think about this for a moment.

A secretary, librarian, guard or other lower lever employee at the Pentagon runs to the scene and sees no sign of a jet crash but smells cordite and actually says as much in an interview at the scene. These employees know there was no 757 crash but when they go home they flick on the TeeVee and see the media, the Preznit, the SecDef, the Joint Chiefs and the media's military "analysts" all talking about the plane that hit the Pentagon. Being Pentagon employees these folks aren't stupid people, so it would be obvious that it would be best for their continued employment (to say the least) to hop on the "planes dunnit" bandwagon.
What about visitors to the Pentagon that day? What about all the people nearby?

What about you evidencing your claims?
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Old 25th January 2014, 03:22 PM   #115
yankee451
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
What about visitors to the Pentagon that day? What about all the people nearby?

What about you evidencing your claims?
I have. Photos of people planting evidence.
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Old 25th January 2014, 03:27 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I have. Photos of people planting evidence.
No you don't.

Wait, I bet we're supposed to just believe you.
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:35 PM   #117
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Does anyone here find it at all curious how a couple or so pieces of lightweight aluminum
with large profiles end up a long distance away from where the impact occurred?
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:38 PM   #118
cantonear1968
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
Does anyone here find it at all curious how a couple or so pieces of lightweight aluminum
with large profiles end up a long distance away from where the impact occurred?
Are you being serious?

No. With the energy equivalent of over 500 Kgs of TNT, I don't find it curious at all.
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:40 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
Does anyone here find it at all curious how a couple or so pieces of lightweight aluminum
with large profiles end up a long distance away from where the impact occurred?
You mean what was left of the plane after the "wings folded back" and tunneled through the build...hahahah....sorry, I thought I could get that out without laughing. No seriously, I get what you mean but I don't imagine the JREF brigade will...what big pieces are you referring to?
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:41 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
I have one question about this: I have read CIT's explanation about the downed light poles and how they could have been put off the side of the road night before in preparation of Bush's helicopter. Does anyone know how they explained the light pole in Lloyd's taxi? This one was in the middle of the road. Hoe could it be there if planted the night before? And was Lloyd's windshield smashed after the fact or was he driving down the road with it already smashed?

I haven't seen them explain either of these points. Thanks!
I'm sorry to be a pain with this, but I have read a lot about CIT and I didn't see them address this beyond "He's in on it!".

Anyone ever come across this?
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