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Old 25th January 2014, 04:43 PM   #121
cantonear1968
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You mean what was left of the plane after the "wings folded back" and tunneled through the build...hahahah....sorry, I thought I could get that out without laughing. No seriously, I get what you mean but I don't imagine the JREF brigade will...what big pieces are you referring to?
No.

It's what happened to the wings after impacting a cement building at 460 mph.

Which, as I said, has the energy equivalent of 500 Kgs of TNT.
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:51 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
No.

What happened to the wings after impacting a cement building at 460 mph.

Which, as I said, has the energy equivalent of 500 Kgs of TNT.
Which would have destroyed the weakest impacting body first which would be the jet. So what burrowed through the brick and concrete facade, mowed down a forest of reinforced concrete pillars and punched a 12 foot circular exit hole before vanishing into thin air?
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:54 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Which would have destroyed the weakest impacting body first which would be the jet. So what burrowed through the brick and concrete facade, mowed down a forest of reinforced concrete pillars and punched a 12 foot circular exit hole before vanishing into thin air?
A 757.

Was this supposed to be a trick question?
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:56 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
A 757.

Was this supposed to be a trick question?
No, he wants you to ignore all the evidence like he does.
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:57 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You mean what was left of the plane after the "wings folded back" and tunneled through the build...hahahah....sorry, I thought I could get that out without laughing. No seriously, I get what you mean but I don't imagine the JREF brigade will...what big pieces are you referring to?
I'm referring to the lightweight-with-large-profile pieces of aluminum those white-shirted guys with black ties were picking up from the lawn a long ways away from where the impact occurred. You know, the long distance they would have had to travel through the near sea level air while being lightweight with a large profile.
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Old 25th January 2014, 04:59 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
I'm referring to the lightweight-with-large-profile pieces of aluminum those white-shirted guys with black ties were picking up from the lawn a long ways away from where the impact occurred. You know, the long distance they would have had to travel through the near sea level air while being lightweight with a large profile.
How far is "a long ways" in feet? You can show your work, right?

Surely you know or you wouldn't have made this claim.
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Old 25th January 2014, 05:16 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
How far is "a long ways" in feet? You can show your work, right?

Surely you know or you wouldn't have made this claim.

Looks like a long ways away to me.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_Pentagon.jpg
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Old 25th January 2014, 05:17 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
I'm referring to the lightweight-with-large-profile pieces of aluminum those white-shirted guys with black ties were picking up from the lawn a long ways away from where the impact occurred. You know, the long distance they would have had to travel through the near sea level air while being lightweight with a large profile.
How far is "a long ways" in feet? You can show your work, right?

Surely you know or you wouldn't have made this claim.
Credit where credit is due - he at least recognises that the plane crashed there.

So the issue ceases to be about 'was planted' and becomes 'was moved' - if david's half formed concerns about the travel distance have any basis in reality.
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Old 25th January 2014, 05:18 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
Looks like a long ways away to me.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_Pentagon.jpg
You don't know exactly? How can you claim it shouldn't be there?

Is it a hopeful guess?
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Old 25th January 2014, 05:25 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Credit where credit is due - he at least recognises that the plane crashed there.

So the issue ceases to be about 'was planted' and becomes 'was moved' - if david's half formed concerns about the travel distance have any basis in reality.
You're really being generous here. (especially for an engineer). Do you have your lawyer hat on?
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Old 25th January 2014, 05:39 PM   #131
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To answer the original question:

No, there is no proof, and no proof has been presented by any credible source.

Would you like a quality illustration of the logistics behind moving and staging a plane crash? I thought you would, here is what it took to stage the crash for the TV series "Lost":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wOuZiRBSzo

Take note of the number of people involved and the size of the various containers and trucks involved. Remember, you also have to account for the missing aircraft, all of their parts have to match, which means you have to counterfeit 3 passenger jets.

Then there are the passengers.
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:05 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Credit where credit is due - he at least recognises that the plane crashed there.

So the issue ceases to be about 'was planted' and becomes 'was moved' - if david's half formed concerns about the travel distance have any basis in reality.


Ozeco, thank you for the credit. I am a little bit surprised, however. You seemingly are always very precise and careful with what you write. But here, you are giving me "due" credit for something I didn't do.
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:16 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Which would have destroyed the weakest impacting body first which would be the jet. So what burrowed through the brick and concrete facade, mowed down a forest of reinforced concrete pillars and punched a 12 foot circular exit hole before vanishing into thin air?
A jet airliner fuselage is 180' long. On contact with concrete wall both wall and fuselage will absorb kinetic energy as elastic deformation. Concrete, not being "elastic" won't stretch, bend, flex or otherwise absorb the energy in anything other than shattering, as concrete tends to do. At first the concrete will resist breakage but the rest of the fuselage is continuing forward, despite any breakage at the front, at 500mph.

An airplane is not a hollow tube. The thin exterior skin covers floors, seats, luggage, fuel tanks, fuel, spars, human bodies, doors, plexiglass windows and any number of structural components.

One hundred eighty feet of fuselage and contents at 500 mph pass by any one spot in the universe in less than 1/4 of one second. That is not very much time for structure to absorb and redistribute energy into other supporting mass. Thus, the walls broke.

Even after the airplane has shattered into a tangle of fuel-covered bloody wreckage, that wreckage is still traveling forward at some percentage of 500mph. How much? I could goatse up numbers just like CTists do but the right way to do it is crunch the numbers in a computer. This is called a Finite Element Analysis if done by simulating large numbers of physical objects with dimensions and material properties. Now unless you are prepared to back the claim that the entire Dep't of Computer Science of Purdue University is in on the conspiracy, AND can show actual data of your own that contradicts their data, the Purdue FEA stands.
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:37 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
Ozeco, thank you for the credit. I am a little bit surprised, however. You seemingly are always very precise and careful with what you write. But here, you are giving me "due" credit for something I didn't do.
A smile? For the thousands murdered while you spread lies?

Have you retracted your lies yet?
http://www.opednews.com/Diary/9-11-H...80324-705.html

You failed to provide any proof of your claims. Why can't you remove the silly lies you made up about the murder of thousands?
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:40 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
A 757.

Was this supposed to be a trick question?
Nope, you responded predictably.
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:42 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
I'm referring to the lightweight-with-large-profile pieces of aluminum those white-shirted guys with black ties were picking up from the lawn a long ways away from where the impact occurred. You know, the long distance they would have had to travel through the near sea level air while being lightweight with a large profile.
I'm more interested in how much of the hollow fuselage was left to be able to punch a 12 foot exit hole before vanishing into thin air.
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:43 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Nope, you responded predictably.
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:49 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I'm more interested in how much of the hollow fuselage was left to be able to punch a 12 foot exit hole before vanishing into thin air.
All of it would still be available, most of it still at full speed. Your use of the term "hollow fuselage" is dishonest.
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:49 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
Ozeco, thank you for the credit. I am a little bit surprised, however. You seemingly are always very precise and careful with what you write. But here, you are giving me "due" credit for something I didn't do.
Is that to say you don't believe a mostly hollow aluminum jet cut down street lights, bored through the Pentagon's brick and concrete facade, mowed down a forest of reinforced concrete pillars and punched a circular exit hole before vanishing into thin air?

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Old 25th January 2014, 06:50 PM   #140
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FEA, Steve. Can you refute it without armwaving, innuendo or speculation?
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:53 PM   #141
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I particularly like the use of the phrase "vanishing into thin air". Makes the assertion *so* much more believable...
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:54 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
All of it would still be available, most of it still at full speed. Your use of the term "hollow fuselage" is dishonest.

A fuselage is not a battering ram. Does the mass of the contents of the hollow fuselage add density to the hollow fuselage in Randi World?

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Old 25th January 2014, 06:55 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
I particularly like the use of the phrase "vanishing into thin air". Makes the assertion *so* much more believable...
Would you prefer 'disappeared without a trace?"
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Old 25th January 2014, 06:59 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
A fuselage is not a battering ram. Does the mass of the contents of the hollow fuselage add density to the hollow fuselage in Randi World?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...llo-inside.png
quoted for posterity, before you realise what a monumental cock-up you just made, and change the question.
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Old 25th January 2014, 07:00 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Would you prefer 'disappeared without a trace?"
Still a lie.
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Old 25th January 2014, 07:00 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
quoted for posterity, before you realise what a monumental cock-up you just made, and change the question.
I stand by everything I say.

Shall I repeat the question or will you attempt to change the subject again?
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Old 25th January 2014, 07:02 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
A fuselage is not a battering ram. Does the mass of the contents of the hollow fuselage add density to the hollow fuselage in Randi World?

[qimsnip]
Yes. Internal mass adds density to the hollow fuselage.

Hey, here's a number you can goatse for us: How many feet of a passenger jet fuselage would be crushed slamming into an imaginary unbreakable target?
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Old 25th January 2014, 07:11 PM   #148
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... thus, massless air, extra special physics, massless air, who knew

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Old 25th January 2014, 07:54 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Yes. Internal mass adds density to the hollow fuselage.

Hey, here's a number you can goatse for us: How many feet of a passenger jet fuselage would be crushed slamming into an imaginary unbreakable target?
Not in the way you're implying. You're talking about the pressure inside the fuselage. I'm talking about the people, seats, fixtures, etc. They don't add density but they do add a lot of the weight used in the "math problems" you lot like to toss around. Pressure would only be a factor until the thin aluminum fuselage was breached, which would be shortly after the radome disintegrated against the brick and concrete facade.
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Old 25th January 2014, 07:57 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
All of it would still be available, most of it still at full speed. Your use of the term "hollow fuselage" is dishonest.
I might add that the tube contained air moving at about twice the speed of a strong tornado. No joke. The air would not be able to disburse out of the plane sideways through its body fast enough. It would act like how you can jab a hollow straw through a potato, supposedly by plugging the rear end of the straw, trapping the air inside.
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:19 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
A fuselage is not a battering ram. Does the mass of the contents of the hollow fuselage add density to the hollow fuselage in Randi World?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...llo-inside.png
So predictable.
To prove planes are hollow, you produce an image of an airplane full of crap.

Stop the charade.
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:31 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Not in the way you're implying. You're talking about the pressure inside the fuselage. I'm talking about the people, seats, fixtures, etc. They don't add density but they do add a lot of the weight used in the "math problems" you lot like to toss around. Pressure would only be a factor until the thin aluminum fuselage was breached, which would be shortly after the radome disintegrated against the brick and concrete facade.
Well density = mass/volume. So if you take a hollow tube and fill it with stuff you will increase the total mass while the volume remains unchanged.

That would mean an increase in density.

And and for reference, "people, seats, fixtures, etc." would be "stuff" in this explanation.
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:37 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Loonatic93 View Post
Well density = mass/volume. So if you take a hollow tube and fill it with stuff you will increase the total mass while the volume remains unchanged.

That would mean an increase in density.

And and for reference, "people, seats, fixtures, etc." would be "stuff" in this explanation.
So the people bouncing round inside the cabin on seats attached to tracks along the floor add density to the aluminum shell. Interesting.
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:42 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Is that to say you don't believe a mostly hollow aluminum jet cut down street lights, bored through the Pentagon's brick and concrete facade, mowed down a forest of reinforced concrete pillars and punched a circular exit hole before vanishing into thin air?
That "punch out hole" is so nicely rounded. I am impressed! I wonder, just what was it from the boeing 757 that made such a nice round hole after going through so much of the newly reinforced section of the Pentagon? Wouldn't it have to be a large, round "something" from a boeing 757?
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:49 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
So the people bouncing round inside the cabin on seats attached to tracks along the floor add density to the aluminum shell. Interesting.
Scoring Internet Points by obfuscating does disservice to truth
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:51 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Scoring Internet Points by obfuscating does disservice to truth
Woooow...now that's the pot calling the kettle black right there.
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:54 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
So the people bouncing round inside the cabin on seats attached to tracks along the floor add density to the aluminum shell. Interesting.
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Not in the way you're implying. You're talking about the pressure inside the fuselage. I'm talking about the people, seats, fixtures, etc. They don't add density but they do add a lot of the weight used in the "math problems" you lot like to toss around. Pressure would only be a factor until the thin aluminum fuselage was breached, which would be shortly after the radome disintegrated against the brick and concrete facade.
Stop dodging my question and tell me how many feet of jet would be crushed by the concrete wall.
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Old 25th January 2014, 08:59 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Woooow...now that's the pot calling the kettle black right there.
That could be it! There was a large round black kettle in the 757!
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Old 25th January 2014, 09:03 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by david.watts View Post
That could be it! There was a large round black kettle in the 757!


DING DING DING!
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Old 25th January 2014, 09:06 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Stop dodging my question and tell me how many feet of jet would be crushed by the concrete wall.
Sorry, what? Why do you ask?
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International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

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