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Old 22nd April 2016, 02:49 PM   #281
waypastvne
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Other than two pieces of angle iron protruding where there should have been one truss damper, which would arguably be a weaker connection than the main truss seat, you mean.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...scoelastic.png

You need to look again they are not angles, they are T sections. Just like the ones on the viscoelastic dampers.



The dampers failed at its weakest point, the elastic layer.

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Old 22nd April 2016, 02:53 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
That is not the top of the spandrel plate. The top of the spandrel ends on the right hand edge of the "spandrels bent in opposite direction" box.
agreed

Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
The dampers look exactly as they should look, if they fail at rubber connection.
Agreed - the more I learn the less I know.

Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
Yes concrete is sturdy.
Judging by the indentation to the steel, it didn't fall from 1000 feet.


Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
Yes the spandrels are bent in the direction of the ground impact forces.
Well we have what, 6 tons or so of steel that fell 1000 vertical feet while flying a few hundred horizontal feet. Judging by the indentation in the steel where it struck the curb, it didn't bounce much and it didn't strike the concrete hard enough to do any damage to it at all, so I'd have to say that sounds pretty farfetched. Kudos on the other points you made though.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 02:55 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
You need to look again they are not angles, they are T sections. Just like ones on the viscoelastic dampers.

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/a...C11%20copy.jpg

The dampers failed at its weakest point, the elastic layer.
Yeah - saw that too, but only now does it all sink in. I am a slow learner - thanks for your patience. I will add them to the model, along with the truss straps.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:02 PM   #284
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Thank you for actually reading my replies, and looking at the photos.

Bob.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:06 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
Thank you for actually reading my replies, and looking at the photos.

Bob.
Much obliged, really. All I'm after is accuracy.

Steve
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:10 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Fortune favors the audacious.
Yes, that's true; those prepared to risk everything on a simple bold stroke can often get away with it if they move fast enough because nobody anticipated their trying anything so audacious.

Do you think 9/11 was a simple bold stroke?

You don't tend to hear people say 'fortune favours the insanely complex and Byzantine plot requiring the simultaneous execution of at least six impossible things before breakfast'.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:12 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post

Judging by the indentation to the steel, it didn't fall from 1000 feet.
So you were at the site and inspected the damage to the concrete (and pavement), when? Can you share your data?
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:20 PM   #288
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How did they unload the 6 tons of steel from the truck?
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:30 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
So you were at the site and inspected the damage to the concrete (and pavement), when? Can you share your data?
It is my opinion. Steel is pretty heavy duty too and not nearly as brittle as concrete is.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:31 PM   #290
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Your opinion, based on layman's understanding and looking at a couple of pix found on the Internet.

How did they unload the panel, Steve?
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:32 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
It is my opinion. Steel is pretty heavy duty too and not nearly as brittle as concrete is.
What is your technical background that would lead anyone to value your opinion? You have no real knowledge on site conditions so how can you comment on the concrete strength? Thanks for confirming you have no real data on the site damage.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:37 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
What is your technical background that would lead anyone to value you opinion? Thanks for confirming you have no real data on the site damage.
I value your opinions too.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:39 PM   #293
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If you are wondering what the crazy bent pipe is, thats about 60' of the WTC sprinkler system.



If you look closely at the pipe you can see joints where the sprinkler heads attached. Apparently the landing gear went through one of the main stand pipes coming from the water supply stored near the roof.

Have you ever seen the video of the water from the stand pipe, poring out of the hole, where this panel used to be ?

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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:40 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I value your opinions too. Steel is pretty heavy duty too and not nearly as brittle as concrete is.
That doesn't answer me question. I'm a builder with 40 years experience so I know materials fairly well. I think you don't.
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Old 22nd April 2016, 03:47 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
It is my opinion. Steel is pretty heavy duty too and not nearly as brittle as concrete is.
Do you think it fell several hundreds of metres directly on that curb?

I don't think the fall on the curb was much more than 10 metres. It most probably fell several metres away from that place and bounced around there until it settled. That would explain the deformations too. No hammers necessary.

Your opinion fails to consider that obvious factor.

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Old 22nd April 2016, 04:05 PM   #296
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How was it unloaded from the truck?

What happened to the panel missing from the building (damage visible in films snd photographs after the impact) if this one is a fake?
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Old 22nd April 2016, 06:59 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The mind boggles at how huge this conspiracy is, doesn't it. But that's the nature of the big lie.
That series of photos was shot before the South Tower was struck at 9:03 AM. The North Tower was hit at 8:46 AM.

Even with 1,000 men, there's no way to move that much stuff:

Steel outer frame
12+ damaged vehicles.
Additional steel pieces
Assorted debris

...not in 19 minutes.
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Old 24th April 2016, 02:54 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Yeah, maybe they would have reported them to the media that broadcast the fake planes, or to the police that planted the plane parts, or to the military that launched the missiles. Maybe they could have gone to the government, or to the Mayor's office, or hey, how about the Port Authority Police. Someone would talk - pffffft!
The media is in on it.

The police are in on it.

The military is in on in.

The Mayor's office and the Port Authority Police are in on it.

Rather than enlisting the aid of literally hundreds of thousands of people and then trusting they will all keep a secret forever, wouldn't it just be easier to fly an airplane into the World Trade Center in order to make it look like the World Trade Center had been hit by an airplane?

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
you have a dizzying intellect
I'm sure it seems that way from some perspectives.
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Old 24th April 2016, 03:03 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The mind boggles at how huge this conspiracy is, doesn't it. But that's the nature of the big lie.

Fortune favors the audacious.
In what way does anyone benefit from this?
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Old 24th April 2016, 03:53 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The mind boggles at how huge this conspiracy is, doesn't it. But that's the nature of the big lie.

Fortune favors the audacious.
I suspect your conspiracy, your claims are contained in ~1260 cubic centimeters (cm3). And the Big lie is large part of that volume close to 1260 cm3


Is ~1260 cm3 huge?
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Old 24th April 2016, 05:46 PM   #301
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The curb stone are granite and they are usually 3' deep...

Why do you assume the panel landed flat? It's a pretty good bet that regardless of how it first hit the ground... it toppled over to horizontal and not much force doing that... not enough to destroy the curb stone.
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Old 27th April 2016, 08:26 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
If you are wondering what the crazy bent pipe is, thats about 60' of the WTC sprinkler system.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps7r5xirp1.jpg

If you look closely at the pipe you can see joints where the sprinkler heads attached. Apparently the landing gear went through one of the main stand pipes coming from the water supply stored near the roof.

Have you ever seen the video of the water from the stand pipe, poring out of the hole, where this panel used to be ?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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No I haven't seen that video, thank you. What is the original source?

There must have been quite a few broken pipes considering the miles of plumbing that would be required to service 220 acres of office space, but the hole where you are saying that panel flew from isn't at all clear. Can you provide a clear image or video of the place where that panel in the street allegedly flew from? The claim is that the aluminum jet cut through the steel of the north face and pushed out a wall panel in it's entirety. That would include all the bolts on the spandrels as well as those connecting the column ends and the trusses which you have made clear would have broken at their weakest points.

When looking at the wall panel in the street it can be seen that the spandrels are bent in the wrong direction that they should have been bent had that panel actually been pushed out from the inside, to which you responded that it was the force of that panel falling flat on the pavement that caused the spandrel ends to fold down. This despite the fact that the bottom of the box column where it hit the curb is only slightly bent. My point is that if the steel was so soft to have folded so easily at the spandrel I would think it would have been soft enough to have been severely damaged by the curb, not to mention the impact of whatever jet debris had the force to snap all of the bolts simultaneously and still propel six tons of steel for hundreds of feet. It seems to me that you're trying to have it both ways.

Which brings me to the truss straps.

These straps are arguably one of the weakest points of the truss system, agreed?

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Old 27th April 2016, 08:30 AM   #303
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Fringe reset with a Gish gallop. How very.
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Old 27th April 2016, 08:41 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
The curb stone are granite and they are usually 3' deep...

Why do you assume the panel landed flat? It's a pretty good bet that regardless of how it first hit the ground... it toppled over to horizontal and not much force doing that... not enough to destroy the curb stone.
So it fell roughly 1000 feet and smacked the ground so hard that it folded all the spandrel ends flat against the box columns but didn't severely damage the pavement or columns it landed on. Check.
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Old 27th April 2016, 08:47 AM   #305
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How did they unload the panel from the truck, Steve?
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Old 27th April 2016, 09:11 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The mind boggles at how huge this conspiracy is, doesn't it. But that's the nature of the big lie.
That's the nature of conspiracy theories: make the conspiracy ever bigger in order to hide its flaws. Flaws, you say? Why, that's just one more layer of conspiracy!
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Old 27th April 2016, 09:24 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's the nature of conspiracy theories: make the conspiracy ever bigger in order to hide its flaws. Flaws, you say? Why, that's just one more layer of conspiracy!
That's the nature of the true believers, to believe big lies.
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Old 27th April 2016, 09:27 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
That's the nature of the true believers, to believe big lies.
But how did the conspirators unload the panel from the truck?
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Old 27th April 2016, 09:32 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
So it fell roughly 1000 feet and smacked the ground so hard that it folded all the spandrel ends flat against the box columns but didn't severely damage the pavement or columns it landed on. Check.
We don't know what became of the panels on either side of it. You say the panel ends should be folded the other way, but that assumes the panel was pushed out while those on either side stayed in place. We don't know that.

You own explanation appears to be that in the minutes between the two towers being struck, a truck pulled up and unloaded it onto the ground, whereupon it was beaten with hammers until the ends were flattened the 'wrong' way. Is that in fact your claim?
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Old 27th April 2016, 09:38 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
That's the nature of the true believers, to believe big lies.
You know what a big lie is?

That the conspirators could have planted evidence. How'd they get the panel off the truck?
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Old 27th April 2016, 09:45 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
We don't know what became of the panels on either side of it. You say the panel ends should be folded the other way, but that assumes the panel was pushed out while those on either side stayed in place. We don't know that.

You own explanation appears to be that in the minutes between the two towers being struck, a truck pulled up and unloaded it onto the ground, whereupon it was beaten with hammers until the ends were flattened the 'wrong' way. Is that in fact your claim?
Nope. Talk about assumptions.

I don't assume they staged that column in the street in minutes. I think the evidence is pretty clear that the perpetrators had unfettered access to the whole complex, not to mention all the street access and had plenty of time to get their stage set.
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Old 27th April 2016, 09:54 AM   #312
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But how did they unload the truck? Crane? Dump bed? Manual laborers from the Homedepot parking lot?

I'm very concerned. My entire belief system is hinging on this one question.
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Old 27th April 2016, 10:02 AM   #313
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How was it unloaded from the truck?

How long did it take?

Why did they need to hit it with hammers?

Why didn't anyone see this strange activity?

Who made the panel?

Why did they get its construction wrong?

What happened to the panel that is missing from the building?
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Old 27th April 2016, 10:48 AM   #314
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Seems to me an easier method would be to smear some Hush-a-boom on the connections between this panel and the others near it to blow it off like an airplane canopy on ejection.
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:17 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I don't assume they staged that column in the street in minutes. I think the evidence is pretty clear that the perpetrators had unfettered access to the whole complex, not to mention all the street access and had plenty of time to get their stage set.
No, they didn't. Not in Manhattan on a Tuesday morning, not in under 19 minutes, which is all the time that they had. 100,000+ people working in that area.

There is no way, even with 2,000 men, 4 cranes, and 20 trucks. No way at all.

It's not a movie set, you can't move heavy equipment in NYC on an average day without at least 50 calls to multiple agencies from angry New Yorkers. Every call is logged.

Your theory isn't just weak, it's non-existent. Unsustainable in the real world.
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:35 AM   #316
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Maybe that would be a better experiment than a crash test. Build a section of wall panel, put it on a truck and see how practical it is to drive it into lower Manhattan in rush hour on a Tuesday. See if you can unload it in the street without being challenged for bonus points.
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:42 AM   #317
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Lolz
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:44 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
No, they didn't. Not in Manhattan on a Tuesday morning, not in under 19 minutes, which is all the time that they had. 100,000+ people working in that area.
Lol, with the NYPD, FDNY and PA Police involved the perpetrators didn't need to worry about anyone seeing anything they weren't intended to see. No one was expecting any of this to happen except for the perpetrators and no one caught up in the confusion and adrenaline of the moment would have put two and two together anyway, but even if someone did see cops in uniform planting evidence, who would they report it to?

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post

There is no way, even with 2,000 men, 4 cranes, and 20 trucks. No way at all.
There is no way it flew hundreds of feet, and yet there it is.


Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post


It's not a movie set, you can't move heavy equipment in NYC on an average day without at least 50 calls to multiple agencies from angry New Yorkers. Every call is logged.
Actually it was a movie set even before construction was completed, and used as a backdrop for publicity stunts too.

If you examine the images of the area it was found you can see that it would have been easy to block access to the area until the time was right. It's not like New Yorkers aren't accustomed to streets being blocked or anything.

http://yankee451.com/?p=2483
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:49 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Seems to me an easier method would be to smear some Hush-a-boom on the connections between this panel and the others near it to blow it off like an airplane canopy on ejection.
oh man, don't give them any ideas....
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:50 AM   #320
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Were the streets around the WTC complex blocked that day?

How did thry get it off the truck?

Was every Cop in New York in on it?
Are they still all in on it?
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