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Old 31st March 2016, 02:12 AM   #1
FalseFlag
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Why would anyone oppose releasing the oral histories of the 9/11 first responders?

I just found out the the oral histories of 503 9/11 first responders were compiled by the New York Fire Department. I also found out that they were released to the public in 2005, after an appeals court ordered their release. The original request to have the records released was made by the New York Times, but that request was blocked by Mayor Bloomberg.

Here is my question. Why would anyone want to keep these records private?


The oral histories - http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...s_full_01.html

The article discussing the release, and why it took so long.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/12/ny...oday.html?_r=0

The official story is so simple: Planes crash into big buildings. Fire. Collapse. Duh. Another building nearby collapses. Fire. Duh.

If it's so simple, why is there so much secrecy everywhere you look, if you actually choose to look?

One more thing, the article says that most of the records were released. Why hasn't everything been released?

Last edited by FalseFlag; 31st March 2016 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:30 AM   #2
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Quote:
release of certain records would violate the privacy of the dead, or cause emotional distress to the living. The Court of Appeals allowed the oral histories to be edited under a limited set of circumstances. It also refused to order the city to release all of the 911 tapes, saying that the callers' voices should not be made public. The other half of the conversations, involving the operators who spoke with the callers, will eventually be made public.
Privacy, not secrecy. There is an important difference, especially if you want to protect the rights of individuals from snooping.
More details here, which give an idea why those recordings are likely to cause distress to those involved.
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug...ion/na-tapes17
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:33 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Privacy, not secrecy. There is an important difference, especially if you want to protect the rights of individuals from snooping.
More details here, which give an idea why those recordings are likely to cause distress thttp://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/17/nation/na-tapes17o those involved.
OK. 1 vote for privacy.

Here is the next question. Why does a first responder need to protect his or her privacy when recalling the events of 9/11? If privacy was really an issue then it would be easy to make each oral history anonymous.

My opinion is that "privacy" is nothing more than an excuse to hide important information.

Next.
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I just found out the the oral histories of 503 9/11 first responders were compiled by the New York Fire Department. ... ?
You already answered you question...
You have no shame... how does this support the delusional fantasy of CD?
Armed with opinions, no evidence.
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
OK. 1 vote for privacy.

Here is the next question. Why does a first responder need to protect his or her privacy when recalling the events of 9/11? If privacy was really an issue then it would be easy to make each oral history anonymous.

My opinion is that "privacy" is nothing more than an excuse to hide important information.

Next.
Why don't you collect all of your posts about 9/11 in one thread, then post up your name and address and contact numbers and see how you get on.

Are you hiding something ?
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:38 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
You have no shame... how does this support the delusional fantasy of CD?

You come with opinions, you need evidence. 14 years of failure from 911 truth.
I posted evidence. The oral histories were only released when an appeals court ordered their release. Mayor Bloomberg blocked the initial request. What more proof do you need?

You also ask how this supports the delusional fantasy of CD. This is funny, because I have not made any mention of this in this thread. Since you want an answer, 118 first responders claim there were explosions. I will believe their statements long before I believe anything written here by a skeptic.

You also didn't answer the question. Why keep this information secret?
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Why don't you collect all of your posts about 9/11 in one thread, then post up your name and address and contact numbers and see how you get on.

Are you hiding something ?
What is the point of this, other than a distraction? This is completely irrelevant. I am not a 9/11 witness. I was not asked to give a firsthand account of what happened. I am not a public servant.

Your first answer was privacy. Do you have anything else relevant to add?
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I posted evidence. The oral histories were only released when an appeals court ordered their release. Mayor Bloomberg blocked the initial request. What more proof do you need?

You also didn't answer the question. Why keep this information secret?
No one heard explosives on 911, No damage to steel by explosives, no blast damage.

Oh you mean this kind of stuff? Is this it... (no)
Quote:
WTC first responder descriptions of explosive noises well before the towers collapsed:

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
Is this your support for CD? or will you ignore it?
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
LOL, no one heard explosives on 911; proof? No damage to any steel by explosives, no blast damage to anything.
Thus the explosives were not used.

Oh you mean this kind of stuff? Is this it... OMG< are you right?


Is this your support for CD? or will you ignore it?
OK, so you admit there were explosions. Cool.

Now, your next trick is to try to drag me into a discussion about CD. Nope. Not going to happen. We both admit that eyewitnesses heard explosions, but this is not relevant to the purpose of this thread. End of discussion.

You still did not answer my question. Why would anyone want to keep these oral histories secret?
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:50 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
What is the point of this, other than a distraction? This is completely irrelevant. I am not a 9/11 witness. I was not asked to give a firsthand account of what happened. I am not a public servant.

Your first answer was privacy. Do you have anything else relevant to add?
Maybe some people don't want to be hounded by truthers ?

I believe it was you that spoke about your experience in Manhattan with the victims relatives and the older white guy.
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:53 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
OK, so you admit there were explosions. Cool. ...?
Not for you, those were bodies hitting, jumpers; sound like explosions, a simile. No explosives, loud noises. Not evidence for explosives.
Those explosions were bodies hitting the ground and objects; jumping was less painful than burning to death. Sounds of jumpers, sounded like, thus simile is used by 911 truth for CD; not evidence.

CD remain fantasy, there is no evidence; only BS, some Gish Gallop, and questions already answered.
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Maybe some people don't want to be hounded by truthers ?
OK. This goes back to the privacy argument, which really is valid. The solution is to make the statements anonymous. There would be no need whatsoever to block their release if they were anonymous. This could have been done very easily.

Quote:
I believe it was you that spoke about your experience in Manhattan with the victims relatives and the older white guy.
I am not sure where you are getting your information, but your statement is 100 percent not true. There is nothing accurate in it. I have no idea why you associate this with me.
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:56 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
No explosives, loud noises, you don't do research, facts, and have zero evidence.
Proof?
Please prove that every witness who heard an explosion was wrong. Please prove that every "explosion" was a body. Don't do it in this thread; start your own.
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Old 31st March 2016, 02:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I posted evidence. The oral histories were only released when an appeals court ordered their release. Mayor Bloomberg blocked the initial request. What more proof do you need?

You also ask how this supports the delusional fantasy of CD. This is funny, because I have not made any mention of this in this thread. Since you want an answer, 118 first responders claim there were explosions. I will believe their statements long before I believe anything written here by a skeptic.

You also didn't answer the question. Why keep this information secret?
Absolutely right .
Phrases like , delusional fantasy , are often used . Perhaps they hope that deflection and attempted ridicule might cower antagonists .It is a time honoured and routine way of a certain type dealing with people who like to have reasonable questions answered sensibly .
It is a simple fact that all of these people reported what they considered to be explosions .
That overall fact represents one dot among a huge number that point to the official story being a fairy tale .One small dot possibly . But not to be belittled or hidden .
No amount of invective or rhetoric could in itself change my overall view .
I cannot answer the questions you raise because I have no relevant expertise . But I wanted you to know that I do recognise attempted bullying . Pathetic though it is .
I trust that overall you feel the same as I do .

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Old 31st March 2016, 02:59 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
OK. This goes back to the privacy argument, which really is valid. The solution is to make the statements anonymous. There would be no need whatsoever to block their release if they were anonymous. This could have been done very easily.



I am not sure where you are getting your information, but your statement is 100 percent not true. There is nothing accurate in it. I have no idea why you associate this with me.
What if you have recordings of people being killed during the collapse. Would you like to hear them ?

I thought it was you that was in Manhattan with your wife ? Perhaps I will have a look through my posts to see if it was you. Apologise if it wasn't.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:02 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Proof?
Please prove that every witness who heard an explosion was wrong. Please prove that every "explosion" was a body. Don't do it in this thread; start your own.
Those I posted were bodies of jumpers making loud noises... Fact.

Those are oral histories of responders, it is on topic.

No explosives, no evidence. You agree because you have no evidence for explosives.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:02 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Proof?
Please prove that every witness who heard an explosion was wrong. Please prove that every "explosion" was a body. Don't do it in this thread; start your own.

Ah, ye olde "reverse the burden of proof" gambit.

That always works.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:05 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
I cannot answer the questions you raise because I have no relevant expertise .
Why do you need expertise to answer the question I have posed? For this question, opinions are relevant. No expertise is required.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
Absolutely right .
Phrases like , delusional fantasy ,.. .
CD is a delusional fantasy, no evidence to support explosives were used on 911.
Got evidence for explosives destroying the WTC complex? No, fire did it.

No evidence for explosives, same for the vortex and portal claptrap.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:07 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
What if you have recordings of people being killed during the collapse. Would you like to hear them ?
If the recordings happened on 9/11, they are evidence. The evidence could be released anonymously.

Your argument also fails because there are numerous videos of people jumping from the WTC towers, and some of the jumpers have been identified. These videos are public record.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:08 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
Ah, ye olde "reverse the burden of proof" gambit.

That always works.
Gambit? Asking someone to prove their statement is a "gambit"? Wow. This really explains alot. Skeptics can say whatever they want without proof, but a truther has to prove everything. Got it.

Once again, the hypocrisy is unmatched.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
CD is a delusional fantasy, and no one has evidence to support explosives were used on 911. Not you. Got some? no

Got evidence for explosives destroying the WTC? No, never will.

Yes, you don't have any evidence to support the failed claims of 9/11 truth; why.
I can't keep addressing your CD arguments in this thread. If you want to answer my original question then please do so, otherwise I can't continue to derail this thread.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:11 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
If the recordings happened on 9/11, they are evidence. The evidence could be released anonymously.

Your argument also fails because there are numerous videos of people jumping from the WTC towers, and some of the jumpers have been identified. These videos are public record.
If it was anonymous, you'd argue it could be anyone and all made up anyway.

Because that's what you do.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:12 AM   #24
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OK so the recordings have bern released and csn be listened to.

How do they help your case?

I take it you have listened to them or have seen transcripts?
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
...If you want to answer my original question then please do so...
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Privacy, not secrecy. There is an important difference, especially if you want to protect the rights of individuals from snooping...
Been done I think.

Next...
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:13 AM   #26
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Which histories were not released? List them.

No explosives, as you thought bodies hitting the ground were explosions.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:13 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
If it was anonymous, you'd argue it could be anyone and all made up anyway.

Because that's what you do.
You had to dig pretty deep to find this trick, but I can still see right through it. Did you actually have anything productive to add to this conversation?
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:16 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Which histories were not released? List them.
Wow. Just, wow.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:17 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post

I thought it was you that was in Manhattan with your wife ? Perhaps I will have a look through my posts to see if it was you. Apologise if it wasn't.
My mistake Falseflag, It was Jango.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:19 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I can't keep addressing your CD arguments....
Because you have no evidence for CD. And I presented histories from 16 first responders, they heard bodies hitting the ground... sounded like explosives; you got simile, no evidence.

The thread was over when it was explained - clearly... you missed it?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Privacy, not secrecy. ...
More details here, which give an idea why those recordings are likely to cause distress to those involved.
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug...ion/na-tapes17
The sad part is Flaseflag should know this, but ignored - the thread ended before it started; failed logic.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Wow. Just, wow.
That's no answer. Have you got an answer?

BTW, didn't you flounce out of the forum telling us we were all paid shills and hoping our relatives died in the next terrorist attack?
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:20 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
OK so the recordings have bern released and csn be listened to.

How do they help your case?

I take it you have listened to them or have seen transcripts?
I'm not trying to make any case. Please see the question in my first post. If you refuse to answer it then anything else you post is nothing more than an intentional derail.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:21 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Been done I think.

Next...
I looked for a thread discussing this issue. I could not find one.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:22 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I can't keep addressing your CD arguments in this thread. If you want to answer my original question then please do so, otherwise I can't continue to derail this thread.
It is attempted bullying that is derailing matters , imo .


However, this area of explosions being reported by otherwise sane and intelligent people including police and fire fighters , is significant, and is summarised :-
Mark Loizeaux, the head of Controlled Demolition,
Inc., has explained, "---- one needs the right explosive and the right pattern of laying the charges."
The 9/11 oral histories, therefore, create a difficult question for those
who defend the official story: How could terrorists have gotten
access to the Twin Towers for all the hours required to place all the
explosives needed to bring down buildings of that size? It is primarily
because they force this question that the testimony about explosions in the
towers is itself explosive.
Some people , it seems , will do almost anything to keep matters in this area quiet .
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:23 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
That's no answer. Have you got an answer?

BTW, didn't you flounce out of the forum telling us we were all paid shills and hoping our relatives died in the next terrorist attack?
There are threads for CD. If you want to discuss CD, then do so in an appropriate thread.

If you want to start another thread I will answer your question.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:23 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I'm not trying to make any case. Please see the question in my first post. If you refuse to answer it then anything else you post is nothing more than an intentional derail.
You question was answered, thread is done. Now you play the paid card...

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
If you really are an engineer, you're paid to be here. ...
Who is paid to post here? Got evidence; did you miss the correct answer?
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:24 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
It is attempted bullying that is derailing matters , imo .
If you want to discuss bullying please start a new thread.

If you want to discuss CD please do so in an appropriate thread.
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:25 AM   #38
Ape of Good Hope
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Gambit? Asking someone to prove their statement is a "gambit"? Wow. This really explains alot. Skeptics can say whatever they want without proof, but a truther has to prove everything. Got it.

...you won't be providing proof that explosions equal explosives then?
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:27 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Privacy, not secrecy. There is an important difference, especially if you want to protect the rights of individuals from snooping.
Privacy from obnoxious, bullying Truthers would be a big reason for me. Cap't Bob Balsamo of the vanity site "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" fame would begin to spam people in both the cyber world and real life with multiple emails, IP address collections, finding out where you lived, your job, just about everything about you if you disagreed at all with any of his idiotic claims. He did it to me and a number of others here from this board, with people whom I used as references, professionals in the aviation business, everything/everybody.

9/11 Truth is not a serious fact of life in the real world and having half-baked unhinged anger-management-problem types hassle and bully you if you choose to engage is simply not worth it.
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Last edited by Pinch; 31st March 2016 at 03:50 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 31st March 2016, 03:27 AM   #40
beachnut
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
It is attempted bullying that is derailing matters , imo .
However, this area of explosions being reported by otherwise sane and intelligent people including police and fire fighters , is significant, and is summarised :-
Mark Loizeaux, the head of Controlled Demolition,
Inc., has explained, "---- one needs the right explosive and the right pattern of laying the charges."
The 9/11 oral histories, therefore, create a difficult question for those
who defend the official story: How could terrorists have gotten
access to the Twin Towers for all the hours required to place all the
explosives needed to bring down buildings of that size? It is primarily
because they force this question that the testimony about explosions in the
towers is itself explosive.
Some people , it seems , will do almost anything to keep matters in this area quiet .
You have to say bullying since you have no evidence; a smoke screen to attack those who know it was not CD because it was fire.
No damage to the WTC steel from explosives, no evidence.
As for oral histories, which ones say it was explosives which brought down the WTC. Is 911 truth confused by simile; sounds like an explosion; and then the quote mining, and the fantasy of CD pops up out of ignorance, based on simile.

Quote:
WTC first responder descriptions of explosive noises well before the towers collapsed:

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
These first responders heard bodies hitting... "sounded like bombs"... simile

Do you have any first responders who have evidence for explosives? Did you read the histories yet? Read NIST yet?

Is it privacy, or secrecy?
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Last edited by beachnut; 31st March 2016 at 03:54 AM.
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