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Old 1st April 2016, 02:12 AM   #201
Ape of Good Hope
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
This is just a post; it's not a thread. Thanks for finding it, though.

It's the first post in a series of posts on the subject over five pages


Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
It's also worth noting you couldn't pass up the opportunity to attack him personally.

He's long been banned, and is therefore fair game as long as one stays within forum rules.

(Your personal attacks on currently active members (and moderators) of the forum are a different matter)
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Old 1st April 2016, 02:19 AM   #202
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So much dishonesty from FF - it's a truther trait afterall. The question has been answered and the the original justification from the fire department shown, so why continue? You know he's just going to shut his eyes, stick his fingers in his ears and shout lalalala, whist posting single line rubbish. I doubt he's older than 15.

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Old 1st April 2016, 02:23 AM   #203
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It is April the first, perhaps he's building up to a big Lol/Gotcha moment.
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Old 1st April 2016, 02:25 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
It's the first post in a series of posts on the subject over five pages

He's long been banned, and is therefore fair game as long as one stays within forum rules.

(Your personal attacks on currently active members (and moderators) of the forum are a different matter)
Perhaps you would like to start another thread to discuss the issue of personal attacks. I won't do it here.
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Old 1st April 2016, 02:26 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
So much dishonesty from FF - it's a truther trait afterall. The question has been answered and the the original justification from the fire department shown, so why continue? You know he's just going to shut his eyes, stick his fingers in his ears and shout lalalala, whist posting single line rubbish. I doubt he's older than 15.

After reading your post I would like to remind you that sometimes not posting at all is the correct choice.
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Old 1st April 2016, 02:29 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
After reading your post I would like to remind you that sometimes not posting at all is the correct choice.
I think you should practice what you preach.
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Old 1st April 2016, 02:31 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
I think you should practice what you preach.
I do.
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Old 1st April 2016, 02:37 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I do.
Evidence would suggest otherwise. Your post count is huge for the time frame and 99% of it is utter drivel and demonstrates that you have zero educational qualifications to discuss the matters at hand and a complete unwillingness to learn from those that do possess them.

Heck, you couldn't even find the information regarding your OP even though it's been in the public domain for a decade. This is why we laugh at truthers, you're all perfect examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect. No self awareness at all.
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Old 1st April 2016, 03:00 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Perhaps you would like to start another thread to discuss the issue of personal attacks. I won't do it here.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm happy to see how the scenario pans out across multiple existing threads.


Regarding the topic, did you have any thoughts about this:

Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
If by 'they' you mean the city, they also initially refused to let NIST and the 9/11 Commission access the records:


Originally Posted by NYTimes
The city also initially refused access to the records to investigators from both the 9/11 Commission and the National Institute of Standards and Technology, but relented when legal action was threatened.

I feel it demonstrates a degree of even-handedness in its refusal to grant access, no?
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Old 1st April 2016, 05:14 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I'm reposting this once more to answer all of the relevant questions asked since the last time I logged on.

Once again, skeptics go nuts over everything. Here is how this thread would look in a "normal" forum.

OP - Why would anyone block the release of the oral histories of the first reponders?
Any other member - Privacy.
OP - Privacy is a concern, but that concern could be addressed through anonymity.
Any other member - The fire chief blocked the release because he was worried it might interfere with the Moussaoui trial. He changed his position later on.
OP - OK.
OP - So, the only reason anyone is giving is "privacy". This sounds legit, but it's not a reason to block the release. It would be a reason to redact names, but that is all.
Sabrina - That's not enough to protect privacy because (list of reasons).

OP - (ignores it)

Oystein - In the court case the FD provided three reasons, of which privacy was only one: (list of reasons).

OP - (ignores the other two).

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
OP - Since a legitimate reason has not been given as to why the release was blocked, it indicates that someone (Mayor Bloomberg at the very least) wanted to withhold information.
IOW: OP - (claims victory after completely ignoring the reasons given)
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Old 1st April 2016, 05:22 AM   #211
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False Flag, your answer basically boils down to "I don't know".
Now, given that most of the information has now been released, can you yourself think of any reason why TPTB would want to hide it? If the reason was for secrecy not privacy, has anything come to light that you think is significant?
I myself cannot see how anything in those transcripts adds to the overall story of what happened on that tragic day. No smoking guns of government involvement, no sign of a cover-up.
Beyond a rather ghoulish desire to pore over the personal, often heartbreaking reactions of those caught up in the events, I see no good reason to need to know this.
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Old 1st April 2016, 06:15 AM   #212
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Exactly how big do I have to make my text before FF finally acknowledges it?

This big?

This big?

Ah heck with it; I'll go for broke.

*ahem* THE ANONYMITY OF THE FIRST RESPONDERS WOULD NOT BE PROTECTED SIMPLY BY REDACTING THE NAMES IN THEIR TESTIMONY, BECAUSE ONE CAN EASILY INFER WHO THEY ARE FROM THE WRITTEN ACCOUNTS WE HAVE OF FIRST RESPONDERS THAT INDICATE WHERE THEY WERE AND WHAT THEY WERE DOING AT PARTICULAR TIMES. GIVEN THIS, IT BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE TO "ANONYMIZE" THE TESTIMONIES OF THE FIRST RESPONDERS AND THEREFORE THEIR PRIVACY WOULD BE VIOLATED EASILY BY TRUTHERS WANTING TO CONFRONT THEM FOR RIDICULOUS REASONS.

Apologies for yelling, but at this point I'm fairly confident that FF is going to ignore my response to his "anonymity" defense if I don't.
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Old 1st April 2016, 06:30 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
It's a BS answer. I'm also looking for whatever other BS answers you can come up with. There is certainly a possibility someone will say the correct answer, but I doubt it.
Tel us what the correct answer is.
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Old 1st April 2016, 06:36 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
A very large number of people reported the sound of explosions .
A simple fact .
When you hear very loud sounds produced by a pressure wave how would the average person unfamiliar with such sounds made by various objects describe such sounds?
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Old 1st April 2016, 06:43 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Evidence of what?

I share the general confusion about what you think the correct reason for wanting to withhold the recordings is.
Was my answer of privacy correct or not?
If not, what is your own answer?
I also think that your repeated phrasing of this as a "correct" answer is rather presumptuous of you. You are (again) setting yourself up as the holder of all the answers, and the rest of us as humble supplicants at the altar of your omniscience.
Your opinion is as valid or invalid as anyone else's. It is subject to the same scrutiny and evaluation as anyone else's. Its worth should be decided by the logic and evidence it is backed up with, rather than an initial assumption of correctness. As should anyone else's.
In this light, why don't you reveal what you think the correct answer is? It would further this discussion enormously.
Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Tel us what the correct answer is.
With respect, I would phrase that as "tell us what you think is the correct answer" to avoid buying in to FF's assumption that he actually has the correct answer.
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Old 1st April 2016, 06:49 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Simple. The privacy reason can be resolved with anonymity. If privacy was the only issue, anonymity would solve it. A court battle would not have been necessary.

Privacy was not the only reason. I'm not going to convince any of you of this fact, I was just looking to see if there was a legitimate reason to block the release of the oral histories. Privacy was a valid concern, but the issues it presented could have been resolved. There was no reason to go to court over this.
To the bold. One would guess from this statement you are a lawyer knowing all of the legal concerns lawyers might have allowing public disclosure before the trials. Are you a lawyer? Perhaps the families of the victims requested those calls be kept private for a period of time. I'm guessing you weren't personally involved with 9/11 and because of that non involvement I gather you don't really know what transpired within the court system do you. with that in mind all you are doing is creating a narrative that easily explains the frighteningly chaotic events of recent history. An article for you. http://www.ibtimes.com/911-conspirac...-break-2091474

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Old 1st April 2016, 06:59 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
This ideology is extraordinarily dangerous. As much as you are going to hate to admit this, "Trutherland" and "Skepticsville" are both on the same planet. It does matter that secrecy shrouds all of 9/11. This secrecy prevents us from knowing the truth, and knowing the truth is the only way to prevent this from happening again. Hmmm. Maybe that explains why there is so much secrecy.
The simple truth is there are people and groups and political organizations on this planet that hate everything about the USA and much of western societies values and would do what they can to disrupt to the point of destroying it and them. As a matter of fact they seek to destroy any persons or states that don't agree with their particular political or religious values.

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Old 1st April 2016, 07:06 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You're kidding, right?

In my first post I clearly show that the release was initially blocked. They did not claim privacy as their reason.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/12/ny...oday.html?_r=0
So you assume some nefarious intent. That's telling. Deep down from where does this distrust have its origins?
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Old 1st April 2016, 08:24 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
So much dishonesty from FF - it's a truther trait afterall.
The crucial step between "just asking questions" and being a "truther" is when one starts lying to himself about the answers.
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Old 1st April 2016, 09:02 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
The crucial step between "just asking questions" and being a "truther" is when one starts lying to himself about the answers.
Or paying so little attention to them that you end up arguing with someone who is doing his damnedest to agree with you-
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I posted evidence. The oral histories were only released when an appeals court ordered their release. Mayor Bloomberg blocked the initial request. What more proof do you need?

You also ask how this supports the delusional fantasy of CD. This is funny, because I have not made any mention of this in this thread. Since you want an answer, 118 first responders claim there were explosions. I will believe their statements long before I believe anything written here by a skeptic.

You also didn't answer the question. Why keep this information secret?
Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
Absolutely right .
Phrases like , delusional fantasy , are often used . Perhaps they hope that deflection and attempted ridicule might cower antagonists .It is a time honoured and routine way of a certain type dealing with people who like to have reasonable questions answered sensibly .
It is a simple fact that all of these people reported what they considered to be explosions .
That overall fact represents one dot among a huge number that point to the official story being a fairy tale .One small dot possibly . But not to be belittled or hidden .
No amount of invective or rhetoric could in itself change my overall view .
I cannot answer the questions you raise because I have no relevant expertise . But I wanted you to know that I do recognise attempted bullying . Pathetic though it is .
I trust that overall you feel the same as I do .
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Why do you need expertise to answer the question I have posed? For this question, opinions are relevant. No expertise is required.
Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
It is attempted bullying that is derailing matters , imo .


However, this area of explosions being reported by otherwise sane and intelligent people including police and fire fighters , is significant, and is summarised :-
Mark Loizeaux, the head of Controlled Demolition,
Inc., has explained, "---- one needs the right explosive and the right pattern of laying the charges."
The 9/11 oral histories, therefore, create a difficult question for those
who defend the official story: How could terrorists have gotten
access to the Twin Towers for all the hours required to place all the
explosives needed to bring down buildings of that size? It is primarily
because they force this question that the testimony about explosions in the
towers is itself explosive.
Some people , it seems , will do almost anything to keep matters in this area quiet .
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
If you want to discuss bullying please start a new thread.

If you want to discuss CD please do so in an appropriate thread.
Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
[To beachnut]
You waffle quite happily on your private agenda but don't appear to understand what I said . Which was :-
A very large number of people reported the sound of explosions .
A simple fact .
You, on the other hand , introduce possible answers to later questions that have not even been talked about here or requested
You are so angry and illogical that for reasons only you known , you swerve randomly and take issue with NASA on their scientific discovery of Portals and Vortexes .
I think a quieter and more rational approach is needed to further encourage more people to clearly see that " Secrecy" was at the bottom of this matter .
But try and keep calm .
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
NASA? Portals? Vortexes? You skeptics will do whatever it takes to avoid answering a simple question.
That was some pretty funny stuff right there; Malbec a skeptic, uh huh
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Old 1st April 2016, 09:09 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
False Flag, your answer basically boils down to "I don't know".
Now, given that most of the information has now been released, can you yourself think of any reason why TPTB would want to hide it? If the reason was for secrecy not privacy, has anything come to light that you think is significant?
I myself cannot see how anything in those transcripts adds to the overall story of what happened on that tragic day. No smoking guns of government involvement, no sign of a cover-up.
Beyond a rather ghoulish desire to pore over the personal, often heartbreaking reactions of those caught up in the events, I see no good reason to need to know this.
But phrased as "secrecy! They're hiding something!"- as with creationists who yammer "goddidit!" as their counter to the TOE, an answer that boils down to no answer at all, just a substitute for one. It's turtles all the way down in either case, a bottomless resource for incredulity.
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Old 1st April 2016, 09:25 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
But phrased as "secrecy! They're hiding something!"- as with creationists who yammer "goddidit!" as their counter to the TOE, an answer that boils down to no answer at all, just a substitute for one. It's turtles all the way down in either case, a bottomless resource for incredulity.
Creationists : "its magic"

9/11 CTs: "its spooks"
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Old 1st April 2016, 05:10 PM   #223
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachnut
No explosives, loud noises, you don't do research, facts, and have zero evidence.
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Proof?
Please prove that every witness who heard an explosion was wrong. Please prove that every "explosion" was a body. Don't do it in this thread; start your own.
You'd think that Truthers would have much more to gain by interviewing witnesses. Witnesses who are on Facebook, and with whom an interview via SKYPE would be a snap. Witnesses like Richard "It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings" Banaciski, , or Dennis "Boom! Boom! Boom!" Tardio.

The possible benefits to Truthers are enormous, while the only costs would be being stripped of their delusions. But I've suggested to many a Truther that they do such interviews, and they all reacted like Count Dracula being offered a bowl of garlic soup, a holy water cocktail, and a crucifix. Why is that?
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Old 1st April 2016, 07:14 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
This thread speaks VOLUMES for just how absolutely insane skeptics are about everything. That's the conclusion an intelligent person is going to make when they read this thread. Deny it all you want, but this is all out there now. There are now several threads where this common trait is being exhibited. Actually, it's probably in all of them, but it's just now being pointed out.
Here's your primary mistake: You're late to the game.

There are volumes of threads on this forum that you clearly have not bothered to read, or have read and do not comprehend. You start threads with ancient and weather-worn arguments that have largely been resolved, or in the case of structural failures - you do not understand.

Your other problem is your screen name, it indicates that you have come here looking to troll the board, not seek answers. And you willingly live down to your name with your attitude.

You know nothing about the United States, and less about New York City. Worse, you don't care that you lack knowledge, and that has lead you to start this thread. In the years right after the attack there was a lot of issues to be resolved in New York surrounding the dead and the injured. Lawyers were out in force for the city, the unions, the WTC tenants, insurance companies for the WTC & neighboring buildings. Then you had investigations by NYC, NY State, and a host of Federal Agencies lead by the FBI, but there were a half-dozen others too.
I don't know what things are like in your country, but when you have a large army of lawyers and investigators crawling through your city and your files everybody covers their backsides. Like I said before, you clearly know nothing about the United States because while you're so hung up on the mythical powers of the US government you fail to understand just how unpleasant they can actually make your life while an investigation is underway - even when you are innocent.

So the fact that New York City was over cautious about releasing the oral histories is not a surprise to any Americans...even Truthers...
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Old 1st April 2016, 09:27 PM   #225
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It should be pointed out that the USA is a particularly litigious place. Privacy and individual rights were of paramount concern to the public. It is prudent for the FDNY to have been very guarded about public release of personal histories and the last words of 911 callers, until a court had cleared it.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:06 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
Evidence would suggest otherwise. Your post count is huge for the time frame and 99% of it is utter drivel
This is your opinion and nothing more.

Quote:
and demonstrates that you have zero educational qualifications to discuss the matters at hand and a complete unwillingness to learn from those that do possess them.
What are your educational qualifications? How do they relate to this thread?

Quote:
Heck, you couldn't even find the information regarding your OP even though it's been in the public domain for a decade. This is why we laugh at truthers, you're all perfect examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect. No self awareness at all.
Does your master give you skeptics a treat every time you mention Dunning-Kruger? I'm beginning to think there is some sort of reward every time a skeptic posts that term.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:08 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
I feel it demonstrates a degree of even-handedness in its refusal to grant access, no?
I agree.

This issue is that the release of the oral histories was blocked. Period.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:09 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
IOW: OP - (claims victory after completely ignoring the reasons given)
Where do I claim victory?
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:10 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Now, given that most of the information has now been released, can you yourself think of any reason why TPTB would want to hide it?
I am not going to speculate on a reason. You skeptics are drooling over this, just so you will have something to argue against. I'm not playing your game.

The release of the oral histories was blocked, and a court had to intervene and order their release. That is the issue.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:22 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
*ahem* [size="7"][color="Red"]THE ANONYMITY OF THE FIRST RESPONDERS WOULD NOT BE PROTECTED SIMPLY BY REDACTING THE NAMES IN THEIR TESTIMONY.
I had no idea this forum had a "temper tantrum" font. Thanks for letting me know about it.

For the sake of argument, I am going to copy and paste the entire oral history of a first responder. It is the very first one on the list. I have not chosen it because of the contents. It's just the first on the page, so I wanted to start there. It does not matter what oral history is chosen, the same technique can apply to all of them.

Here is a link to the oral history collection - http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...s_full_01.html

Here is a link to the very first oral history in the collection (alphabetically) -
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110071.PDF

Quote:

File No. 9110071
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT *redacted*
Interview Date: October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
2
*redacted*
MR. ECCLESTON: Today's date is October 12,
2001. The time is 747 hours. This is Christopher
Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department.
I'm conducting an interview with the following
individual.
Q. Please state your name, rank, title, assigned
command area of the Fire Department of the City of New
York regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
A. My name is *redacted*. I'm an EMT assigned
to *redacted*.
Q. Also present in the room is --
A. Christine Bastedenbeck of the New York City
Fire Department.
Q. Were you assigned to the World Trade Center
disaster on September 11, 2001?
A. Originally, basically we weren't assigned,
but we heard so much commotion over the radio, we
decided, you know, we asked Central, send us and we
went even as they dispatched us to the World Center.
Q. Who were you working with that day?
A. *redacted*.
Q. So they assigned you to the World Trade
Center?
A. Yes, I mean there was so much noise when the
5
*redacted*
down right on the sidewalk. Some were badly burned,
some were injured. Some were just in shock. Basically
we are there. We are treating some.
Q. Could you indicate where you parked your
vehicle.
A. Here is north, we are right here. I would
say we are right here. Exactly right here. We are
right here.
Q. Just make a number 1 there.
A. Okay. We were right here. West and Vesey
and the water is right here and you can't go past the
water.
Q. Okay, what vehicle were you in?
A. 350.
Q. 350?
A. 350.
So what happened at that point we get out.
We get out our stuff, we are just starting to take care
of the patients. We are tagging them red, yellow,
whatever color might be at that situation at that
time. We were there on the scene maybe -- I know the
second plane hit a little bit after nine, if I'm
correct. If I remember. We got our stuff out. We
started triaging the patients. We stayed right there.
6
*redacted*
I mean we didn't go any further because of the fact
that it was just a dangerous situation.
We stayed there, people were coming out and
we triaged them. We were there, I would say
approximately maybe an hour. I know it started -- I
think that building starting coming down around 10
o'clock or something like that. I don't exactly
remember what time, but it was about that time the
first tower came down.
Q. We have the time.
A. Yes, I don't remember exactly, but I know it
did come down, the first building, right. 9:55. About
an hour from when we were first there. With the grace
of god we had gotten all the people out of there. We
had gotten all the patients out of there. They were
transported and everything.
Next thing you know, you hear another -- they
had said there were jets out there that day. They were
out there. I started to hear another jet, right, it
sounded like a flush of a jet. What it was was
actually the building coming down. I didn't actually
see the building coming down but you heard it. Why I
didn't see it, I don't know. We were just so busy
concentrating on what we are doing. You just heard
7
*redacted*
this thrushing, thrushing noise like a rocket. I
thought the building was under attack again.
You just start seeing this smoke coming
down. We just took off. We went north. We actually
-- sorry, we went west. We went towards the river.
All right. Then we just went towards the river and
went up north a little bit behind the building. That
was after the first one went down.
Q. Were you still with your partner at that
time?
A. No. At that time, forget it, we were gone.
We separated. It was just one of those things. We
separated. I was looking for him. He was looking for
me. I asked all around if -- someone told me he saw
him. He was okay. I heard at one point that he went
to the hospital with another co-worker of mine, but
that wasn't true.
We were there, I would say for maybe another
20 minutes, half an hour or so, and then the second
building came down, so we had to run even more
further. We ran up north further, and then what
happened we ran into the school. Actually the school
was coming out, Stuyvesant High School, the kids
started coming out. They didn't have a clue what was
8
*redacted*
going on.
So we have like 3, 4,000 kids coming out of
the school, not realizing the magnitude of what's going
on. So we are starting to walk. Now it's coming down
and we are starting to walk, but the school is funny,
the school is like a break wall for the smoke that is
coming from the building, so when the kids got past one
end of the school they started panicking. So we all
started getting nervous, because the only place else to
go was the Hudson River. I'm a good swimmer, but the
Hudson River?
So I started telling the kids, everybody,
just calm down, everybody keep on walking. Keep on
walking, keep on walking. We finally got out to West
Street and went just go all the way up till we stayed
at the -- what's the place up there.
Q. Chelsea Pier?
A. Yes, Chelsea Piers. After that, then there
was a gas leak. There was another explosion, the gas
went. At that point it was just total helplessness.
We felt terrible. We felt bad.
Q. Where your vehicle was left --
A. The vehicle was left right there. It was
left right there at West and Vesey Street. Just left
9
*redacted*
it there, left everything. Just left everything. They
tell you if running, don't look back. I was running
looking back, making sure that cloud was coming,
because it was coming. It was a horrific cloud.
It was like this monster coming out of the
sky that was going to swallow you up. Then I noticed
people jumping off the building. I caught this one guy
over there. My eye caught him. It was just one of
those things. My eye caught him. I was watching.
That's pretty much it.
Q. Once you got to the Chelsea Piers, and they
had you staged there --
A. Well, I tell you, everybody -- it was so
-- at that point, at that point, I think right after
the first building collapsed, people were just walking
around. They didn't know what to do. Everybody was
just walking around. I was walking around like I lost
my little puppy. I was definitely just total shaken.
Forget it.
It got more organized at one point. At one
point it started to get organized. I think after the
second building went down, it finally started to get
organized. Started getting all the ambulances lined up
on West Street. It just really started to get
10
*redacted*
organized, but like I said, there wasn't really much
for us to do. You had 400 ambulances there, just
idling their engines. Not really doing anything. It
was a shame.
If you ask me, can we ever prepare ourselves
for something like this, not this magnitude. Not this
magnitude, no. This was something else way beyond our
comprehension and something that we, you know, can
never handle again. It's impossible. It really is.
As much training as we get, MCIs and things like that
every year, I never want to see this again. I really
don't.
I'm staged by the Empire State Building, so
every time I stage by the Empire State Building, I'm
like, I'm looking up all the time now. I mean I'm just
like, oh. My partner is saying what are you looking
at? Terrible terrible thing, really was.
Q. Did you eventually get to finding your
partner?
A. Thank god, yes. We hugged each other. We
gave a big hug, yes, we found each other.
Q. How long were you separated?
A. Almost until -- Jesus, almost until -- it had
to be afternoon, one o'clock, 1:30, 2:00. I finally
11
*redacted*
found him down around the command center. What
happened was that I had gotten pulled off. I had a
Chief come pick me up and drive me to the hospital,
because our Captain was hurt, so he saw me walking up
the street and he says do you have a unit? I said no,
he says hop in with me and he took me up to the
hospital.
Q. Who was your Captain?
A. Captain Stone.
Q. Okay. He had gotten hurt on the scene?
A. Apparently. Now that I've opened my mouth,
I'm sorry, but he actually escaped. He was in the
building. He almost -- from what I know, he almost --
escaped with his life just about. He really did. You
didn't hear this from me, please. I'm afraid I'm
opening a can of worms.
Q. No, you are not, no.
A. He almost escaped with his life. He really
did. He just missed it. The building almost fell on
him.
Q. Thank goodness he got out.
A. Yes, he got out. So I was in the command car
with him. He drove me up to Bellevue and then I was
told to take the command car and I went back downtown
12
*redacted*
to the command center. That was pretty much it.
Q. Is there anything else you would like to add
to this regarding the events from the time the plane
hit until about 12 noon?
A. It was just mass chaos. That's all I could
say. It was just mass chaos. I think everybody was
just saying, you know, there really isn't much we can
do when the buildings went down and that we just got to
look out for ourselves and take care of ourselves.
That's basically what it was. We were just taking care
of ourselves. We had no choice.
If we get hurt, who are we going to help. It
was just basically be safe, keep yourself, keep your
distance, keep your ears open, keep your radios open to
see what was going on. That's pretty much the whole
thing in a nutshell.
MR. ECCLESTON: Thank you very much for
conducting this interview with me. This interview
is concluded at 758 hours. The counter on the
cassette recorder is 194.
OK. So, how much longer do you want to argue simply for the sake or arguing? Personal information could have easily been redacted. I just did it, and could do it to every single oral history without affecting relevant information. Considering the circumstances, the needs of Americans to know what happened far outweighs the needs of individuals. It's not even close.

Secrecy has no place in a democracy. If you want secrecy in your government, please consider moving to North Korea.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 1st April 2016 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:23 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Tel us what the correct answer is.
I already did. Your refusal to read all of my posts and comprehend them is not a sufficient reason to waste my time reposting things.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:27 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
To the bold. One would guess from this statement you are a lawyer knowing all of the legal concerns lawyers might have allowing public disclosure before the trials. Are you a lawyer? Perhaps the families of the victims requested those calls be kept private for a period of time. I'm guessing you weren't personally involved with 9/11 and because of that non involvement I gather you don't really know what transpired within the court system do you. with that in mind all you are doing is creating a narrative that easily explains the frighteningly chaotic events of recent history. An article for you. http://www.ibtimes.com/911-conspirac...-break-2091474
This is funny. Are you a lawyer? Even if you were, it's not relevant to this thread.

9/11 was the worst attack on America in the 21st century. I don't give a damn about the privacy of the families, when that excuse can be misused to withhold information that the survivors might need to understand what happened. The security of 310 million Americans far outweighs the needs of the families. Period.

Again, privacy could have been addressed through anonymity. Stop using it as an excuse to support secrecy. If you want to live in a society where secrecy is OK, move to Russia or North Korea. As an American, I will not accept your BS arguments over this issue.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:32 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
So you assume some nefarious intent. That's telling. Deep down from where does this distrust have its origins?
If you blindly trust your government, you are too far gone to help.

The oral histories should never have been blocked. There should have been an immediate public discussion about how to handle the privacy issue(s). Where privacy was a major, legitimate concern, personal information could have been redacted before releasing the information to the general public. Under no circumstances whatsoever should any information have been withheld from any government agency or investigative body. The information should have been released to these agencies as soon as it was created, so that a thorough, proper investigation could have happened.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:33 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
The crucial step between "just asking questions" and being a "truther" is when one starts lying to himself about the answers.
Apply this to yourself before you accuse other people of doing this.

Spend some time learning about cognitive dissonance before you accuse others of lying to themselves.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:34 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
But phrased as "secrecy! They're hiding something!"- as with creationists who yammer "goddidit!" as their counter to the TOE, an answer that boils down to no answer at all, just a substitute for one. It's turtles all the way down in either case, a bottomless resource for incredulity.
If you block the release of something you are suppressing the information it contains. That is secrecy.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:39 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Lawyers were out in force for the city, the unions, the WTC tenants, insurance companies for the WTC & neighboring buildings. Then you had investigations by NYC, NY State, and a host of Federal Agencies lead by the FBI, but there were a half-dozen others too.
If you have nothing to hide, then you have no reason to block the release of anything.

What you are really saying is that the people responsible for this knew there was damning information in the oral histories, so they did everything they could to block the release as long as possible so they could settle the lawsuits and pay the claims before the information became available.

I'm not saying this, you are.

And don't ever question the fact that I am an American. Don't even go there.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:40 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
It should be pointed out that the USA is a particularly litigious place. Privacy and individual rights were of paramount concern to the public. It is prudent for the FDNY to have been very guarded about public release of personal histories and the last words of 911 callers, until a court had cleared it.
If this actually was a surprise attack, then what would our leaders have to hide?

Seriously, all you are doing is saying that the government was trying to cover its ass as long as it could.
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Old 1st April 2016, 10:46 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Seriously, all you are doing is saying that the government was trying to cover its ass as long as it could.
He's not saying that. JDH is Canadian and I'm (English born) Aussie. And we are both obviously more familiar with the founding principles of the US Constitution than you seem to be from the nonsense you post.

Start with the Preamble "We the people....."

...come back when you can tell us what is wrong with your post.
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Old 1st April 2016, 11:05 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
He's not saying that. JDH is Canadian and I'm (English born) Aussie. And we are both obviously more familiar with the founding principles of the US Constitution than you seem to be from the nonsense you post.

Start with the Preamble "We the people....."

...come back when you can tell us what is wrong with your post.
Your post is extreme word salad.
You cite the preamble, and then provide a meaningless challenge with no specific goals.
Is this the best you can do?
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Old 1st April 2016, 11:25 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
If this actually was a surprise attack, then what would our leaders have to hide?.......
Begging the question: you are assuming the answer within the question. Once you have even begun to demonstrate that "your leaders" were hiding anything, then we'll talk. In the meantime, paranoia rules.
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