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Old 1st April 2016, 11:26 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I.........the people responsible for this knew there was damning information in the oral histories.........
Their testimony has been public for 11 years. There is no damning information, so this is yet another lie.
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Old 1st April 2016, 11:28 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Begging the question: you are assuming the answer within the question. Once you have even begun to demonstrate that "your leaders" were hiding anything, then we'll talk. In the meantime, paranoia rules.
This is not begging the question.

If you are in an auto accident you cooperate with the investigators, right? If you didn't know it was going to happen, why wouldn't you? Now, let's say you planned the accident. Would you be just as cooperative? No. No, you would not.

It's the same thing.

Secrecy obscures the truth. Withholding information is secrecy. It's that simple.
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Old 1st April 2016, 11:29 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Their testimony has been public for 11 years. There is no damning information, so this is yet another lie.
This is your opinion. It is also irrelevant.

The release of the information was initially blocked. That is the issue.
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Old 1st April 2016, 11:43 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
This is your opinion. It is also irrelevant.

The release of the information was initially blocked. That is the issue.
It was your claim that the information was damning:

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
........the people responsible for this knew there was damning information in the oral histories.......
You have no doubt checked it line by line, and you haven't found anything. Don't try to turn this into my opinion.............it is your claim that the information was damning, yet you haven't backed that claim up. At all.
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Last edited by MikeG; 1st April 2016 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 1st April 2016, 11:51 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
This is not begging the question.

If you are in an auto accident you cooperate with the investigators, right? If you didn't know it was going to happen, why wouldn't you? Now, let's say you planned the accident. Would you be just as cooperative? No. No, you would not.

It's the same thing.

Secrecy obscures the truth. Withholding information is secrecy. It's that simple.
A ridiculous analogy. The people who gave their testimonies were co-operating.
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Old 1st April 2016, 11:58 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
This issue is that the release of the oral histories was blocked. Period.

It's not an issue. Colon.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:01 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It was your claim that the information was damning:



You have no doubt checked it line by line, and you haven't found anything. Don't try to turn this into my opinion.............it is your claim that the information was damning, yet you haven't backed that claim up. At all.
Your stupid trick won't work. Don't attribute that statement to me. I was summarizing the statement of someone else.

You have nothing left, do you? Dirty tricks is all you have. Lame, pathetic, dirty tricks is all you skeptics have.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 2nd April 2016 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:07 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It was your claim that the information was damning:
This is absolutely wrong. Read what was written, and who it was in response to.

If you want any further response, correct your mistake.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:08 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
It's not an issue. Colon.
Sure it's not, if you want to be ruled by a dictatorship or other oppressive regime.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 2nd April 2016 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:17 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Sure it's not, if you want to live in under a dictatorship.

You can live in under a dictatorship?

It can't be that repressive then
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:19 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
You can live in under a dictatorship?

It can't be that repressive then
I have edited my post. If the best you can do is point out typos or grammatical errors, I must be doing pretty well.

Oppressive and repressive do have similar but different meanings. Both words are acceptable.

The semantics game is tiring and unnecessary. Not posting at all is your better choice.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 2nd April 2016 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:21 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I have edited my post. If the best you can do is point out typos or grammatical errors, I must be doing pretty well.

Don't kid yourself, you're doing appallingly badly
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:22 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
Don't kid yourself, you're doing appallingly badly
You are entitled to your opinion. It is nothing more than that. Stop kidding yourself.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:25 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You are entitled to your opinion. It is nothing more than that. Stop kidding yourself.

From the mind that brought you:

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
What I think does not matter.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:27 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
From the mind that brought you:
You will take anything out of context just to make yourself look good. Pathetic. It's just a trick, and anyone can see that. You make yourself look even more foolish than you actually are by continuing your meaningless attacks.

It's a shame you can't find anything substantive to post that relates to the topic of this thread.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:29 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You will take anything out of context just to make yourself look good. Pathetic. It's just a trick, and anyone can see that. You make yourself look even more foolish than you actually are by continuing your meaningless attacks.

Translation:

I'm made of rubber,
you're made of glue,
it bounces off me,
and sticks to you.

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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:33 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
Translation:

I'm made of rubber,
you're made of glue,
it bounces off me,
and sticks to you.


Finally! You finally post something that accurately reflects your true cognitive and argumentative abilities.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:38 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Finally! You finally post something that accurately reflects your true cognitive and argumentative abilities.

...and there's the Whoooosh
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:39 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
...and there's the Whoooosh
Is your post relevant to the topic of this thread?

In a previous post in another thread I briefly make the case that a forum such as this should not have moderation. If we want to insult, belittle, berate, or otherwise attack each other I think we should be allowed to do so. We can either respond to the attack, ignore it, or just leave the forum. I don't think anyone should ever need to step in and edit or remove posts. We are all adults. I realize that some people might want to argue with this, but it's true, we are all adults.

That being said, I think there is a point where we should not tempt fate and bring moderator action into the thread. I think we have reached this point. I don't want to have my posts edited or removed, so I don't really have a choice other than to stop responding to posts that are just bait posts to solicit more negativity. I have done it way too many times, and I think there is enough of that in this thread.

You can continue to say whatever you want, but I choose to stop. I have tempted fate enough. Go ahead and continue the insults if you want. I find some of them amusing, but please understand that I won't respond.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 2nd April 2016 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:42 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Is your post relevant to the topic of this thread?


"Is this a rhetorical question?"
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:46 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
"Is this a rhetorical question?"
Yes. It poses an argument. That argument is, "Is your post relevant to this thread?"
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:50 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You can continue to say whatever you want, but I choose to stop.

Apparently not.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 12:52 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
Apparently not.
I choose to stop replying to your insults. I will still reply to posts that are at least slightly meaningful.

You obviously misunderstood a simple statement I made. It seems like it should have been easy to understand. Do you think your inability to understand a simple post might affect your ability to understand more complex concepts?
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Old 2nd April 2016, 01:12 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I choose to stop replying to your insults. I will still reply to posts that are at least slightly meaningful.

You obviously misunderstood a simple statement I made. It seems like it should have been easy to understand. Do you think your inability to understand a simple post might affect your ability to understand more complex concepts?


I am touched by your concern but, as always, we must defer to a higher truth:

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
What I think does not matter.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 01:27 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I agree.

This issue is that the release of the oral histories was blocked. Period.
And in the 11 years that they have been in the public domain, what sensational revelations of sooper sekrit information have been found in them?
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Old 2nd April 2016, 01:31 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
And in the 11 years that they have been in the public domain, what sensational revelations of sooper sekrit information have been found in them?
I have heard of "truther physics", but now we get to add "skeptic spelling" to the list of whatever.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 01:32 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
I am touched by your concern but, as always, we must defer to a higher truth:
So you admit I have said at least one thing that is true. Well, I guess it's a start.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 01:39 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
So you admit I have said at least one thing that is true. Well, I guess it's a start.

"Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day."
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:08 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
False Flag, your answer basically boils down to "I don't know".
Now, given that most of the information has now been released, can you yourself think of any reason why TPTB would want to hide it? If the reason was for secrecy not privacy, has anything come to light that you think is significant?
I myself cannot see how anything in those transcripts adds to the overall story of what happened on that tragic day. No smoking guns of government involvement, no sign of a cover-up.
Beyond a rather ghoulish desire to pore over the personal, often heartbreaking reactions of those caught up in the events, I see no good reason to need to know this.
False Flag: I really would appreciate an answer to this.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:18 AM   #270
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:19 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
False Flag: I really would appreciate an answer to this.
OK. I appreciate you asking for an answer. I'm going to give a meatball to the skeptics with nothing better to do and say this again. What I think does not matter. To be more clear, why the information was blocked can never really be answered. I can speculate, but I'm not going to.

As I have said before, "The release of the information was initially blocked. That is the issue."

It really is the issue. It doesn't matter what was eventually released, it was that it was blocked to begin with. It should never have been blocked.

What you want is for me to speculate so that you can take my speculation and use it for fuel for a debate. I respectfully decline your invitation.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:22 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Beyond a rather ghoulish desire to pore over the personal, often heartbreaking reactions of those caught up in the events, I see no good reason to need to know this.
I will comment on this.

3000 Americans died on 9/11. 9/11 was used as a pretext to pass the Patriot Act. It was used as a reason to go to war with two countries. Over a million people have died in those wars.

Those are reasons there should be no secrecy whatsoever. Everything should be known. Everything.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:24 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I have heard of "truther physics", but now we get to add "skeptic spelling" to the list of whatever.
Not an answer. In the past 11 years, what revelations have you discovered in the transcripts? Or anyone, for that matter?
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:25 AM   #274
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These testimonies weren't part of the FBI investigation anyway, they were internal Fire Department documents.
Witnesses were interviewed by and gave their testimony to the FBI.
How does access to these testimonies by a newspaper over 4 years after the event effect the FBI investigation?
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:28 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Not an answer. In the past 11 years, what revelations have you discovered in the transcripts? Or anyone, for that matter?
You are trying to get someone to take your bait so you can drag them down into a pointless debate with you. I won't take the bait, although someone else might.

The initial question posed in this thread has been answered. If you want to add another answer, then I'm sure we would all be willing to listen.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:29 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
Privacy from obnoxious, bullying Truthers would be a big reason for me. Cap't Bob Balsamo of the vanity site "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" fame would begin to spam people in both the cyber world and real life with multiple emails, IP address collections, finding out where you lived, your job, just about everything about you if you disagreed at all with any of his idiotic claims. He did it to me and a number of others here from this board, with people whom I used as references, professionals in the aviation business, everything/everybody.

9/11 Truth is not a serious fact of life in the real world and having half-baked unhinged anger-management-problem types hassle and bully you if you choose to engage is simply not worth it.
Well stated! The lengths some of these people will go to in order to find out one's personal details are scary. Look at the treatment of the families of the victims and the staff of Sandy Hook for example. It is appalling, and legal redress is difficult.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:30 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I just found out the the oral histories of 503 9/11 first responders were compiled by the New York Fire Department. I also found out that they were released to the public in 2005, after an appeals court ordered their release. The original request to have the records released was made by the New York Times, but that request was blocked by Mayor Bloomberg.

Here is my question. Why would anyone want to keep these records private?


The oral histories - http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...s_full_01.html

The article discussing the release, and why it took so long.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/12/ny...oday.html?_r=0

The official story is so simple: Planes crash into big buildings. Fire. Collapse. Duh. Another building nearby collapses. Fire. Duh.

If it's so simple, why is there so much secrecy everywhere you look, if you actually choose to look?

One more thing, the article says that most of the records were released. Why hasn't everything been released?
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
OK. I appreciate you asking for an answer. I'm going to give a meatball to the skeptics with nothing better to do and say this again. What I think does not matter. To be more clear, why the information was blocked can never really be answered. I can speculate, but I'm not going to.

As I have said before, "The release of the information was initially blocked. That is the issue."

It really is the issue. It doesn't matter what was eventually released, it was that it was blocked to begin with. It should never have been blocked.

What you want is for me to speculate so that you can take my speculation and use it for fuel for a debate. I respectfully decline your invitation.
You appear to have forgotten your original question. You started this thread inviting speculation on why the release was blocked, but now you are refusing to do any speculating yourself.
Why ask in the first place then?
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:33 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You are trying to get someone to take your bait so you can drag them down into a pointless debate with you. I won't take the bait, although someone else might.

The initial question posed in this thread has been answered. If you want to add another answer, then I'm sure we would all be willing to listen.
Privacy.

Your implication is that there were nefarious reasons to not release the transcripts because they contained some damning evidence. You have had 11 years to come up with said evidence. You have not. Why is that?
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:33 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I will comment on this.

3000 Americans died on 9/11. 9/11 was used as a pretext to pass the Patriot Act. It was used as a reason to go to war with two countries. Over a million people have died in those wars.

Those are reasons there should be no secrecy whatsoever. Everything should be known. Everything.
If that's your point, then knowing the personal details of calls to the emergency services adds nothing of relevance to the circumstances behind the passing of the Patriot Act.
I do believe that the Bush administration exploited the attack, for this and as a pretext for invading Iraq. If you agree, then you should be pressing for more information about this, not about 9/11 itself, which although linked, is a separate issue.
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Old 2nd April 2016, 02:45 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
You appear to have forgotten your original question. You started this thread inviting speculation on why the release was blocked, but now you are refusing to do any speculating yourself.
Why ask in the first place then?
OK. This is a great point. I can see where there would be confusion, and you are right. I am asking other members to speculate why the release would be blocked. The difference is that I have not asked for any proof as to why their reasons are valid or true. I have never said that. I have simply asked for people to provide reasons. I then commented that there was quite a bit of secrecy considering the official story is supposed to be so simple. I also then pointed out that all of the records have not been released, but then did not pursue that issue any further.

One of the reasons given was privacy. I never asked for proof that privacy was a reason, I simply addressed the answer by stating it was a valid concern, and it could be addressed.

What is being asked of me now is to speculate, as I have asked you. On the surface, it sounds fair, but I know it's a trick.

The reasons behind each request are entirely different. My reason for asking was to find out if there was a legitimate reason to block the release. In my opinion, there was not. The second reason was to point out that, regardless of the reason, the release was blocked. That is a form of secrecy.

Now, what you are doing is asking me to give more reasons other than privacy. Then, once I give my reason, you will ask for proof. Proof is something I can not give, for that is what speculation is. I won't allow myself to get dragged into another meaningless debate. The issues of what was in the oral histories is not relevant to the purpose of this thread. It isn't. I keep saying this, but you refuse to accept this because you want to debate. I will not do this.

One last time, the release was blocked. The only reason given was privacy (albeit in multiple flavors). Privacy is a concern, not a reason. Anonymity would address the concern. The fact that the release was blocked is the issue. Blocking the release is withholding information. Withholding information is a form of secrecy. There is secrecy where there should be none. That is the issue.
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