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2nd April 2016, 02:48 AM | #281 |
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I never said they contained damning evidence. If you misquote me, like another poster did, you will not receive another reply from me.
My statement was a summary of another poster. It was not my statement, it was a summary of another poster. The posts in this thread clearly show this. Do not take my statement out of context. I have already explained the error which has not been corrected. If you continue to base your arguments on this error, you are proving to everyone that you refuse to get your facts straight. |
2nd April 2016, 02:50 AM | #282 |
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2nd April 2016, 02:57 AM | #283 |
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Is this even an issue? It's somewhat reminiscent of the 'Blue Flame' controversy.
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2nd April 2016, 03:00 AM | #284 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:01 AM | #285 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:18 AM | #286 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:20 AM | #287 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:25 AM | #288 |
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I don't think the transcript contents are the important point.
FF seems to be implying that the reluctance to make the transcripts public suggests other, unspecified evidence is still being withheld. |
2nd April 2016, 03:34 AM | #289 |
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Yes. The contents are irrelevant. Thank you for understanding my point.
In regards to your second sentence, "No." In my first post I reference a statement in the article I linked that some material has not been released. I did not bring up the subject again. I am not claiming oral histories are still being withheld. This might be true, but it is not part of the issue I am trying to discuss. |
2nd April 2016, 03:38 AM | #290 |
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I don't understand your issue tbh. The interviews were released 10 years ago, and nothing suspicious was found in them.
You also claim that they could have done them anonymous. Yeh, like that will work with truthers. They will claim they were fake the minute they would be released. And who knows why they decided to keep them from the public in the first place. In the end it does not matter, because they were released. |
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2nd April 2016, 03:38 AM | #291 |
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I never specified further oral histories. I posit further 'unspecified' evidence.
If that isn't your point then I don't see why this is important at all. Do you think that other unspecified evidence may have been kept secret and is still secret? Where are you going with this? |
2nd April 2016, 03:46 AM | #292 |
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Here is the courtcase regarding the oral histories.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I05_0034.htm I see this was already posted by Oystein. |
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2nd April 2016, 03:48 AM | #293 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:50 AM | #294 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:51 AM | #295 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:52 AM | #296 |
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2nd April 2016, 03:56 AM | #297 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:00 AM | #298 |
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Here is something from the court ruling.
"This logic leads to the conclusion that all of the oral histories are discloseable under FOIL. We add one qualification, however, because we are given pause by the Fire Department's insistence that "the oral histories contain numerous statements which are exceedingly personal in nature, describing the interviewees' intimate emotions such as fears, concern for themselves and loved ones, and horror at what they saw and heard." If indeed some firefighters made such statements in what they were led to believe was a private setting, it may be unfair to invade their privacy based solely on the inadequacy of the evidence the Department has submitted. We therefore direct that the Department be given an opportunity, on remand, to call to Supreme Court's attention specific portions of the oral histories which, in the Fire Department's view, would cause serious pain or embarrassment to interviewees if they were disclosed. Supreme Court should then consider, following an in camera inspection if necessary, whether those portions of the oral histories are subject to the privacy exception, taking into account any further evidence that may be submitted on the question of whether the interviewees thought the interviews were private." So it was the fire department. But I guess they were in on it to for some reason. |
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2nd April 2016, 04:01 AM | #299 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:02 AM | #300 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:03 AM | #301 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:03 AM | #302 |
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Apart from pointing out that the recordings were initially not released I don't see any point to the thread if it wasn't to make some larger rhetorical point.
We knew that the recordings weren't released. We know that it was a news organisation that wanted access. We know they were released. We know it wasn't any of the 'Truth Campaigners' that got the release. We know they have been available for over 10 years. We know they contain accounts that accord with the public record of events. Why did you start a thread to tell us something that is common knowledge? |
2nd April 2016, 04:07 AM | #303 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:09 AM | #304 |
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You keep posting that the recordings were needed for a thorough investigation, implying somehow that without them any investigation in to 9/11 is somehow incomplete or invalid.
These recordings weren't part of any official investigation, the FBI conducted their own interviews that were part of the official investigation. These recordings were made by the Fire department for their own records. As far as a I can see their release was wanted by media organisations so they could be published for the titillation of their viewers and readers. |
2nd April 2016, 04:10 AM | #305 |
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You bring up good points, but what you fail to realize is that while you know all of the above, not everyone else does. I had no idea that the release was blocked until about ten minutes before I started this thread. I learned of the issue, did some research to see if it was actually true, and then started this post to try to understand why such important information could be withheld from the public.
I think many of the posters here think that everyone has been involved in this discussion since day one. This is absolutely not true. Every single day people learn something about 9/11 that makes them question what they have been told. This happens every day. Every day there are new truth-seekers. I know it must be hard to accept this, but it's true. The people that choose to seek the truth will often learn of this forum through Google. There is no much 9/11-related info, this forum shows up constantly. I did a quick search of "503" and "oral histories" in this forum and did not find anything. That is why I started this thread. I had a question, and I wanted other people's opinions. That is what I got. Mission accomplished. |
2nd April 2016, 04:11 AM | #306 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:14 AM | #307 |
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Are the oral histories evidence? Yes.
If you are doing an investigation, shouldn't you have access to all of the evidence that exists? Yes. If you don't have access to all of the available evidence, is the investigation thorough or complete? No. Is the FBI the only agency that deserves access to the information? No. Everyone with an interest in 9/11 should have had immediate access to the evidence (oral histories). Every American has an interest in what happened on 9/11, even if they are "interested" or not. Since every American has an interest in the evidence, it should not have been withheld. I can't make this any more clear that that. You keep trying to take my argument to other levels. This is unnecessary. |
2nd April 2016, 04:15 AM | #308 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:45 AM | #309 |
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Now there's your standard CT technique- become aware for the first time of an issue resolved, with no smoking guns found, over ten years ago (an issue and resolution you'd think any half-way competent "researcher" would have known about already), do a whole ten minutes worth of "research" into it, find it's true- then decide, instead of doing a little more research into why it may not even be an issue anymore, to make one of it by beginning yet another breathless "OMG! OMG!" JAQ-off Internet session.
You want to know why folks don't take Truthers seriously, FF? You just demonstrated why- mission accomplished. |
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2nd April 2016, 04:52 AM | #310 |
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I'm one of those folks that did read all of your posts. When I responded at that specific post it was not clear to me what you thought the correct answer was, you just made a veiled implication; it's still not clear. The only thing that's clear is you think there's some governmental occult machiavellian drama going on with 9/11 and not terrorists hijacking airliners and using them as weapons. Perhaps that is the answer you think is correct.?
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2nd April 2016, 04:52 AM | #311 |
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Firstly, I would say that what is in the oral histories is information, not evidence. If it is evidence, it is evidence only that people asked for help, and were shocked, bewildered and frightened by what was happening.
Secondly, in case you misunderstood my point, it is not evidence about the motives and decisions that led to the Patriot Act. |
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2nd April 2016, 04:53 AM | #312 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:54 AM | #313 |
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Oral evidence is not that important in a courtcase, because everyone has different views of what happened that day. Some thought that they were in one building, while in fact they were in the other building. Some thought that the second building collapsed right after the first. Some didn't even know that both buildings had collapsed completely till the next day, or later the day of the attacks. Some thought the buildings only collapsed partially. So not much evidence can be used from oral interviews.
"Everyone with an interest in 9/11 should have had immediate access to the evidence (oral histories). Every American has an interest in what happened on 9/11, even if they are "interested" or not. Since every American has an interest in the evidence, it should not have been withheld." Yeh, see how that worked out in the Boston bombings, where people were falsely accused by internet sleuths. Let the investigation be carried out by the experts. |
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2nd April 2016, 04:54 AM | #314 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:55 AM | #315 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:56 AM | #316 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:57 AM | #317 |
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2nd April 2016, 04:58 AM | #318 |
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2nd April 2016, 05:00 AM | #319 |
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2nd April 2016, 05:01 AM | #320 |
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"Everyone with an interest in 9/11 should have had immediate access to the evidence (oral histories). Every American has an interest in what happened on 9/11, even if they are "interested" or not. Since every American has an interest in the evidence, it should not have been withheld."
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