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View Poll Results: What Percentage of AIA will support the WTC7 Resolution?
0-4% 50 87.72%
5-9% 5 8.77%
10-14% 1 1.75%
15-19% 0 0%
20-24% 0 0%
25-29% 0 0%
30-34% 0 0%
35-39% 0 0%
40-44% 0 0%
45-49% 0 0%
50-54% 1 1.75%
55-59% 0 0%
60-64% 0 0%
65-69% 0 0%
70-74% 0 0%
75-79% 0 0%
80-84% 0 0%
85-89% 0 0%
90-94% 0 0%
95-100% 0 0%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th April 2016, 11:48 AM   #1
DaveThomasNMSR
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AIA 2016 Meeting Vote - How Will It Turn Out?

This years' AIA convention will be held in Philadelphia on May 19 through May 21.

What do you think the percentage in support of the AE911 Truth resolution will be this time?

In 2015, AE911Truth's Resolution 15-6, which called upon the AIA to support a new WTC 7 investigation, was voted down 3,892 to 160, garnering just 4% of the delegates’ votes. Link.

Let the voting begin.
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Old 8th April 2016, 11:57 AM   #2
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"Truthers" have done nothing over the last year that would warrant them getting more support. I think some of the votes they got last year were mistakes.

Every year they claim a large number of signers at the AIA events. Almost none actually materialize.
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Old 8th April 2016, 12:03 PM   #3
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Much the same result. Margin of error +/- 3 percentage points.
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Old 8th April 2016, 12:07 PM   #4
cantonear1968
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
"Truthers" have done nothing over the last year that would warrant them getting more support. I think some of the votes they got last year were mistakes.

Every year they claim a large number of signers at the AIA events. Almost none actually materialize.
True but this has very little to do with science and everything to do with marketing. I don't think they will come anywhere near a passing resolution but I wouldn't be surpised if they picked up a few more votes. I doubt if anyone but the faithful voted for them last year so they can only go up!
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Old 8th April 2016, 12:16 PM   #5
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Four to Six percent is a good sign that most AIA members are not insane, not paranoid on 9/11, not irrational on 9/11, not fooled by the fraud of Gage's CD claim. CD claims on opinion and paranoia.

How many voted out of ignorance for a resolution based on ignorance. Hopefully, the more Gage persists, the more people will see AE911T is a fraud, and Gage's travel club for one; his only income. Is AE911T a tax fraud scam, because there are a few donors who gave 100,000 or so; the scam, total refund of donation minus 10 percent, and the donor ends up with 90,000 dollars, with no giant tax bite... 10 percent tax, vs paying the IRS tax rate... Who is dumb enough to donate over 100,000 dollars to the delusional CD claims. Where is the IRS when you need them...

The four percent; sad they failed to see the BS in the last resolution.
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Old 8th April 2016, 12:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Four to Six percent is a good sign that most AIA members are not insane, not paranoid on 9/11, not irrational on 9/11, not fooled by the fraud of Gage's CD claim. CD claims on opinion and paranoia.

How many voted out of ignorance for a resolution based on ignorance. Hopefully, the more Gage persists, the more people will see AE911T is a fraud, and Gage's travel club for one; his only income. Is AE911T a tax fraud scam, because there are a few donors who gave 100,000 or so; the scam, total refund of donation minus 10 percent, and the donor ends up with 90,000 dollars, with no giant tax bite... 10 percent tax, vs paying the IRS tax rate... Who is dumb enough to donate over 100,000 dollars to the delusional CD claims. Where is the IRS when you need them...

The four percent; sad they failed to see the BS in the last resolution.
I know this isn't new information, but you've keyed on the whole point of this vote: Gage has no interest in a new investigation or even 9/11. It's all about the dollars, baby!
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Old 9th April 2016, 08:04 AM   #7
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Beyond Misinformation

I just noticed that the official A911Truth banner image for their AIA resolution is subtitled "Beyond Misinformation."

How utterly and ironically appropriate!

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Old 9th April 2016, 09:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DaveThomasNMSR View Post
I just noticed that the official A911Truth banner image for their AIA resolution is subtitled "Beyond Misinformation."

How utterly and ironically appropriate!

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/d03bf3...be3057b248.jpg
Does AIA know Gage is using their logo on his propaganda?
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Old 9th April 2016, 10:59 AM   #9
Ape of Good Hope
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ENORMOUS RED AIA logo bang in the middle of the banner image.


Tiny little AE911Truth down in the bottom right hand corner in ghostly pale blue.



Now why might that be?
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Old 9th April 2016, 12:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Does AIA know Gage is using their logo on his propaganda?
Yes they do. I doubt they will bother doing anything about it though. AE truth has fallen so far below the radar I doubt they care.
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Old 9th April 2016, 01:33 PM   #11
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Does anyone want to change their vote?
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Old 9th April 2016, 01:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Does anyone want to change their vote?
No. Why even ask?
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Old 9th April 2016, 01:53 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
http://i64.tinypic.com/2na89ra.jpg

Does anyone want to change their vote?
Geez, splashing AE911T's logo, as if it actually had the slightest significance, isn't going to get you any votes.

You'd get much more mileage out of, say, weaseling your way out of the obvious fact that this post pretty much obliterates WHEREAS #9 of the AE911Truth Resolution being presented to AIA in May.

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Old 9th April 2016, 01:55 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Does anyone want to change their vote?
It's so cute that you think that's impressive.

Dave
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Old 9th April 2016, 01:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
http://i64.tinypic.com/2na89ra.jpg

Does anyone want to change their vote?
When will you vote? It's starting to look like a Poisson Distribution with a very small value of Lambda.
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Old 9th April 2016, 02:00 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
http://i64.tinypic.com/2na89ra.jpg

Does anyone want to change their vote?
What would be the convincing factor? Would it be a flashy logo or the insignificant amount of support?
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Old 9th April 2016, 02:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
http://i64.tinypic.com/2na89ra.jpg

Does anyone want to change their vote?
2,500?

They finally merged with NAMBLA?
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Old 9th April 2016, 02:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DaveThomasNMSR View Post
Geez, splashing AE911T's logo, as if it actually had the slightest significance, isn't going to get you any votes.

You'd get much more mileage out of, say, weaseling your way out of the obvious fact that this post pretty much obliterates WHEREAS #9 of the AE911Truth Resolution being presented to AIA in May.

The video shows fire.

I'm not going to debate the rest because the definitions are entirely subjective.
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Old 9th April 2016, 02:39 PM   #19
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The reality is less impressive:

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Old 9th April 2016, 03:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
The video shows fire.

I'm not going to debate the rest because the definitions are entirely subjective.
As a firefighter, I laugh at their ridiculous and patently dishonest claim about the WTC 7 fires.

But never mind that; you've told us how AE911 "learned from their mistakes" and is presumably just gonna knock this one out of the park. I predict they will fail again, overwhelmingly - less than 10%. If you're right, I'll say they might be onto something. If I'm right, will you (a) acknowledge they've got nothing, (b) say AIA is full of incompetents and stooges, or (c) gives another chorus of "Wait til next year"?

I'm predicting that they'll get some marginally less miserable percentage than before, and you'll claim that as a groundswell of support, and thus (c).
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Old 9th April 2016, 03:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
The video shows fire.

I'm not going to debate the rest because the definitions are entirely subjective.
You're a funny guy. You talk about debate but refuse to engage in it. All you have ever done is make a statement then expect people to prove it wrong.
"debate" you? You don't even know the meaning of the word.
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Old 9th April 2016, 06:25 PM   #22
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Last year's resolution was worded without any overt conspiracism. In principle, a person could have voted for it without believing in any Trutherism, merely desiring a new engineering report.

The new one is 100 proof conspiracy crazy. It practically accuses FDNY of being part of the plot. I doubt it'll get 1% of the vote.
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Old 9th April 2016, 06:36 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DaveThomasNMSR View Post
I just noticed that the official A911Truth banner image for their AIA resolution is subtitled "Beyond Misinformation."

How utterly and ironically appropriate!

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/d03bf3...be3057b248.jpg
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
http://i64.tinypic.com/2na89ra.jpg

Does anyone want to change their vote?
Do you want to say anything about your choice of the size of the logo versus that which AE911T chose in the poster Dave shows?
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Old 9th April 2016, 07:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Last year's resolution was worded without any overt conspiracism. In principle, a person could have voted for it without believing in any Trutherism, merely desiring a new engineering report.

The new one is 100 proof conspiracy crazy. It practically accuses FDNY of being part of the plot. I doubt it'll get 1% of the vote.
I noticed this too. I wonder if they will also do the same in their booth. They were always careful to hide their true colors. In fact I don't think they mentioned CD at all at their booth.
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Old 9th April 2016, 07:30 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Do you want to say anything about your choice of the size of the logo versus that which AE911T chose in the poster Dave shows?
I copied and pasted from Facebook. I did nothing to edit it.
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Old 9th April 2016, 08:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
Oh dear, another poll not kind to the twoofers, what will the lurkers think?
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Old 10th April 2016, 12:22 AM   #27
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Architects are far from the most informed group about building collapses. We also only need a passable knowledge of what holds a building up, believe it or not. Enough to have sensible conversations with the structural engineers who actually design the structure. Architects involved with the design of multi-storey buildings will set out the floors, the lift and stair wells, and the toilet areas, send the drawings to the engineers and ask for column sizes and locations, and a design (ie thickness of walls) for the stair, services & lift cores. When we get the engineer's design back we call them in and tell them to make it all smaller and further apart, which they try to do a little bit.

So consider an architect vote on the collapse of a building to be no more than expressing a very well-informed layman's viewpoint. The people who count in this regard (and why they would be voting on such a thing is beyond me), are structural engineers. Structural engineers, note. Not civil engineers, mechanical engineers, services engineers, and all such assorted engineers who no doubt pad-out FF's list of thousands who back his nut-job conspiracy.........structural engineers only. There is a specialist sub-set of structural engineers involved in reverse engineering building collapses, and in advising demolition contractors. Their opinions are the ones which should be given some weight.

So, a direct question for Fallacy Flag: How many of your list of 2500 are structural engineers? How many are specialist demolitions structural engineers? Where can we find the list of names so that qualifications and membership of professional bodies can be assessed?
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Old 10th April 2016, 01:25 AM   #28
Ape of Good Hope
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How many of your list of 2500 are structural engineers? How many are specialist demolitions structural engineers? Where can we find the list of names so that qualifications and membership of professional bodies can be assessed?

I doubt FF wants to 'go there', so here's a thread on the AE signatories from 2014:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=274881

From post 22 onwards there's an exchange between various forum members that sums up the misleading nature of AE911Truth's list of professional signatories. Particularly pertinent post here from JSanderO.


And here's a post from Oystein, from the venerable AE911 Petition thread, with his downloadable list of AE911Truth membership data:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=847
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Old 10th April 2016, 01:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Architects are far from the most informed group about building collapses. We also only need a passable knowledge of what holds a building up, believe it or not. Enough to have sensible conversations with the structural engineers who actually design the structure. Architects involved with the design of multi-storey buildings will set out the floors, the lift and stair wells, and the toilet areas, send the drawings to the engineers and ask for column sizes and locations, and a design (ie thickness of walls) for the stair, services & lift cores. When we get the engineer's design back we call them in and tell them to make it all smaller and further apart, which they try to do a little bit.

So consider an architect vote on the collapse of a building to be no more than expressing a very well-informed layman's viewpoint. The people who count in this regard (and why they would be voting on such a thing is beyond me), are structural engineers. Structural engineers, note. Not civil engineers, mechanical engineers, services engineers, and all such assorted engineers who no doubt pad-out FF's list of thousands who back his nut-job conspiracy.........structural engineers only. There is a specialist sub-set of structural engineers involved in reverse engineering building collapses, and in advising demolition contractors. Their opinions are the ones which should be given some weight.

So, a direct question for Fallacy Flag: How many of your list of 2500 are structural engineers? How many are specialist demolitions structural engineers? Where can we find the list of names so that qualifications and membership of professional bodies can be assessed?
Not only that... high rises is a specialty that many structural engineers don't get involved with. The money point here is that architects have SOME training in statics, strength of materials and so forth... and are legally allowed to design structures. Few do and those that do.. do so for small buildings of a few stories at most. So architects a definitely a notch or two above lay persons including biologists and sanitary engineers when it comes to matters of structure. There is no such field as forensic architecture.

You don't need an expert, but you do need someone who is informed about the event and the relevant issues.
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Old 16th April 2016, 12:19 PM   #30
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Poisson Distribution Results

Based on the tally as of today (0-4%: 28 votes, 5-9%:5 votes), I made a fit using the Poisson Distribution:


The mean, μ, was obtained as the weighted averages of the vote tallies (28,5,0,...)and their respective midpoints (2 is midway between 0 and 4, 7 falls midway between 5 and 9, and so on).

Summing the Poisson probabilities for k=0 through k=4 yields 85.42%, pretty close to the vote tally of 28 (84.85%). Likewise, for 5-9, sum of the Poisson probabilities was 14.52%, versus the tally of 5 (15.15%).

Bottom line: it's not looking very good for Gage!
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Old 16th April 2016, 02:03 PM   #31
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To be fair, this is no more than a perfect example of the Emperor of China fallacy...

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Old 16th April 2016, 05:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
Much the same result. Margin of error +/- 3 percentage points.
So it is conceivable that the number could go below zero, perhaps by recantations of last time's vote?

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Architects are far from the most informed group.
Fixed it for you.

No, I love architects. They can be artists working in the real world, producing objects both beautiful and functional. HOWEVER, others need engineers to clean up messes caused by their conviction that two objects can occupy the same space. Or when they forget the function in their reach for beauty. Case in point is the TRUMP tower in Chicago. Utterly gorgeous, but the floorplans for individual apartments are small and awkwardly shaped. Which is why I hate architects.
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Old 17th April 2016, 03:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
So it is conceivable that the number could go below zero, perhaps by recantations of last time's vote?

Fixed it for you.

No, I love architects. They can be artists working in the real world, producing objects both beautiful and functional. HOWEVER, others need engineers to clean up messes caused by their conviction that two objects can occupy the same space. Or when they forget the function in their reach for beauty. Case in point is the TRUMP tower in Chicago. Utterly gorgeous, but the floorplans for individual apartments are small and awkwardly shaped. Which is why I hate architects.
You hate architects because a developer is driving the floor plan size to maximize ROI?
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Old 17th April 2016, 05:09 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Emperor of China fallacy
What's that, please? (Tried searching but no luck.)
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Old 17th April 2016, 07:08 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
What's that, please? (Tried searching but no luck.)
Really? I had no trouble finding an explanation when searching for 'emperor of china fallacy'. http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...Number=9539800
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Old 17th April 2016, 08:01 AM   #36
Maurice Ledifficile
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
What's that, please? (Tried searching but no luck.)
Seriously?
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Old 17th April 2016, 08:45 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
You hate architects because a developer is driving the floor plan size to maximize ROI?
I'm happy to blame that particular developer for most of the troubles of the world, but he doesn't seem to be a hands-on manager. I assume he never saw a floorplan, just beautiful 3D renderings. He sold his own apartment before it was finished, I assume because he went there, looked around, and said, "This isn't as big as I expected. I wanted YUUUUUUGE!"

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Old 18th April 2016, 05:05 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Really? I had no trouble finding an explanation when searching for 'emperor of china fallacy'. http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...Number=9539800
Originally Posted by Maurice Ledifficile View Post
Yes! I tried "emperor of china" + fallacy and + "logical fallacy" and only got unrelated articles. Thanks.
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Old 18th April 2016, 11:57 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
To be fair, this is no more than a perfect example of the Emperor of China fallacy...

Dave
But it does tell us the current "over/under" betting line on this site.

I'm an optimist: Will anyone give me odds on an even smaller vote this year?
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Old 18th April 2016, 02:11 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
But it does tell us the current "over/under" betting line on this site.

I'm an optimist: Will anyone give me odds on an even smaller vote this year?
I'll give 3 to 1 in favor of this year's resolution failing worse than last year's. For one thing, the resolution this year is loaded with Truther nonsense, while a naive person could have voted for last year's, not knowing its context.

For another thing, proximity to New York will probably mean more attendance by New York architects.
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