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Old 27th April 2016, 10:19 PM   #1
yankee451
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The truss straps

The truss straps should have been covered with concrete.



Can anyone explain why the truss straps would still be hanging from the walls where the lobby ceiling trusses were attached? Notice how they are also hanging from the level which should have been the ceiling to the first mechanical floor:

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...uss-straps.png

When zooming in to the lobby ceiling material it can be seen that no concrete was poured, which can also be said of the floors above it.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...p-of-floor.jpg


For the mechanical floors there were open air walkways, hence the cladding wrapping all around the columns at that level.



So what can explain the truss straps still being there when the trusses they were attached to are nowhere to be seen?

Also notice how above the first mechanical level there is no sign of any floor material on the spandrels - no truss straps, nothing, not even any interior finishes are visible all the way down to the lobby floor. Had there been real floors installed at the time of destruction there should be some evidence of them just as there is evidence of lobby ceiling material.



Larger view here



Larger view here.

Last edited by yankee451; 27th April 2016 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 27th April 2016, 10:42 PM   #2
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Never has so much debris then disappeared so completely .
That Chaney boy sure knew how to organise matters .
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Old 27th April 2016, 10:51 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
Never has so much debris then disappeared so completely .
That Chaney boy sure knew how to organise matters .
I'm sure Cheney was just middle management for the money power, but they sure did clean it up in a hurry. FEMA's photo-op was taken after they had already been cleaning up with heavy equipment for some time - so these photos of dogs and search and rescue teams are comical.


http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo.../FEMA-0026.jpg
http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-sculpture.jpg
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Old 27th April 2016, 10:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The truss straps should have been covered with concrete.


Can anyone explain why the truss straps would still be hanging from the walls where the lobby ceiling trusses were attached? Notice how they are also hanging from the level which should have been the ceiling to the first mechanical floor:


When zooming in to the lobby ceiling material it can be seen that no concrete was poured, which can also be said of the floors above it.

So what can explain the truss straps still being there when the trusses they were attached to are nowhere to be seen?
Yankee451, could you please take care to post photos of such a size that they don't distort the screen and require panning sideways to view the whole image as well as accessing the Quote buttons etc. Thanks.

As to your questions........

Those wouldn't be called truss straps in the UK, as a truss is a roof structure. However, leaving that aside, they are horizontal restraint straps, and they are attached both to the floors and the walls. That's their purpose: attaching walls to floors, usually for the purpose of preventing any distortion of external walls under loading. Could you check your terminology and demonstrate that you are using the correct term?

So, why are they still attached to the walls after the floor has gone? Well, what would you expect them to be attached to? If they had fallen with the floors, you would be asking why they weren't attached to the walls, or somesuch, whereas all this shows is that the strength of their attachment to the walls exceeded the strength of their attachment to the floors relative to the forces at work in the collapse of the building. The connections between walls and floors had to fail somewhere given the progressive collapse of the floors, and they failed in such a manner as to leave the straps attached to the walls. There is no story here.
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Yankee451, could you please take care to post photos of such a size that they don't distort the screen and require panning sideways to view the whole image as well as accessing the Quote buttons etc. Thanks.

As to your questions........

Those wouldn't be called truss straps in the UK, as a truss is a roof structure. However, leaving that aside, they are horizontal restraint straps, and they are attached both to the floors and the walls. That's their purpose: attaching walls to floors, usually for the purpose of preventing any distortion of external walls under loading. Could you check your terminology and demonstrate that you are using the correct term?

So, why are they still attached to the walls after the floor has gone? Well, what would you expect them to be attached to? If they had fallen with the floors, you would be asking why they weren't attached to the walls, or somesuch, whereas all this shows is that the strength of their attachment to the walls exceeded the strength of their attachment to the floors relative to the forces at work in the collapse of the building. The connections between walls and floors had to fail somewhere given the progressive collapse of the floors, and they failed in such a manner as to leave the straps attached to the walls. There is no story here.
What's in a name, eh?



The point being that the straps (their word, not mine) sure didn't fail on the lobby ceiling connections which as we all know existed because well, it was the lobby. The truss straps were visible there which is proof positive that at least at those levels, there was no concrete poured. Moving up from there there is no sign of ANY material where the alleged floors met the walls. If we are to believe the official faithful we are to believe that although there were remains of the lobby ceiling which was not constructed of poured concrete, the floors that DID have poured concrete have no sign of them at all?

And how could all the interior finishes be removed, leaving only the exterior three sides to the columns, almost as if they were gutted, hollow shells?

Last edited by yankee451; 27th April 2016 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 27th April 2016, 11:36 PM   #6
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So... basically your musings are just a long winded way of saying:

"empty towers, vicsims!"

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Old 27th April 2016, 11:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
.......The point being that the straps (their word, not mine) sure didn't fail on the lobby ceiling connections which as we all know existed because well, it was the lobby. The truss straps were visible there
The straps didn't fail anywhere. They were pulled out of all the floors that fell, but remained attached to the walls. Why is this any sort of problem? What else could ever happen during progressive collapse of a building?

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
....... which is proof positive that at least at those levels, there was no concrete poured.........
No, it is proof positive that the floor collapsed.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:03 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
.....Those wouldn't be called truss straps in the UK, as a truss is a roof structure. However, leaving that aside, they are horizontal restraint straps.........
Let me beef that up a bit. A truss strap here is a strap holding a roof truss in place. The term is therefore taken, and so another one is used (horizontal restraint strap). I am not claiming that the wrong term has been used in the OP, simply that the term is used differently from the way I understand it. I have no problem with accepting that this could be the correct useage in the US.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:18 AM   #9
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Apart from the obvious explanations given above, lack of concrete on that floor would make using it as a floor very difficult, not to mention the loud complaining by the people who fitted out the office space.

And what earthly connection could the supposed lack of concrete have on 9/11 CT matters? It made the structure marginally weaker just above ground level?

Weird thread.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The straps didn't fail anywhere. They were pulled out of all the floors that fell, but remained attached to the walls.
Only on the lobby ceiling/floor and mechanical room ceiling? There was obviously no concrete poured there because had there been the straps would have been encased therein. See the dilemma?

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Why is this any sort of problem? What else could ever happen during progressive collapse of a building?
See above. Had the truss straps been encased in concrete they would not have been simply hanging by on the walls with each one neatly removed from where it was attached to the knuckle would they? Where is the concrete that they were encased in? If these floors didn't have poured concrete *as is the claim!* then what else did they elaborate on?

Again, the truss straps are proof that at these levels, there was never any concrete poured, AND they are proof that there wasn't any "progressive collapse" - they were dismantled. AND the complete absence of interior finishes or floor material of any kind above that level is a clue that at least at the time of demolition, those floors weren't there.

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No, it is proof positive that the floor collapsed.
Had that occurred there would be evidence of the floor systems that were cut away where they met the wall. Look around - see the 220 acres of trusses, floor decks and concrete? Nope, neither do I.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Apart from the obvious explanations given above, lack of concrete on that floor would make using it as a floor very difficult, not to mention the loud complaining by the people who fitted out the office space.

And what earthly connection could the supposed lack of concrete have on 9/11 CT matters? It made the structure marginally weaker just above ground level?

Weird thread.
Weird rationalization.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Only on the lobby ceiling/floor and mechanical room ceiling?
You haven't demonstrated that this only occurred at this level.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
There was obviously no concrete poured there because had there been the straps would have been encased therein.
Not if the floors were broken away, as they were by the progressive collapse of the entire structure. I say again, the straps were left attached to the walls because the floors were removed by impact from above. This left the restraint straps attached to the walls. The collapse could have taken the straps with the floors as they fell, but then you would be asking why there were no straps attached to the walls.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Had the truss straps been encased in concrete they would not have been simply hanging by on the walls with each one neatly removed from where it was attached to the knuckle would they?
Yes they would. That's exactly what would have happened.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Where is the concrete that they were encased in?
In the pile of rubble on the ground below.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Had that occurred there would be evidence of the floor systems that were cut away where they met the wall. Look around - see the 220 acres of trusses, floor decks and concrete? Nope, neither do I.
No, neither do I. That stuff was removed 15 years ago.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:46 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Weird rationalization.
You've moved on to suggest there were no concrete floors anywhere in the buildings? That's laughable. Ha ha ha.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:53 AM   #14
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Every time I think the Truthers can't get any dumber, they hit themselves in the head with a hammer, and sure enough, their IQ drops. It's fascinating.
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Old 28th April 2016, 12:57 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Every time I think the Truthers can't get any dumber, they hit themselves in the head with a hammer, and sure enough, their IQ drops. It's fascinating.
I'm not sure I agree. I don't think anything has got dumber than this poster's claim that each floor supported all the floors above it.......the idiocy that drew me into this stupid discussion in the first place. I mean, look at the photos in the OP of this thread and tell me how anybody could possibly imagine for a second that each floor supports all the floors above it.
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Old 28th April 2016, 02:05 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by MikeG
...snip...
Edited by jsfisher:  Moderated text redacted.

Cheney is banged to rights but the detail involved to demonstrate is beyond the scope of this chat site and my feeling is that here we have unbroken ranks of closed minds .
So each to their own until full disclosure finally arrives .
As for debating with you -- a waste of my time . Someone who thinks rudeness over a typo error is of the slightest importance just doesn't figure in my world .

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Old 28th April 2016, 02:19 AM   #17
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Where did the occupants of the towers go each day if there were no floors???
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Old 28th April 2016, 02:44 AM   #18
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First of all there were no pre assembled chex panels below floor 6. There were tree columns. The lobby was 6 stories tall... story was a mech floor.... there was a mezzanine at floor level 2. The rest of the lobby had no floors.

Second the mech floors did not use bar joists, they use standard beam and girder framing.

What you refer to as knuckles were the truss bars which projected up into where the concrete was poured to function as shear studs and make the trusses and the slab composite.

The rest of your post/poit is unintelligible
Attached Files
File Type: pdf trees.pdf (13.7 KB, 17 views)

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Old 28th April 2016, 02:58 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
Cheney is banged to rights but the detail involved to demonstrate is beyond the scope of this chat site and my feeling is that here we have unbroken ranks of closed minds .......
Well no doubt it has been detailed elsewhere. How about just providing a link? As for closed minds: nope. Provide a scrap of supporting evidence and you'll get people interested. Provide incontrovertible evidence and you'll see minds being changed en masse (you might want to read the Lockerbie bombing thread to see that happen, for instance).
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Old 28th April 2016, 03:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Weird rationalization.
I have a video somewhere around here where I made a sample of concrete the same as the towers, heated it to 600c, and crushed it with my hand.
Do you have any Idea what happens to concrete once you heat it?
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Old 28th April 2016, 05:13 AM   #21
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oh good. another moronic thread. Can't we just combine them all?
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Old 28th April 2016, 05:19 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
I have a video somewhere around here where I made a sample of concrete the same as the towers, heated it to 600c, and crushed it with my hand.
Do you have any Idea what happens to concrete once you heat it?
Sometimes it explodes. Have you ever lit a bonfire on top of a piece of concrete? It can be dramatic. However, that isn't the explanation for these failures. This bit of ignorance is many scores of floors lower down than anything affected by fire.
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Old 28th April 2016, 06:01 AM   #23
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Old 28th April 2016, 06:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Let me beef that up a bit. A truss strap here is a strap holding a roof truss in place. The term is therefore taken, and so another one is used (horizontal restraint strap). I am not claiming that the wrong term has been used in the OP, simply that the term is used differently from the way I understand it. I have no problem with accepting that this could be the correct useage in the US.
A truss is a horizontal construction element built from smaller elements, as opposed to a monolithic beam. Not sure how the term truss is used in UK, but in US it only refers to the construction techniques not to where or how it gets used.

A roof truss replaces a stick-built rafter roof of 2x6 or 2x8 lumber with a triangular configuration of 2x4 pieces. 2x4 lumber is cheaper and lighter weight, and by dividing long runs of lumber with diagonal bracing even greater strength is possible than with rafters. The weakness in any construction element is the unsupported middle of a stick, and the longer it is the weaker it is. Diagonals cut those lengths into short bits with greater strength.

A floor truss replaces a solid material floor joist. Or in multi story construction, floor and ceiling joist. In current US residential construction, instead of 2x12 joists builders use wooden I-beams made of 2x2 with 1/2" plywood web which might even have weight reducing holes down the length like beams in a Hollywood Zeppelin.

A lighting truss in theatre or rock and roll is a boxlike arrangement of aluminum tubing. For road shows the lights are hung in the truss and travel inside it, eliminating hours of repetitive hassle for the crew and protecting the lightweight PAR can lights during load-in, load-out and transit.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The truss straps should have been covered with concrete.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...s-straps-2.jpg

Can anyone explain why the truss straps would still be hanging from the walls where the lobby ceiling trusses were attached? Notice how they are also hanging from the level which should have been the ceiling to the first mechanical floor:
.
You mean those diagonal wires in the red boxes. The diagonals in there with the rebar.You might notice that the rebar is visible in your photo. Are you expecting that the rebar was also not covered by concrete?
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
A truss is a horizontal construction element built from smaller elements, as opposed to a monolithic beam. Not sure how the term truss is used in UK, but in US it only refers to the construction techniques not to where or how it gets used.

A roof truss replaces a stick-built rafter roof of 2x6 or 2x8 lumber with a triangular configuration of 2x4 pieces. 2x4 lumber is cheaper and lighter weight, and by dividing long runs of lumber with diagonal bracing even greater strength is possible than with rafters. The weakness in any construction element is the unsupported middle of a stick, and the longer it is the weaker it is. Diagonals cut those lengths into short bits with greater strength.

A floor truss replaces a solid material floor joist. Or in multi story construction, floor and ceiling joist. In current US residential construction, instead of 2x12 joists builders use wooden I-beams made of 2x2 with 1/2" plywood web which might even have weight reducing holes down the length like beams in a Hollywood Zeppelin.

A lighting truss in theatre or rock and roll is a boxlike arrangement of aluminum tubing. For road shows the lights are hung in the truss and travel inside it, eliminating hours of repetitive hassle for the crew and protecting the lightweight PAR can lights during load-in, load-out and transit.
Errrm, thanks. There isn't a word of that that I didn't know already, being an architect, but thanks anyway.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:39 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
First of all there were no pre assembled chex panels below floor 6. There were tree columns. The lobby was 6 stories tall... story was a mech floor.... there was a mezzanine at floor level 2. The rest of the lobby had no floors.

Second the mech floors did not use bar joists, they use standard beam and girder framing.

What you refer to as knuckles were the truss bars which projected up into where the concrete was poured to function as shear studs and make the trusses and the slab composite.

The rest of your post/poit is unintelligible
The straps, SanderO. You danced all around them.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
I have a video somewhere around here where I made a sample of concrete the same as the towers, heated it to 600c, and crushed it with my hand.
Do you have any Idea what happens to concrete once you heat it?
I do but the NYPD seems to think that it turned to lava and that when it cooled down it became concrete again.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:46 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Errrm, thanks. There isn't a word of that that I didn't know already, being an architect, but thanks anyway.
Should I edit my post to add the caveat "in the US" in front of every sentence to prevent confusion? I was just trying to add value to the thread by expanding on the topic of the truss generally.

Your post suggested you may be unfamiliar with how we use the concept and term "truss" on this side of the pond and I value clear communications.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:47 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I do but the NYPD seems to think that it turned to lava and that when it cooled down it became concrete again.
Citation please. Non-goatse, if possible.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:47 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
Where did the occupants of the towers go each day if there were no floors???
Try to stick with explaining why the truss straps that were visible on the lobby ceiling wouldn't also be on every floor. That is, if the floors ever existed.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:49 AM   #32
waypastvne
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This photo looked a little weird to me. The lower right portion looked like a Mec floor, but I couldn't figure what the upper left portion of the photo was. It did not look like part of the WTC. So I hunted down its source.

It turns out that the upper left portion is part of the Brooklyn Bridge. (For sale if any one wants to buy it)


http://resoundings.org/PDF/Brooklyn_Bridge.pdf

Last edited by waypastvne; 28th April 2016 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:54 AM   #33
yankee451
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post

Not if the floors were broken away, as they were by the progressive collapse of the entire structure. I say again, the straps were left attached to the walls because the floors were removed by impact from above. This left the restraint straps attached to the walls. The collapse could have taken the straps with the floors as they fell, but then you would be asking why there were no straps attached to the walls.
Only the floors above the first mechanical floor had any remains of floor material, so in your scenario the floors that received the MOST "impact from above" are the floors that also contain the only evidence of any floor material at all.

That's quite a pretzel to twist.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:57 AM   #34
Andy_Ross
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Are you saying that the floors never existed and the buildings were never occupied?
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:06 AM   #35
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? is there a point

Originally Posted by Malbec View Post
Never has so much debris then disappeared so completely .
That Chaney boy sure knew how to organise matters .
9/11 truth off topic BS. Is there a point. What does Lon Chaney have to do with 8 months of clean up.

In the fantasy world of 9/11 truth only 9/11 truth followers can make up meaningless tripe which has nothing to do with the topic, truss straps, or 19 terrorists who did 9/11.

You posted in the no point thread of woo from missile fantasy expert at mocking the murder of thousands with lies about nonsense.
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-building..png

This photo looked a little weird to me. The lower right portion looked like a Mec floor, but I couldn't figure what the upper left portion of the photo was. It did not look like part of the WTC. So I hunted down its source.

It turns out that the upper left portion is part of the Brooklyn Bridge. (For sale if any one wants to buy it)


http://resoundings.org/PDF/Brooklyn_Bridge.pdf
The photo looks weird to you because you know little to noting about the twin towers or architecture.

The split photo shows the passage around the mech floors... with the grillage encloses the mech floor... the columns on the left have no glass to permit air flow. This is a behind the facade catwalk which is 2 stories tall and you can see the floor beams from the upper mech floor penetrating to the facade.

The left looks to be same thing perhaps

Last edited by JSanderO; 28th April 2016 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:13 AM   #37
beachnut
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
there was no concrete poured.
Another big lie. Why do you mock the murder of thousands with really dumb lies about 9/11?

Seek help from an structural engineer. You can't do 9/11 issues, you have some problems with reality.

What is your next fantasy. What do those close to your say about your lies and fantasy?
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:14 AM   #38
yankee451
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-building..png

This photo looked a little weird to me. The lower right portion looked like a Mec floor, but I couldn't figure what the upper left portion of the photo was. It did not look like part of the WTC. So I hunted down its source.

It turns out that the upper left portion is part of the Brooklyn Bridge. (For sale if any one wants to buy it)


http://resoundings.org/PDF/Brooklyn_Bridge.pdf
Okay. Its important to point out all the flaws, sure, but in this case the mechanical floor walkway image was offered to explain why only those columns had aluminum cladding on all sides.





Any comment as to why the truss straps would only be visible on floors that obviously never had concrete poured on them, but nothing above that point? Any comment about why ZERO interior finishes are visible anywhere? I keep hearing about a progressive collapse but that implies upper floors crushing lower floors, which also implies that there should be a pile of floor material somewhere.

The fact remains that the evidence indicates that the floors were not there. Had they been there would be evidence that they were, just as there was where the lobby ceiling was.
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:17 AM   #39
waypastvne
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post

The left looks to be same thing perhaps
No it's the Brooklyn Bridge did you check the link.


Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
The photo looks weird to you because you know little to noting about the twin towers or architecture.
Apology ?
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:19 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
.......Your post suggested you may be unfamiliar with how we use the concept and term "truss" on this side of the pond and I value clear communications.
It wasn't unfamiliarity with "truss" that was the issue (nor indeed "strap"), but that "truss strap" is a very particular thing here, and wouldn't be the term we would use for the horizontal restraint strap that is the subject of this nonsensical thread. But yeah, I'm with you on the notion of clarity, which is why I issued the post you responded to, to clarify an earlier query I had posted which may have been ambiguous. My clarification evidently caused confusion, so my apologies for that.
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