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Old 28th April 2016, 07:21 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
Pouring of concrete in the towers.

https://youtu.be/Jwc49cZKunQ?t=9m47s
Seen it - thanks.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:22 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
That ends the discussion. The straps were angles not flat bar and were installed below the floor pans. Mystery solved.

Yankee do you need one of us to put an arrow on the photo pointing to the remains of the concrete floor or can you find it yourself ?
I can find it, thanks. Is this the same tower? Are there any wider shots? I mean that's the sort of thing I would expect to see wherever there was a concrete floor.

Last edited by yankee451; 28th April 2016 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:37 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I can find it, thanks. Is this the same tower? Are there any wider shots? I mean that's the sort of thing I would expect to see wherever there was a concrete floor.
I don't think I've seen it. Do you have a point? If so, please explain it consciously.

Can you do this without a YouTube link?
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:39 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I don't think I've seen it. Do you have a point? If so, please explain it consciously.

Can you do this without a YouTube link?
Yeah, trying to find a wider shot of the shot of the concrete floor for context.
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Old 28th April 2016, 07:45 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Yeah, trying to find a wider shot of the shot of the concrete floor for context.
That's your point? Do you wonder why people mock you?
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:27 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
That is, if the floors ever existed.
Ahhhh......of course!!!!!
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Old 28th April 2016, 08:27 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
That's your point? Do you wonder why people mock you?
I consider the source, so no I don't wonder nor do I care.

Any more images of that concrete floor that can show context and location?
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Old 28th April 2016, 09:21 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
That ends the discussion. The straps were angles not flat bar and were installed below the floor pans. Mystery solved.

Yankee do you need one of us to put an arrow on the photo pointing to the remains of the concrete floor or can you find it yourself ?
Say - are those damper connections I see?

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Old 28th April 2016, 09:29 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Say - are those damper connections I see?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...onnections.png
What is your theory about the no concrete floors btw? So why would there be no concrete floors? Whats the point of having no concrete floors? And how did you come up with that theory?
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Old 28th April 2016, 09:33 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
What is your theory about the no concrete floors btw? So why would there be no concrete floors? Whats the point of having no concrete floors? And how did you come up with that theory?
Who gives a toss about my "theory," no one here, for sure. If those are my old friends the damper connections I can't help but wonder why they aren't visible on every floor.
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Old 28th April 2016, 09:38 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Who gives a toss about my "theory," no one here, for sure. If those are my old friends the damper connections I can't help but wonder why they aren't visible on every floor.
If you don't think anyone cares, why bring it up? I am just curious as to why you think there were no concrete floors. And what would be the point of no concrete floors in an office building?
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Old 28th April 2016, 09:42 PM   #92
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You come on here posting images of floor connections, and ask us why there is no concrete floor attached to them. You give no context as to why you have an issue with that, or what you believe is wrong with it. So how can we give you a proper answer like that?
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:01 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
You come on here posting images of floor connections, and ask us why there is no concrete floor attached to them. You give no context as to why you have an issue with that, or what you believe is wrong with it. So how can we give you a proper answer like that?
I am simply asking for a bigger picture of the concrete, considering the images I have posted that show something other than concrete it is worth investigating. Simmer down, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Get over it.
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:03 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
If those are my old friends the damper connections I can't help but wonder why they aren't visible on every floor.

Left hand edge of your photo a little over half way up there is a damper visible under the 7th floor.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo.../FEMA-0240.jpg


What floors do you think didn't have dampers.
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:09 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
If you don't think anyone cares, why bring it up?
Because I care. Obviously.


Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
I am just curious as to why you think there were no concrete floors. And what would be the point of no concrete floors in an office building?
I have my reasons, the history of the complex and the real estate market, the evidence of removed bolts, the total absence of floor material beyond what is visible where they met the walls, not to mention the absence of the pile of IBeams and dozens of bright yellow car-sized elevator motors and the miles of cables, toilets, electrical cables, HVAC ducting, conduit, etc., etc.

Last edited by yankee451; 28th April 2016 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:27 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
Left hand edge of your photo a little over half way up there is a damper visible under the 7th floor.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo.../FEMA-0240.jpg
My point exactly - don't the dampers prove there were no IBeams there?

Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
What floors do you think didn't have dampers.
In zooming in to search for dampers, are those straps that I see?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo.../FEMA-0240.jpg
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:44 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
don't the dampers prove there were no IBeams there?
Top flange of I beam is attached to the spandrel, bottom flange rest on a seat, damper attached to spandrel and lower flange. What is so hard to understand ?
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:44 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
That ends the discussion. The straps were angles not flat bar and were installed below the floor pans. Mystery solved.

Yankee do you need one of us to put an arrow on the photo pointing to the remains of the concrete floor or can you find it yourself ?
Actually this opens it up even more. In the same image we can compare the differences between the remains of trusses with the remains of concrete. Is there a wider image of this shot?
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:52 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
Top flange of I beam is attached to the spandrel, bottom flange rest on a seat, damper attached to spandrel and lower flange. What is so hard to understand ?
In your own image can be seen the difference between an assumed ibeam supported floor with reinforced concrete but no dampers, and right above it you can see the remains of what must have been a truss supported ceiling with dampers. Now that you've provided this excellent image of what we should expect to see where a concrete floor met a wall, I am very interested in seeing a bigger image of this shot.

http://www.city-data.com/disaster-ph...hotos/5476.jpg
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Old 28th April 2016, 10:55 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
Top flange of I beam is attached to the spandrel, bottom flange rest on a seat, damper attached to spandrel and lower flange. What is so hard to understand ?
Can you point out the dampers above the mechanical level? Can you see the straps? Any sign of concrete floors?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo.../FEMA-0240.jpg
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:09 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Because I care. Obviously.




I have my reasons, the history of the complex and the real estate market, the evidence of removed bolts, the total absence of floor material beyond what is visible where they met the walls, not to mention the absence of the pile of IBeams and dozens of bright yellow car-sized elevator motors and the miles of cables, toilets, electrical cables, HVAC ducting, conduit, etc., etc.
What removed bolts are you talking about? The bolts connecting the outer wall sections? The bolts sheered, so the remains fell into the hollow columns. And do you really think something recognizable will remain on a floor when an entire building just collapsed on itself?
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:13 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
......Any sign of concrete floors?........
Why do you keep asking this question? The floors fell into a heap on the ground.
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:18 PM   #103
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Just look for fresh kills wtc debris on youtube.
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:28 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
What removed bolts are you talking about? The bolts connecting the outer wall sections? The bolts sheered, so the remains fell into the hollow columns. And do you really think something recognizable will remain on a floor when an entire building just collapsed on itself?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRy-c3mMlMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4tckn7s7II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2pa_R8O2As
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcEqB72Ao6U

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo.../FEMA-0120.jpg

Notice how the bolts on the column to the bottom left are bent, almost as if the inner two bolts were removed which allowed the column to fall away from the wall, bending the bolts in the process:
http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...n-spandrel.jpg

Last edited by yankee451; 28th April 2016 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:30 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Why do you keep asking this question? The floors fell into a heap on the ground.
Oh? According to governor Pataki they were turned to dust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDuBi8KyOhw
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:41 PM   #106
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These floors?

http://www.stevespak.com/fires/manhattan/wtc6.html

Scroll down.
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:49 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
I assume you're referring to the pile of debris right next to what appears to be the bathtub wall?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-cont...athtub-map.jpg

Note that there was a lot of steel and concrete around the bathtub wall that wouldn't count as floors from the WTC2.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...lding&langid=5

Have you considered that maybe this is yet another example of the FDNY spreading false information?

Last edited by yankee451; 28th April 2016 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 28th April 2016, 11:50 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Oh? According to governor Pataki they were turned to dust.........
Yep, they'll have done that as well. Remember, concrete is made up of "fines" and shingle (coarser stone), and that the floors were also made of steel. Lots of the dust will be from concrete fines, and obviously the steel didn't turn to dust. The rest of the concrete will have ended up as rubble on the ground, and even you can't claim there was none of that.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:03 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Yep, they'll have done that as well. Remember, concrete is made up of "fines" and shingle (coarser stone), and that the floors were also made of steel. Lots of the dust will be from concrete fines, and obviously the steel didn't turn to dust. The rest of the concrete will have ended up as rubble on the ground, and even you can't claim there was none of that.
Obviously. Speaking of which since the concrete was pulverized to dust and then spread about the city, what happened to the steel trusses and floor pans that supported it?

Anyone who has ever tried to pulverize concrete knows how ridiculous it is to claim that 220 acres of reinforced floors turned to dust anyway, never mind trying to explain the absence of trusses and ibeams.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:04 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I assume you're referring to the pile of debris right next to what appears to be the bathtub wall?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-cont...athtub-map.jpg

Note that there was a lot of steel and concrete around the bathtub wall that wouldn't count as floors from the WTC2.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...lding&langid=5

Have you considered that maybe this is yet another example of the FDNY spreading false information?
You truly are a disgusting person claiming that the fdny was involved. Don't bother replying anymore to me. You will be on ignore.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:06 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
You truly are a disgusting person claiming that the fdny was involved. Don't bother replying anymore to me. You will be on ignore.
Aaaahhh - here we go with the outrage card. See this is where I must remind the class that if all it takes to make something true is to have it claimed by the authorities then anyone with a few billion dollars wins.

Grow up.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:26 AM   #112
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If you need to have an entire fire department lie, the authorities lie, and billionaires funding the lie... You may be unwise to assume it is others who need to grow up.

Even if you believe everything you have posted here, about there being no concrete, or no floors, or any of these inexplicable conspiracies (how many people just pretended to go to work there?) then you can at least stop, take a breath and imagine how this all sounds to the rest of the world.

Everybody else here sees a tragedy where people died, and people mourned. What you are suggesting sounds like it was plotted by Wile E Coyote.

You might want to consider that the outrage, the grief, and the horror is real for others, before deeming that they should grow up.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:34 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Obviously. Speaking of which since the concrete was pulverized to dust and then spread about the city, what happened to the steel trusses and floor pans that supported it?

Anyone who has ever tried to pulverize concrete knows how ridiculous it is to claim that 220 acres of reinforced floors turned to dust anyway, never mind trying to explain the absence of trusses and ibeams.
You don't read what I write, do you. I explained that of the floor structure it is only the fines in the concrete which could turn to dust. That's a lot of dust, but nobody in their right mind could claim that the whole floor turned to dust.

There is no absence of trusses and RSJs. They are piled up in the debris in that set of photos linked to above by Jaytje46. Let's turn this around for a second. What do you think is piled up in the debris?
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:37 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
If you need to have an entire fire department lie, the authorities lie, and billionaires funding the lie... You may be unwise to assume it is others who need to grow up.
Why would the entire fire department have to lie? Only a few at the top would need to be involved and the rest would just follow orders. I'm sure anyone who figured it out would also know that there would be no one to turn to if they wanted to blow the whistle. Let's all grow up and stop trusting authority by virtue of their authority, especially in this country and especially in New York City, the corruption capital of the country if not of the whole world.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:39 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
........I must remind the class that if all it takes to make something true is to have it claimed by the authorities then anyone with a few billion dollars wins........
Nobody has ever claimed that this is what determines the truth. The truth in this case is self-evident. We all watched countless hours of footage from dozens of different cameras showing planes crashing into the building, a fire ensuing, and then progressive collapse occurring. We then all read the reports by proper experts into the events of the day. The same burden is on you lot: something isn't true just because a few keyboard warriors say so. You are wrong in everything you claim, and your posts are just game playing.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:41 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
.........the corruption capital of the country if not of the whole world.
You've never travelled, have you. Can I suggest you spend a month in Zaire (now DRC) or Republique Centrafricaine (CAR) and then report back to us on corruption.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:54 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You've never travelled, have you.

Are we counting travel beyond the boundaries of reality?
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:54 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You've never travelled, have you. Can I suggest you spend a month in Zaire (now DRC) or Republique Centrafricaine (CAR) and then report back to us on corruption.
Yeah, the wealthiest people on the planet are all sugar and spice.
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Old 29th April 2016, 12:57 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
He's referring to the image in the link above where the FDNY claims to have captured pancaked floors from WTC2. Note the location of the slurry wall and that that area had a whole lot of heavy steel and concrete infrastructure. So can we agree that the FDNY person who posted the image of the collapsed floors from WTC2 must be mistaken?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thearc...ne/6979092823/
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Old 29th April 2016, 01:03 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You don't read what I write, do you. I explained that of the floor structure it is only the fines in the concrete which could turn to dust. That's a lot of dust, but nobody in their right mind could claim that the whole floor turned to dust.
I read what you wrote and I think I understand that you're saying only the finest parts of the concreted turned to dust. All of it. Why wouldn't some of that concrete still be intact? You know - big chunks here and fine dust there, eh?

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
There is no absence of trusses and RSJs. They are piled up in the debris in that set of photos linked to above by Jaytje46. Let's turn this around for a second. What do you think is piled up in the debris?
I've seen the images. Can you identify the trusses for me please? 110 acres of floors needed to be supported by trusses and ibeams. The pile they have identified as floors from WTC2 is next to the slurry wall where there was plenty of heavy steel and concrete to account for those mislabled "pancaked floors" from WTC2.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thearc...ne/6979092823/
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