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Old 29th April 2016, 01:52 AM   #121
MikeG
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I read what you wrote and I think I understand that you're saying only the finest parts of the concreted turned to dust. All of it.
Where did I say that? How could anybody on the planet know that?

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Why wouldn't some of that concrete still be intact? You know - big chunks here and fine dust there, eh?
Where did I say that it wasn't?

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I've seen the images. Can you identify the trusses for me please?......
You're boring me now. Go look for yourself (and when you do, don't expect to find them as trusses: they've had enormous weights dropped on them from height). Are you claiming there were no trusses before the buildings fell? Or are you claiming that someone nefariously took them all away afterwards?
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Old 29th April 2016, 02:14 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Where did I say that? How could anybody on the planet know that?



Where did I say that it wasn't?



You're boring me now. Go look for yourself (and when you do, don't expect to find them as trusses: they've had enormous weights dropped on them from height). Are you claiming there were no trusses before the buildings fell? Or are you claiming that someone nefariously took them all away afterwards?
I shown him a video of concrete being poured, so I don't know what his issue is. And since hè won't elaborate on what kind of theory hè believes in, we will never understand his reasoning.
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Old 29th April 2016, 03:29 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I read what you wrote and I think I understand that you're saying only the finest parts of the concreted turned to dust. All of it. Why wouldn't some of that concrete still be intact? You know - big chunks here and fine dust there, eh?



I've seen the images. Can you identify the trusses for me please? 110 acres of floors needed to be supported by trusses and ibeams. The pile they have identified as floors from WTC2 is next to the slurry wall where there was plenty of heavy steel and concrete to account for those mislabled "pancaked floors" from WTC2.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thearc...ne/6979092823/

The building did not have 110 floors... it was 110 stories high.

The granularity of the destroyed concrete would be a direct result of how many collisions the concrete had which would fracture and abrade it to smaller and small chunks and release more and more dust. This is precisely how an industrial stone crusher produces stone dust from large rocks/bolders or concrete! The WTC floor were low strength NO STONE AGGREGATE and were rendered to dust and sand more efficiently that a typical high strength slab use in a road for example. There was little rebar used as well... probably only around openings etc. The 4" or so concrete pour was supported by the 24 ga fluted metal deck. The concrete was either brought up mixed via elevator or mixed on each floor. The span for the concrete was less than 80" or closer to 72" and the design load was reduced from the NYC code use for office floors of 100 PSF to 58 PSF.

All the collapsing towers show the same level of concrete crushing and proportion of dust.
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Old 29th April 2016, 03:33 AM   #124
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panels
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Old 29th April 2016, 03:43 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
......The WTC floor were low strength NO STONE AGGREGATE .......
Interesting. I didn't know that. That's more in the nature of a screed, then, and would have broken into fine grains and powder readily.
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Old 29th April 2016, 04:09 AM   #126
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Here's an interesting photo regarding the I-beams:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/...aed34e1f_b.jpg

Edit: Another one:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/...3c8cce72_b.jpg
And one more:
http://static5.businessinsider.com/i...ly-19-1971.jpg

I'm trying to figure out if this one is relevant:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/...80a90a6f_b.jpg

Last edited by pgimeno; 29th April 2016 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 29th April 2016, 04:19 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Here's an interesting photo regarding the I-beams:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/...aed34e1f_b.jpg
As an aside, they really were ugly buildings, weren't they. An extremely visually-heavy facade, with the minor curved elements in the "trees" being in sharp contrast to the rectilinear nature of the rest of the building. The materials were near Brutalist, which again doesn't sit well with an attempt to add in a semi-naturalistic element. I'd love to speculate what it might have looked like if Antoni Gaudi had designed it, but even the post-modernists (Piano, Foster, Rogers etc) would have made something much better in the place of the originals if time travelling was a thing.
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Old 29th April 2016, 06:44 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
Anyway, what are you trying to proof with your claim btw?
That every detail needs to be explain in the greatest detail and if it ain't what you have is evidence of a CT. Yank is an "unsinkable rubber ducky".
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Old 29th April 2016, 06:50 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Who gives a toss about my "theory," no one here, for sure. If those are my old friends the damper connections I can't help but wonder why they aren't visible on every floor.
You should care more since you are the one trying with great effort to convince all of us 9/11 was perpetrated not by terrorists but by some agency within the USA, namely the US government.
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Old 29th April 2016, 06:57 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Because I care. Obviously.




I have my reasons, the history of the complex and the real estate market, the evidence of removed bolts, the total absence of floor material beyond what is visible where they met the walls, not to mention the absence of the pile of IBeams and dozens of bright yellow car-sized elevator motors and the miles of cables, toilets, electrical cables, HVAC ducting, conduit, etc., etc.
"I have my reasons" . Don't be so cryptic we'd all like to know what motivates your reasoning. What you've listed above tells nothing about your fundamental motives. In other words where does this mistrust originate?
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Old 29th April 2016, 07:04 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
That every detail needs to be explain in the greatest detail and if it ain't what you have is evidence of a CT. Yank is an "unsinkable rubber ducky".
And any discrepancies between his "notions" and reality can easily be explained away by tossing another acronym of thousands of people into the conspiracy. Simples.
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Old 29th April 2016, 08:03 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
As an aside, they really were ugly buildings, weren't they. An extremely visually-heavy facade, with the minor curved elements in the "trees" being in sharp contrast to the rectilinear nature of the rest of the building. The materials were near Brutalist, which again doesn't sit well with an attempt to add in a semi-naturalistic element. I'd love to speculate what it might have looked like if Antoni Gaudi had designed it, but even the post-modernists (Piano, Foster, Rogers etc) would have made something much better in the place of the originals if time travelling was a thing.
Fashion.
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Old 29th April 2016, 08:03 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
But you just posted a photo of that very floor with concrete pored on it.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-walkway-2.png

There is even a drain in the floor to allow the rain that enters to escape.
I believe the screenshot below shows the section (on the right) through the fork at the seventh floor which is what the photo shows. I think the "FINISHED CEILING" note just above the section "F" notation is the ceiling we see above the mezzanine level in the lobby. That section shows concrete at that level. Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is drawing A-AB-313, FacadeElevations+SectionsAt7thFloorMechLevels located at http://www2.ae911truth.org/WTC1_electricaldrawings.php

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Old 29th April 2016, 08:07 AM   #134
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Another screenshot from the same drawing above showing a section looking at the fork perimeter columnfrom the inside. It also shows a concrete finished floor on top of I beams at the seventh floor.

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Old 29th April 2016, 08:12 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
That every detail needs to be explain in the greatest detail and if it ain't what you have is evidence of a CT. Yank is an "unsinkable rubber ducky".
Yankee seems to be a graduate of the JFK School of Conspiracism, where everything that "doesn't look right to me" and everything "I don't understand" is an "anomaly," and every such anomaly is taken as smoking-gun evidence of a hoax, and of course the only explanation for such an elaborate hoax is some sort of vast conspiracy, even if they can't articulate a coherent, plausible theory about it.
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Old 29th April 2016, 08:41 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
I shown him a video of concrete being poured, so I don't know what his issue is.
Good point. It was allegedly Colonial Sand and Stone that got the contract for the 10,000,000 sq. feet of concrete. Colonial at the time was owned by the Pope family, the wealthiest Italian immigrants in the history of Italian immigrants. Their trucks were pretty easy to identify, being painted in the colors of the Italian flag, but it is very difficult to find many of them in the images and videos of the construction site. If they were pumping concrete it was hidden from view so like so much else when it comes to the WTC, we're forced to take the words of some of the worlds' shadiest characters that the WTC was the fully completed city within the city they were advertising.

Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
[hilite]
And since hè won't elaborate on what kind of theory hè believes in, we will never understand his reasoning.
If you read between the lines you can figure it out.

About the architect:
http://yankee451.com/?p=43

About the history of the complex:
http://yankee451.com/?p=1765
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Old 29th April 2016, 08:59 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Good point. It was allegedly Colonial Sand and Stone that got the contract for the 10,000,000 sq. feet of concrete. Colonial at the time was owned by the Pope family, the wealthiest Italian immigrants in the history of Italian immigrants. Their trucks were pretty easy to identify, being painted in the colors of the Italian flag, but it is very difficult to find many of them in the images and videos of the construction site. If they were pumping concrete it was hidden from view so like so much else when it comes to the WTC, we're forced to take the words of some of the worlds' shadiest characters that the WTC was the fully completed city within the city they were advertising.



If you read between the lines you can figure it out.

About the architect:
http://yankee451.com/?p=43

About the history of the complex:
http://yankee451.com/?p=1765
Wait. What? So just because there is no image, which was a lot less common at that time of the construction, you don't believe they put concrete on each floor? Are you really that paranoid, that you don't believe it? So where did the people who supposedly did not work there each day, go to according to you?

So you are the kind which doesn't believe anything, without a picture, or a good movie. You are truly delusional.....
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:04 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post

If you read between the lines you can figure it out.
Why don't you man up, and just tell us what you believe.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:04 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
Another screenshot from the same drawing above showing a section looking at the fork perimeter columnfrom the inside. It also shows a concrete finished floor on top of I beams at the seventh floor.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...psqxke4s62.png
Great, more proof that the ibeams must have been removed.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:05 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
Wait. What? So just because there is no image, which was a lot less common at that time of the construction, you don't believe they put concrete on each floor? Are you really that paranoid, that you don't believe it? So where did the people who supposedly did not work there each day, go to according to you?

So you are the kind which doesn't believe anything, without a picture, or a good movie. You are truly delusional.....
Construction fraud happens every day, all the time, especially in New York city.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:07 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
Why don't you man up, and just tell us what you believe.
Aw shucks, how about I just tweet it to you.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:11 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Great, more proof that the ibeams must have been removed.
The whole building was removed. I'm sure you heard about the event. It would have been even more remarkable if the entire building had collapsed and all the RSJs had stayed in place, hovering in mid air, wouldn't you say?
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:13 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Construction fraud happens every day, all the time, especially in New York city.
If there were missing floors, does that mean that you have discovered that whole companies that claimed to be based in the WTC, paid employee taxes, health insurance contributions and so on, were non-existent?
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:14 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Construction fraud happens every day, all the time, especially in New York city.
Yeh, and no one working there never mentioned the floors without concrete, because they were in it to. I wonder how many times you were hit by a windmill growing up..... We got millions of conspirators pulling off the biggest attack in US history, and only you are smart enough to figure it all out. LOL

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Old 29th April 2016, 09:16 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
If there were missing floors, does that mean that you have discovered that whole companies that claimed to be based in the WTC, paid employee taxes, health insurance contributions and so on, were non-existent?
Its not a big leap from construction fraud to tax fraud. I am guessing that will be his answer.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:23 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
Its not a big leap from construction fraud to tax fraud. I am guessing that will be his answer.
I want to hear about all the thousands of people pretending to go to work every day, saying goodbye to their partners, heading off into NYC, then sitting around in cafes and parks until home-time, then telling their spouses all about what happened during their imaginary working day. They must have been paid a damn fortune to keep quiet for all these years.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:27 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Good point. It was allegedly Colonial Sand and Stone that got the contract for the 10,000,000 sq. feet of concrete. Colonial at the time was owned by the Pope family, the wealthiest Italian immigrants in the history of Italian immigrants. Their trucks were pretty easy to identify, being painted in the colors of the Italian flag, but it is very difficult to find many of them in the images and videos of the construction site. If they were pumping concrete it was hidden from view so like so much else when it comes to the WTC, we're forced to take the words of some of the worlds' shadiest characters that the WTC was the fully completed city within the city they were advertising.



If you read between the lines you can figure it out.

About the architect:
http://yankee451.com/?p=43

About the history of the complex:
http://yankee451.com/?p=1765
We don't want to "figure it out". We want you to tell us explicitly what you believe is the truth about 9/11. I'm not holding my breath for an answer though.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:27 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I want to hear about all the thousands of people pretending to go to work every day, saying goodbye to their partners, heading off into NYC, then sitting around in cafes and parks until home-time, then telling their spouses all about what happened during their imaginary working day. They must have been paid a damn fortune to keep quiet for all these years.
But that means he has to speculate, and Truthers hate speculating.
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:29 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The whole building was removed. I'm sure you heard about the event. It would have been even more remarkable if the entire building had collapsed and all the RSJs had stayed in place, hovering in mid air, wouldn't you say?
This is how Dusty's minecraft model of the WTC campus would work. I wonder how she's doing on it?
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:32 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Good point. It was allegedly Colonial Sand and Stone that got the contract for the 10,000,000 sq. feet of concrete. Colonial at the time was owned by the Pope family, the wealthiest Italian immigrants in the history of Italian immigrants. Their trucks were pretty easy to identify, being painted in the colors of the Italian flag, but it is very difficult to find many of them in the images and videos of the construction site. If they were pumping concrete it was hidden from view so like so much else when it comes to the WTC, we're forced to take the words of some of the worlds' shadiest characters that the WTC was the fully completed city within the city they were advertising.



If you read between the lines you can figure it out.

About the architect:
http://yankee451.com/?p=43

About the history of the complex:
http://yankee451.com/?p=1765

The argument here is that if Steve's Google-fu can't find a picture on the internet it doesn't exist.

Seems legit
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:40 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
...you're saying only the finest parts of the concreted turned to dust. All of it.
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Where did I say that?
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Why wouldn't some of that concrete still be intact? You know - big chunks here and fine dust there, eh?
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Where did I say that it wasn't?
Is yankee451 deliberately misunderstanding you to be as annoying as possible or is it just by remarkable coincidence that it happens to look exactly like that's what he's doing?
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Old 29th April 2016, 09:45 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Is yankee451 deliberately misunderstanding you to be as annoying as possible or is it just by remarkable coincidence that it happens to look exactly like that's what he's doing?
I don't think it's that. I think he has to find something, anything, to point to as an anomaly to prove there was some kind of conspiracy. If he can't find any actual evidence, the best he can do is pretend there's some kind of disagreement between the evidence and what we think is the evidence, and if there isn't any he has to invent it.

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Old 29th April 2016, 09:55 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I want to hear about all the thousands of people pretending to go to work every day, saying goodbye to their partners, heading off into NYC, then sitting around in cafes and parks until home-time, then telling their spouses all about what happened during their imaginary working day. They must have been paid a damn fortune to keep quiet for all these years.
The Mall and the PATH station ensured the place would always have the hustle and bustle of a city within the city. From my understanding the PA was not subject to public scrutiny and had a private armed guard stationed at the place, so its not like anyone could just check up on them. The PA is run like a for profit business that has the ability to seize property through eminent domain, can't tax citizens but does charge them for the use of their facilities, they have credit capacity similar to government agencies but only answer to two people on the planet, the governors of New York and New Jersey. Even their history reads like the evolution of organized crime, and all their construction projects were built with mob-controlled labor. Sue me if I take with a grain of salt the claim that they built-out and rented 10 million square feet of expensive, unsafe, depressing office space at a time when the rest of the city was experiencing vacancies not seen since the thirties.
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Old 29th April 2016, 10:11 AM   #154
Jrrarglblarg
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Your entire 911 theory is foundationally dependent on the WTC being empty, then? Do I understand you correctly?
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Old 29th April 2016, 10:19 AM   #155
MikeG
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Your entire 911 theory is foundationally dependent on the WTC being empty, then? Do I understand you correctly?
Presumably "they" had to offer some inducements to 3000 people on the 11th of September 2001 to go sit in an empty shell of a building and await events. Interesting that every single person "they" approached was able to take the money and do the job, because if even one person had said "sorry, my diary is full", they might just have made this public since. Interesting too that the families of the deceased should play along with the subterfuge, in that not one of them has come forward and said "that was the first time he/ she ever went to the WTC".

Either that or a couple of planes crashed into a busy pair of buildings on a normal working day.
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Old 29th April 2016, 11:11 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
From my understanding the PA was not subject to public scrutiny and had a private armed guard stationed at the place, so its not like anyone could just check up on them.
Actually, due to the size of the project the place was wide open. Even as the towers neared completion Philippe Peti put together a small team that infiltrated both towers, climbed to the roof, and laid out a complex series of steel cables that Peti later spent an hour tight-rope walking.

It was not Fort Knox, it wasn't even WalMart level security.


Quote:
The PA is run like a for profit business that has the ability to seize property through eminent domain, can't tax citizens but does charge them for the use of their facilities, they have credit capacity similar to government agencies but only answer to two people on the planet, the governors of New York and New Jersey.
And? There are similar districts in every state of the union. So what?


Quote:
Even their history reads like the evolution of organized crime, and all their construction projects were built with mob-controlled labor.
The list of construction projects NOT made with Mafia-controlled unions in the 1960s and 70s in NYC would be very, very short. Again, point?

Quote:
Sue me if I take with a grain of salt the claim that they built-out and rented 10 million square feet of expensive, unsafe, depressing office space at a time when the rest of the city was experiencing vacancies not seen since the thirties.
When the WTC was in the planning stages in the early 1960s there was a need. By the time it was built and opened in the early 1970s the economic landscape had changed. So you're linking two unrelated issues based on ignorance of history.

More to the point, the NIST hints at design flaws in their reports. Many building codes were changed to allow the towers to be built. Those codes and since been changed after 9-11. You'd know that if you'd actually done any research.
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Old 29th April 2016, 02:14 PM   #157
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It looks like yankee451 is getting too close to the truth. The government is censoring his web site.



I did the redacting in the pic so I guess he was double censored.
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Old 30th April 2016, 01:29 AM   #158
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Who decided they need to build two giant tower blocks designed just to be blown up decades later?
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Old 30th April 2016, 02:24 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Who decided they need to build two giant tower blocks designed just to be blown up decades later?
/Engage truther mode/
I'm not saying anyone did. I'm just speculating.
However, I know someone did, because I believe that 9/11 was an inside job.
However, I'm not going to say who I think did it, or how, because I'm just asking questions.
However, if you say that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, I will mock you for mindlessly supporting the official story, and accuse you of shilling for the government.
However, if you ask me for my counter-evidence for my own view, I will decline, because it would be too dangerous for me to post it: I might get 'disappeared'.
However, I will state repeatedly online that I think 9/11 was an inside job, because the evil they (who I'm not going to name) will never be able to find me.
However, I believe that the conspiracy, which is capable of planning meticulously decades in advance, and has no compunctions about killing any number of people, has already killed a large number of witnesses, and bought or coerced the silence of even more. Just not me.
However, I will repeatedly point to AE911Truth, who are fearlessly campaigning for a new investigation despite these threats and inducements.
However, I will not say who should conduct the investigation, or how, or how impartiality can be assured, given that the vast majority of experts in all the relevant fields cannot be trusted to speak the truth.


I can't do this any more: too scary.
/Exit truther mode/
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Old 30th April 2016, 09:41 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Why would the entire fire department have to lie? Only a few at the top would need to be involved and the rest would just follow orders.
Says no one who has worked in any organization of any size, ever.

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Actually, due to the size of the project the place was wide open. Even as the towers neared completion Philippe Peti put together a small team that infiltrated both towers, climbed to the roof, and laid out a complex series of steel cables that Peti later spent an hour tight-rope walking.
Philippe Peti was in on it. I mean, come on, why did he bring a photographer? Plus, he was French, which is totally suspicious.
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