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Old 30th April 2016, 09:51 AM   #161
ehcks
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Construction fraud happens every day, all the time, especially in New York city.
This isn't "construction fraud." This is, somehow, a claim that the two tallest office buildings in the US had no offices because they had no floors and no one noticed this for thirty years. Not even the tens of thousands of people who worked there during that time.

How do you not see how ridiculous that is?
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Old 30th April 2016, 10:43 AM   #162
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I read at most 20% of this thread, but isn't the following a fair summary:

Yankee shows photos where he spots some steel dangling from some columns.
He identifies these danglers as truss straps.
He claims they are evidence that that tower had entire floors missing.
It is pointed out that the danglers are not, in fact, truss straps.
Yankee, unmoved, still claims the tower had floors missing.

Did I miss anything?

I think I remember this is not the first thread by yankee that starts out with him seeing things that are not what he thinks they are, and he spins fantastically insane nonsense from his mistaken perception. Instead of ending at post #2, all these threads erupt into spamfests.
Interesting.
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Old 30th April 2016, 10:49 AM   #163
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That might not be 100% accurate, Oystein, as there is every chance that some of the dangly things are indeed truss straps, doing exactly what you would expect them to do if the floors they had been attached to had been removed in a catastrophic collapse.
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Old 30th April 2016, 10:54 AM   #164
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okay
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Old 30th April 2016, 12:35 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post

Did I miss anything?

JSanderO can't tell the difference between the World Trade Center and the Brooklyn Bridge. He is also not man enough to admit his error and apologise for the rude remark.


It was worth it for the laugh though.

Last edited by waypastvne; 30th April 2016 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 30th April 2016, 12:49 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Good point. It was allegedly Colonial Sand and Stone that got the contract for the 10,000,000 sq. feet of concrete.
{snip}
Concrete normally isn't quantified in sf. Where did you get that number?
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Old 30th April 2016, 01:29 PM   #167
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Yankee451's avatar is based on a striking photo of the setting sun seen through the towers. If the towers had no floors, you could take photos like that from ground level, looking in through the windows of one floor and out of the windows of a higher floor to the sky beyond. In fact it would be hard to avoid, yet for some reason I've never seen a photo like that.
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Old 30th April 2016, 03:05 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
/Engage truther mode/
I'm not saying anyone did. I'm just speculating.
However, I know someone did, because I believe that 9/11 was an inside job.
However, I'm not going to say who I think did it, or how, because I'm just asking questions.
However, if you say that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, I will mock you for mindlessly supporting the official story, and accuse you of shilling for the government.
However, if you ask me for my counter-evidence for my own view, I will decline, because it would be too dangerous for me to post it: I might get 'disappeared'.
However, I will state repeatedly online that I think 9/11 was an inside job, because the evil they (who I'm not going to name) will never be able to find me.
However, I believe that the conspiracy, which is capable of planning meticulously decades in advance, and has no compunctions about killing any number of people, has already killed a large number of witnesses, and bought or coerced the silence of even more. Just not me.
However, I will repeatedly point to AE911Truth, who are fearlessly campaigning for a new investigation despite these threats and inducements.
However, I will not say who should conduct the investigation, or how, or how impartiality can be assured, given that the vast majority of experts in all the relevant fields cannot be trusted to speak the truth.


I can't do this any more: too scary.
/Exit truther mode/
eeyore.jpg

This post is epic!
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Old 30th April 2016, 05:26 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Philippe Peti was in on it. I mean, come on, why did he bring a photographer? Plus, he was French, which is totally suspicious.
Fact: No high wire performers were in either tower on 911.

Fact: The French are always in on it. Whatever it is, even if it's not their idea, you can find French finger prints. You can't have a great CT with them.

Seriously, every one should see "The Walk":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKSeSX-dzso

It's a charming story, and it's bittersweet to see the Towers again. Plus, if you don't have vertigo you will after watching it.
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Old 1st May 2016, 08:42 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
The building did not have 110 floors... it was 110 stories high.

The granularity of the destroyed concrete would be a direct result of how many collisions the concrete had which would fracture and abrade it to smaller and small chunks and release more and more dust. This is precisely how an industrial stone crusher produces stone dust from large rocks/bolders or concrete! The WTC floor were low strength NO STONE AGGREGATE and were rendered to dust and sand more efficiently that a typical high strength slab use in a road for example. There was little rebar used as well... probably only around openings etc. The 4" or so concrete pour was supported by the 24 ga fluted metal deck. The concrete was either brought up mixed via elevator or mixed on each floor. The span for the concrete was less than 80" or closer to 72" and the design load was reduced from the NYC code use for office floors of 100 PSF to 58 PSF.

All the collapsing towers show the same level of concrete crushing and proportion of dust.
Long story short, how many floor pans, trusses and ibeams can you find piled in a heap where the 110 'stories' crushed each other? Or did they turn to dust too, along with the people, the elevator motors, the toilets, the stainless steel steam kettles, walk-in coolers and just about everything else except for the paper?
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Old 1st May 2016, 08:45 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Very nice.
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Old 1st May 2016, 08:48 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
You should care more since you are the one trying with great effort to convince all of us 9/11 was perpetrated not by terrorists but by some agency within the USA, namely the US government.
No, silly, this is much bigger than just the US Government. Surely the military leaders and critical thinkers from other nations can recognize missile damage when they see it.
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Old 1st May 2016, 08:56 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by swright777 View Post
It looks like yankee451 is getting too close to the truth. The government is censoring his web site.



I did the redacting in the pic so I guess he was double censored.
Few people are as indoctrinated as military people.
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Old 1st May 2016, 08:58 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Fact: No high wire performers were in either tower on 911.

Fact: The French are always in on it. Whatever it is, even if it's not their idea, you can find French finger prints. You can't have a great CT with them.

Seriously, every one should see "The Walk":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKSeSX-dzso

It's a charming story, and it's bittersweet to see the Towers again. Plus, if you don't have vertigo you will after watching it.
Charming is one way to describe it. A farfetched publicity stunt is another.
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Old 1st May 2016, 09:01 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Long story short, how many floor pans, trusses and ibeams can you find piled in a heap where the 110 'stories' crushed each other? Or did they turn to dust too, along with the people, the elevator motors, the toilets, the stainless steel steam kettles, walk-in coolers and just about everything else except for the paper?
Argument from incredulity. There were huge piles of debris that had to be untangled and taken away for months. It's your bald, unsourced statement that the rubble piles contained none of those things. I suspect you think this because you can't find pictures and conclude this means something didn't exist, which is a very egocentric philosophy.
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Old 1st May 2016, 09:04 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
/Engage truther mode/
I'm not saying anyone did. I'm just speculating.
However, I know someone did, because I believe that 9/11 was an inside job.
However, I'm not going to say who I think did it, or how, because I'm just asking questions.
However, if you say that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, I will mock you for mindlessly supporting the official story, and accuse you of shilling for the government.
However, if you ask me for my counter-evidence for my own view, I will decline, because it would be too dangerous for me to post it: I might get 'disappeared'.
However, I will state repeatedly online that I think 9/11 was an inside job, because the evil they (who I'm not going to name) will never be able to find me.
However, I believe that the conspiracy, which is capable of planning meticulously decades in advance, and has no compunctions about killing any number of people, has already killed a large number of witnesses, and bought or coerced the silence of even more. Just not me.
However, I will repeatedly point to AE911Truth, who are fearlessly campaigning for a new investigation despite these threats and inducements.
However, I will not say who should conduct the investigation, or how, or how impartiality can be assured, given that the vast majority of experts in all the relevant fields cannot be trusted to speak the truth.


I can't do this any more: too scary.
/Exit truther mode/
Brilliant!
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Old 1st May 2016, 09:18 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by HotRodDeluxe View Post
Brilliant!
Lol, because all truthers are the same? How typica...no wait. ;-)
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Old 1st May 2016, 10:12 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Charming is one way to describe it. A farfetched publicity stunt is another.
And yet it happened.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 08:43 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by swright777 View Post
It looks like yankee451 is getting too close to the truth. The government is censoring his web site.



I did the redacting in the pic so I guess he was double censored.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...mg&imgid=31633

Reading yankee451 web site delusions could cause damage to the brain... it is blocked as a public service.

An internet stupidity singularity, imploding brains faster than free-fall with truss straps attached to the ears...

What the heck was the OP about - don't answer that...

The missiles did it is a classic insane claim. Overwhelming ignorance is defined by 9/11 truth nuts and idiots in general ignoring the videos of Flight 175's impact and Radar data, claiming no planes = proof of insanity, or willful ignorance.
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Last edited by beachnut; 2nd May 2016 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 09:54 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No, silly, this is much bigger than just the US Government. Surely the military leaders and critical thinkers from other nations can recognize missile damage when they see it.
So this is expanding in to an international conspiracy now?

Everyone is in on it?
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:31 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So this is expanding in to an international conspiracy now?

Everyone is in on it?
Ryan Mackey's "Inflationary Model Of Conspiracy Theories" in action:
Quote:
A Good Theory can be distinguished from a Conspiracy Theory as follows: When repeatedly exposed to scrutiny, the Conspiracy Theory requires more and more people involved, and more and more extraordinary events in order to prevent self-contradiction. A Good Theory, in contrast, remains approximately static in complexity as it is refined.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 09:01 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Did I miss anything?

I think I remember this is not the first thread by yankee that starts out with him seeing things that are not what he thinks they are, and he spins fantastically insane nonsense from his mistaken perception. Instead of ending at post #2, all these threads erupt into spamfests.
Interesting.
For the most part no, unless you are entertained by sheer lunacy of floorless skyscrapers.

No, it's not here and in other places. Kind of ridiculous.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:26 PM   #183
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Far fetched things can't ever happen, especially for the first time ever.

I just remembered, the Naudet brothers who were filming at the WTC on 9/11 were French too, n'est-ce pas?
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Old 3rd May 2016, 02:18 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Only on the lobby ceiling/floor and mechanical room ceiling? There was obviously no concrete poured there because had there been the straps would have been encased therein. See the dilemma?
The one & only "dilemma" here is "a complete amateur making brass, WRONG assertions on a topic on which he is utterly clueless." And, when other, more informed individuals attempt to correct his ignorance, the clueless amateur struts around like the Cock-o-the-Walk, brandishing a 'tude that'd choke a mule.

In other words, there is no "dilemma" whatsoever.
There is only "Truthers SOP".

ALL of those straps WERE encased in concrete.

Your conclusion that they were not, based on their appearance after the collapse, is PRECISELY as valid as your conclusion that there were no floors because ... [whatever clueless reasoning you applied to this gem].

Now, let's see if you can figure out a freshman engineering puzzle:

WHY might they no longer look "encased in concrete" at this point in time??
  1. When you encase one structure inside another, and you want a high "pull out force", how do you accomplish this?
    Answer: Undercuts. Interdigitation. Look at the floor shear studs. What do you notice at the ends of the studs that are encased in the concrete? Expanded diameter heads, the underside of which interlock into the concrete once it sets up, thereby preventing the studs from pulling out of the concrete. As they would if the studs were a straight rod with no head.
  2. When serving their intended purpose, was there any requirement whatsoever, that the straps sustain any high "pull out force"?
    Answer: None whatsoever.
  3. When one pours concrete over smooth steel straps, does the steel & concrete form intermolecular bonds?
    Answer: No.
  4. What impact does the lack of intermolecular bonds have on the shear strength of the concrete to steel interface?
    Answer: It will be very weak & unreliable, again producing very low pull out force.
  5. How does a knowledgeable person describe the deformation characteristics of concrete and very thin steel straps?
    Answer: Concrete, very brittle. Thin steel, very flexible.
  6. What are the definitions of "flexible" & "brittle"?
    Answer: Flexible: "can undergo large deformations without breaking."
    Brittle: "can undergo very little deformations without breaking."
  7. What happens when one "flexes" a composite structure, made of a flexible inner member & a brittle outer casing?
    Answer: The brittle member fractures & than falls away, leaving the thin, flexible member behind. If the adherent bond between the brittle & flexible components are weak, the flexible member will be relatively clean of the brittle component. ESPECIALLY if the flexible member is then subjected to any significant amount of "abrasive scraping".
  8. You are looking at truss straps on the lower floors of the towers. Let's assume they are on the 10th floor. In all cases, at what exact time in the descent of the compacted mass of debris was the concrete around the 10th floor straps destroyed?
    Answer: (simple model) When the BOTTOM of the compacted crush zone, consisting of ~88 floors of compacted debris, impacted the 10th floor.
  9. Was there any subsequent "abrasive scraping" of these straps AFTER they had been torn free of the concrete and the end of the collapse that might have removed remnants of concrete that might have clung to the steel?
    Answer: I'll leave this to your incompetent imagination.
  10. Can you really tell, from the resolution of the pictures that you've posted, that there is NO remnants of concrete on those straps?
    Answer: Hell no.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 05:04 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Far fetched things can't ever happen, especially for the first time ever.

I just remembered, the Naudet brothers who were filming at the WTC on 9/11 were French too, n'est-ce pas?
C'est vrai!

And the Naudet Video is a propaganda film that makes "Triumph of the Will" pale in comparison, so what's your point?

JULES NAUDET'S FIRST PLANE SHOT WAS STAGED:
http://www.frankresearch.info/Naudet...ome%20Page.htm
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Old 3rd May 2016, 05:06 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Playing Games View Post
For the most part no, unless you are entertained by sheer lunacy of floorless skyscrapers.

No, it's not here and in other places. Kind of ridiculous.
Real skeptics might try to find some evidence of the floor systems in the debris field, you know all that steel that allegedly supported the concrete that turned into dust.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 05:20 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Real skeptics might try to find some evidence of the floor systems in the debris field, you know all that steel that allegedly supported the concrete that turned into dust.
You mean the material that fell into the bathtub?
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Old 3rd May 2016, 05:55 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
The one & only "dilemma" here is "a complete amateur making brass, WRONG assertions on a topic on which he is utterly clueless." And, when other, more informed individuals attempt to correct his ignorance, the clueless amateur struts around like the Cock-o-the-Walk, brandishing a 'tude that'd choke a mule.
If my conclusions are wrong then when shown where they are wrong I will correct the record, but that hasn't happened yet. So far I've only seen a very small example of the concrete that was once part of the lobby ceiling whereas most of the images indicate there WAS zero concrete. So which is it? There should be evidence of concrete all over those walls.

Originally Posted by tfk View Post
In other words, there is no "dilemma" whatsoever.
There is only "Truthers SOP".
I don't get along with most truthers either but to assume "we" are all alike is a common mistake made by most of the official story faithful, it could even be described as a standard operating procedure.

Originally Posted by tfk View Post
ALL of those straps WERE encased in concrete.
Wait, what? WaypastVNE, what say you?

Originally Posted by tfk View Post

Your conclusion that they were not, based on their appearance after the collapse, is PRECISELY as valid as your conclusion that there were no floors because ... [whatever clueless reasoning you applied to this gem].
I think the point that you're missing is that the truss straps were pretty flimsy compared to the trusses they were attached to. I assume you have never demolished concrete else you would see how ludicrous it is to assume the straps would be left hanging after being sandwiched between reinforcing mesh and the floor decks before being encased in concrete.


Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Now, let's see if you can figure out a freshman engineering puzzle:
Science lesson!


Originally Posted by tfk View Post
WHY might they no longer look "encased in concrete" at this point in time??
  1. When you encase one structure inside another, and you want a high "pull out force", how do you accomplish this?
    Answer: Undercuts. Interdigitation. Look at the floor shear studs. What do you notice at the ends of the studs that are encased in the concrete? Expanded diameter heads, the underside of which interlock into the concrete once it sets up, thereby preventing the studs from pulling out of the concrete. As they would if the studs were a straight rod with no head.
  1. Straps encased in concrete while sandwiched between the floor deck and steel mesh just “pulled” out whereas the mesh and decks, and steel trusses they were attached to are nowhere to be seen, check. Can you please provide a photograph of the expanded diameter heads you’re referring to? Can you point to any other floors in the debris pile that had this debris - you'd think that if they were present for the lobby and first mechanical floor they would be present on the floors above too, especially considering in a progressive collapse the bottom floors would have sustained the most damage from the floors above. You'd also think that there would be some evidence of the steel decks, trusses and ibeams that crushed the bottom floors. But that's crazy talk.

    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  2. When serving their intended purpose, was there any requirement whatsoever, that the straps sustain any high "pull out force"?
    Answer: None whatsoever.
And yet none of those strap ends were pulled out of the wall, even though they were NOT encased in concrete.


Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • When one pours concrete over smooth steel straps, does the steel & concrete form intermolecular bonds?
    Answer: No.
  • Someone needs needs to expand their horizons by demolishing some concrete.

    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • What impact does the lack of intermolecular bonds have on the shear strength of the concrete to steel interface?
    Answer: It will be very weak & unreliable, again producing very low pull out force.
  • If it applies to the wimpy straps that were sandwiched between steel mesh and the corrugated floor decks, then it applies to the trusses they were attached to as well as the floor decks and the mesh. Can you point to those parts of the floor systems please?


    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • How does a knowledgeable person describe the deformation characteristics of concrete and very thin steel straps?
    Answer: Concrete, very brittle. Thin steel, very flexible.
  • So the straps just peeled away from the concrete. Wow, you make it sound so simple. I'm surprised I didn't think of this.


    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • What are the definitions of "flexible" & "brittle"?
    Answer: Flexible: "can undergo large deformations without breaking."
    Brittle: "can undergo very little deformations without breaking."
  • You mean the way the concrete didn't shatter when it was struck by the flexible wall panel in front of St. Nicholas church? Wait, that's backwards isn't it?

    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • What happens when one "flexes" a composite structure, made of a flexible inner member & a brittle outer casing?
    Answer: The brittle member fractures & than falls away, leaving the thin, flexible member behind. If the adherent bond between the brittle & flexible components are weak, the flexible member will be relatively clean of the brittle component. ESPECIALLY if the flexible member is then subjected to any significant amount of "abrasive scraping".
  • So every inch of the concrete that encased those straps was impacted and crushed then? Not one piece that wasn't struck and pulverized? Fantastic!


    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • You are looking at truss straps on the lower floors of the towers. Let's assume they are on the 10th floor. In all cases, at what exact time in the descent of the compacted mass of debris was the concrete around the 10th floor straps destroyed?
    Answer: (simple model) When the BOTTOM of the compacted crush zone, consisting of ~88 floors of compacted debris, impacted the 10th floor.
  • No need to assume. Can you point out the tenth floor truss straps please?

    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • Was there any subsequent "abrasive scraping" of these straps AFTER they had been torn free of the concrete and the end of the collapse that might have removed remnants of concrete that might have clung to the steel?
    Answer: I'll leave this to your incompetent imagination.
  • Apparently I don't share the imagination needed to explain how every inch of concrete that encased those straps were pulverized but I base that on my experience with pouring and demolishing concrete. Your explanation is laughable, but kudos on the bravado.


    Originally Posted by tfk View Post
  • Can you really tell, from the resolution of the pictures that you've posted, that there is NO remnants of concrete on those straps?
    Answer: Hell no.
  • Yep - anyone can. No concrete, no trusses - but if you look you can see where truss dampers were once installed.

    Last edited by yankee451; 3rd May 2016 at 06:23 PM.
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    Old 3rd May 2016, 06:02 PM   #189
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    Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
    You mean the material that fell into the bathtub?
    Sure, show me the images of the floors that crushed the lobby floors for example - show me the image of whatever it was that crushed the only image of concrete floor I have seen in this thread. If it all went into the sub-levels there should be plenty of awe inspiring photos to link to.
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    Old 3rd May 2016, 07:21 PM   #190
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    Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
    Real skeptics might try to find some evidence of the floor systems in the debris field, you know all that steel that allegedly supported the concrete that turned into dust.
    Did you not see the pictures of the floor system after collapse posted earlier in this thread? It's all there, but you refute it. Is that you are in your own little world of denial? How do fifty thousand people function in buildings without floors?
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    Old 3rd May 2016, 08:08 PM   #191
    yankee451
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    Originally Posted by Playing Games View Post
    Did you not see the pictures of the floor system after collapse posted earlier in this thread? It's all there, but you refute it. Is that you are in your own little world of denial? How do fifty thousand people function in buildings without floors?
    I must have missed it - unless you're referring to the pile next to the bathtub, to which I have already replied. Can you link to the images please? Must be quite a few photos because that's a lot of floors, but I miss things all the time. Which images are you referring to?

    Why do you assume 50,000 people worked there?
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    Old 3rd May 2016, 08:39 PM   #192
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    Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
    I must have missed it - unless you're referring to the pile next to the bathtub, to which I have already replied. Can you link to the images please? Must be quite a few photos because that's a lot of floors, but I miss things all the time. Which images are you referring to?

    Why do you assume 50,000 people worked there?
    Why do you assume they didn't?

    Have you talked to anyone who worked there? How have you talked to their families, their employers? If not, why not? Stop being so lazy, get to work, its been 15 years of utter failure and time is ticking away. Chop Chop!
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    Old 3rd May 2016, 08:55 PM   #193
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    Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post

    WaypastVNE, what say you?
    The diagonal braces on floors 7 & 8 were defiantly below the floor pans and not imbedded in concrete. The red arrows point to the diagonal braces in question (they were angle not flat bar, since they were not imbedded in concrete they needed to take compression as well as tension) The green arrows point to where the floor pans were. You can see one of the floor pan's corrugations moulded into the concrete. (left green arrow)

    Yankee the reason floor 7 has concrete ruminants and no other floors do, is because the spandrel plates on this floor were on the out side of the columns, not the inside. So the concrete was poured in between the columns instead of stoping at the spandrel plate.




    In this photo the red arrows point to where the other end of the diagonal straps attach. Blue arrow points to the bracket where the damper attaches.


    The green arrow points out that the diagonal straps on the truss floors had 4 shear studs on them near the wall. You will see that the strap on the wall panel next to the church still has the shear studs attached to the straps if you look closely.




    So Yankee, now that every thing that you said was fake about wall panel has been proven wrong, have you come up with anything new to prove it's counterfeit ?

    Last edited by waypastvne; 3rd May 2016 at 08:57 PM.
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    Old 3rd May 2016, 11:39 PM   #194
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    Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
    .........(they were angle not flat bar, since they were not imbedded in concrete they needed to take compression as well as tension)......
    Another good post, and if a 4 year old couldn't understand the role of the bracing by this stage I'd be most surprised. However, I'd take issue with you on this one little thing. There is no way that such a thin member is designed to take any compression. I'd suggest that the reason it was angle rather than flat bar was to prevent sagging. The floor pan itself would take any compressive forces, so I can't imagine for a second how any such forces could be designed for in these straps.
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    Old 4th May 2016, 07:33 AM   #195
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    Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
    Why do you assume they didn't?

    Have you talked to anyone who worked there? How have you talked to their families, their employers? If not, why not? Stop being so lazy, get to work, its been 15 years of utter failure and time is ticking away. Chop Chop!
    It has already been a success. More and more people are snapping out of it - what's your excuse?
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    Old 4th May 2016, 07:52 AM   #196
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    Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
    The diagonal braces on floors 7 & 8 were defiantly below the floor pans and not imbedded in concrete. The red arrows point to the diagonal braces in question (they were angle not flat bar, since they were not imbedded in concrete they needed to take compression as well as tension) The green arrows point to where the floor pans were. You can see one of the floor pan's corrugations moulded into the concrete. (left green arrow)
    Excellent! So the ceiling to the lobby was where the truss straps were attached, check - but again their presence indicates the ceiling was dismantled as does the absence of ibeams in the debris.

    Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
    Yankee the reason floor 7 has concrete ruminants and no other floors do, is because the spandrel plates on this floor were on the out side of the columns, not the inside. So the concrete was poured in between the columns instead of stoping at the spandrel plate.

    http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/a...57.25%20pm.jpg

    Again, this is evidence of what was missing on the other floors, as well as in the debris. What is the original source for that image? Are there more like that?

    Originally Posted by waypastvne View Post
    In this photo the red arrows point to where the other end of the diagonal straps attach. Blue arrow points to the bracket where the damper attaches.


    The green arrow points out that the diagonal straps on the truss floors had 4 shear studs on them near the wall. You will see that the strap on the wall panel next to the church still has the shear studs attached to the straps if you look closely.

    http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/a...46.30%20pm.jpg

    So Yankee, now that every thing that you said was fake about wall panel has been proven wrong, have you come up with anything new to prove it's counterfeit ?
    I have already agreed that I was mistaken about the damper connections and the width of the spandrel, so yes my reasons for suspecting it to be counterfeit were wrong. You still think that the jet debris cut through a whole steel building and impacted just that one wall panel so hard that it snapped all the connections, top, bottom and sides, as well as the truss connections but didn't strike it hard enough to bend the wall panel as it struck, but still struck it so hard that it flew the panel hundreds of horizontal feet while it fell a thousand feet. It then settled to the ground without damaging the concrete it landed on but still struck so hard that it folded all the half-inch steel of the spandrels flat against the side.

    My mistakes on the counterfeit don't change the matter. They either built it to specs or they had a few extra, or for all we know this was the panel they dropped from a helicopter into the river. But this is a conversation best left for another thread.

    Last edited by yankee451; 4th May 2016 at 08:05 AM.
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    Old 4th May 2016, 07:53 AM   #197
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    Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
    It has already been a success.

    Nearest it came to success was 2007/8.

    Since then? Slow slide towards oblivion.
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    Old 4th May 2016, 07:54 AM   #198
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    Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
    It has already been a success. More and more people are snapping out of it - what's your excuse?
    Only in your dreams.
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    Old 4th May 2016, 08:03 AM   #199
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    Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
    ......this was the panel they dropped from a helicopter into the river. But this is a conversation best left for another threada darkened room, a couch, and clinical psychologist.
    FTFY.
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    Old 4th May 2016, 08:10 AM   #200
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    Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
    Only in your dreams.
    Depends on what the goal was, doesn't it? It depends on what the conditions of success are. If the goal is to wake up our slumbering neighbors, that is well underway and gaining momentum. My goal has already been reached, the rest is just gravy.
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