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Old 3rd May 2016, 02:39 PM   #41
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You do realize that the picture shows damage that NIST says was not the cause of the collapse, right?

Did you forget that WTC2 fell on the Marriott and did not cause a complete collapse? I guess you want to ignore those pictures.
LOL
It also shows it got struck by a 110 story building. Something you denied.

That giant gouge in the middle of the building wasn't there when the sun rose that morning.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 03:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You do realize that the picture shows damage that NIST says was not the cause of the collapse, right?
This is not true. The NIST states that loss of fire protection from the collapse of the towers was a contributing factor.

Do you think that picture does not show damage to the fire protection system?
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Old 3rd May 2016, 06:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
This is not true. The NIST states that loss of fire protection from the collapse of the towers was a contributing factor.

Do you think that picture does not show damage to the fire protection system?
If by "fire protection" you mean the insulation sprayed on the columns & beams, I do not believe that this is true. The impact, while causing the violent shaking that caused the stairs to collapse under Barry Jennings & (the lawyer), NISt did not estimate any SFRM loss in the northeast corner.

Originally Posted by NCSTAR1A
For instance, damage to the sprayed fire resistive material (SFRM) was limited to the immediate vicinity of the WTC 1 debris impact.
(pg 16)
None of their analyses depended upon the loss of SFRM, either.

However, this impact DID completely incapacitate one aspect of the fire protection: it completely drained the water tanks that fed the sprinkler systems. Those water lines do not have check valves to prevent their being drained by broken pipes.

The rooftop water tanks only fed the upper 27 stories or so, so this would not have affected the 5th thru 13th floor, where the lower fires were. However, the city water mains, which fed these lower floors' sprinklers, had been crushed by the collapse of the towers, so no water was available to douse the fires on these lower floors.

Originally Posted by NCSTAR1A
(pg. xxxvi)
Had a water supply for the automatic sprinkler system been available and had the sprinkler system operated as designed, it is likely that fires in WTC 7 would have been controlled and the collapse prevented.

(pg. xxxvii)
The collapse of WTC 7 could not have been prevented without controlling the fires before most of the combustible building contents were consumed. There were two sources of water (gravity fed overhead tanks and the city water main) for the standpipe and automatic sprinkler systems serving Floor 21 and above, and some of the early fires on those upper floors might have actually been controlled in this manner. However, consistent with the NYCBC, both the primary and back-up source of water for the sprinkler system in the lower 20 floors of WTC 7 was the city water main. Since the collapses of the WTC towers had damaged the water main, there was no secondary supply of water available (such as from the gravity-fed overhead tanks that supplied water to Floor 21 and above) to control those fires that eventually led to the building collapse.
The collapse started those fires.

The collapse destroyed the water supply to the sprinklers that, to a high probability, would have put out those small fires before they grew to large ones.

Without the collapse doing these two things, WTC7 would still be standing.

But, in FF's imagination, the damage shown in those photos is unrelated to the collapse of WTC7...
... because "the damage shown was not the cause of the collapse."

Last edited by tfk; 3rd May 2016 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 06:54 PM   #44
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Well, bad news, guys.

I just got a call from the AIA. After careful consideration, they have turned down my request. They were very nice about it. But my proposal didn't meet with their goals.

Or some such.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 07:12 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Well, bad news, guys.

I just got a call from the AIA. After careful consideration, they have turned down my request. They were very nice about it. But my proposal didn't meet with their goals.

Or some such.
How does Gage's fantasy of CD meet with their goals? With Gage's fantasy booth, how does reality not meet their goals.
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Old 4th May 2016, 06:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood
Suggestion for visuals:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1&d=1462226257
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You do realize that the picture shows damage that NIST says was not the cause of the collapse, right?
Of course not! But you're tossing out red herring, and ignoring the context of my post. You're good as that.

That photo, and the others, directly refute AE911T's claim that:

Quote:
in spite of the fact that WTC 7 had only few, small, and scattered fires and modest structural damage, the NYC Office of Emergency Management and the New York Fire Department predicted the collapse of WTC 7 with extraordinary confidence and precision, deciding to establish a safety zone around WTC 7 early in the afternoon and waiting several hours in anticipation of the building’s collapse;
Full Truthtard there, accusing FDNY of being part of the Vast Conspiracy! One more reason why AE911T will fail worse this year than they did last year.

BTW, while the fires in the N.E. corner around column 79 were the direct cause of WTC 7's collapse, that doesn't necessarily mean that damage and fires elsewhere couldn't have brought it down later. It's just that the N.E. fires worked first. (See also DeMentri video screencap of fires in N.E. corner)

Think of an autopsy on a gunshot victim. The medical examiner observes that the victim had two gunshots through the lungs, and a third which severed the aorta. He concludes that the aorta gunshot was the cause of death. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the lung shots couldn't have accomplished the same later.

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Did you forget that WTC2 fell on the Marriott and did not cause a complete collapse? I guess you want to ignore those pictures.
More red herring there. (Maybe we need a new smilie for "red herring"?)

AE911T's resolution doesn't deal with WTC 3, which BTW was struck by BOTH WTC 1 and WTC 2, but didn't burn. If you wish to debate whether or not WTC 3 was completely crushed, please start a new thread. It would help if you explain why you think it's significant.

But I'll give you a better one: 90 West St. was set ablaze by WTC 2, burned for days thereafter, and did NOT collapse. Any competent structural engineer would be happy to explain to you why. You should try asking one. You can learn much by consulting people more knowledgeable than you, instead of copping an attitude. While you're at it, ask him to explain "scaling".

Last edited by Redwood; 4th May 2016 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 4th May 2016, 08:03 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Well, bad news, guys.

I just got a call from the AIA. After careful consideration, they have turned down my request. They were very nice about it. But my proposal didn't meet with their goals.

Or some such.
Could you not make a case that allowing AE911T to have a booth opens The American Institute of Architects to a charge of supporting Truther nonsense?

How many of their members want to be associated the Truthers? There is enough real information available.
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Old 4th May 2016, 08:11 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
How does Gage's fantasy of CD meet with their goals? With Gage's fantasy booth, how does reality not meet their goals.
They want too limit Gage's exposure, with out controversy Gage will probably receive no media coverage.
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Old 4th May 2016, 08:45 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
They want too limit Gage's exposure, with out controversy Gage will probably receive no media coverage.


Precisely.

May not eliminate media coverage BUT without controversy Gage will get less coverage.

Less than he could have claimed if he had been barred.

Less than if there is controversy from opposition.

Last edited by ozeco41; 4th May 2016 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 4th May 2016, 09:34 PM   #50
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While I was hoping it'd get approved (for guerrilla theater applications), I'm not surprised they wouldn't give you the booth next door; have you asked for another booth, one not directly confronting AE911T? It'd seem that having granted the snake oil salesman a booth to peddle political theories, they should be willing to grant you another one to present counter-arguments... but that the idea of counter-selling right next to the attention whore is what they're against because it will just create confrontation. That'd be my take on it if this was my conference. You wouldn't assign space for competing products just adjacent to each other, while you might put them in the same general area for whatever those products are.

Are they going to have the same dog-and-pony show as last time, with presenting AIA member-supporters? At what point does the AIA pass rules to stop this sort of trolling? Are we going to see another rewritten resolution every year? (Alternate question: Is this the same channel they went through last time or a different channel?) Frankly, I'd worry less about their booth than what sort of podium/dais time they get; is there going to be another fracking debate?
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Old 5th May 2016, 03:46 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Well, bad news, guys.

I just got a call from the AIA. After careful consideration, they have turned down my request. They were very nice about it. But my proposal didn't meet with their goals.

Or some such.
Ouch!
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Old 5th May 2016, 03:55 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Ouch!
What did you say when you realized the Basile study made no progress in 2014? And what did you say when you realized the Basile study made no progress in 2015? And what did you say when you realized the Basile study would not be making any progress in 2016? Or 2017? Or ever?
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Old 5th May 2016, 03:58 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
What did you say when you realized the Basile study made no progress in 2014? And what did you say when you realized the Basile study made no progress in 2015? And what did you say when you realized the Basile study would not be making any progress in 2016? Or 2017? Or ever?

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Old 5th May 2016, 04:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
What did you say when you realized the Basile study made no progress in 2014? And what did you say when you realized the Basile study made no progress in 2015? And what did you say when you realized the Basile study would not be making any progress in 2016? Or 2017? Or ever?


I wonder what he said when he realized Johnathan Cole was a fraud along with Harrit- Jones, Basile,Gage, and the rest?
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Old 5th May 2016, 05:23 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Ouch!
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/ - one of the dumbest web sites supporting lies of 9/11 truth and mocking the murder of thousands. Is Gage one of your prophets of lies for your faith based web site of woo?

Ouch is right. Web sites like http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/ are great examples of anti-science woo, based on overwhelming ignorance, and paranoia.

Gage spread lies and fools a fringe few.

Ziggi, where do you guys keep your evidence? Did your evidence get lost? Did the dog eat it?
Do the lies of Gage need to be debunked? Only people like you who can't do science fall for the lies of Gage and 9/11 truth.
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Last edited by beachnut; 5th May 2016 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 5th May 2016, 05:34 AM   #56
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Can't you ask for a booth elsewhere?
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Old 5th May 2016, 05:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/ - one of the dumbest web sites supporting lies of 9/11 truth and mocking the murder of thousands. Is Gage one of your prophets of lies for your faith based web site of woo?

Ouch is right. Web sites like http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/ are great examples of anti-science woo, based on overwhelming ignorance, and paranoia.

Gage spread lies and fools a fringe few.

Ziggi, where do you guys keep your evidence? Did your evidence get lost? Did the dog eat it?
Do the lies of Gage need to be debunked? Only people like you who can't do science fall for the lies of Gage and 9/11 truth.
You know Beechnut, he dare not question his gods.
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Old 5th May 2016, 06:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Ouch!
Hey Ziggi, can you name one Truth movement researcher who hasn't shown gross intellectual dishonesty?

So far the only possible one is Farrier.

You can reply on my thread about it, or here if you like, or not at all whatever you want.
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Old 5th May 2016, 06:42 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Well, bad news, guys.

I just got a call from the AIA. After careful consideration, they have turned down my request. They were very nice about it. But my proposal didn't meet with their goals standards.

Or some such.
The AIA must have visited this forum and quickly realized how incredible was the notion that this would be a non confrontational space .. oh, and it must be close to AE911T.

It is easy to find anti-AE911T vitriol in this forum.

The thing that the AIA do not wish/intend to risk is a confrontation between AE911T and their opponents.

From previous history at this AIA event, they have established trust that AE911T will behave in a professional manner.
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Old 5th May 2016, 07:08 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post

It is easy to find anti-AE911T vitriol in this forum.
That's because they are established morons. And at the top is a snake oil salesman, moron.

Quote:
The thing that the AIA do not wish/intend to risk is a confrontation between AE911T and their opponents.

From previous history at this AIA event, they have established trust that AE911T will behave in a professional manner.
Everybody not in AE911 are by definition their opponents.
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Old 5th May 2016, 07:41 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfk

...I just got a call from the AIA. After careful consideration, they have turned down my request..
Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
The AIA must have visited this forum...
Oh gosh Criteria, you donīt mean that someone# contacted the AIA to notify them of the mentality of tfk and his forum buddies? Do you think this is funny you naughty person?
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Old 5th May 2016, 07:48 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Oh gosh Criteria, you donīt mean that someone# contacted the AIA to notify them of the mentality of tfk and his forum buddies? Do you think this is funny you naughty person?
I'm not saying.
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Old 5th May 2016, 07:53 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
The AIA must have visited this forum and quickly realized how incredible was the notion that this would be a non confrontational space .. oh, and it must be close to AE911T.

It is easy to find anti-AE911T vitriol in this forum.

The thing that the AIA do not wish/intend to risk is a confrontation between AE911T and their opponents.

From previous history at this AIA event, they have established trust that AE911T will behave in a professional manner.
Or maybe they thought the lies of the Truther movement were so obvious, it needed no counter argument, with any life form more intellectually advanced than pond scum.
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Old 5th May 2016, 08:05 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Or maybe they thought the lies of the Truther movement were so obvious, it needed no counter argument, with any life form more intellectually advanced than pond scum.
Possibly they thought that.

Or the AIA expects "intellectually advanced" people to perform better in debate than calling their opponent "pond scum".
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Old 5th May 2016, 08:44 AM   #65
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Given their stance on Gage, the AIA will just want him to keep to his little truth booth and not disrupt the convention.

As mentioned above, a confrontation between angry architect(s) and fringe cultists, would only give said cultists the oxygen of publicity.
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Old 5th May 2016, 09:09 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Well, bad news, guys.

I just got a call from the AIA. After careful consideration, they have turned down my request. They were very nice about it. But my proposal didn't meet with their goals.

Or some such.
What "AIA goals" are being met by Gage that they allowed him I wonder?
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Old 5th May 2016, 09:12 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
The thing that the AIA do not wish/intend to risk is a confrontation between AE911T and their opponents.
What's stopping "opponents" from walking up to AE911T's booth and being "confrontational"?
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Old 5th May 2016, 09:16 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Possibly they thought that.

Or the AIA expects "intellectually advanced" people to perform better in debate than calling their opponent "pond scum".
You think Gage and his crew are "intellectually advanced"?

That's adorable.
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Old 5th May 2016, 09:17 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
The AIA must have visited this forum
Let's hope they have, the more lurkers the better
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Old 5th May 2016, 09:29 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Nope. I am 100 percent certain that your post is a colossal troll.
And you'd be wrong.

Whatsa matta, don't believe in giving equal time?
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Old 5th May 2016, 09:31 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
What "AIA goals" are being met by Gage that they allowed him I wonder?
He pays his member dues.........
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Old 5th May 2016, 11:38 AM   #72
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14 years, no evidence for Gage's claims -

Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
... The thing that the AIA do not wish/intend to risk is a confrontation between AE911T and their opponents.

From previous history at this AIA event, they have established trust that AE911T will behave in a professional manner.
AE911T, dumbed down lies which fool a fringe few who can't think for themselves. AE911T membership is a list of people who have no clue what they signed, or idiots who can't do research.

Not you, not Ziggi, not Gage, not Gage's failed petition signers can present evidence for the fantasy of CD. You never will, Gage never will.

Gage is taking in over 500k/yr, and he travels the world. AE911T's only product is paying for Gage's food, travel, and suits - plus the latest equipment... a scam, or Gage believes the dumbed down fantasy he selectively plagraized from 9/11 truth nuts. Pied Piper of woo, with no evidence.

It takes ignornace to believe in Gage's lies. 9/11 truth is the anti-intellectual movement of lies - where is your overwhelming evidence? Did Gage lie, where is it, the evidence?

If you can't figure out Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, how can you have any credibility to defend the liar Gage? You don't know what evidence is, making it impossible to realize Gage has no evidence for his claims.

Gage spreads the lie of CD for years, he has less than 0.1 percent of all engineers to sign a fake petition. That is failure.


Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Oh gosh ...?
All the evidence to support Gage's claims in one simple post. Oh gosh, the dog ate it.

Only the great movements based on overwhelming evidence can express that evidence so efficiently.

9/11 truth's overwhelming evidence =
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Old 5th May 2016, 12:10 PM   #73
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I am pretty sure that the AIA do not want to have an annual vote on the WTC. I think they need a resolution to stop ae911truth disrupting the convention and creating these stupid resolutions.

How about:

The AIA will not consider any further resolutions about the historic events at the World Trade Centre on 9.11.2001. ... you could add without support from 300 members, which would exclude ae911truth forever.

or

The AIA hereby confirm that they have carefully reviewed the events on 9.11.2001 and can confirm that the collapse of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 were solely a result of the plane impacts, and subsequent fires. There is no evidence whatsoever of a controlled demolition.

or... what other suggestions could we make for resolutions ?
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Old 5th May 2016, 02:23 PM   #74
tfk
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AIA update.

When the person dealing with my request told me that they were turning me down, she told me that a representative from AIA was willing to give me a call & explain. At the time of the phone call, I said that I'd like to get that response, but did not emphasize it in the context of the conversation.

I've just sent her a request that this person do give me a call. I've gathered up the questions asked here. If there are any more questions, please ask them quickly.

I will ask him any questions that get posted before he/she calls me.
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Old 5th May 2016, 02:31 PM   #75
Redwood
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Originally Posted by Richard the G View Post
I am pretty sure that the AIA do not want to have an annual vote on the WTC. I think they need a resolution to stop ae911truth disrupting the convention and creating these stupid resolutions.

How about:

The AIA will not consider any further resolutions about the historic events at the World Trade Centre on 9.11.2001. ... you could add without support from 300 members, which would exclude ae911truth forever.

or

The AIA hereby confirm that they have carefully reviewed the events on 9.11.2001 and can confirm that the collapse of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 were solely a result of the plane impacts, and subsequent fires. There is no evidence whatsoever of a controlled demolition.

or... what other suggestions could we make for resolutions ?
I wouldn't get too worked up about it. The convention probably spends as much time on Gage's resolution as it does on resolutions like this:

Quote:
Resolution 16-5
Title: Appreciation to Members, Fifty Years
Sponsor: AIA Board of Directors
Intent: To acknowledge the dedication, benevolence, and volunteer spirit of those members of the American Institute of Architects who have maintained membership for 50 years or more.
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Old 5th May 2016, 02:39 PM   #76
Richard the G
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ah yes you are correct, but it would be a simple way of avoiding another line of fund raising for ae911truth and therefore it would be quite rewarding

And Richard Gage is very proud of his AIA membership so it would be good that he was very proud of an organization who had said there was no evidence of a controlled demolition. So even more rewarding.!
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Old 5th May 2016, 02:52 PM   #77
ProBonoShill
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Possibly they thought that.

Or the AIA expects "intellectually advanced" people to perform better in debate than calling their opponent "pond scum".
I'm sure they expect people not to dodge posts and run away from debates like a coward too.
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Old 5th May 2016, 03:33 PM   #78
tfk
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Originally Posted by Ziggi
Oh gosh Criteria, you donīt mean that someone# contacted the AIA to notify them of the mentality of tfk and his forum buddies?
Ziggi, please inform me about "the mentality of tfk".

Criteria, you are invited to do the same.

Since "my forum buddies", to whomever that is supposed to refer, were not part of the picture, their "mentality" is irrelevant.

I explicitly stated that I was planning to invite experienced structural engineers from the Philadelphia area. Do you have some problem with their "mentality".

Perhaps you have a problem with the fact that knowledge & experience in the pertinent field (structural engineering) allows one to see thru the rampant, trivial errors of AE911T.

Last edited by tfk; 5th May 2016 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 5th May 2016, 04:19 PM   #79
pgimeno
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
AIA update.

When the person dealing with my request told me that they were turning me down, she told me that a representative from AIA was willing to give me a call & explain. At the time of the phone call, I said that I'd like to get that response, but did not emphasize it in the context of the conversation.

I've just sent her a request that this person do give me a call. I've gathered up the questions asked here. If there are any more questions, please ask them quickly.

I will ask him any questions that get posted before he/she calls me.
An obvious question is why deny it to you and not to them. But I expect that to be covered by the explanation.
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Old 5th May 2016, 04:30 PM   #80
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
An obvious question is why deny it to you and not to them. But I expect that to be covered by the explanation.
They are promoting a resolution by members he is not, the By laws as I understand them forbid them to refuse the AE/911 idiots.
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