|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
19th June 2017, 03:04 AM | #361 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 16,041
|
|
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
|
19th June 2017, 08:31 AM | #362 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
I don't know if you're just playing devil's advocate here, or if you've actually lost the plot completely.
He has a well-thought out point rather than a jumbled set of poorly formed rallying cries without substance... and so he has an "unfair" rhetorical advantage? The student's incoherent and reactionary babble without substance "can't be clarified" while retaining the nearly random and meritless "diversity of views" that they wish to represent? As for the rest - the students clearly don't want a fruitful dialogue. They've been pretty clear that they don't want to listen, don't want to discuss. They want to demand whatever assuages their egos with no consideration of actual impact... and they've made it quite clear that they do NOT want to allow others to have a say. Did you watch the video? Honestly, your post reads almost as if you're intending satire. |
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
19th June 2017, 08:33 AM | #363 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
Their point of view seems to be that other people don't get a say, that opposition to whatever poorly thought out agenda they have is justification for violence and getting a well-respected teacher fired. Why on earth should he be burdened with trying to make sense of what is clearly senseless?
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
19th June 2017, 08:35 AM | #364 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
Might makes right? Threat of violence is sufficient to redefine truth?
Your statement here borders on asinine. They weren't right, they didn't deserve concessions. They bullied the entire campus, put people's lives at risk, and carried on like tyrants until they got their way. If you think that the fact of them getting their way somehow implies that they were right to begin with... Well, let me direct you back to formal duels where the winner is declared innocent by the grace of god. Let me point you to mobsters who succeed in intimidating shop-owners into paying protection fees. Seriously, you might want to reconsider the ethics of your position here. |
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
19th June 2017, 08:48 AM | #365 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
19th June 2017, 08:51 AM | #366 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
They shouted down anyone who they *thought* was opposing them, without even basic consideration. Now, because they aren't getting their way based on yelling and crying that "it's not fair"... they've decided that the time for discussion is past? They never even let that time begin!
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
19th June 2017, 08:52 AM | #367 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
19th June 2017, 08:53 AM | #368 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
19th June 2017, 06:12 PM | #369 |
Creativity Murderer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In 2.5 million spinning tons of metal, above Epsilion Eridani III
Posts: 7,958
|
No. Certain areas sure are, but if you think that: go live in Eastern Washington, or even rural Western Washington. Evergreen is a bit of aberrant, even for standard Washington progressivism. (Which you clearly aren't a fan of, nor a member of, so..)
Yeeeah, I mean, it's not a bad editorial, but anyone local to this region could tell you that the Times skews fairly conservative for the region. Which I enjoy, since Seattle could use a conservative viewpoint, but it means that the Times really isn't going to influence a lot of people's opinion. It offers a reasonbly interesting view of the world. Not one I submit to, because I don't really have suffficient patience for sociological sciences besides to learn how the basics work... So, this is was an interesting set of statements. On one hand, no, the professors don't work for the students at all. On the other hand, this resonates in that yes, a professor is expected to be able to take the role of coach and say 'these are the arguments for either side.'. I don't think it's fair to expect him to argue against his own beliefs, but yes, it is an advantage he has that the students don't have. .. Yeah, you have clearly never lived in King or Pierce Counties, have you? This pot has been boiling for a while, and there actually has been plenty of institutionalized racism. There's a reason these demands are persistent. (I am definitly leaving out the 'are these demands justified? bit', as finding them from an unbiased site right now is surprisingly difficult. :v But here, a local paper does make the case. http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/l...153694734.html And it cites this article, by the college paper: http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/20...pus-continues/ |
__________________
Don't mind me. |
|
19th June 2017, 08:54 PM | #370 |
Creativity Murderer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In 2.5 million spinning tons of metal, above Epsilion Eridani III
Posts: 7,958
|
Ah-ha, found the article I meant to find:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/l...154524694.html Interesting snippet:
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
Don't mind me. |
|
19th June 2017, 09:02 PM | #371 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
|
|
19th June 2017, 09:38 PM | #372 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,108
|
I found this article to be quite disappointing. The author invites us, multiple times, to make sure we get the facts right before we draw conclusions. Fair advice, but he doesn't take the opportunity to clear up any common misconceptions. In fact, the most specific thing he says is that the focus on Weinstein has been overblown, thus undercutting the protesters' narrative that he is a racist professor that needs to be fired.
And there was one part that I found rather ironic:
Quote:
Quote:
|
19th June 2017, 09:40 PM | #373 |
Creativity Murderer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In 2.5 million spinning tons of metal, above Epsilion Eridani III
Posts: 7,958
|
Written by someone anonymous.
Yeah, uh. Welcome to the rabbit hole. I think his point is that the protestors are probably wrong, since they aren't just protesting that. |
__________________
Don't mind me. |
|
20th June 2017, 08:36 AM | #374 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
Pretty much anywhere outside of Seattle-Metro swings pretty red. But even so, they're some very red special snowflakes nonetheless WA has the highest proportion I've experienced of people who have never left their state yet still believe WA is the very bestest state possible. And while it's certainly more intensified in urban areas, the solid belief that WA is special, Washingtonians are special (and better!), and that each person's special and unique beliefs are both more important and more right than those of other people persists throughout all the parts of the state I've been to. Marysville and Bellingam aren't exceptions. Nor is Port Angeles, nor even Forks (although that's more of a special sparkly vampire snowflake area).
Regarding your last statement, I'm not sure what you mean. No, I never attended Evergreen, and I'm not a fan of these antics... but I don't know what I would be a member of that that comes into consideration here... Can you clarify? I'm in Snohomish county. I agree that there's plenty of institutionalized and systemic racism, and it's definitely not limited to King & Pierce. Having lived in many parts of the country, I'm fairly certain it's everywhere. But the existence of that influence doesn't make this professor racist, nor does it make anything he said even remotely racist, nor does it justify or excuse any of the actions taken by the students of Evergreen. From the Tribune article:
Quote:
Also:
Quote:
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
20th June 2017, 03:56 PM | #375 |
Creativity Murderer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In 2.5 million spinning tons of metal, above Epsilion Eridani III
Posts: 7,958
|
Oh. Eh. After living in North Carolina I don't find that unusual in any regard.
Quote:
|
__________________
Don't mind me. |
|
21st June 2017, 12:01 PM | #376 | |||
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
Here is one of the students in defense of Bret Weinstein.
It is a bit wordy but he makes some interesting points
|
|||
25th June 2017, 01:27 AM | #377 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,918
|
That dude finna get beat down. You cant even be pro-Limp Bizkit at that place without getting harrassed and threatened.
Apparently there were some protests at Evergreen this past week, one guy got hit in the face with a can, pepper sprayed and tagged with silly string. The President of the University has finally grown some balls and asked for more police presence on campus. |
25th June 2017, 01:42 AM | #378 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,918
|
|
26th June 2017, 05:17 AM | #379 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,681
|
I googled list of demands Evergreen, no dice.
What do they want, and when do they want it? Hey hey, ho ho, these racist teachers have got to go! Hey hey, ho ho, these racist teachers have got to go! Hey hey, ho ho, these racist teachers have got to go! Hey hey, ho ho, these racist teachers have got to go! Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, rhyme. We are here to waste your time! Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, rhyme. We are here to waste your time! Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, rhyme. We are here to waste your time! Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, rhyme. We are here to waste your time! |
__________________
Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh! |
|
26th June 2017, 09:03 PM | #380 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
|
|
27th June 2017, 02:50 AM | #381 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 16,041
|
|
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
|
27th June 2017, 05:28 AM | #382 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
|
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division. |
|
27th June 2017, 07:09 PM | #383 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
|
27th June 2017, 07:24 PM | #384 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
|
28th June 2017, 04:06 AM | #385 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,918
|
|
28th June 2017, 04:21 AM | #386 |
Creativity Murderer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In 2.5 million spinning tons of metal, above Epsilion Eridani III
Posts: 7,958
|
Evergreen bluntly is a hippie college. Strangely, an intolerant one =\
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk |
__________________
Don't mind me. |
|
3rd July 2017, 02:05 PM | #387 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,311
|
there's more to this story
A former Evergreen administrator has written a relatively lengthy essay giving some background on the problems at Evergreen. The entire story is more complex than I had realized. "Given that one of the complaints raised by the protestors was that the police were targeting certain individuals, black trans students in particular, and given that the students accused of pushing the vice president and accosting the student in the cafeteria were black trans individuals, it seems reasonable to assume that the protests were, in part, designed to deflect unwanted attention for possibly inappropriate actions."
|
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
|
3rd July 2017, 04:06 PM | #388 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,415
|
Meaty read, gives a lot more context.
Quote:
Quote:
"Of course she claims not to be a witch, the Devil is making her lie to deceive us!" Along with drowning out any kind of substantive rebuttal with the equivalent of "don't listen! The devil will curse you as well if you hear her evil incantations!" The Orthodoxy of the Left scares me every bit as much as the Jesus Taliban. Remember, the Reign of Terror killed off more peasants and notable intellectuals -most of them staunch allies of the revolution- than any debauched monarch could have dreamed of getting away with. Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk |
3rd July 2017, 04:39 PM | #389 |
Creativity Murderer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In 2.5 million spinning tons of metal, above Epsilion Eridani III
Posts: 7,958
|
|
__________________
Don't mind me. |
|
3rd July 2017, 05:00 PM | #390 |
Creativity Murderer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In 2.5 million spinning tons of metal, above Epsilion Eridani III
Posts: 7,958
|
That is a really asinine comparison. In any case, I'm noticing, oddly, most things emitting are one sided. Figures.
It's accurate enough to argue that there are some people on one side that are REALLY BAD!!! and that the leadership of Evergreen is kinda.. well, terrible. But when I went looking for other stuff, well, you don't get much: https://www.insidehighered.com/views...troversial-and http://college.usatoday.com/2017/06/...wing-protests/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lame-liberals/ So uh.. yeah. This is more interesting, though: http://komonews.com/news/local/everg...be-disciplined It's kinda interesting.. I ... think. |
__________________
Don't mind me. |
|
3rd July 2017, 06:35 PM | #391 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,415
|
Not a lot of background at all in those articles. Some recaps (starting at the height of the controversy) and some sappy attempt at apologetics.
I'm rather solidly progressive myself. I have quite a depressingly large amount of my social circle that would act (and have acted) this way for daring to disagree with the "you can't be racist against whites/all white cis-het males can be assumed to be douchebags" type of thinking. Even getting up to leave quietly once they get going has drawn an accusation that I can't deal with it because "white people are so sensitive." In addition, "get over it" and "stop taking it so personally" are frequent refrains. Just my experience is all. While it may not be the Reign of Terror, it's a rather idiotic worldview that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of achieving widespread consensus. |
4th July 2017, 02:49 PM | #392 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,681
|
It's not the Great Terror, but it has political underpinnings that are outright dangerous. Either because they look like they could grow into Maoist hazings if not curbed, or because they will provoke a right-wing reaction that could be even worse.
Some students make statements that are right out of the black supremacist playbook ' We (blacks) were building cities when you (whites) were living in caves'. Check out this collage of their behaviour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoM7ycn2SRc&t=149s It's Lord Of The Flies, not the summer of love. |
__________________
Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh! |
|
12th December 2017, 09:02 AM | #393 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,415
|
Another Evergreen professor resigns following racial protests
Short version: lots of faculty resignations, numerous lawsuits, and tensions continue unresolved. This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be |
12th December 2017, 01:03 PM | #394 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
I'm still gonna summarize with: Evergreen has lost its mind.
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
12th December 2017, 08:09 PM | #395 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,311
|
Brett Weinstein and Rashida Love both left
I did not know that Professor Weinstein had resigned.
|
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
|
13th December 2017, 11:47 AM | #396 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
|
That article does a serious hamfist of casting the perpetrators as the victims. Lowe was one of the main racists ideologues inciting the racism and violence in that situation.
|
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|