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4th June 2017, 04:18 AM | #121 |
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4th June 2017, 05:31 AM | #122 |
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For some reason I can't picture bloviating gasbag Trump actually putting together a sentence long enough to warrant a comma, and not simply a string of half-connected ramblings joined together by ellipses. This was my quote our OO Stat Girl took issue with : "You're drawing an equivalence where it simply doesn't exist, and missing the actual problem in a rush to find a reason to excuse and coddle some privileged racist college students and their Oppression Olympics coaches." And you know, re-reading it I think I am a tad embarrassed. I think there ought to be a second comma after 'priviledge'. Now I feel like a total covfefe. But back to the actual topic, I finally found the called-in threat that shut the Safe Space down on Friday :
Quote:
Reads to me like either a genuine anti-PC nutjob, or plain troll. IOW, I'd thought that the threats were against Weinstein and/or his students. But no, sounds like we're back to business as usual, with frothing nutbars on both sides of a debate drowning out any attempts at reasoned discourse. I wonder if the caller might be excused as suffering from generational PTSD stemming from his ancestor's humiliation under the Treaty of Versailles ... |
4th June 2017, 05:49 AM | #123 |
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The "Why Evolution is True" blog is covering the latest events, including a 'statement of solidarity' issued by the faculty in support of the student protestors, lots of comments one of which links to the Joe Rogan video, as well as claims that protestors are harassing Weinstein's students.
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress...cist-students/ |
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4th June 2017, 06:32 AM | #124 |
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4th June 2017, 07:15 AM | #125 |
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Republicker is not a turn of phrase - it is a modified for purpose word, not a collection of words!! But keep on trying, it doesn't bother me and the reverse does seem to trouble you. YMMV. Good work on the exclamation points though!!!!! You found a place with heavy discounts on quantity too it seems!!!!!
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4th June 2017, 07:20 AM | #126 |
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4th June 2017, 07:21 AM | #127 |
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The statement by some of Evergreen's faculty members
The statement signed by some members of the faculty at Evergreen says in part, “We vehemently reject the claim that students have been violent simply because they have been loud and emphatic. There is a difference between exercising the right to freely voice an opinion and inciting violence—and that difference has nothing to do with volume or forcefulness."
And, “* Demonstrate accountability by pursuing a disciplinary investigation against Bret Weinstein according to guidelines in the Social Contract and Faculty Handbook. Weinstein has endangered faculty, staff, and students, making them targets of white supremacist backlash by promulgating misinformation in public emails, on national television, in news outlets, and on social media.” In my opinion FIRE’s article of June 2 made arguments that are relevant to both these passages. FIRE wrote, “We should note, given some of the demonstrations at Evergreen, that violent or coercive protest is not protected by the First Amendment. To the extent protesters use these tactics as part of their protest,*they are engaging in unlawful acts of civil disobedience.*You do not have a First Amendment right to barricade people in a building, for example, or to prevent someone from leaving a conversation, as*reports*suggest some protesters did to Weinstein when confronting him on May 23.” (highlighting mine) FIRE also wrote with respect to President Bridges’ promise to investigate any complaint of discrimination, “This expanded response is more problematic since,*as FIRE has noted before, an investigation (particularly a prolonged investigation) into protected speech when protected speech is all that is at issue is itself a free speech violation. It’s unclear whether Bridges is commenting on Weinstein’s remarks or other expression that might be of a similar nature. If he is, FIRE would have concerns given that Weinstein’s comments constitute clearly protected speech.” Not being a scholar of the laws and precedents surrounding freedom of expression, I cannot comment in depth. However, arguing that someone should be investigated for disseminating what is claimed to be misinformation is dubious at best, given that there are better ways to counteract it. As Archibald Cox said in 1971, “Over and over main the test of our dedication to liberty is our willingness to allow the expression of ideas we hate. If those ideas are lies, the remedy is more speech and more debate, so that men will learn the truth…” |
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4th June 2017, 07:43 AM | #128 |
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4th June 2017, 07:48 AM | #129 |
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There are a couple of interesting editorial pieces on this in the New York Times, the first is from June the 2nd:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/0...n-its-own.html However the June 3rd piece says it all:
Quote:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/0...een-state.html |
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4th June 2017, 09:53 AM | #130 |
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maybe not coercive, but not right, either
From the NYT link, "Weinstein, moreover, took quickly to the part of lightning rod. He has repeatedly characterized the Day of Absence as coercive, though it didn’t seem to be; Evergreen’s president, Bridges, told me in a telephone interview on Thursday that it flat-out wasn’t." I wouldn't use the word coercive, but I would describe some of the tactics as highly inappropriate. On YouTube there is a video of a professor berating someone else (he may also be a professor). Among other things she says to him that he should either go inside and listen to a particular presentation, or he should go home. At the end of her tirade, students start chanting.
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4th June 2017, 10:01 AM | #131 |
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4th June 2017, 10:07 AM | #132 |
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4th June 2017, 10:26 AM | #133 |
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A bad trend
At the National Review David French wrote, "Unless and until campus administrators have the courage to use the law to protect liberty, they’ll reward violence, increase campus volatility, and set the stage for a truly ugly (and perhaps deadly) incident." A commenter at the blog Simple Justice said something similar.
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4th June 2017, 10:34 AM | #134 |
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unsafe versus uncomfortable
FIRE's Greg Lukianoff was interviewed by NPR about a different incident, but I think his remarks are pertinent to this one. "I do get a little worried when I hear people talking about using the word unsafe to mean basically uncomfortable. I do think that leads to problems where people sort of conflate opinions with violence. And that's something that I've been increasingly seeing on campus. They don't make a major distinction between those two things...And I said, if you create a situation in which a professor - when you say you feel unsafe, they assume nine times out of 10 you mean something more like uncomfortable. That's a very dangerous situation for people who are genuinely unsafe. Certainly, like, when I was in college, if you said you were unsafe, you'd be like, oh, my God, we have to call the police. What do we need to do? Watering down terms that are so central to people's actual safety is dangerous."
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4th June 2017, 12:30 PM | #135 |
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4th June 2017, 08:46 PM | #136 |
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I have just found three videos on YouTube relating to this.
First Hour of the 23rd of May, 2017 meeting Interview with Prof Weinstein by KING5 News - Link to the final news report is in the description of this video. Evergreen President's statments to the Activists on the 26th of May, 2017 |
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5th June 2017, 04:20 AM | #137 |
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5th June 2017, 06:42 AM | #138 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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5th June 2017, 08:05 AM | #139 |
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5th June 2017, 08:24 AM | #140 |
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gone but not forgotten
A video showing the students confronting Professor Weinstein has been disappeared. Scott Greenfield wrote, "But embarrassing enough to demand that it be removed from the internet because they felt bullied by the reaction to what they did."
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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5th June 2017, 09:00 AM | #141 |
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5th June 2017, 09:02 AM | #142 |
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5th June 2017, 10:43 AM | #143 |
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5th June 2017, 11:33 AM | #144 |
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5th June 2017, 11:36 AM | #145 |
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What does that have to do with anything? Just because some other jerk does an ineffective jerky kind of a thing doesn't make it not an ineffective jerky kind of a thing . If you're taking your cues for behavior from Trump... you might want to step back and re-evaluate that approach.
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5th June 2017, 11:39 AM | #146 |
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5th June 2017, 11:40 AM | #147 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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5th June 2017, 11:44 AM | #148 |
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I agree with that.
For clarity, however, I'll expand and say that protest and opposition don't imply that you have any right to infringe upon their civil rights. Opposing them doesn't exclude them from the right to free speech, nor would it justify threats of violence or coercion. Not assuming you hold that view, just making my own clear. |
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5th June 2017, 11:46 AM | #149 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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5th June 2017, 11:50 AM | #150 |
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I hear what you're saying... but I think it's a little more complicated than that. If for no other reason than that we don't all have a common ideology, let alone common beliefs or goals.
Ideology and beliefs (not really a big difference between the two) are inextricably bound up with culture and tradition. And while it's not set in stone, there's a rather high (and obvious) correlation between ethnicity and culture. You can't protect a traditional cultural norm for a subgroup of people without experience conflict when it comes to belief. |
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5th June 2017, 11:52 AM | #151 |
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5th June 2017, 12:40 PM | #152 |
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5th June 2017, 07:29 PM | #153 |
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None of the three videos I linked to were that video, I expected it to go, the narrative being used by the students confronting Professor Weinstein, was that the film in question had been 'stolen' and then 'edited' to make them look bad.
From what I've heard checking the alt-right youtube channels is that the excerpts they were using came from an hour long video, there is also a comment in the article you linked to that the video probably has been saved offline and may come up again at a later date, as controversial things often do. Edit: Why Evolution is True has updated it's comments on the events at Evergreen and one of the commenters made the same point that the NYT Op-Ed did:
Quote:
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6th June 2017, 07:20 AM | #154 |
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First off, conservatives didn't suddenly become the protectors of free speech. That's been going on for a long time now. If that commenter hasn't heard of FIRE before, they haven't been paying attention to the issue. Second, Evergreen is more extreme than most other places, but the basic dynamic is quite common among liberal activists at colleges. Third, this commenter seems more interested in harm to the image of liberals than to the actual harm done at Evergreen. That's not a good sign.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th June 2017, 07:53 AM | #155 |
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6th June 2017, 07:55 AM | #156 |
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6th June 2017, 08:29 AM | #157 |
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Argh! Not 'liberals', leftists; hysterical, frothing, swivel eyed leftists.
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6th June 2017, 08:40 AM | #158 |
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6th June 2017, 08:48 AM | #159 |
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6th June 2017, 08:48 AM | #160 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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